Author Topic: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?  (Read 2692 times)

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Hi,

I have been looking into various commission free ETFs and wanted to invest in a few. However, not all of them are offered with a single brokerage, e.g. Vanguard, iShares, Guggenheim, SPDR, Powershares, etc..

My question is, does it make sense to open up multiple accounts with different brokerages for this purpose?

Ursus Major

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 157
  • Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2018, 12:34:37 AM »
Depends, how often and with what amount you trade them and what the commissions are. And of course how much the extra accounts would cost you in money and hassle.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2937
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
    • Years in the making, I created a journal!
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2018, 05:19:33 AM »
That's kind of more hassle than its worth, I've considered it.

I use Fidelity and own by iShares (commission free, kind of) and Vanguard ETFs inside those accounts.   I purchase ishares in small quantities and occasionally will buy a vanguard fund if its in a larger chunk.  The iShares have a couple of penny/share charge if you liquidate them in what is deemed "short-term".

I also buy multiple ETFs in my regular brokerage account because I'm going to have to sell-down positions in my taxable account for living expenses once I retire.  It'll help me manage harvesting my capital gains better.

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2018, 07:40:43 AM »
Depends, how often and with what amount you trade them and what the commissions are. And of course how much the extra accounts would cost you in money and hassle.

My plan is to sink the initial capital and contribute 2 to 3 times a year to these funds (or perhaps a new one if I find them suitable). I'm aiming to only contribute to commission free ones. The accounts I've looked at don't have inactivity (or low activity) fees. Some might have higher initial limits, but my initial investments do well cover them, so no penalties there.

As far as hassle, since I would like to treat these ETFs as passive investment, I don't think there is much hassle (or am I being naive here?).

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2018, 07:43:27 AM »
I use Fidelity and own by iShares (commission free, kind of) and Vanguard ETFs inside those accounts.   I purchase ishares in small quantities and occasionally will buy a vanguard fund if its in a larger chunk.  The iShares have a couple of penny/share charge if you liquidate them in what is deemed "short-term".

I also buy multiple ETFs in my regular brokerage account because I'm going to have to sell-down positions in my taxable account for living expenses once I retire.  It'll help me manage harvesting my capital gains better.

I am not planning to do any sort of short term liquidation. My goals are to keep the investment there for some time (then you might suggest to invest in index funds).

When you say manage your living expenses once you retired, you mean in 35 years? :) So why buy multiple ETFs just to sell down positions? I am not following that statement.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2937
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
    • Years in the making, I created a journal!
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2018, 08:26:05 AM »
I'm specifically referring to my regular brokerage account.

I intend on retiring from full time work within the next 13 months at 36 years old.  Its beneficial for me to own eight different ETFs (total market, large cap, mid cap, small cap) all multiplied by two companies.  Due to First In, First Out rules, you can't pick specific share lots.

I could explain the capital gain harvesting strategy, but I can't compete with the Mad Fientist.  Here's a link to his work:

https://www.madfientist.com/tax-gain-harvesting/

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2018, 12:24:58 PM »
I'm specifically referring to my regular brokerage account.

I intend on retiring from full time work within the next 13 months at 36 years old.  Its beneficial for me to own eight different ETFs (total market, large cap, mid cap, small cap) all multiplied by two companies.  Due to First In, First Out rules, you can't pick specific share lots.

I can't even fathom being retired at that age, and frankly, your situation is too good to be true that I don't even want to ask how you are planning retirement at the tender age of 36.

I do not intend to open accounts for the sake of having them. The primary reason is that the ETFs I'm interested are from different sectors, and the commission-free ones are all offered by various brokers -- hence the reason for the original question.

P.S. I am 24 and my income already exceeds $80k, so I do not think that strategy is going to work well for me.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2937
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
    • Years in the making, I created a journal!
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2018, 12:35:55 PM »
24, making $80k/yr, and on the mustache forums?  I think you could be there easily in 12 years.  Entirely up to you on the brokerage accounts, just wanted to chime in I decided the ease of one account was worth more than the $20 or so over two years I've spent buying non iShares's ETFs

progman2000

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 14
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2018, 01:17:43 PM »
Yes, open another account if that broker has ETFs you want access to.

I have the majority of my assets with TDAmeritrade but just opened a new Schwab account. I got a new account bonus and a bunch of free trades, in addition to access to other features TD doesnt have. Schwab has a lower commission rate, and I have already let TD know that, so they are starting to show me some love.

I also like having another source to do ACH transfers from.

I don't really get the part about it being more administrative hassle? Yeah, it's one more site to log onto, but the benefit far outweighs the burden IMO.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk


Gin1984

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 4696
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2018, 01:42:34 PM »
I'm specifically referring to my regular brokerage account.

I intend on retiring from full time work within the next 13 months at 36 years old.  Its beneficial for me to own eight different ETFs (total market, large cap, mid cap, small cap) all multiplied by two companies.  Due to First In, First Out rules, you can't pick specific share lots.

I can't even fathom being retired at that age, and frankly, your situation is too good to be true that I don't even want to ask how you are planning retirement at the tender age of 36.

I do not intend to open accounts for the sake of having them. The primary reason is that the ETFs I'm interested are from different sectors, and the commission-free ones are all offered by various brokers -- hence the reason for the original question.

P.S. I am 24 and my income already exceeds $80k, so I do not think that strategy is going to work well for me.
Do you know whose site you are on?

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2018, 03:30:43 PM »
I have the majority of my assets with TDAmeritrade but just opened a new Schwab account. I got a new account bonus and a bunch of free trades, in addition to access to other features TD doesnt have. Schwab has a lower commission rate, and I have already let TD know that, so they are starting to show me some love.


I read that a few months back, TDAmeritrade revamped their entire ETF line up and replaced them with niche market funds which has irked many RIAs in the process. I found that troubling for an independent brokerage that claims it's geared for long term investment. I am actually interested in several Guggenheim ETFs because of their equal weight indexing.

I also like having another source to do ACH transfers from.


I think I've noticed that ACH transfers are slow. For instance, for my Vanguard brokerage account (I have Roth IRA and 401K accounts too), it takes them 7 days to have the money available in the sweeping/settlement account, ready for trading.

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2018, 12:19:26 AM »
For just passive index fund investing, you could find everything under one roof - be that Vanguard, Schwab or Fidelity.  You have $0/trade ETFs at all 3, and can find low expense ratios at all three.

But you want to do something else which you haven't specified.  You hinted in one reply that you like equal weight portfolios.

If you hold everything in Vanguard ETFs, you can rebalance by selling one and using the proceeds from that sale to buy another fund.  You can sell VTI then immediately buy BND with no wait or hassle.  But if Vanguard holds your stock fund while Schwab holds your bond fund... how do you plan to rebalance?

Also, will a 5% slice of your portfolio have much impact?  If it gains +12% next year while VTI gains +10%, that's like growing from 5.0% to 5.6% instead of 5.5%.  You probably won't notice +0.1% differences from tiny allocations of your portfolio.

By owing ETFs and selecting "specific lot identification" for tax treatment, you can tax loss harvest at one institution.  If, the first time you sell you use "first in first out", you are then stuck with that as long as you hold that investment.  When you buy a new fund at Vanguard, hopefully you remember to visit the page with tax treatments and update your setting from "First In First Out" to "lot identification".

In general, you should have a good reason why you can't buy what you need at one firm.  So far, I don't see that described except for the reference to Vanguard funds and an equal weight fund.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 12:26:11 AM by MustacheAndaHalf »

appleshampooid

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Relentless Snacker
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2018, 07:37:40 AM »
I'm specifically referring to my regular brokerage account.

I intend on retiring from full time work within the next 13 months at 36 years old.  Its beneficial for me to own eight different ETFs (total market, large cap, mid cap, small cap) all multiplied by two companies.  Due to First In, First Out rules, you can't pick specific share lots.

I can't even fathom being retired at that age, and frankly, your situation is too good to be true that I don't even want to ask how you are planning retirement at the tender age of 36.

I do not intend to open accounts for the sake of having them. The primary reason is that the ETFs I'm interested are from different sectors, and the commission-free ones are all offered by various brokers -- hence the reason for the original question.

P.S. I am 24 and my income already exceeds $80k, so I do not think that strategy is going to work well for me.
Do you know whose site you are on?

appleshampooid

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Relentless Snacker
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2018, 07:44:10 AM »
For just passive index fund investing, you could find everything under one roof - be that Vanguard, Schwab or Fidelity.  You have $0/trade ETFs at all 3, and can find low expense ratios at all three.

But you want to do something else which you haven't specified.  You hinted in one reply that you like equal weight portfolios.

If you hold everything in Vanguard ETFs, you can rebalance by selling one and using the proceeds from that sale to buy another fund.  You can sell VTI then immediately buy BND with no wait or hassle.  But if Vanguard holds your stock fund while Schwab holds your bond fund... how do you plan to rebalance?

Also, will a 5% slice of your portfolio have much impact?  If it gains +12% next year while VTI gains +10%, that's like growing from 5.0% to 5.6% instead of 5.5%.  You probably won't notice +0.1% differences from tiny allocations of your portfolio.

By owing ETFs and selecting "specific lot identification" for tax treatment, you can tax loss harvest at one institution.  If, the first time you sell you use "first in first out", you are then stuck with that as long as you hold that investment.  When you buy a new fund at Vanguard, hopefully you remember to visit the page with tax treatments and update your setting from "First In First Out" to "lot identification".

In general, you should have a good reason why you can't buy what you need at one firm.  So far, I don't see that described except for the reference to Vanguard funds and an equal weight fund.
Same answer here. By all means you shouldn't be paying commission in this day and age to invest in index funds, be they traditional mutual funds or ETFs. All brokerages will have their own "store brand" ETFs and index funds that trade for free. Could you list some of the ETFs you want and can't find equivalents for at the same firm? Maybe the collective wisdom of the forum can help out.

If you're really digging in to some deep market niches, I could see it being true. In that case MustacheAndAHalf enumerated some of the downsides wrt rebalancing. I'll throw in the hassle of additional 1099s at tax time.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2937
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
    • Years in the making, I created a journal!
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2018, 02:32:38 PM »
@Gin1984 @appleshampooid - Those responses were incredible!  Here I am feeling behind at 36 to some of the people around here.  I like a LOT bigger safety-net/stash given the healthcare issues today

appleshampooid

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Relentless Snacker
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #15 on: February 19, 2018, 03:21:22 PM »
@Gin1984 @appleshampooid - Those responses were incredible!  Here I am feeling behind at 36 to some of the people around here.  I like a LOT bigger safety-net/stash given the healthcare issues today
I'm 33 and looking at 12-17 years more work so I envy your position.

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2018, 07:46:02 PM »
For just passive index fund investing, you could find everything under one roof - be that Vanguard, Schwab or Fidelity.  You have $0/trade ETFs at all 3, and can find low expense ratios at all three.

But you want to do something else which you haven't specified.  You hinted in one reply that you like equal weight portfolios.

If you hold everything in Vanguard ETFs, you can rebalance by selling one and using the proceeds from that sale to buy another fund.  You can sell VTI then immediately buy BND with no wait or hassle.  But if Vanguard holds your stock fund while Schwab holds your bond fund... how do you plan to rebalance?

Also, will a 5% slice of your portfolio have much impact?  If it gains +12% next year while VTI gains +10%, that's like growing from 5.0% to 5.6% instead of 5.5%.  You probably won't notice +0.1% differences from tiny allocations of your portfolio.

By owing ETFs and selecting "specific lot identification" for tax treatment, you can tax loss harvest at one institution.  If, the first time you sell you use "first in first out", you are then stuck with that as long as you hold that investment.  When you buy a new fund at Vanguard, hopefully you remember to visit the page with tax treatments and update your setting from "First In First Out" to "lot identification".

In general, you should have a good reason why you can't buy what you need at one firm.  So far, I don't see that described except for the reference to Vanguard funds and an equal weight fund.

Yes, but sometimes a sector based ETF, e.g. biotech, semiconductor, etc., from one brokerage might appear better compare to the other ones and vice versa. I do have some concerns -- might not call it good reasons as you are inquiring, when I looked at certain funds. For instance, when I was mapping the underlying stocks for several dozen ETFs, I was noticing that the concentration of assets in certain stocks for a specific type of fund were much higher than similar funds offered by other brokerages. Looking at those companies and their projected prospective did give me concern to look elsewhere.

Must rebalancing regularly incur when I am planning to do close to 100% investment in equities that are held for long time? Obviously, there are times that one must sell losing funds to beef up another prospecting funds, but in that case, is the "waiting" part crucial? I suppose I am not understanding the significant of your statement about the waiting part.

One thing I would like to emphasize is that I plan to hold on to my funds for 8 years and more.  Should rebalancing be an issue in this case for one class of assets across multiple accounts? I am more concern about taxation when it comes to selling, but if they are from totally different ETF funds that each being done through a specific brokerage account, should it matter? And yes, I am planning to utilize SpecID when it is suitable. (I have seen the settings under Account Maintenance with Vanguard accounts, however, they only offer cost average for Roth IRA. FIFO and SpecID apply to funds other than mutual funds I suppose. I had also checked with both Charles Schwab and Fidelity to see how easy it is to configure those cost basis settings).

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2018, 07:47:55 PM »
I'm specifically referring to my regular brokerage account.

I intend on retiring from full time work within the next 13 months at 36 years old.  Its beneficial for me to own eight different ETFs (total market, large cap, mid cap, small cap) all multiplied by two companies.  Due to First In, First Out rules, you can't pick specific share lots.

I can't even fathom being retired at that age, and frankly, your situation is too good to be true that I don't even want to ask how you are planning retirement at the tender age of 36.

I do not intend to open accounts for the sake of having them. The primary reason is that the ETFs I'm interested are from different sectors, and the commission-free ones are all offered by various brokers -- hence the reason for the original question.

P.S. I am 24 and my income already exceeds $80k, so I do not think that strategy is going to work well for me.
Do you know whose site you are on?


I'm getting an impression that the mantra on this site is to retire at a tender age of very young and live as a frugal cheap Charlie. Am I right about my assessment?

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2018, 07:49:35 PM »
@Gin1984 @appleshampooid - Those responses were incredible!  Here I am feeling behind at 36 to some of the people around here.  I like a LOT bigger safety-net/stash given the healthcare issues today
I'm 33 and looking at 12-17 years more work so I envy your position.

With the way things are going, I don't think anyone is going to be able to retire comfortably till in our 70's. Frankly, I blame the Baby Boomers for this mess, but that's another discussion I rather not have.

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1692
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2018, 10:21:08 PM »
Hool - The data I've seen suggests your approach to investing will not beat the market.

You cannot pick the next winners by relying on past performance:
"That's why the SEC requires funds to tell investors that a fund's past performance does not necessarily predict future results."
https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersmperfhtm.html

Professional fund managers have millions to spend on research and a full time staff to beat the market.  They are much better prepared than any of us.  Yet according to SPIVA, they fail to beat their benchmarks.
https://us.spindices.com/documents/spiva/spiva-us-mid-year-2017.pdf

If you disagree with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and think you will beat the stock market where professionals fail, the data suggests that's unlikely.

chasesfish

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2937
  • Age: 37
  • Location: Texas
    • Years in the making, I created a journal!
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2018, 05:00:07 AM »
@Hool - Spend some time reading some of what MMM wrote and maybe listen to a few of his interviews.  This is one of his best posts:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/

This stuff isn't magic, in 2008 my wife and I were 26 and we had six figures in student loan debt and almost no net worth.  I did have some small retirement accounts that were about equal to our student loan debt and an over-sized house that was underwater.  Since then we've  increased our income and saved 50%+ of what we've made and are sitting at a $1.5mil net worth.  Even if our salaries didn't accelerate, we would be past $1mil 10-years later.

We aren't depriving ourselves either, living on $2,500/mo plus the cost of housing is a pretty luxurious life in the US.


Proud Foot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 987
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #21 on: February 20, 2018, 10:02:57 AM »
I'm specifically referring to my regular brokerage account.

I intend on retiring from full time work within the next 13 months at 36 years old.  Its beneficial for me to own eight different ETFs (total market, large cap, mid cap, small cap) all multiplied by two companies.  Due to First In, First Out rules, you can't pick specific share lots.

I could explain the capital gain harvesting strategy, but I can't compete with the Mad Fientist.  Here's a link to his work:

https://www.madfientist.com/tax-gain-harvesting/

If you want to to it this way you can. However the FIFO provision was dropped from the final tax bill.

appleshampooid

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Relentless Snacker
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #22 on: February 20, 2018, 10:09:27 AM »
Hool - The data I've seen suggests your approach to investing will not beat the market.

You cannot pick the next winners by relying on past performance:
"That's why the SEC requires funds to tell investors that a fund's past performance does not necessarily predict future results."
https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersmperfhtm.html

Professional fund managers have millions to spend on research and a full time staff to beat the market.  They are much better prepared than any of us.  Yet according to SPIVA, they fail to beat their benchmarks.
https://us.spindices.com/documents/spiva/spiva-us-mid-year-2017.pdf

If you disagree with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and think you will beat the stock market where professionals fail, the data suggests that's unlikely.
Once again I agree with MustacheAndaHalf.

Hool, I am curious how you arrived at this forum? No shade, just honestly curious. Mr. Money Mustache is a blog all about frugality, being happy with less, and early retirement.

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #23 on: February 20, 2018, 05:36:07 PM »
Hool - The data I've seen suggests your approach to investing will not beat the market.

You cannot pick the next winners by relying on past performance:
"That's why the SEC requires funds to tell investors that a fund's past performance does not necessarily predict future results."
https://www.sec.gov/fast-answers/answersmperfhtm.html

Professional fund managers have millions to spend on research and a full time staff to beat the market.  They are much better prepared than any of us.  Yet according to SPIVA, they fail to beat their benchmarks.
https://us.spindices.com/documents/spiva/spiva-us-mid-year-2017.pdf

If you disagree with the Securities and Exchange Commission, and think you will beat the stock market where professionals fail, the data suggests that's unlikely.

I'm fully aware of that axiom. I do look for what I consider undervalue funds, but I also consider the past performance (usually over 10 years, specially during the last crisis) when I pick them. There are many factors, including macro/microeconomics, managements, industries, etc. that determine the future performance. I am certainly not blind to it.

And yes, I think at this age, everyone knows how the pros and hedge funds have not performed as strongly that the industry thought they would do. That discovery has been beaten to death by down.

My expectations are actually very low. When you talk about "beat[ing] the market", I am not expecting to outperform anything out of ordinary. Many people talk about 7% to 8% annual increase; I am more thinking about 3% to 4% after inflation, hence the reason why I said I might have to work till in mid 70's.

Maybe I should have mentioned this earlier, but I work for a company that does auditing for a lot of companies and governments here in the U.S. and around the world (including the Federal Reserve). So, as you can see, they demand to know almost everything about our financial portfolios (and I don't mean just our investment accounts, but also things like what kind of car insurance we have, etc.). As a matter of fact, they track everything in a well defined system internally and we have to consent to such invasive intrusion (I was actually really pissed when they increased their scrutiny late last year). This is due to possible conflict of interest that might arise for each engagement, even though my line of work has nothing to do with accounting and auditing.

There are many investments that might not pass their screening for certain individuals that work on certain projects. So as you can see, I have to be very selective about my options, which might require to have access to a wider range of funds, and ultimately, needing to have multiple accounts to achieve this objective (a.k.a. not getting flagged by the company).
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 06:06:03 PM by Hool »

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #24 on: February 20, 2018, 05:52:26 PM »
@Hool - Spend some time reading some of what MMM wrote and maybe listen to a few of his interviews.  This is one of his best posts:

http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/02/22/getting-rich-from-zero-to-hero-in-one-blog-post/

This stuff isn't magic, in 2008 my wife and I were 26 and we had six figures in student loan debt and almost no net worth.  I did have some small retirement accounts that were about equal to our student loan debt and an over-sized house that was underwater.  Since then we've  increased our income and saved 50%+ of what we've made and are sitting at a $1.5mil net worth.  Even if our salaries didn't accelerate, we would be past $1mil 10-years later.

We aren't depriving ourselves either, living on $2,500/mo plus the cost of housing is a pretty luxurious life in the US.

In due time, I might read it. I am very skeptical of people that assume everyone would fall under their paradigm or plan.

And sorry to be analytical here, but how was it that your retirement accounts were as much as your six-figure student loan debt, and you still managed to accumulate $1.5mil/2 in 10 years?

First of all, you and your wife have started your investment in one of the most prosperous eras in recent market history. If I had what I have right now back in 2008 - 2009. I would have quadrupled it by now.

Second, my rate of saving/investment is 67% according to all my expenses and revenues in the past 18 months, and I still don't think I would make it (20% 401k, Roth IRA, and savings). I am not planning to get married, nor have any kid -- not now, not tomorrow, not 30 years from now, and I'm still panicking (I'm not sure why folks around my age are not). You have to take into account all the health problems that one might have, elderly parent that you might have to take care of, contributing to one's kids' college tuition (I have a nephew that I am contributing to his 529 fund), etc... There are so many incidents that can clean your clock.

That 67% is coming at the expense of taking only vacations to visit family members, not going out (maybe twice a month), using anything that is 20+ old, etc.. My expenses are coming around $1700/month. That includes everything; from rent, utilities, food, extra stuff I need, gas, insurance, healthcare expenses... everything, and I still think it's too high. And it will probably go up another $400/month when I move to a more expensive state/city this year.

I'm expecting to make $130k+ in 10 years but will fluctuate from $110k - $140k after that for a foreseeable future. Did I mention I'm panicking?

Hool

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 05:55:50 PM »
Once again I agree with MustacheAndaHalf.

Hool, I am curious how you arrived at this forum? No shade, just honestly curious. Mr. Money Mustache is a blog all about frugality, being happy with less, and early retirement.

I can't recall how I got here. I have been researching a lot of ETFs and probably ran into the website's author's article for a topic. None of my browsers keep history of visited sites, so I can't tell.

And yes, I'm frugal, but I'm not happy with less because I think less means that at any moment things can go horribly wrong and having less would get you in deep trouble. I don't want to put myself in that situation. Early retirement is out of question. My goal in life is to "survive" and be relatively stress free. I suppose I'm not doing a fine job doing either. :)

appleshampooid

  • Stubble
  • **
  • Posts: 215
  • Relentless Snacker
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #26 on: February 21, 2018, 04:30:11 AM »
Once again I agree with MustacheAndaHalf.

Hool, I am curious how you arrived at this forum? No shade, just honestly curious. Mr. Money Mustache is a blog all about frugality, being happy with less, and early retirement.

I can't recall how I got here. I have been researching a lot of ETFs and probably ran into the website's author's article for a topic. None of my browsers keep history of visited sites, so I can't tell.

And yes, I'm frugal, but I'm not happy with less because I think less means that at any moment things can go horribly wrong and having less would get you in deep trouble. I don't want to put myself in that situation. Early retirement is out of question. My goal in life is to "survive" and be relatively stress free. I suppose I'm not doing a fine job doing either. :)
You certainly sound stressed.

Mustachianism and early retirement aren't for everyone, that is for sure. But you are operating from a position of fear, which isn't good for anyone. Remember what Master Yoda said...fear is the path to the dark side.

Proud Foot

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 987
Re: Should I Open Up Accounts w/ Multiple Brokerages for Different ETFs?
« Reply #27 on: February 21, 2018, 10:17:57 AM »
Hool,

Which part of it all is stressful for you? At age 24 with your expenses only $1,700/month and saving 67% means you're saving around $3,450/month or $41,400 per year! Even with no growth after 30 years that amounts to over $1.2 million. Using a conservative growth rate of 4% gives you $28.7 million.

In my opinion you could back off the savings a little and enjoy your life now rather than stressing so much about things far down the road and out of your control. Be open minded and read this blog from the beginning. I think you will find it to be eye opening about how much is actually needed. The mainstream world keeps us in this consumer cycle and gives us fears about the unknown to keep us trapped in our jobs and working our whole life. Once that mindset is broken you can live a happier, less stressful life.