Author Topic: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?  (Read 6603 times)

Peter Parker

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Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« on: March 12, 2016, 05:23:21 PM »
I just heard Robert Kiyosaki on the Radical Personal Finance Podcast.  What an Eeyore....Basically said the U.S. will collapse in 2016 or 2017 due to our debt (which he puts at 250 Trillion) and to buy gold or silver, vote for Trump, and hold your arses....

I'm  thinking I'm going to continue DCA and take my chances...You?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 05:26:25 PM by Peter Parker »

mrpercentage

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2016, 06:01:28 PM »
Is he counting everyone's credit cards too? Sounds crazy. I would worry about inflation. I think we could be hit pretty hard by that to help remove the government debt. This also has the wonderful effect of screwing everyone with fixed income streams like a pension.

I'm not fear mongering but it we need to radically alter how we handle currency and keep interest at zero while restricting credit to quality loans. Zero interest rates are a cancer if the loans are not restricted greatly in size and quality of borrower.

Read the History of Money by Jack Weatherford or YouTube search Money as Debt

I also am all for a the Star Wars Credit. Credits will be a world wide currency anchored to human population and not subject to inflation because no loans can be legally made in the credit. There for no interest rate or leveraged lending that leads to banks creating money out of thin air. You can bank run all day on credits because they are exchanged 1 for 1--- Not the 9 to 1 banks do today.

Folks inflation is the devil. He takes everything and doesn't even admit he is doing it.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2016, 06:17:10 PM by mrpercentage »

Tom Bri

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2016, 06:27:30 PM »
The big bust will come when it comes. Not predictable.

The 'Star Trek Credit' sounds interesting, but how do you stop people from lending at interest? If we eliminate bank lending, we'll be right back where we were before we had bank lending, with individuals and mobsters making the loans. I don't see how you can legislate away lending. Make it illegal, yes, but no way to eliminate it.

mrpercentage

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2016, 06:41:00 PM »
It would stop the current sanctioned creation of money. Most people don't realize the bank lends $9 for ever $1 they have. They lend and charge interest for money that doesn't exist and it's totally legal. If I did that it would be called counterfeit

They don't teach this in high school. That is on purpose. The one thing that commands so much of your life is almost never discussed--- why is that? Because the establishment has been taking advantage of the people for a long time. They charge interest for money that doesn't exist and they force you to invest by creating inflation. The whole thing is a sham and it's morally reprehensible

Tyson

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2016, 06:42:34 PM »
With a collapse of that magnitude, we're going to have FAR more to worry about than our portfolios. 

The problem with the doomsayers that if the sh!it really hits the fan, there's really nothing you can do to protect yourself.  Buying gold and other crap like that won't help you.  I suggest investing in canned goods and lots of bottled water.  And a bunker.  And weapons.

v8rx7guy

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2016, 07:15:12 PM »
A quarter quadrillion in debt... sweet!  I actually had to google "what comes after trillion"...

AlmstRtrd

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2016, 06:49:08 AM »
... Buying gold and other crap like that won't help you.  I suggest investing in canned goods and lots of bottled water.  And a bunker.  And weapons.

I disagree. My opinion is that gold would go way up in value if we had severe inflation, say, 6% or higher. The mistake many precious metal people make is that they look at gold like a religion and overload on it. It can just be used as a tool, the same as one does with stocks, bonds and cash. Just my opinion, of course.

The level of indebtedness on all levels has been a concern for at least 50 years. I don't think it's a good thing but it might not really bring everything crashing down. Or, if it does, that event could be 20 years or more down the line.

Lastly, Kiyosaki is in the business of monetizing his words. If he's to do that, he almost has to take extreme positions. He doesn't even have to believe what he is saying. Of course he could be correct. And, to his credit, he seems to be giving a time frame for his doom scenario.

mrpercentage

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2016, 07:07:38 AM »
Lastly, Kiyosaki is in the business of monetizing his words. If he's to do that, he almost has to take extreme positions. He doesn't even have to believe what he is saying. Of course he could be correct. And, to his credit, he seems to be giving a time frame for his doom scenario.

+1

Fear sells. I usually question the motives of authors with these sort of predictions. Usually stuff like this has a please subscribe to my news letter for just $199.99. If you order now I will send you a bunch of other crap I wrote in five minutes and call each brochure a book-- just for you. I will also bomb your email with 5 emails a day just to make sure you don't feel as used as you are. Really there is a whole market out there like that.

FrenchStache

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2016, 07:47:35 AM »
Lastly, Kiyosaki is in the business of monetizing his words. If he's to do that, he almost has to take extreme positions. He doesn't even have to believe what he is saying. Of course he could be correct. And, to his credit, he seems to be giving a time frame for his doom scenario.

+1

Fear sells. I usually question the motives of authors with these sort of predictions. Usually stuff like this has a please subscribe to my news letter for just $199.99. If you order now I will send you a bunch of other crap I wrote in five minutes and call each brochure a book-- just for you. I will also bomb your email with 5 emails a day just to make sure you don't feel as used as you are. Really there is a whole market out there like that.

That's what I was about to say. I bet he is selling a program to show you how to avoid these pitfalls. I like his rich dad poor dad book. Like a lot of people the book probably sparked me into learning about entrepreneurship and personnal finance. But the rest of his books and programs strategies are too dangerous.  He doesn't inspire trust in my opinion. The small money blogs and entrepreneurs out there are such a breath of fresh air compared to these so called gurus.

AlmstRtrd

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2016, 08:11:09 AM »
I knew I was missing the point of Rich Dad Poor Dad when I realized that I could identify with the poor dad! The rich dad I didn't like so much even if he did have more money. I guess I am just hopelessly middle class.

Livewell

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2016, 09:24:41 AM »
Imported deflation from the EU is a much more likely scenario, if a recession is coming.  That is a low probability event in medium term IMO.

Most likely scenario is continued muddle through until Hilary and dem led senate (thanks Donald!) can push through long overdue infrastructure spending.

Meantime led the gold bugs fulfill their misguided fate.

Marus

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2016, 10:08:22 AM »
I'd be very skeptical of anything Kiyosaki says.  He's not an economist and it seems to me that his primary talent is getting people to buy his motivational snake-oil.   

I'll admit I don't know a ton about him though.  Does he have any track record of making accurate financial predictions?

Peter Parker

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2016, 10:25:39 AM »
I'd be very skeptical of anything Kiyosaki says.  He's not an economist and it seems to me that his primary talent is getting people to buy his motivational snake-oil.   

I'll admit I don't know a ton about him though.  Does he have any track record of making accurate financial predictions?

He said he called the 2007 downturn...Said it's on Youtube/his site.  I didn't check it.

He says to buy gold/silver, but then he said he is buying more and more rentals.  It just seemed like a stream of conscientiousness to me.....

GuitarStv

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2016, 10:31:22 AM »
I'd be very skeptical of anything Kiyosaki says.  He's not an economist and it seems to me that his primary talent is getting people to buy his motivational snake-oil.   

I'll admit I don't know a ton about him though.  Does he have any track record of making accurate financial predictions?

Kiyosaki lied about his military service.  He lied throughout the rich dad poor dad book about his personal experiences.  Some of his advice is illegal, and a lot of it is bad.  Ugh.  Trusting him is a bad idea.  A good summary:

http://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-real-estate-investment-blog/61651011-john-t-reeds-analysis-of-robert-t-kiyosakis-book-rich-dad-poor-dad-part-1

Tigerpine

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2016, 10:34:12 AM »
When talking about predicting the 2007 downturn, he's probably referring to this.

Indexer

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2016, 10:43:17 AM »
It would stop the current sanctioned creation of money. Most people don't realize the bank lends $9 for ever $1 they have. They lend and charge interest for money that doesn't exist and it's totally legal. If I did that it would be called counterfeit

They don't teach this in high school. That is on purpose. The one thing that commands so much of your life is almost never discussed--- why is that? Because the establishment has been taking advantage of the people for a long time. They charge interest for money that doesn't exist and they force you to invest by creating inflation. The whole thing is a sham and it's morally reprehensible

I think you might be simplifying this to the point it is distorted.

The transfer of money is how the economy functions. This is true for spending money or bank loans.

When you deposit $100 at the bank they don't turn around and loan out $900. Every bank would have a mass negative net worth and be insolvent. In reality the bank might loan out $90 of the $100 you deposited. The person who borrowed that $90 spends it, let's say on a house. The builder then deposits that $90 at their bank. Their bank then loans out $81.  This is how the economy can turn that $100 deposit into $900 of effective money. However, keep in mind the same is also true(to a lesser extent) if the builder spent the money instead of depositing it. If the builder spent that $90 on wages to its workers, and then those workers spent the money on hot dogs, and then the hot dog stands spent the money on bread, and the bread company paid the money to their employees...  By the end of the year your $100 deposit has been loaned, spent, spent again, deposited, loaned out again, spent again, etc. etc. etc. until by the end of the year it has had the economic impact of $900. Individuals & businesses had to report that $900 on their taxes, some of that $900 was counted towards GDP, and that $900 got spent heating up consumption which leads to demand which leads to inflation.

This is why the Fed uses interest rates to heat up or cool down the economy. Lower rates = more borrowing and more spending. Higher rates = less borrowing and less spending. Special note here:  the interest rates don't just affect the lending/borrowing, they also affect saving VS spending since saving is a lot more enticing when your bank account pays 6% instead of 0.01%.

If you created a new currency with a fixed number of units and no lending you could cut down on this effect of bank deposits->loans->more deposits->more loans. However you would likely have MORE problems with inflation and deflation. If people who were spending 100% of their income decided to keep 10% of their money sitting in cash(which can't be lent back out with the star trek credits) then 10% of money is no longer circulating through the economy. There is initially 10% less spending, money which doesn't make it into new paychecks so pay goes down 11%(negative compounding), which leads to less spending, so now spending is down 12%, which causes people to want to save even more especially since prices are dropping so things in the future will be cheaper, etc.  Deflation.  I used an extreme example, but you can see how it plays out. If you give up the ability to control interest rates you actually make yourself more vulnerable to inflation/deflation. If you look at the historical inflation information when we had the gold standard you will see what I mean. There were individual years with 20% inflation or 20% deflation.

Marus

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2016, 11:30:56 AM »
I'd be very skeptical of anything Kiyosaki says.  He's not an economist and it seems to me that his primary talent is getting people to buy his motivational snake-oil.   

I'll admit I don't know a ton about him though.  Does he have any track record of making accurate financial predictions?

Kiyosaki lied about his military service.  He lied throughout the rich dad poor dad book about his personal experiences.  Some of his advice is illegal, and a lot of it is bad.  Ugh.  Trusting him is a bad idea.  A good summary:

http://johntreed.com/blogs/john-t-reed-s-real-estate-investment-blog/61651011-john-t-reeds-analysis-of-robert-t-kiyosakis-book-rich-dad-poor-dad-part-1

Wow, great link!  I had no idea he was such a fraud.  Ugh.  I read the Cashflow Quadrant back in college and thought it was kind of inspirational but so vapid that it wasn't really worth my time. 

I'm a little disappointed that RPF gave him a platform to spread his BS though.  Is this a case where Josh just didn't do enough research before the show?  Bringing on fraudsters is a really quick way to lose credibility with your audience imo (I've seen this happen with the Joe Rogan Experience and the Tim Ferriss show too).     

Peter Parker

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2016, 12:09:11 PM »
  I'm a little disappointed that RPF gave him a platform to spread his BS though.  Is this a case where Josh just didn't do enough research before the show?  Bringing on fraudsters is a really quick way to lose credibility with your audience imo (I've seen this happen with the Joe Rogan Experience and the Tim Ferriss show too).     

Sometimes I wonder about Josh...He seemed to agree with what he said--but it may have been that he was a little intimidated by him and didn't want to push back.  I know it's called "Radical" Personal Finance, but some of Josh's advice seems to come from an immature perspective--maybe it's just because I'm an old fart.

soccerluvof4

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2016, 12:11:10 PM »
He found his way to make a buck by selling fear.

ambimammular

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Re: Robert Kiyosaki: Mr. Doom and Gloom--You Agree?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2016, 07:19:17 PM »
Kiyosaki's process of extreme leveraging parallels with the US's extreme deficit spending, which he condemns. The whole thing made me queasy.

But it did push DH and I to start working on the efficiency over our garage and try out landlording. So the fear had a net positive effect for me. (shrug)