Author Topic: Sold my ETH last night  (Read 7224 times)

Fru-Gal

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Sold my ETH last night
« on: August 05, 2021, 07:23:39 PM »
It's just so uncomfortably speculative. I guess too as I get closer to my FIRE number I think of doing things that are less risky, and I am an aggressive investor to begin with (99% stocks mainly in various index funds & growth pools). So I was up 18% last night and saw all the "pump it up" social media posts and thought, even though this was always money I was comfortable losing ($1500 put in bit by bit over the course of a year), I didn't want the stress. Plus I have read all the Vanguard and other arguments against crypto as an investment vehicle.

Basically crypto reminds me of Forex & gold. With the added bonus of excessive energy consumption.

But yeah could be my $1500 was gonna be worth $10k in a few years...

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2021, 03:05:24 AM »
Yep crypto isn't for everyone. 

ChpBstrd

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2021, 07:21:19 AM »
For a time in the early 2000's, people would share stories at parties about how they bought 2 shares of xyz.com in '97 and it went up 6000% and then they lost it all (parties were also a thing in the early 2000's).

Those people's kids have been buying SPACs and crypto.

Metalcat

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2021, 07:51:09 AM »
For a time in the early 2000's, people would share stories at parties about how they bought 2 shares of xyz.com in '97 and it went up 6000% and then they lost it all (parties were also a thing in the early 2000's).

Those people's kids have been buying SPACs and crypto.

Oh, this is so true it hurts.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2021, 09:42:21 AM »
People had parties?!

Yeah with stocks there is a potential underlying value. Obviously there is money to be made from crypto speculation, perhaps for a long time yet. But having had some "fun" meme stock experiences (I didn't risk much) now I am noticing the "pump-and-dump" patterns/language from small (possibly bot) and massive (billionaire) operators.

Once something becomes a meme, it's likely time to sell.

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2021, 09:58:09 AM »
I listened to this podcast the other night, where a crypto skeptic chats with a guy way into the nano cryptocurrency. I think it’s one of the most thorough explanations as to why cryptocurrency is mostly a bad idea. For the patient, I highly recommend checking it out: https://anchor.fm/when-the-music-stops/episodes/Nano--Digital-Cash-w-Patrick-Luberus-e15db6b

(Note: you can skip the first hour or so, unless you’re really interested in hearing about nano, specifically. The good stuff starts afterwards)

Fru-Gal

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2021, 01:21:26 PM »
Thx, I will check it out.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2021, 01:29:52 PM »
It's just so uncomfortably speculative. I guess too as I get closer to my FIRE number I think of doing things that are less risky, and I am an aggressive investor to begin with (99% stocks mainly in various index funds & growth pools). So I was up 18% last night and saw all the "pump it up" social media posts and thought, even though this was always money I was comfortable losing ($1500 put in bit by bit over the course of a year), I didn't want the stress. Plus I have read all the Vanguard and other arguments against crypto as an investment vehicle.

Basically crypto reminds me of Forex & gold. With the added bonus of excessive energy consumption.

But yeah could be my $1500 was gonna be worth $10k in a few years...

LOL:) - why would anyone sell now? ETH is spiking because they underwent a major upgrade the EIP-1559, the London fork.
A successful, extremely complicated code upgrade - years in the making.
A completely public upgrade that was streamed and celebrated around the globe.

Burning ETH in order to make it considerably more green and clean and wait for it - the transaction fees will go down. It will become deflationary with the next upgrade in December, slight deflationary improvements will show now.
Here you go
https://cointelegraph.com/news/ethereum-london-hard-fork-goes-live

Comparing ETH to a meme coin clearly shows the level of ignorance about crypto in this forum. Stop repeating FUD that media spouted months ago.
The excessive energy consumption will disappear entirely going forward.

The 18% increase is hardly enough to raise an eyebrow in the cryptoverse - surely that is one reason you bought that coin:). I actually thought the price might go down afterward "sell the rumor", but I am happy with the increase. Might hit $3K soon.

Media
You mean the same media who broadcasted incessantly about Jamie Dimond, CEO of JP Morgan publicly denouncing crypto for months on end.
Yeah well, yesterday in financial news JPMorgan announced a new crypto fund for their wealth management clients.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/jpmorgan-offering-crypto-funds-wealth-111456797.html?.tsrc=fin-srch

I don't even want to know the steep price of admission into those 'sanctioned' investments - plebs barred at the door.

From the article:
Quote
Multinational investment bank JPMorgan Chase has been offering several crypto funds to its clients over the past few weeks. This new offering has been taking place quietly in the background, without much pomp, and was revealed by sources who spoke to CNBC. Clients of its wealth management fund have been given access to six crypto funds over the last month, according to the report.

How come you are not calling out the banks for investing in crypto OTC and offering their funds to the wealthy?

Anyway, you are right of course - one shouldn't stay in any investment one is not comfortable with including one's fun money.
I am quite comfortable with my ETH. Fun to see it go from $1.8K to $2.8K - I bought the dip, but I'm definitely not selling.
Unless it goes ballistic at which time I'll take some profit.
I am perfectly content to hold for now or the long term, depending on what happens in the cryptoverse.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2021, 03:05:35 PM by Rosy »

frugledoc

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2021, 03:05:20 PM »
It's just so uncomfortably speculative. I guess too as I get closer to my FIRE number I think of doing things that are less risky, and I am an aggressive investor to begin with (99% stocks mainly in various index funds & growth pools). So I was up 18% last night and saw all the "pump it up" social media posts and thought, even though this was always money I was comfortable losing ($1500 put in bit by bit over the course of a year), I didn't want the stress. Plus I have read all the Vanguard and other arguments against crypto as an investment vehicle.

Basically crypto reminds me of Forex & gold. With the added bonus of excessive energy consumption.

But yeah could be my $1500 was gonna be worth $10k in a few years...

Good call. Crypto is nothing more than a casino so best to cash in your chips if you’re ahead then never go back.

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2021, 03:17:11 PM »

theolympians

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2021, 03:20:19 PM »
I have been a member of this site for some time now. I initially joined as a way to be encouraged using tried and true, slow and steady wins the race kind of stuff to financial freedom. Lately this site seems to be drifting to the get rich quick side of investing, options, margins, crypto and other complicated plans to get ahead.

As to this thread specifically, I haven't got the reason why there is crypto other than "people" say you can get rich "investing in it". The stock market isn't a casino, but crypto seems to be. I know people that "own" it. In the years since its been out I know ZERO people who have used it. It's almost like it really isn't meant to be currency...

To the OP, you made a profit. Count that as a win and move on. Forget the FOMO.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2021, 06:30:39 PM »
To @Rosy I saw your other posts and have done some reading about all the points you mention. Clearly it is a way to make money and like I said it seems most similar to Forex in that respect. Having done some research earlier this year I felt ETH was the most promising. The part I don't like is the excessive/confusing complication -- wallets, burning, staking. And the energy part of it. I was holding it on Robinhood which may not be optimal either. Clearly your level of knowledge and research may well bring you different results.

Oh and I actually didn't mean meme coins, I meant meme stocks. But the behaviors around either seem about the same.

Finally, it's a funny change I note in *myself*, where I suddenly feel a smidge risk-averse where before I was balls-to-wall, due to the fact that I have almost gotten myself to FIRE.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2021, 09:33:35 PM »
To @Rosy I saw your other posts and have done some reading about all the points you mention. Clearly it is a way to make money and like I said it seems most similar to Forex in that respect. Having done some research earlier this year I felt ETH was the most promising. The part I don't like is the excessive/confusing complication -- wallets, burning, staking. And the energy part of it. I was holding it on Robinhood which may not be optimal either. Clearly your level of knowledge and research may well bring you different results.

Oh and I actually didn't mean meme coins, I meant meme stocks. But the behaviors around either seem about the same.

Finally, it's a funny change I note in *myself*, where I suddenly feel a smidge risk-averse where before I was balls-to-wall, due to the fact that I have almost gotten myself to FIRE.

@Fru-Gal - I think you chose well with ETH. It did surpass $3K today so there is that, but it doesn't mean anything unless I cash out, deduct the fees and the 40% capital gains tax. 

Yes, I noticed your changed feelings in view of almost being fired but you know, I think those are simply stages we all go through on our personal financial journey.
Being so close to a long-term goal puts one on high alert.
You don't want to do anything that might remotely jeopardize your ultimate desired outcome.
I totally get that:). I swear I didn't breathe the month before I hit FI, I know the feeling.

***Edited to add that
the meme coins are a thing unto themselves (I wasn't actually thinking of you when I made my meme comment).
Anyone with a brain quickly moves away from that detrimental part of the cryptoverse.
They will be gone soon enough once the regulators swoop in.

I'm not an expert by a long shot. I'm retired, with plenty of time to enjoy risk analysis and researching projects/start-ups (that was my job in another life). 
I like the premise, the promise, and the potential of crypto/blockchain projects.
It became my pet project. Stage one of my plan worked. I am very close to walking away with a cool $100K - enough to give me butterflies:).

The US is coming for crypto hard so I'm mostly out for now. I guess I'll find my thrill with Vanguard Emerging Markets:).
It is time to walk off into the sunset, I got lucky - it took me 3.5 years to save up $100K and only 3.5 months for the next $100K.
Fru-Gal, good luck with your fire goal every eth helps:) rest assured you are not the only one putting crypto to good use.   
« Last Edit: August 08, 2021, 12:49:09 PM by Rosy »

hodedofome

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2021, 06:21:14 PM »
I’m not big into crypto, but from what I can see, Bitcoin is the replacement for gold, and Ethereum is going to basically be the operating system of financial transactions on the internet. I don’t own Bitcoin, but I don’t know if I can bring myself to sell Ether for years. It’s just too important.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #14 on: August 10, 2021, 09:10:03 AM »
The CEO of Binance just resigned… https://twitter.com/brianbrooksus/status/1423727097323802626?s=21

What do you think, @the_gastropod  ? He discovered something he doesn't want to be associated with?

Now there is this bit of news kept under wraps until yesterday - same MO, different exchange - Coinbase: 
Quote
Brett Redfearn, a former federal regulator who joined Coinbase Global Inc. earlier this year, has left the cryptocurrency exchange after about four months on the job

https://www.wsj.com/articles/coinbase-says-capital-markets-head-brett-redfearn-has-left-company-11628531644

Interesting - two high profile insider American regulators. One quit the world's largest exchange and the other quit the largest American exchange.
Both within 3-4 months on the job.

Like I keep saying Crypto is endlessly entertaining.
The most interesting thing that happened last week was an astounding arrest warrant execution by the US. Based on an arrest warrant issued only that same morning by the South African government.
A warrant for alleged invoice fraud in a South African firm called Cape Cookies - dating back to 2009 ...

Which of course has absolutely nothing to do with Monero - the privacy coin whose code the US has been dying to crack. Unlike bitcoin, this coin is still private but not for sale on American sanctioned exchanges any longer. Globally it is still openly available.
 
The current "Bounty" to crack the code used on the Monero blockchain offered by the US is $625,000 - officially anyway.
Mr. Spagni - "Fluffy Pony":) former lead maintainer at Monero was arrested in his private airplane.
https://cryptobriefing.com/monero-developer-comments-on-fluffypony-arrest/

We'll see what happens this week. Bitcoin is waffling between $45K and $46K.
Interesting times we live in. House of Cards all around us.
Someone pulled four BILLION out of gold - perhaps they like the new digital gold better?

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2021, 09:25:01 AM »

What do you think, @the_gastropod  ? He discovered something he doesn't want to be associated with?

Yea. Something like that, anyway. Binance has had some odd CEO stories, from Catherine Coley just suddenly vanishing last year, to this guy—Brian Brooks—quitting just a few months into the job. Binance and Tether have a very bizarre relationship, and I suspect they're mutually involved in some substantial financial fraud. My guess, at a minimum, is much of the "corporate paper" Tether holds as backing for their tether stablecoins was sold by Binance itself in exchange for tethers.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2021, 09:52:00 AM by the_gastropod »

CrankAddict

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2021, 05:58:41 PM »
@Fru-Gal - I think you chose well with ETH. It did surpass $3K today so there is that, but it doesn't mean anything unless I cash out, deduct the fees and the 40% capital gains tax.

But passing $3000 today isn't really that great considering it passed $4000 in May, right?  Crypto as a field likely has some kind of long term future but the currently traded currencies are so obviously speculative.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2021, 06:02:02 PM by CrankAddict »

RobertFromTX

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2021, 06:32:47 AM »
I listened to this podcast the other night, where a crypto skeptic chats with a guy way into the nano cryptocurrency. I think it’s one of the most thorough explanations as to why cryptocurrency is mostly a bad idea. For the patient, I highly recommend checking it out: https://anchor.fm/when-the-music-stops/episodes/Nano--Digital-Cash-w-Patrick-Luberus-e15db6b

(Note: you can skip the first hour or so, unless you’re really interested in hearing about nano, specifically. The good stuff starts afterwards)

Great podcast episode! I have degrees in both Economics and Computer Science, so I've spent a lot of time thinking about crypto over the years. His thoughts about and arguments against crypto are exactly what my conclusions have been except he has much better speaking skills than me.  I used bitcoin once back in 2010, but have never speculated in it.

Dicey

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2021, 07:43:29 AM »
I have been a member of this site for some time now. I initially joined as a way to be encouraged using tried and true, slow and steady wins the race kind of stuff to financial freedom. Lately this site seems to be drifting to the get rich quick side of investing, options, margins, crypto and other complicated plans to get ahead.

As to this thread specifically, I haven't got the reason why there is crypto other than "people" say you can get rich "investing in it". The stock market isn't a casino, but crypto seems to be. I know people that "own" it. In the years since its been out I know ZERO people who have used it. It's almost like it really isn't meant to be currency...

To the OP, you made a profit. Count that as a win and move on. Forget the FOMO.
You have a choice, every time you select a thread to read. Just don't read the stuff that doesn't interest you. There's plenty of good "tried and true" content here. However, "slow and steady" has never really been what the whole concept of FIRE is about...

FWIW, I'm FIRE and have ZERO interest in crypto. It's not going to make a hill of beans difference in my life, even if it explodes. That doesn't mean this forum has lost its relevance.

And I 100% agree with you on that last sentence. No FOMO for me.

bacchi

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2021, 08:00:26 AM »
I have been a member of this site for some time now. I initially joined as a way to be encouraged using tried and true, slow and steady wins the race kind of stuff to financial freedom. Lately this site seems to be drifting to the get rich quick side of investing, options, margins, crypto and other complicated plans to get ahead.

As to this thread specifically, I haven't got the reason why there is crypto other than "people" say you can get rich "investing in it". The stock market isn't a casino, but crypto seems to be. I know people that "own" it. In the years since its been out I know ZERO people who have used it. It's almost like it really isn't meant to be currency...

To the OP, you made a profit. Count that as a win and move on. Forget the FOMO.
You have a choice, every time you select a thread to read. Just don't read the stuff that doesn't interest you. There's plenty of good "tried and true" content here. However, "slow and steady" has never really been what the whole concept of FIRE is about...

FWIW, I'm FIRE and have ZERO interest in crypto. It's not going to make a hill of beans difference in my life, even if it explodes. That doesn't mean this forum has lost its relevance.

And I 100% agree with you on that last sentence. No FOMO for me.

It's also a symptom of a quickly rising market. The FOMO market adherents will disappear when the market eventually crumbles.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2021, 11:34:59 AM »
@Fru-Gal - I think you chose well with ETH. It did surpass $3K today so there is that, but it doesn't mean anything unless I cash out, deduct the fees and the 40% capital gains tax.

But passing $3000 today isn't really that great considering it passed $4000 in May, right?  Crypto as a field likely has some kind of long term future but the currently traded currencies are so obviously speculative.

The May pricing or for that matter all current pricing is irrelevant since I'm simply betting on the future of crypto as a new digital asset.
ETH is a coin that will survive the ups and downs of the market alongside bitcoin.

I plan on holding BTC and ETH until the next crypto cycle (4yrs). I bought the ETH dip at $1800 up to $2,500 not $4000, although I DCA'd this month even at $3K. I see it as a long-term speculative investment with the caveat that BTC and ETH are the safe bets of the crypto world.

The Nano coin podcast mentioned is already on my don't buy list so thankfully I spared myself three hours of this economic expert's podcast. This coin is potential trouble. Nano doesn't fit my risk tolerance or my strategy and never will.

Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency. 

CrankAddict

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2021, 12:03:04 PM »
Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

I always see this sentiment expressed in the die hard crypto circles.  "Hey man, I can't afford to be in fiat while I sleep, I'd be losing money!!".  We can have a separate argument about USD devaluation and inflation, but honestly, when is the last time the US dollar lost half its value in a couple weeks?  I just can't see the argument that you can't convert to dollars because it represents some unacceptable risk when clearly crypto's risk and potential for depreciation is much greater.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2021, 01:10:28 PM »
Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

I always see this sentiment expressed in the die hard crypto circles.  "Hey man, I can't afford to be in fiat while I sleep, I'd be losing money!!".  We can have a separate argument about USD devaluation and inflation, but honestly, when is the last time the US dollar lost half its value in a couple weeks?  I just can't see the argument that you can't convert to dollars because it represents some unacceptable risk when clearly crypto's risk and potential for depreciation is much greater.

And if the USD is rapidly depreciating, wouldn't some futures contracts on commodities or maybe a forex trade be the way to go?

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2021, 01:11:36 PM »
I am building a 5% BTC and ETH portfolio currently at 500/week and will stop accumulating when I retire.  I will rebalance it every year if it rises.  I will ignore it if it falls. 

I used to laugh about crypto and people who buy it but it keeps hanging around.  I have a feeling that there's something to it and that it may be REALLY big someday.  If I'm wrong, then I'll lose 5% of my portfolio.  That's a risk I'm willing to take over the long term. 

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2021, 02:16:36 PM »
The Nano coin podcast mentioned is already on my don't buy list so thankfully I spared myself three hours of this economic expert's podcast. This coin is potential trouble. Nano doesn't fit my risk tolerance or my strategy and never will.

You may still be uninterested in listening, but the second half of the podcast is not really about Nano at all—it's about cryptocurrencies in general. They talk through some basic economics and some basic computer science to—I think—convincingly refute many of the standard crypto claims.

Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

This is a pretty common argument in crypto land. But it doesn't make much sense if you think about it. USD is a currency. The properties of ETH/BTC that you're using to make this argument—that they've historically increased (dramatically) in value—definitionally make them not a currency. This is like saying you prefer above-ground swimming pools to coffee beans, because you can swim in them. That's fine, but... it's kind of a bizarre argument.

Other vehicles exist if wealth preservation is what you're after—and they have lots of really nice properties. Bonds, stocks, TIPS, CD's, etc. are probably better comparisons, depending on what your actual argument is: number go up? Inflation hedge? ???

I am building a 5% BTC and ETH portfolio currently at 500/week and will stop accumulating when I retire.  I will rebalance it every year if it rises.  I will ignore it if it falls. 

I used to laugh about crypto and people who buy it but it keeps hanging around.  I have a feeling that there's something to it and that it may be REALLY big someday.  If I'm wrong, then I'll lose 5% of my portfolio.  That's a risk I'm willing to take over the long term. 

What frustrates me about this mindset is that you seem to suggest that "Might as well play the game! It might just work!". The issue here is cryptocurrencies are, by definition, negative-sum games. You only profit when someone else loses. And money is constantly sucked out of the game completely by literal and deliberate energy waste. By "investing" in these scams, you're perpetuating harm. Best case scenario, your harm will be limited to: the planet and other "greater fool" investors. Likelier scenario, you'll be that greater fool, and lose that 5% you're willing to risk in the process.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2021, 02:33:54 PM by the_gastropod »

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2021, 02:57:49 PM »
I have been a member of this site for some time now. I initially joined as a way to be encouraged using tried and true, slow and steady wins the race kind of stuff to financial freedom. Lately this site seems to be drifting to the get rich quick side of investing, options, margins, crypto and other complicated plans to get ahead.

As to this thread specifically, I haven't got the reason why there is crypto other than "people" say you can get rich "investing in it". The stock market isn't a casino, but crypto seems to be. I know people that "own" it. In the years since its been out I know ZERO people who have used it. It's almost like it really isn't meant to be currency...

To the OP, you made a profit. Count that as a win and move on. Forget the FOMO.

I meant to ignore your comment, but I think it is time to voice my opinion about crypto and how it is treated on this forum one last time.
@theolympians
- if you think that people who invest in crypto are only in that space to get rich quickly you are indeed clueless. You'd be surprised how many people depend on the monthly passive income of their "coin investments" whether it is college students paying their tuition or an aunt or grandma who subsidize their SS, accounts set up with the help of their grandkid or techie nephew.
People who expound the virtues of the tried and true have access to the tried and true - many people do not.

There are more people paying off their student loan debt with crypto than there are clueless idiots who get "rekt" trying to 100X some trading scheme.

As far as some of the members of this forum, too many have relentlessly bashed the crypto enthusiasts and declared them all speculative fools one too many times. The occasional brave soul who wants to discuss crypto is quickly steamrolled in any new thread, buried under tulip craze comments. 

You speculate on crypto's demise just like I speculate on the future of crypto.

It is so blatantly obvious that even I, a long-time MMMr have trouble accepting that usually intelligent, fair and level-headed people make it a sport to spit on crypto. I don't know where crypto is going any more than anyone else in the world but literally preventing any civil discussion about crypto investments is going too far.

Perhaps it is I who should leave this space.
You are welcome to the tried and true crowd, it is a good lot but when it becomes fanatically so - then I'm out.
People change and forums change. 
Peace out.

@AccidentalMiser - Just for fun - here is a "How to Retire by 2030" Crypto Investment Portfolio that is set up for $500 a week by Invest Answer on youtube.
He worked out several versions of it with different savings amounts, incl a spreadsheet for Australia, Portugal, or the Cayman Islands. I never knew the Cayman Islands were so expensive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgH3_3UQRe8&t=970s

The one I vaguely follow is a different one. He also started a $50K portfolio to reach one million by 2030. The live version was invested on 6-22-21 for all to see and is regularly updated. I'm already retired but this one fit so well with my own strategy I simply tweaked it. We'll see how it all goes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ToydGBBoLQ&t=430s

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #26 on: August 12, 2021, 03:11:24 PM »
I've said it before but it's just not worth trying to discuss crypto investments on this forum.  The people here who have never invested in it know everything about it already apparently.

mjr

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #27 on: August 12, 2021, 04:10:47 PM »
literally preventing any civil discussion about crypto investments is going too far

Huh ?  Discussion is not prevented in any way and the conversation has been entirely civil.

thesis

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #28 on: August 12, 2021, 04:17:25 PM »
Cryptocurrency is a difficult topic, simply because it is so polarized. Whereas I've found some incredibly intellectual and deep discussions about spending, money, happiness, and other finance topics, I've really never read a discussion on crypto, either for or against, that left me with that "Aha!" feeling I've gotten from other subjects. There always seems to be something missing from both sides, and this kind of fascinates me. Call me a positivist, but I can't help but think those meaty bits are there somewhere. Somewhere.

But that's all very subjective.

The one thing I have not appreciated from what I've seen of people who are very pro-crypto is the increasing amount of intellectualized (not necessary intellectual) arguments for it, the key buzzword being "fiat," and many who believe in its, I don't know, ultimate demise? I know that's not everyone. And I see a lot of artificial FOMO, where big proponents are no longer just saying you are missing an opportunity if you don't invest, but that crypto is the one and only future, buy now, now, NOW! Again, not everybody. But the presence of these people, in itself, doesn't say anything about the nature of crypo, only that there are a lot of blowhards promoting it.

For me, the jury is still out, so I'd like to listen to that podcast. I've otherwise not had a strong desire to buy any.

AccidentalMiser

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #29 on: August 12, 2021, 06:58:05 PM »
@AccidentalMiser - Just for fun - here is a "How to Retire by 2030" Crypto Investment Portfolio that is set up for $500 a week by Invest Answer on youtube.
He worked out several versions of it with different savings amounts, incl a spreadsheet for Australia, Portugal, or the Cayman Islands. I never knew the Cayman Islands were so expensive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgH3_3UQRe8&t=970s

Thanks, @Rosy .

I will take a look.  I want to clarify where crypto fits into my overall investing plan.  It's a tiny little piece of it.  I live on about 30% of my income and have maxed out every tax-advantaged account and still have some cash to stuff somewhere prior to retirement in a couple of years. 

I would NEVER recommend crypto to anyone with less that a million dollar portfolio and I would never recommend it to someone who doesn't understand  it's risks and pitfalls.  In short, I would never recommend it to anyone but the most savvy investor who already has all the bases covered and is sophisticated and liquid enough to handle the drawdowns without losing a minute's sleep.

It's what I do instead of buying collectible baseball cards or guitars.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #30 on: August 12, 2021, 07:22:22 PM »
Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

I always see this sentiment expressed in the die hard crypto circles.  "Hey man, I can't afford to be in fiat while I sleep, I'd be losing money!!".  We can have a separate argument about USD devaluation and inflation, but honestly, when is the last time the US dollar lost half its value in a couple weeks?  I just can't see the argument that you can't convert to dollars because it represents some unacceptable risk when clearly crypto's risk and potential for depreciation is much greater.

That's because you are blinded by the fact that bitcoin is volatile. 
 
The one and only aspect that matters at the end:
Year after year - crypto appreciates in value - significantly. It quadrupled in 2020.
The best performing asset in the last ten years, it outperformed the S&P 500 and it outperformed gold.
Check the charts - the numbers don't lie.

Also, there is a reasonable chance that if I were to sell today I would never be able to buy back in at the price I did.

CrankAddict

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #31 on: August 12, 2021, 08:38:03 PM »
Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

I always see this sentiment expressed in the die hard crypto circles.  "Hey man, I can't afford to be in fiat while I sleep, I'd be losing money!!".  We can have a separate argument about USD devaluation and inflation, but honestly, when is the last time the US dollar lost half its value in a couple weeks?  I just can't see the argument that you can't convert to dollars because it represents some unacceptable risk when clearly crypto's risk and potential for depreciation is much greater.

That's because you are blinded by the fact that bitcoin is volatile. 
 
The one and only aspect that matters at the end:
Year after year - crypto appreciates in value - significantly. It quadrupled in 2020.
The best performing asset in the last ten years, it outperformed the S&P 500 and it outperformed gold.
Check the charts - the numbers don't lie.

Also, there is a reasonable chance that if I were to sell today I would never be able to buy back in at the price I did.
So if that's all just a black and white fact why did you refer to it as speculative earlier?  Not sure I'm the one with the blind spot here.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk


the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #32 on: August 12, 2021, 08:39:34 PM »
Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

I always see this sentiment expressed in the die hard crypto circles.  "Hey man, I can't afford to be in fiat while I sleep, I'd be losing money!!".  We can have a separate argument about USD devaluation and inflation, but honestly, when is the last time the US dollar lost half its value in a couple weeks?  I just can't see the argument that you can't convert to dollars because it represents some unacceptable risk when clearly crypto's risk and potential for depreciation is much greater.

That's because you are blinded by the fact that bitcoin is volatile. 
 
The one and only aspect that matters at the end:
Year after year - crypto appreciates in value - significantly. It quadrupled in 2020.
The best performing asset in the last ten years, it outperformed the S&P 500 and it outperformed gold.
Check the charts - the numbers don't lie.

Also, there is a reasonable chance that if I were to sell today I would never be able to buy back in at the price I did.

Why do you think it does that? Is it sustainable? How?

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #33 on: August 12, 2021, 10:31:24 PM »
Right now, there is no point in cashing out of ETH or BTC because the US dollar is a rapidly depreciating currency.

I always see this sentiment expressed in the die hard crypto circles.  "Hey man, I can't afford to be in fiat while I sleep, I'd be losing money!!".  We can have a separate argument about USD devaluation and inflation, but honestly, when is the last time the US dollar lost half its value in a couple weeks?  I just can't see the argument that you can't convert to dollars because it represents some unacceptable risk when clearly crypto's risk and potential for depreciation is much greater.

That's because you are blinded by the fact that bitcoin is volatile. 
 
The one and only aspect that matters at the end:
Year after year - crypto appreciates in value - significantly. It quadrupled in 2020.
The best performing asset in the last ten years, it outperformed the S&P 500 and it outperformed gold.
Check the charts - the numbers don't lie.

Also, there is a reasonable chance that if I were to sell today I would never be able to buy back in at the price I did.
So if that's all just a black and white fact why did you refer to it as speculative earlier?  Not sure I'm the one with the blind spot here.

Sent from my SM-G960U1 using Tapatalk

The stock market is speculative too, that's the whole point of buying it.  We're speculating that it will go up in value over time.

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2021, 04:50:44 AM »
The stock market is speculative too, that's the whole point of buying it.  We're speculating that it will go up in value over time.

This is some kinda classic “BOTH SIDES”ism. Yes, stubbing one’s toe and catastrophically losing a limb are injuries, but…

Stocks and bonds have cash flow. That means they have an underlying value and can be priced somewhat. While there is some degree of speculation, they’re generally substantially less volatile than cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies do not generate cash flow. That means they are purely speculative. Their volatility is substantial as a result.

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2021, 06:47:21 AM »
The stock market is speculative too, that's the whole point of buying it.  We're speculating that it will go up in value over time.

This is some kinda classic “BOTH SIDES”ism. Yes, stubbing one’s toe and catastrophically losing a limb are injuries, but…

Stocks and bonds have cash flow. That means they have an underlying value and can be priced somewhat. While there is some degree of speculation, they’re generally substantially less volatile than cryptocurrencies. Cryptocurrencies do not generate cash flow. That means they are purely speculative. Their volatility is substantial as a result.

What do you mean?  Crypto generates plenty of cash flow if you want it too.  I pay all my bills and buy stocks with my crypto yield.

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2021, 06:54:44 AM »
Yea? Please share the details. One of two things is happening, I’m guessing:
1. It’s a naked Ponzi scheme a la Bitconnect, BlockFi, etc.
2. You’re doing personal loans

In neither case is the asset itself (the cryptocurrency) generating cash flow. USD doesn’t generate cash flow because I can sign up for Lending Club.

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2021, 07:08:38 AM »
Yea? Please share the details. One of two things is happening, I’m guessing:
1. It’s a naked Ponzi scheme a la Bitconnect, BlockFi, etc.
2. You’re doing personal loans

In neither case is the asset itself (the cryptocurrency) generating cash flow. USD doesn’t generate cash flow because I can sign up for Lending Club.

maybe just type 'defi yield' or similar into youtube and watch one of the million videos about the various ways it can be done.  You do realise that just because you haven't personally witnessed something it doesn't mean it doesn't exist, right?  Don't you think the people that actually use crypto and defi might know a little bit more about it than you?
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 07:13:39 AM by Juan Ponce de León »

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2021, 07:13:39 AM »
Aka you’re doing lending, exactly as I stated. Clearly I know nothing!

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2021, 07:19:32 AM »
Aka you’re doing lending, exactly as I stated. Clearly I know nothing!

Rightio champ.  I'll just get back to my 'lending' whatever that is LMAO.

Nick_Miller

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2021, 07:29:41 AM »
I hear you, OP. I did the same thing recently.

I found it was taking up WAY too much of my bandwidth. Between the volatility and the never-ending trading with no breaks even on weekends, it burrowed into my head and tried to form some sort of "crypto" section of my brainbox. It was like, if I don't check things constantly, I could miss a 10% dip/rocket. It was way too much. Who has time for that?

SpaceCow

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2021, 11:11:17 AM »
I have about 22 ETH, about 70k USD worth at current prices. I put in about 3k during a big dip a few years ago. I don't think that ETH is a meme coin, but I would agree that the returns that I've made are entirely due to dumb luck. I'm relying on dumb luck to tell me when to sell. I'm more in it for the longer haul, though, so I'm not hoping to sell any time soon.

CrankAddict

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #42 on: August 13, 2021, 11:28:24 AM »
Don't you think the people that actually use crypto and defi might know a little bit more about it than you?

Sounds reasonable.

I'll just get back to my 'lending' whatever that is LMAO.

Or maybe not.

This is right out of the coindesk FAQ for "How do I make money with DeFi?"

Quote
Using Ethereum-based lending apps, as mentioned above, users can generate “passive income” by loaning out their money and generating interest from the loans.

So maybe you are not lending and you are instead doing something more exotic like yield farming, but either way to say "whatever lending is" is not real confidence inspiring that you are really up on the ins and outs of what is happening inside of your totally reliable, no more speculative than bonds, crypto cash cow.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #43 on: August 13, 2021, 11:46:17 AM »
Aka you’re doing lending, exactly as I stated. Clearly I know nothing!

It appears so.
YIELD - you don't have to lend to earn, you can stake instead like ADA, the coin on the Cardano Network. 
...btw, Cardano just became the world's largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization - $65 Billion
FORBES
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2021/08/13/cardano-becomes-third-largest-cryptocurrency-overtaking-binance-coin-and-tether/?sh=93814e06f520

Here is just one way/place to stake and earn on the Cardano Network (ADA)  at the
The University of Wyoming
https://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2021/06/uw-leads-the-pack-in-cryptocurrency.html

Quote
The UW Department of Accounting and Finance is a partner in this success. While the lab established the Cardano staking node, the College of Business portfolio management class provided the initial pledge of capital and will use analytics on the stake pool parameters to try to optimize returns.

Cardano was recently listed on the exchange in Japan - not an easy feat.
Here in the US, Cardano is part of the Gray Scale Fund investments.

Quote
Staking is where users agree to pledge money to a network in order to help it validate transactions. Lending is where users agree to loan their cryptocurrencies in return for interest payments. Both concepts allow users to earn tokens but the risks and rewards are different.

I am not an expert but there are many other solid coins you can choose to stake. 
Like Polkadot, the DOT coin is a good coin and offers good staking opportunities.
Like ETH, which has different requirements, 32 ETH minimum required and a long-term rigid lock-up.

None of this involves lending.
How to stake: I recommend checking out the staking videos by the CoinBureau on youtube or just google it.
DYOR there are fees, rules, minimums, lots of tricks to improve your return or get extra rewards.

There is no reason not to earn an extra 6% to 12% if you already own the coin anyway and don't plan to trade or sell.
Both Kraken and Coinbase exchange make it even easier for you. They offer staking for a few select coins, buy and stake.
Optimized returns are a good thing especially if they pay for your monthly expenses or pay for your tuition or pay off your student debt.

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #44 on: August 13, 2021, 04:14:56 PM »
Aka you’re doing lending, exactly as I stated. Clearly I know nothing!

It appears so.
YIELD - you don't have to lend to earn, you can stake instead like ADA, the coin on the Cardano Network. 
...btw, Cardano just became the world's largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization - $65 Billion
FORBES
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2021/08/13/cardano-becomes-third-largest-cryptocurrency-overtaking-binance-coin-and-tether/?sh=93814e06f520

Here is just one way/place to stake and earn on the Cardano Network (ADA)  at the
The University of Wyoming
https://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2021/06/uw-leads-the-pack-in-cryptocurrency.html

Quote
The UW Department of Accounting and Finance is a partner in this success. While the lab established the Cardano staking node, the College of Business portfolio management class provided the initial pledge of capital and will use analytics on the stake pool parameters to try to optimize returns.

Cardano was recently listed on the exchange in Japan - not an easy feat.
Here in the US, Cardano is part of the Gray Scale Fund investments.

Quote
Staking is where users agree to pledge money to a network in order to help it validate transactions. Lending is where users agree to loan their cryptocurrencies in return for interest payments. Both concepts allow users to earn tokens but the risks and rewards are different.

I am not an expert but there are many other solid coins you can choose to stake. 
Like Polkadot, the DOT coin is a good coin and offers good staking opportunities.
Like ETH, which has different requirements, 32 ETH minimum required and a long-term rigid lock-up.

None of this involves lending.
How to stake: I recommend checking out the staking videos by the CoinBureau on youtube or just google it.
DYOR there are fees, rules, minimums, lots of tricks to improve your return or get extra rewards.

There is no reason not to earn an extra 6% to 12% if you already own the coin anyway and don't plan to trade or sell.
Both Kraken and Coinbase exchange make it even easier for you. They offer staking for a few select coins, buy and stake.
Optimized returns are a good thing especially if they pay for your monthly expenses or pay for your tuition or pay off your student debt.

First, I just want to say thank you for having a real discussion about this stuff. It’s refreshing to get a legit response with details that make sense. Thank you!

Staking is definitely different from personal loans. But as I understand it, you are still lending your tokens to someone else—in this case, an entity performing PoS. So I think my point stands in that, as a “asset”, cryptocurrencies do not provide cash flow. Is that fair?

With respect to staking, there is considerable risk in doing this, no? Risk of slashing, risk of price volatility, and risk of entrusting an exchange with your coins—obviating the entire supposed security benefits of cryptocurrencies.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2021, 04:37:07 PM by the_gastropod »

Juan Ponce de León

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #45 on: August 13, 2021, 05:49:47 PM »
Don't you think the people that actually use crypto and defi might know a little bit more about it than you?

Sounds reasonable.

I'll just get back to my 'lending' whatever that is LMAO.

Or maybe not.

This is right out of the coindesk FAQ for "How do I make money with DeFi?"

Quote
Using Ethereum-based lending apps, as mentioned above, users can generate “passive income” by loaning out their money and generating interest from the loans.

So maybe you are not lending and you are instead doing something more exotic like yield farming, but either way to say "whatever lending is" is not real confidence inspiring that you are really up on the ins and outs of what is happening inside of your totally reliable, no more speculative than bonds, crypto cash cow.

You're absolutely right, I have no idea what I'm doing.  None.

CrankAddict

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2021, 09:10:59 AM »
It appears so.
YIELD - you don't have to lend to earn, you can stake instead like ADA, the coin on the Cardano Network. 
...btw, Cardano just became the world's largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization - $65 Billion
FORBES
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2021/08/13/cardano-becomes-third-largest-cryptocurrency-overtaking-binance-coin-and-tether/?sh=93814e06f520

Here is just one way/place to stake and earn on the Cardano Network (ADA)  at the
The University of Wyoming
https://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2021/06/uw-leads-the-pack-in-cryptocurrency.html

Quote
The UW Department of Accounting and Finance is a partner in this success. While the lab established the Cardano staking node, the College of Business portfolio management class provided the initial pledge of capital and will use analytics on the stake pool parameters to try to optimize returns.

Cardano was recently listed on the exchange in Japan - not an easy feat.
Here in the US, Cardano is part of the Gray Scale Fund investments.

Quote
Staking is where users agree to pledge money to a network in order to help it validate transactions. Lending is where users agree to loan their cryptocurrencies in return for interest payments. Both concepts allow users to earn tokens but the risks and rewards are different.

I am not an expert but there are many other solid coins you can choose to stake. 
Like Polkadot, the DOT coin is a good coin and offers good staking opportunities.
Like ETH, which has different requirements, 32 ETH minimum required and a long-term rigid lock-up.

None of this involves lending.
How to stake: I recommend checking out the staking videos by the CoinBureau on youtube or just google it.
DYOR there are fees, rules, minimums, lots of tricks to improve your return or get extra rewards.

There is no reason not to earn an extra 6% to 12% if you already own the coin anyway and don't plan to trade or sell.
Both Kraken and Coinbase exchange make it even easier for you. They offer staking for a few select coins, buy and stake.
Optimized returns are a good thing especially if they pay for your monthly expenses or pay for your tuition or pay off your student debt.

Can you explain a scenario where it makes sense that these rates would still be achievable in 5 years or 10 years?  The last discussion on here about high return crypto savings accounts concluded with the notion that we are sitting at a (temporary) point in time where due to regulatory practices "the big boys" aren't always able to trade crypto the way they'd like and therefore there is a premium to be paid for various lending strategies.  As well, earning 10% through staking suggests a very high level of inefficiency in the transaction processing at this time.  In the coming years, crypto's "back end" will either have to dramatically improve its efficiency (thus reducing payouts to miners, stakers, etc) or it will simply fail to scale.  And IF there is some way in which these conditions would persist, surely the Wall Street banks and governmental reserves will simply move into this space, vastly out-gunning the individual investor and dropping the premiums paid as a result.  It just seems unimaginable that Joe Blow will be able to make 10% on his $1000 "forever" while Citibank and the Fed are getting a fraction of that for their billions.

Rosy

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2021, 12:09:01 PM »
Quote from gastro_pod
Quote
Staking is definitely different from personal loans. But as I understand it, you are still lending your tokens to someone else—in this case, an entity performing PoS. So I think my point stands in that, as a “asset”, cryptocurrencies do not provide cash flow. Is that fair?

With respect to staking, there is considerable risk in doing this, no? Risk of slashing, risk of price volatility, and risk of entrusting an exchange with your coins—obviating the entire supposed security benefits of cryptocurrencies.

You made me laugh:). The entire world knows crypto is risky and still speculative.
OK, to your questions above - without turning this into part 2 of Crypto staking 101 - the answer is I can make all of that go away for certain coins.

1. If you know anything about crypto you know that there are private wallets - I can use my wallet to stake, the coins never leave my wallet.
2. What price volatility? You stake because you already know that you want to hold this coin. Prices go up too, not just down while you stake, right?
3. Slashing - my, my you do know how to poke don't you:). I had to look up that term because I had forgotten what it means, but yes I am fully aware of that risk because goodness gracious I do my best to understand the risk potential of everything I do in crypto.
It is zero risk with ADA in my opinion, is a rare occurrence in general and I feel confident that the coins/pools I choose are safe.
So there you go - key is to be selective in choosing your coin and your staking pool.

May I ask what risk level you would assign to the staking pool for Ada at the University of Wyoming?
I say it is zero and I bet their smart college students optimize the hell out of the returns:).

Not to mention that in the case of Ada which has the most decentralized network of any coin has a truly dedicated community behind it that has been staking for years - cheering on the slow, rigorous process of a promising but very long term project - would hunt down and scalp any would-be slasher or hacker within the hour. 
Charles Hoskinson the founder was one of the originals along with Vitalik Buterin who each built their own network. ETH - Vitalik.

My personal take on staking altcoins
In general - probably not, too much trouble and not enough reward for the potential exposure to risk. This may change as interoperability, security, and ease of transactions overall continue to improve. 
For now, I see no point in risking my coins for 6% or entertain the idea of staking Kava at 20% on Kraken.
The better the coin the lower the return - rewards become diluted by too many participants... TMI, sorry.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2021, 12:56:54 PM »
'spose I should throw my hat in the ring.  Once again, I'm a heretic it seems. 

I stayed out of crypto until September of 2020.  Because I didn't understand it.  Or rather I understood it wrong.  I did Economics for my undergrad and using various classical schools of thought and most modern schools of thought, crypto is a weird bunny that doesn't make a whole lot of conventional sense.  I've been learning about some the most recent economic schools of thought and have finally wrapped my head around why so much of the classical thinking is deeply flawed.  That led to re-evaluate the case for crypto.

For a long time I have had a trivial exposure to gold and silver numismatic coins.  They traded basically sideways for more than a decade.  Dead money.  I decided to sell my coins ($4,430) in proceeds and deploy that 60/40 to BTC/ETH.  My total crypto holdings after less than a year are now over $20,000.  Some of that is the 3-10 bucks in alt coin you can pick up for watching short promotional videos for alt-coins at Coinbase.

I see BTC as the reserve coin of the crypto space whose only real selling point is the first mover advantage.  I see ETH as the foundation of many things in decentralized finance in the near and long term future.

My take - a large allocation is probably wrong for an index investor.  A trivial allocation is appropriate for everyone. Not so much you are kneecapped if it tanks, but enough that you materially participate if it goes to the moon.

A good starting amount is $100 at Coinbase.  I have a referral code I can share via PM. If you use that and buy $100 or more of crypto at Coinbase, you and I both will be credited $10 worth of BTC.  This also lets you watch the promotional videos to earn more free crypto.  I have collected 83.91 worth of cost basis from these videos and 195.18 in mark to market.  If you buy just $100 thats a really good return.  And its kind of fun.

the_gastropod

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Re: Sold my ETH last night
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2021, 01:00:31 PM »
It appears so.
YIELD - you don't have to lend to earn, you can stake instead like ADA, the coin on the Cardano Network. 
...btw, Cardano just became the world's largest cryptocurrency by market capitalization - $65 Billion
FORBES
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ninabambysheva/2021/08/13/cardano-becomes-third-largest-cryptocurrency-overtaking-binance-coin-and-tether/?sh=93814e06f520

Here is just one way/place to stake and earn on the Cardano Network (ADA)  at the
The University of Wyoming
https://www.uwyo.edu/uw/news/2021/06/uw-leads-the-pack-in-cryptocurrency.html

Quote
The UW Department of Accounting and Finance is a partner in this success. While the lab established the Cardano staking node, the College of Business portfolio management class provided the initial pledge of capital and will use analytics on the stake pool parameters to try to optimize returns.

Cardano was recently listed on the exchange in Japan - not an easy feat.
Here in the US, Cardano is part of the Gray Scale Fund investments.

Quote
Staking is where users agree to pledge money to a network in order to help it validate transactions. Lending is where users agree to loan their cryptocurrencies in return for interest payments. Both concepts allow users to earn tokens but the risks and rewards are different.

I am not an expert but there are many other solid coins you can choose to stake. 
Like Polkadot, the DOT coin is a good coin and offers good staking opportunities.
Like ETH, which has different requirements, 32 ETH minimum required and a long-term rigid lock-up.

None of this involves lending.
How to stake: I recommend checking out the staking videos by the CoinBureau on youtube or just google it.
DYOR there are fees, rules, minimums, lots of tricks to improve your return or get extra rewards.

There is no reason not to earn an extra 6% to 12% if you already own the coin anyway and don't plan to trade or sell.
Both Kraken and Coinbase exchange make it even easier for you. They offer staking for a few select coins, buy and stake.
Optimized returns are a good thing especially if they pay for your monthly expenses or pay for your tuition or pay off your student debt.

Can you explain a scenario where it makes sense that these rates would still be achievable in 5 years or 10 years?  The last discussion on here about high return crypto savings accounts concluded with the notion that we are sitting at a (temporary) point in time where due to regulatory practices "the big boys" aren't always able to trade crypto the way they'd like and therefore there is a premium to be paid for various lending strategies.  As well, earning 10% through staking suggests a very high level of inefficiency in the transaction processing at this time.  In the coming years, crypto's "back end" will either have to dramatically improve its efficiency (thus reducing payouts to miners, stakers, etc) or it will simply fail to scale.  And IF there is some way in which these conditions would persist, surely the Wall Street banks and governmental reserves will simply move into this space, vastly out-gunning the individual investor and dropping the premiums paid as a result.  It just seems unimaginable that Joe Blow will be able to make 10% on his $1000 "forever" while Citibank and the Fed are getting a fraction of that for their billions.

This is also a good point. I think often, because of the many layers of abstraction and convoluted techno-malarkey, people forget that, at the end of the day, the money they’re earning enters the system from somewhere. Very rarely, in my experience, do crypto enthusiasts understand where that money is coming from—it just appears via some complex web of techno-magic.