Author Topic: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???  (Read 7848 times)

Le Poisson

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Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« on: November 10, 2015, 08:25:24 AM »
So I made a mistake early on in this investing game. I dropped all my savings into my TFSA at one, and bought $1200 in VCN.TO on May 4th.

If you look at the lifetime chart of that ETF, you'll see I bought it at its peak, and it has done nothing but drop ever since. I'd like to prop it up.

How big of a mistake would it be to move half of my VCN.TO into ZZZ.TO which I already hod about $100 in (as a fun side bet) and has a very positive outlook right now?

Would I be better to just divert new contributions to ZZZ instead of contributing to VCN, and then move the cash back to VCN once ZZZ hits a targeted gain?

Or should I stick with slow and steady and hope that dollar cost averaging works out over time and that VCN finds its feet? FWIW, my total contribs to VCN since may are are $1677 and it has a current value of $1488 - thats a 13% loss over 7 months. It has never been in positive territory since I bought.

Of course all this is based on an assumption that ZZZ will continue to outperform VCN
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 08:29:33 AM by Prospector »

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2015, 08:27:48 AM »
The outlook on ZZZ.TO

Analyst Actions: Sleep Country Canada Issued Higher Target Price at BMO Research; Outperform Reiterated
11/05/2015 11:44:40AM | Midnight Trader

11:44 AM EST, 11/05/2015 (MT Newswires) -- Sleep Country Canada (ZZZ.TO) Thursday received a higher target price of $20 from BMO Research as the broker raises its EPS outlook on the mattress retailer in light of better-than-forecast Q3 2015 results.

The stock remains rated with outperform.

BMO noted Sleep Country's competitive position and broad brand awareness in the Canadian market; attractive store economics; and attractive forecasted EBITDA and EPS growth rates. The broker's EPS forecasts are now $1.01 for 2015 and $1.07 for 2016. The 2017 estimate is still at $1.18.

The stock edged up almost 1% recently and reached $17.43 earlier, its highest level since its TSX debut in July of this year.
Price: 17.40 , Change: +0.16 , Percent Change: +0.9

plainjane

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2015, 08:33:32 AM »
This is the opposite of "buy low sell high".
You are thinking exceptionally short term.

Why did you buy an index?  Buying a single stock is going to be much more volatile.

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2015, 08:43:32 AM »
This is the opposite of "buy low sell high".
You are thinking exceptionally short term.

Why did you buy an index?  Buying a single stock is going to be much more volatile.

Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses. 20%? 30%? And then what? Sit on cash or reinvest? On the ZZZ side, I'm buying low, on the VCN side I see it as loss prevention. I can't see a positive to holding VCN through this slump and would like to see that money start pulling some weight rather than bringing down the entire portfolio.

I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

In case you haven't seen the chart, here is what it looks like. I bought it at the tippy-top of the peak. IOW, the ETF has only traded higher than when I bought once.


protostache

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #4 on: November 10, 2015, 08:51:35 AM »
Don't buy individual stocks unless you understand what the business does and, more importantly, how to read their financial statements:

http://s2.q4cdn.com/073941997/files/doc_financials/SLEEP-COUNTRY-CANADA-INC-(Interim-Cons)-(Sept-2015)-V11(-for-filing-).pdf

Sleep Country Canada, in the nine months ending Sept 30th 2015, lost 60 million CAD. This compares to the same period last year, where they lost 20 million CAD. Maybe there's some weird accounting going on, but even so why would you buy shares in this company? Just because the price is low and some yahoo sitting at a desk somewhere says you should buy?

gillstone

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2015, 08:52:40 AM »
I've been where you are.  I bought an OTC stock high, watched it do a reverse split (30-1) and then drop to 10% of the original purchase price.  I let it ride in my portfolio as a $1.85 reminder to stay in index funds. 

A few weeks ago I gamed out how much I would have to invest so that a small uptick in price would recoup my original losses.  I would have had to drop roughly $1,200 at $0.23/share and then hoped it went up in the near future. 

I decided to eat the loss rather than live the phrase "throw good money after bad".

If you want to drop an underperforming index, fine but consider staying out of individual stocks.  The "optimistic outlook" is a crystal ball of full of crap and you may end up compounding your loss.


Retire-Canada

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2015, 09:15:37 AM »
Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses. 20%? 30%? And then what? Sit on cash or reinvest?

VCN is a broad based index. It's not going to zero as long as Canada exists in any form we would currently recognize.

You don't sell it ever....well at least until you retire needing income or need to rebalance.

Since it's lower now you buy more every time you add money to rebalance the changes in your target asset allocation.

Don't feel bad I bought some VCN this year when it was higher. I don't love looking at a paper loss, but really who cares what VCN trades for today? I'm not planning on selling it in the short term.

JLee

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2015, 09:24:25 AM »
This is the opposite of "buy low sell high".
You are thinking exceptionally short term.

Why did you buy an index?  Buying a single stock is going to be much more volatile.

Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses. 20%? 30%? And then what? Sit on cash or reinvest? On the ZZZ side, I'm buying low, on the VCN side I see it as loss prevention. I can't see a positive to holding VCN through this slump and would like to see that money start pulling some weight rather than bringing down the entire portfolio.

I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

In case you haven't seen the chart, here is what it looks like. I bought it at the tippy-top of the peak. IOW, the ETF has only traded higher than when I bought once.

In short, you don't. Let it ride and it'll come back up.

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2015, 09:26:32 AM »
Don't buy individual stocks unless you understand what the business does and, more importantly, how to read their financial statements:

http://s2.q4cdn.com/073941997/files/doc_financials/SLEEP-COUNTRY-CANADA-INC-(Interim-Cons)-(Sept-2015)-V11(-for-filing-).pdf

Sleep Country Canada, in the nine months ending Sept 30th 2015, lost 60 million CAD. This compares to the same period last year, where they lost 20 million CAD. Maybe there's some weird accounting going on, but even so why would you buy shares in this company? Just because the price is low and some yahoo sitting at a desk somewhere says you should buy?

Well since I bought, I'm up 23% and rising, so I'm happy about that.

plainjane

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2015, 09:39:38 AM »
I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

In case you haven't seen the chart, here is what it looks like. I bought it at the tippy-top of the peak. IOW, the ETF has only traded higher than when I bought once.

I have a pretty good sense of how a Canadian index fund has been trading the past few months.  I have been putting in my regular contributions twice a month since Feb, and my monthly net worth calculation basically only showed a positive movement in October.  Seeing no (or downward) movement when you've dropped in ~40% of your take home pay for months and months is painful.  This is why people reiterate "stocks are on sale" - it's to remind ourselves that we're in it for the long haul.

I remember the first time my investments dropped more than my monthly contribution.  I think it was around $900, maybe 10% of my investable assets.  It hurt.  Now my _daily_ fluctuation is more than $1000 if I haven't added any cash in.

There are studies about how much growth you miss out on by being out of the indexes on the biggest 10 and 20 days.  Going into a single stock (esp based on a single writeup), when you can't manage the volatility of an index, is a bad move.  If I'm "cutting my losses" in a broad-based index, it's because I need that money to live because my e-fund is empty, I'm leaving that country and don't want to deal with currency issues, or I'm buying an off-grid house in the countryside because the world is collapsing.

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2015, 09:49:26 AM »
This is the opposite of "buy low sell high".
You are thinking exceptionally short term.

Why did you buy an index?  Buying a single stock is going to be much more volatile.

Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses. 20%? 30%? And then what? Sit on cash or reinvest? On the ZZZ side, I'm buying low, on the VCN side I see it as loss prevention. I can't see a positive to holding VCN through this slump and would like to see that money start pulling some weight rather than bringing down the entire portfolio.

I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

In case you haven't seen the chart, here is what it looks like. I bought it at the tippy-top of the peak. IOW, the ETF has only traded higher than when I bought once.

In short, you don't. Let it ride and it'll come back up.

See here's the thing, I did that for 15 years with IG before I switched to this site and its advice. I'm gunshy now since IG kept showing growth while taking all my earnings in MERs. Now I have no MERs, and no growth and things still aren't working in my favour. I can't afford to keep losing - I only have 10 years to go until 'normal' retirement, ER is pretty much out of the picture.

protostache

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #11 on: November 10, 2015, 09:51:41 AM »
What's IG?

YoungInvestor

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #12 on: November 10, 2015, 10:22:08 AM »
This is the opposite of "buy low sell high".
You are thinking exceptionally short term.

Why did you buy an index?  Buying a single stock is going to be much more volatile.

Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses. 20%? 30%? And then what? Sit on cash or reinvest? On the ZZZ side, I'm buying low, on the VCN side I see it as loss prevention. I can't see a positive to holding VCN through this slump and would like to see that money start pulling some weight rather than bringing down the entire portfolio.

I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

In case you haven't seen the chart, here is what it looks like. I bought it at the tippy-top of the peak. IOW, the ETF has only traded higher than when I bought once.

In short, you don't. Let it ride and it'll come back up.

See here's the thing, I did that for 15 years with IG before I switched to this site and its advice. I'm gunshy now since IG kept showing growth while taking all my earnings in MERs. Now I have no MERs, and no growth and things still aren't working in my favour. I can't afford to keep losing - I only have 10 years to go until 'normal' retirement, ER is pretty much out of the picture.

Alright, I'll bite. Explain to me why sleep country is worth more than 20$ a share. What are the expected revenues, etc.

You're considering putting your retirement on the line for a mattress company. At least show that you understand its value.

Right now you're selling low and buying high.

Good luck, anyway.

Retire-Canada

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #13 on: November 10, 2015, 10:24:53 AM »

See here's the thing, I did that for 15 years with IG before I switched to this site and its advice. I'm gunshy now since IG kept showing growth while taking all my earnings in MERs. Now I have no MERs, and no growth and things still aren't working in my favour. I can't afford to keep losing - I only have 10 years to go until 'normal' retirement, ER is pretty much out of the picture.

Ultimately if you can't hold the course on an index fund and will end up selling at a loss next decent crash, wait in cash until the markets are up and buy high.....then you stand no chance of meeting your retirement goals.

I'd take a step back instead of asking yourself about selling VCN and buying Sleep Country....I'd be asking what level of risk can I handle and what investment plan will let me feel comfortable staying the course when various asset classes do their inevitable drops?  Then build a plan that works with that comfort zone.

Argyle

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #14 on: November 10, 2015, 10:30:26 AM »
Seven months is nothing, nothing.   You have to be able to wait out the down turns to prosper in this business. 

If you want to buy mattress stocks, leave your former money where it is.  Buy some mattress stock with your next paycheck.  It has a much lower statistical chance of proving profitable over the long run, but either you'll make a profit or you'll have paid tuition for a lesson.

But leave your current money in the index fund.  Diversification is good, right?  An index fund is a lot of diversification right there, but having your money solely in a mattress stock is the very opposite of diversification.  So you can add the mattress stock in to your portfolio if you want some gambling in there.  But do not rob your index fund holdings to do it.  Start with new money.

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2015, 10:46:28 AM »
It's worth noting that even having your country invaded and conquered in part by an irredentist kleptocracy doesn't send your stock index to zero: UX.IND

gillstone

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2015, 10:51:30 AM »
It's worth noting that even having your country invaded and conquered in part by an irredentist kleptocracy doesn't send your stock index to zero: UX.IND

Well put

FrugalFan

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2015, 12:50:09 PM »
This is the opposite of "buy low sell high".
You are thinking exceptionally short term.

Why did you buy an index?  Buying a single stock is going to be much more volatile.

Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses. 20%? 30%? And then what? Sit on cash or reinvest? On the ZZZ side, I'm buying low, on the VCN side I see it as loss prevention. I can't see a positive to holding VCN through this slump and would like to see that money start pulling some weight rather than bringing down the entire portfolio.

I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

In case you haven't seen the chart, here is what it looks like. I bought it at the tippy-top of the peak. IOW, the ETF has only traded higher than when I bought once.

In short, you don't. Let it ride and it'll come back up.

See here's the thing, I did that for 15 years with IG before I switched to this site and its advice. I'm gunshy now since IG kept showing growth while taking all my earnings in MERs. Now I have no MERs, and no growth and things still aren't working in my favour. I can't afford to keep losing - I only have 10 years to go until 'normal' retirement, ER is pretty much out of the picture.

I doubt IG had been positive for you each year (unless you started after 2009 and skipped 2011). I am in the process of transferring everything over from Edward Jones, and all of our stupid high MER mutual funds have suffered a lot in the last year. More so that VCN has done in the last year. The fact is that the Canadian stock market is struggling now due to energy prices, but it will improve (it might even be interesting to look to see how you would have done if you had kept your old funds). Do not sell low. Never cut your losses. That is the worst thing you could do. VCN was even higher than your purchase price in 2014 and it will get there again. I just bought $8,551 of it today! And I was thinking, wow, I'm getting a great deal buying at 2013 prices. It's all about the long term perspective. Missing just 5 good days in the market over more than three decades can have a huge impact on returns:
http://www.businessinsider.com/missing-the-best-days-in-the-market-2013-2

Kaspian

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2015, 12:53:26 PM »

Thanks Jane - at what point do you cut your losses.

With an index fund?  Certainly not after 6 months!  You know tinkering with a portfolio is the reason (even most passive investors) investors don't beat the index, right?


I can always buy back in at the same level as where it is now, and the result will be sell low, buy low, sell high.

No, it won't.  You've just proved a 20-30% drop triggers an emotional reaction.  It will be sell low, buy low, hold high, sell low again.  Greed will definitely take over if your stock rockets and you won't be able to sell. 
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 12:56:12 PM by Kaspian »

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2015, 05:57:22 PM »
OP, you're missing the essential part of investing - buying and holding multiple asset classes.

I do dumped all my savings (about a hundred times of what you're starting with though) into ETFs at the start of the year, and like you, my VCN is the loser of the bunch.

However...

XEF + 12.59%
VCN - 6.88%
VUN + 13.79%
VEE - 12.77%
VAB -3.4%

Total account +4.82%


With your $1500, that's not enough to break into multiple asset classes of ETFs, and IMO you're far better off investing in a low cost mutual fund.  Have you checked out CCP?

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/model-portfolios-2/

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2012/07/30/comparing-the-costs-of-index-funds-and-etfs/
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 06:02:16 PM by Heckler »

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2015, 06:01:22 PM »
And you haven't made  a huge mistake - just a first step.  Get another $3K into VAB, $3K into VXC to go with your $1.5K VCN you'll have a balanced portfolio.  However, if you're paying commission to buy them, you'll have way overpaid in fees.

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2015, 06:24:55 PM »
And you haven't made  a huge mistake - just a first step.  Get another $3K into VAB, $3K into VXC to go with your $1.5K VCN you'll have a balanced portfolio.  However, if you're paying commission to buy them, you'll have way overpaid in fees.

This is interesting, I am trying to follow the CCP strategy, but he calls for a split if 25% VAB, 25% VCN and 50% VXC It sounds like you are suggesting I tinker with the balancing to get VCN to be a smaller share of the pie? How do I know what to play with if I'm just rebalancing around a loser? And no - there are no commissions.


Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2015, 06:27:06 PM »
OP, you're missing the essential part of investing - buying and holding multiple asset classes.

I do dumped all my savings (about a hundred times of what you're starting with though) into ETFs at the start of the year, and like you, my VCN is the loser of the bunch.

However...

XEF + 12.59%
VCN - 6.88%
VUN + 13.79%
VEE - 12.77%
VAB -3.4%

Total account +4.82%


With your $1500, that's not enough to break into multiple asset classes of ETFs, and IMO you're far better off investing in a low cost mutual fund.  Have you checked out CCP?

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/model-portfolios-2/

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/2012/07/30/comparing-the-costs-of-index-funds-and-etfs/

Yes its a tinystache, but its what I've got. Right now I have a total of around $6300 in the TFSA

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2015, 09:16:40 PM »
And you haven't made  a huge mistake - just a first step.  Get another $3K into VAB, $3K into VXC to go with your $1.5K VCN you'll have a balanced portfolio.  However, if you're paying commission to buy them, you'll have way overpaid in fees.

This is interesting, I am trying to follow the CCP strategy, but he calls for a split if 25% VAB, 25% VCN and 50% VXC It sounds like you are suggesting I tinker with the balancing to get VCN to be a smaller share of the pie? How do I know what to play with if I'm just rebalancing around a loser? And no - there are no commissions.


Balanced CCP is 40% VAB, 20% VCN, 40% VXC.

http://canadiancouchpotato.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/CCP-Model-Portfolios-Vanguard.pdf


 I incorrectly assumed "I dropped all my savings into my TFSA at one, and bought $1200 in VCN.TO on May 4th." meant your $1488 VCN was your only investment. 

The point is, buy and hold and continue to grow by adding new money to balance out to your desired allocation. Write down your plan and stick with it. 

25/25/50 is the Assertive CCP model, prone to more fluctuation than balanced.   If your doubting your 25 VCN holding, what will you do when the CAD exchange rate goes up and VXC gies down?
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 09:21:57 PM by Heckler »

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2015, 09:41:18 PM »
? And no - there are no commissions.

None to buy, but what about to sell? And buy, then sell again...

Calculate the percentage fee youd have to sell VCN, buy ZZZ, sell ZZZ and rebuy VCN after its gone back up.

smilla

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2015, 11:06:31 PM »
This is interesting, I am trying to follow the CCP strategy, but he calls for a split if 25% VAB, 25% VCN and 50% VXC It sounds like you are suggesting I tinker with the balancing to get VCN to be a smaller share of the pie? How do I know what to play with if I'm just rebalancing around a loser? And no - there are no commissions.

Balanced CCP is 40% VAB, 20% VCN, 40% VXC.

...

The point is, buy and hold and continue to grow by adding new money to balance out to your desired allocation. Write down your plan and stick with it. 

25/25/50 is the Assertive CCP model, prone to more fluctuation than balanced.   If your doubting your 25 VCN holding, what will you do when the CAD exchange rate goes up and VXC gies down?

Don't sell VCN. If, after careful consideration*, you have absolutely determined that the 25/25/50 CCP portfolio is too heavy in equities for your comfort, start moving to the 40/20/40 CCP portfolio with new contributions.

*You should probably read up some more on investing, and write out an investment policy statement, before making any changes to your current allocation (even if you did just pick it out of a hat).  Also, having a play money allocation may not be the wisest choice if you're just beginning with DIY investing.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2015, 11:19:05 PM by smilla »

Doubleh

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #26 on: November 11, 2015, 02:36:57 AM »
As has been said you haven't made a mistake yet - you've invested in a broad index and learned a good early lesson about your emotional reaction to seeing your portfolio fall. If you do what you have suggested you will be making a mistake.

I haven't seen anyone mention it yet but you have to realise that whatever good news you have heard about zzz is already reflected in its share price today, so you can't expect it to go up because of a positive outlook, however counter intuitive this seems. There may be ways to identify undervalued stocks but the people who can do this consistently are few and far between, this is not the place to start at this stage of your investing career.

It sounds like you could really benefit from a little reading to understand basics like the difference between an index and a single stock as these are very different propositions and you seem a little unclear right now. The idea of cutting your losses is really one that may make sense for a single stock which could go to zero, but not for a broad index which reflects the performance of all the stocks in a particular market.

A great place to start learning more is the stock series by JL Collins, at least the first few articles will give you a much better understanding of what you're proposing.

http://jlcollinsnh.com/stock-series/

Good luck, it may seem overwhelming at first but there really isn't that much to learn and you're in a great place for good advice.

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2015, 02:44:11 PM »
Today I sold off ZZZ.TO - despite it rising yet again. Might as well get out while I'm ahead, right?

The balance sheet that was posted was helpful in seeing where folks were coming from - thankyou - but I am really not any further ahead for having read it. Yes money may be being lost today, but isn't that why ZZZ had its IPO a few months ago - to restructure and change and make a recovery possible? Isn't the rising price today reflective of that change? I'm not challenging everyone's thinking, just asking questions and trying to outline what I'm seeing.

Or is the thinking that todays rise shows that things are turning around, but now it will just level off until another big announcement comes up, get out while you can, and go for the security of the ETF?

The sale of this stock cost me a whopping $5 - and of course the $5 on the buying end. I made $14 out of my investment,  paid $10, and ended up pocketing $4 - big trade, I know, but that was the intent of the $100 mad money account - to learn this stuff - and its sortof working?

I'm going to try to find some of the books referenced in the thread - but lately reading has been less and less appealing to me. I don't know if its a headspace issue or an eyesight issue, but even enjoyable reading is no longer enjoyable. I've tried to get through a few books lately on the subject of investing/trading, but haven't gotten far. Short articles are about all I'm getting through. Even reports at work are getting cumbersome. I was hoping that between this space (MMM) and a small fun account I could learn the hard way - apparently that's a bad idea. OTOH, My money is still in VCN, and I'm out of ZZZ, so maybe its working??? I'll tell you in 10 years.

As for the $$$ I got out of ZZZ - well, I slid it over to VAB. I thought about putting it into another stock (NFI.TO) just for fun, but the advice here to learn something rather than play with money was banging around loudly in my head, so its safely with Vanguard.

Thanks for your ideas and sobriety guys, still trudging.

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2015, 06:42:52 PM »
So, as a learning exercise, what was your annual MER on ZZZ?   Expenses divided by Net Asset Value.

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2015, 06:44:51 PM »
And then extend that line of thought to your VCN purchases at $5 a pop.

smilla

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #30 on: November 12, 2015, 06:55:38 PM »
That's impressive self-discipline Prospector! The books and blogs will be around when you're ready and in the meantime you have a simple, diversified, low-cost CCP portfolio to keep adding money to. And it will grow! but in the meantime, appreciate the sale prices :) 

smilla

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #31 on: November 12, 2015, 07:11:46 PM »
And then extend that line of thought to your VCN purchases at $5 a pop.

$5 a pop?  What brokerage do you use Prospector? Do they offer any commission-free etfs? There are acceptable alternatives to Vanguard that you can use while keeping the same general portfolio. 

If they don't offer free acceptable alternatives, you may want to limit yourself to buying only when you've got $500+ saved up (as cash in the tfsa, or in a separate savings account), and then just buy the one fund that is most below its allocation. 

Le Poisson

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #32 on: November 12, 2015, 08:03:48 PM »
And then extend that line of thought to your VCN purchases at $5 a pop.

$5 a pop?  What brokerage do you use Prospector? Do they offer any commission-free etfs? There are acceptable alternatives to Vanguard that you can use while keeping the same general portfolio. 

If they don't offer free acceptable alternatives, you may want to limit yourself to buying only when you've got $500+ saved up (as cash in the tfsa, or in a separate savings account), and then just buy the one fund that is most below its allocation.

I have no idea where Heckler keeps coming up with $5 per buy.

QT does ETF's for no fee. Stock trades are about $5 per transaction.

Heckler

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #33 on: November 12, 2015, 08:21:36 PM »
I stuck with BMO, so pay $9.95 per any trade, so have set my own $2500 transaction minimum.  Carry on...

Doubleh

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #34 on: November 13, 2015, 06:59:57 AM »
Sounds like you're learning pretty quickly and the cut taken by trading costs, both when you buy and when you sell, is a huge part of why most active investors lose money!

smilla

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Re: Short term switch... Sell vanguard, buy Sleep country???
« Reply #35 on: November 13, 2015, 03:12:15 PM »
I have no idea where Heckler keeps coming up with $5 per buy.

QT does ETF's for no fee. Stock trades are about $5 per transaction.

Perfect!