Author Topic: Where to invest for retirement.  (Read 5505 times)

tophdna

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Where to invest for retirement.
« on: August 23, 2016, 01:59:47 PM »
Hello all. I currently work for my state government. I have a pension plan already in place. That being said, I have decided to start investing with betterment. I so far have put in 1000 dollars.

I have been reading MMM and see that I should really take advantage of my state's deferred compensation plan. My employer will match what I invest up to a certain amount (depending on my years of service). I definitely want to take advantage of that but I have a few questions.

My investment at Betterment is a Roth IRA.I looked at the potential investments for my deferred comp plan. Their automatic decision for me (if I don't know what to choose) is:

Blackrock LifePath Index 2050 Fund J.
https://www.blackrock.com/investing/products/227845/blackrock-lifepath-index-2050-portfolioinst-cl-fund

My paperwork says: "The investments in the target date funds will gradually shift from more aggressive to more conservative as the target date approaches. The funds are designed to provide an age-appropriate mix of long-term appreciation and capital preservation and are adjusted based on the number of years left until the fundsí target date."

So what I really want to know is. Should I stop investing with Betterment and throw all my money into the DCP (it will be matched up to a certain amount by my employer)? (am I able to roll my Betterment over into it?) Is this plan they offer a good one? If I were to keep both, is my max contribution per year still only $5,500 total between the two accounts?

I was thinking if I do decide to go with the DCP, I should maybe only put in what my employer matches. Do any of you have any insight for me? Thank you for your time.

-Confused investor

nereo

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #1 on: August 23, 2016, 02:37:26 PM »
Quote
So what I really want to know is. Should I stop investing with Betterment and throw all my money into the DCP (it will be matched up to a certain amount by my employer)? (am I able to roll my Betterment over into it?) Is this plan they offer a good one? If I were to keep both, is my max contribution per year still only $5,500 total between the two accounts?

Because your DCP offers a match it will give you the best return on your investment. The expense ratio is pretty good - though not quite as good as Vanguard's Target Date Funds (which are similar investments).  It's a perfectly fine plan to be enrolled in, but whether it is the "right" plan for you depends on your individual needs risk tolerances, timeline, etc.  Only oyu can decide for sure.
THe maximum you can contribute to your IRA is $5500, but that is seperate from what you can contribute to your DCP.  If possible, I'd contribute to both each year.

Contribute at least enough to get the full match on your DCP.  Then max out your IRA (either ROTH or traditional, depending on your tax situation).

seattlecyclone

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2016, 02:38:20 PM »
Betterment is...not great. It's a lot better than a traditional financial "advisor" who will put you in expensive funds and take 1% of your money every year, but that's about all I can say in its favor. Managing your own investments need not be hard. Setting up a three-fund portfolio is dead simple and doesn't require sending a percentage of your money to a robo-advisor every year.

But before you even think about setting up your own accounts, max out the tax-advantaged options through your employer. That target date fund doesn't look bad, and your plan might have some even better options as well.

Interest Compound

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #3 on: August 23, 2016, 05:53:07 PM »
Want easy investing? I'd recommend one of two options:

1. "I want Vanguard's experts to do everything for me. I'll just tell them my age and they'll put it in the appropriate Target Retirement Fund"

2. "I want Vanguard's experts to do everything for me. I'll just tell them how much risk I want, and they'll put it in the appropriate LifeStrategy Fund"

You'll save hundreds of thousands of dollars over your investment horizon vs Betterment. I'm with SeattleCyclone on this one regarding Betterment. The fact that these are money-loosing startups pushing hard on marketing to gain exponential growth would keep me from putting my money there. Here's a post from a recent thread on it:



This seems like an appropriate place for this article.

http://www.economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21677245-growth-firms-selling-computer-generated-financial-advice-slowing-does-not

Robo-advisors see slower growth, and probably have trouble being profitable.


In my opinion this is the biggest risk with giving one of these tech startups your money. If they go under, or if their VC investors decide they aren't making enough money and they increase their fees, you're left with one of two choices:

1. Sell everything and pay a steep capital gains taxes.

2. Move the entire 10-20 fund portfolio they put your money in, over to another broker like Vanguard, and be stuck manually managing those 10-20 funds for the rest of your life.

Considering these robo-advisors were made to be a simple choice, making things easy for the financially-illiterate...and considering the failure rate for tech startups, it just doesn't seem like a wise move. Especially when Vanguard's version has all the same simplicity, for half the cost.

Definitely agree. Even if I was ok with the fee (which I think is silly for what they do, but not too bad) and the dubious utility of TLH over time, the fact that these are money-loosing startups pushing hard on marketing to gain exponential growth would keep me from putty money there. Dealing with those 20 ETF on my own later sounds like a huge pain. And could be seen as a tactic to keep customers: "see how difficult this is, you can't leave us..."

Another choice quote [emphasis mine]:

Quote
But being very cheap means Betterment and Wealthfront need lots of assets to turn a profit. Their AUM of roughly $2.9 billion each, accumulated largely in the past two years, delivers revenues of $7m or so a year. That is not enough to sustain around 100 staff each as well as hefty marketing budgets. Total costs are likely to be $40m-50m a year, according to one fintech grandee (neither firm discloses the data).

Wow, really puts things into focus. When a company starts making decisions which sound good for marketing, but make their customers worse-off (like Municipal bonds), that's a big warning flag. This begins to explain why.

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #4 on: August 23, 2016, 06:38:14 PM »
Betterment is...not great. It's a lot better than a traditional financial "advisor" who will put you in expensive funds and take 1% of your money every year, but that's about all I can say in its favor. Managing your own investments need not be hard. Setting up a three-fund portfolio is dead simple and doesn't require sending a percentage of your money to a robo-advisor every year.

But before you even think about setting up your own accounts, max out the tax-advantaged options through your employer. That target date fund doesn't look bad, and your plan might have some even better options as well.

Thanks seattlecyclone. I'm interested in rolling over my Betterment account to Vanguard. What do you think about rolling it all into VTSAX?

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2016, 06:52:04 PM »
Never mind. I read that VTSAX requires a 10,000 minimum investment. : /

Not sure I can roll this over yet as I only have $1,000.

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #6 on: August 23, 2016, 06:57:17 PM »
Vanguard Target Retirement funds have a $1000 minimum investment. This could be an option for you at a lower cost to invest than Betterment, and once your investment grows you can switch into individual funds at that time.

gggggg

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #7 on: August 23, 2016, 09:21:19 PM »
In addition to what badbear said, you could buy Vanguard VTI; it's an ETF version of VTSAX. You buy per share, so the buy in is much lower than the mutual fund.

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2016, 07:36:08 AM »
In addition to what badbear said, you could buy Vanguard VTI; it's an ETF version of VTSAX. You buy per share, so the buy in is much lower than the mutual fund.

So I have two options I'm looking at. I can just keep my investments in Betterment until I reach enough to get into VTSAX (or Vanguard Retirement Date Fund) or I could transfer it over to Vanguard VTI? Would anybody recommend utilizing Vanguard VTI over my portfolio at Betterment until I get enough to invest into VTSAX?

nereo

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2016, 08:28:27 AM »
In addition to what badbear said, you could buy Vanguard VTI; it's an ETF version of VTSAX. You buy per share, so the buy in is much lower than the mutual fund.

So I have two options I'm looking at. I can just keep my investments in Betterment until I reach enough to get into VTSAX (or Vanguard Retirement Date Fund) or I could transfer it over to Vanguard VTI? Would anybody recommend utilizing Vanguard VTI over my portfolio at Betterment until I get enough to invest into VTSAX?

Not exactly.  The VTSAX is Vanguard's Total Market Index ADmiral shares.... that "admiral" part means you get slightly lower expenses in exchange for having $10,000 invested.  However, you can invest in NON admiral funds for much less and still have very, very low fees (and when you hit the $10k mark you can have Vanguard transfer everything to the admiral shares)

For example, you can enroll in any of the Target Retirement Funds for $1,000 (examples: VTTSX, VFIFX, VFORX).  These will give you some bond exposure too.
Or you can enroll in the non-admiral SP500 index (VFINX) for $3k and still have an expense ratio of 0.16%

You can also buy shares of any of their funds as an ETF, you get the same basic thing, but instead of it being a fund they trade like individual shares for buying/selling.

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2016, 10:48:31 AM »
In addition to what badbear said, you could buy Vanguard VTI; it's an ETF version of VTSAX. You buy per share, so the buy in is much lower than the mutual fund.

So I have two options I'm looking at. I can just keep my investments in Betterment until I reach enough to get into VTSAX (or Vanguard Retirement Date Fund) or I could transfer it over to Vanguard VTI? Would anybody recommend utilizing Vanguard VTI over my portfolio at Betterment until I get enough to invest into VTSAX?

Not exactly.  The VTSAX is Vanguard's Total Market Index ADmiral shares.... that "admiral" part means you get slightly lower expenses in exchange for having $10,000 invested.  However, you can invest in NON admiral funds for much less and still have very, very low fees (and when you hit the $10k mark you can have Vanguard transfer everything to the admiral shares)

For example, you can enroll in any of the Target Retirement Funds for $1,000 (examples: VTTSX, VFIFX, VFORX).  These will give you some bond exposure too.
Or you can enroll in the non-admiral SP500 index (VFINX) for $3k and still have an expense ratio of 0.16%

You can also buy shares of any of their funds as an ETF, you get the same basic thing, but instead of it being a fund they trade like individual shares for buying/selling.

Thanks Nereo! That was very helpful. In your opinion (or anyone with knowledge of this that is reading through my forum post), Since my Betterment annual fees are 0.35%, it would definitely be cheaper to invest in one of the Target Retirement Funds (such as VTTSX, VFIFX, VFORX) at this point?

I don't have a problem moving everything to Vanguard right now. I've done plenty of reading and have found many recommend that very thing. I'm just not as well versed (at this moment) and I'm currently researching investing. I chose Betterment because it came highly recommended by some people I respect in the financial arena and it was a suitable option for right now as I learn about investing.

I'm looking at the Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Fund (VFIFX) which has fund feeds at 0.16%? To me, if your only looking at using Betterment or VFIFX. It's cheaper with the fees and therefore better in my opinion to just dump my money into VFIFX than Betterment?

I need to research about adjusting your portfolio etc....I chose Betterment because I know they do this for you.

Thanks for helping me guys. I know this topic has probably came up multiple times in these forums and other forums and I just need to do the research on my own. But I appreciate you taking the time help me out regardless.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2016, 10:50:13 AM by tophdna »

nereo

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2016, 11:41:00 AM »
In addition to what badbear said, you could buy Vanguard VTI; it's an ETF version of VTSAX. You buy per share, so the buy in is much lower than the mutual fund.

So I have two options I'm looking at. I can just keep my investments in Betterment until I reach enough to get into VTSAX (or Vanguard Retirement Date Fund) or I could transfer it over to Vanguard VTI? Would anybody recommend utilizing Vanguard VTI over my portfolio at Betterment until I get enough to invest into VTSAX?

Not exactly.  The VTSAX is Vanguard's Total Market Index ADmiral shares.... that "admiral" part means you get slightly lower expenses in exchange for having $10,000 invested.  However, you can invest in NON admiral funds for much less and still have very, very low fees (and when you hit the $10k mark you can have Vanguard transfer everything to the admiral shares)

For example, you can enroll in any of the Target Retirement Funds for $1,000 (examples: VTTSX, VFIFX, VFORX).  These will give you some bond exposure too.
Or you can enroll in the non-admiral SP500 index (VFINX) for $3k and still have an expense ratio of 0.16%

You can also buy shares of any of their funds as an ETF, you get the same basic thing, but instead of it being a fund they trade like individual shares for buying/selling.

Thanks Nereo! That was very helpful. In your opinion (or anyone with knowledge of this that is reading through my forum post), Since my Betterment annual fees are 0.35%, it would definitely be cheaper to invest in one of the Target Retirement Funds (such as VTTSX, VFIFX, VFORX) at this point?

I don't have a problem moving everything to Vanguard right now. I've done plenty of reading and have found many recommend that very thing. I'm just not as well versed (at this moment) and I'm currently researching investing. I chose Betterment because it came highly recommended by some people I respect in the financial arena and it was a suitable option for right now as I learn about investing.

I'm looking at the Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Fund (VFIFX) which has fund feeds at 0.16%? To me, if your only looking at using Betterment or VFIFX. It's cheaper with the fees and therefore better in my opinion to just dump my money into VFIFX than Betterment?
...

It's really up to you.  While fees definitely matter, especially over the long term (decades) and with very large balances ($100ks), I wouldn't get too caught up with the difference between a 0.35% fee and a 0.16%.  Both are fairly low.  Put another way, for every $1,000 invested, the 0.35% fee will cost you $3.50 while Vanguard will cost you $1.60, a difference of $1.90.

I like vanguard, and I have no experience with Betterment. If you invest in one of hte target date funds with Vanguard you will have a mix of bonds and stocks, with the stocks being split between US total market and international.  IN other words, you get a very diverse portfolio just by owning one single fund.  The fund rebalances itself.  As time goes on the fund will shift by owning more bonds and less stocks.  For example, the VTTSX has a 90/10 stock-to-bond ratio and is called the "Target Retirment 2060 Fund" meaning it's designed for your average investor who plans on retiring in their 60s at/around the year 2060 (44 years from now).  BY the time 2060 rolls around the same fund will be roughly 60/40 stocks to equities.  Make sense? 

As time goes on you can always shift and buy something more or less conservative.  Also, as soon as you have a few thousand$ you could decide to tailor your investments to your own style by just buying teh ratio of funds you want.  For example, you might decide you want 25% bonds, 25% large cap US, 25% large-cap internaional and 25% emerging markets.  You could do this by holding four index funds in equal amounts and rebalancing them periodically (say, every 6 months). Or you could decide that the Target Date fund has everything you already need and just stick with a one-fund, simple-as-pie formula.  It's up to you.

Since you are going down that road, you really ought to fill out your own Investor Policy Statement.  It will guide you into determining what your goals are and help oyu decide what kind of investment(s) you want to be in.  Once you set your IPS, follow it!

hope that was helpful you to
~n~

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #12 on: August 25, 2016, 08:23:30 AM »
Great information. Thanks guys!

I want to start investing in my company's deferred comp plan to the point that they match. The plan is BlackRock LifePath Index 2050 Fund J.

I'm having difficulty finding information online about the fund. The best site I think I found was:

https://www.blackrock.com/investing/products/227823/

I was wanting to see if you guys thought this was a good fund to contribute to (definitely to what my employer matches...but maybe more?)

seattlecyclone

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #13 on: August 25, 2016, 08:30:26 AM »
Looks like a decent enough fund. 0.20% expense ratio, which is slightly higher than Vanguard's target date funds but not outrageous.

What are the other options in the plan?

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #14 on: August 25, 2016, 08:57:24 AM »
https://louisianadcpretire.gwrs.com/wrFundOverview.do?accu=LouisianaWR&groupID=98228-01&db=pnp

here is the list. I'm interested in your thought/opinions on best if you have any.

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #15 on: August 25, 2016, 01:47:10 PM »
It looks like in your plan the LifePath Index 2050 Fund J has an expense ratio of 0.17%, which is pretty low. It's about the same as the Vanguard Target-Date funds. The asset allocation is pretty different, though--it looks like they hold a total of ~15% in domestic and international REITs (real estate) funds. This may or may not be desirable for you.

The Black Rock index funds you have available are not as cheap as Vanguard, but they're still fairly cheap. Take a look at the Gross Expense Ratios on those. BlackRock Total Stock Market Index K, which is basically an equivalent to VTSAX, is 0.16% (vs 0.05% for VTSAX).

I see that there is a "TD Ameritrade SDB Securities" option, which is a self-directed brokerage. You could buy any fund you want in there, including any Vanguard fund. You might want to talk to the plan administrator about what if any additional costs there are in using that option (fees per trade, for example).

You asked earlier about total contribution limits:
Quote
If I were to keep both, is my max contribution per year still only $5,500 total between the two accounts?

Your total contribution to Roth and Traditional IRA accounts is $5,500 per year. Contributions to a defined contribution plan (like a 401k or the like) have a separate limit for your individual contributions of $18,000 if you are under 50 years old. Contributions made by the employer (like their match) don't count towards the limit. You can contribute the max to both an IRA and your defined contribution plan if you have the resources to do so.

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2016, 02:02:24 PM »
Reading through you plan highlights, it looks the the Self-Directed Brokerage (SDB) has a $60/yr fee to use it and you still have to keep $2,500 in the "core plan", so probably one of the BlackRock funds. Using the SDB isn't worth that $60 fee until you have a lot of money in the plan. For example, to save that $60 in fund fees by holding VTSAX (ER 0.05%) vs the BlackRock Total Stock Market Index (ER 0.16%), you would need to have $60 / (0.16% - 0.05%) = $54,545 invested in the SDB. So it might be something to consider years from now, but won't be worth it until you overcome the annual fee.

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2016, 02:26:33 PM »
The fees for the whole plan are explained here:
https://louisianadcpretire.gwrs.com/preLoginContentLink.do?accu=LouisianaWR&specificBundle=preLogin&contentUrl=prelogin.aboutYourPlan.fees

Depending on how much you have in the plan, participation costs a minimum of $10/yr up to a maximum of $90/yr if you have more than $50,000 invested in the plan. In my opinion it's totally worth it to get that extra tax-advantaged space, but the difference in costs suggests that it would be optimal to prioritize contributions like this:

DCP to the % to get your full match -> Max out Roth or Traditional IRA -> Max DCP

You are lucky to have access to fairly low cost and diverse funds in your plan. Some people are stuck with ~1% ER or higher funds.

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #18 on: August 26, 2016, 08:18:42 AM »
So I noticed with my Betterment portfolio I currently hold 1.25 shares of VTI. However, with Vanguard I can only purchase whole shares of the ETF. Why can Betterment purchase fractional shares?

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #19 on: August 26, 2016, 09:19:31 AM »
Some brokers offer fractional shares of ETFs. I think that on the back end the broker purchases whole shares and designates part of them as yours. Since Betterment and the like use the same basket of ETFs for everyone they can do this pretty cheaply, but there is additional recorder-keeping to be done. If you invest through a Vanguard Brokerage account, they will allow you to reinvest dividends and capital gains distributions to purchase fractional shares of their ETFs. With Vanguard mutual funds you can always purchase fractional shares as long as you meet the fund minimums.

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2016, 09:40:05 AM »
Thanks badbear! I just mailed all the transfer information to Vanguard (required). So it's prob going to be awhile before I see the transfer from Betterment to Vanguard. I did go ahead and send over $200 dollars to my Settlement Fund because I wanted to purchase one share of VTI (at the time was 111.77).

My goal was to send over $100/month to Vanguard (like I currently do with Betterment). But I guess depending on the cost of the VTI share, I'm going to have money sitting in the settlement account, until next month where there will be enough funds to purchase another share of VTI. :(

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2016, 09:47:31 AM »
Once you get to $10k of VTI you can sell and buy VTSAX if you like. I like the simplicity of mutual funds, not having to deal with bid-ask spreads and being able to buy fractional shares at NAV for the day. But in the long run, whether or not a small cash position is invested now or a month later will not make much of a difference.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 10:13:56 AM by badbear »

nereo

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2016, 09:49:07 AM »
Thanks badbear! I just mailed all the transfer information to Vanguard (required). So it's prob going to be awhile before I see the transfer from Betterment to Vanguard. I did go ahead and send over $200 dollars to my Settlement Fund because I wanted to purchase one share of VTI (at the time was 111.77).


Just a head's up, my biggest criticism of Vanguard is that they're sometimes slow to do transfers and during the process they give very little info online other than "transfer: in progress". Others have reported the same on this forum. Your transfer could take between 1 and 4 weeks.  If you call they'll give you more information, but that's kind of a pain.

First world problems, eh?
Best
~n~

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2016, 10:18:47 AM »
Yeah, I've already gotten a little taste of that Nereo. I actually can't buy that VTI share until September 2nd (or so Vanguard says).

I'm going to start putting all my monthly deposits into VTI (so as often as I can). Of course, I'm planning on upping how much goes in per month, so I can maximize my annual contribution. I was reading though, that once I finally do decide to move over to VTSAX, I'll have to sell the VTI shares of course to purchase the VTSAX and therefore, pay taxes on the capital gains, etc.... Kind of bummed out about that, but much smarter people than me on here recommend to do that very thing.

Once I get 3,000 dollars I plan to transfer to VTSMX and then just dump money into that until I get 10,000 and then finally transfer that to VTSAX. Does that sound ok?

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2016, 10:23:26 AM »
Once I get 3,000 dollars I plan to transfer to VTSMX and then just dump money into that until I get 10,000 and then finally transfer that to VTSAX. Does that sound ok?

That's what I would do.

Didn't you say your Betterment account was a Roth IRA? You won't pay any capital gains in an IRA.

nereo

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #25 on: August 26, 2016, 10:32:13 AM »
Yeah, I've already gotten a little taste of that Nereo. I actually can't buy that VTI share until September 2nd (or so Vanguard says).

I'm going to start putting all my monthly deposits into VTI (so as often as I can). Of course, I'm planning on upping how much goes in per month, so I can maximize my annual contribution. I was reading though, that once I finally do decide to move over to VTSAX, I'll have to sell the VTI shares of course to purchase the VTSAX and therefore, pay taxes on the capital gains, etc.... Kind of bummed out about that, but much smarter people than me on here recommend to do that very thing.

Capitol gains on ~$3,000 worth of investments are likely to be incredibly small.  How much depends on how much the market goes up and how long you hold them (they are less if held for 1 year, and could be 0 depending on your tax bracket and the gain/loss) - but in all likelihood you're talking $0 - 20.  Don't sweat it.  If it's for your IRA account you won't pay any taxes as long as its a transfer and Vanguard never issues you a cheque (though even then there are ways around it even then, provided you re-invest the same amount within a 60 day time period into an eligible account).

Quote
Once I get 3,000 dollars I plan to transfer to VTSMX and then just dump money into that until I get 10,000 and then finally transfer that to VTSAX. Does that sound ok?
That sounds exactly like what I'd do.  Wait until the balance is over $10k and then call up Vanguard and ask them to transfer the entire balance to VTSAX (or do it yourself online).  It will take <10min once you get there.  You won't pay taxes on this because it's different classes of shares in the same fund (thanks badbear for pointing that out).

In the meantime, I highly recommend setting up automatic investments every pay period, and challenging yourself to increase them whenever you can. Later, rinse, repeat, retire.
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 10:47:19 AM by nereo »

badbear

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #26 on: August 26, 2016, 10:39:56 AM »
Also note that in case you are actually investing in a taxable brokerage account, converting from VTSMX to VTSAX would not be a taxable event, as they are just separate share classes of the same fund.

TheAnonOne

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #27 on: August 26, 2016, 11:37:40 AM »
Also note that in case you are actually investing in a taxable brokerage account, converting from VTSMX to VTSAX would not be a taxable event, as they are just separate share classes of the same fund.

For a few accounts I had to do that (basically just a button click on the website) IRA's that could only hit 5500 Y1 for both DW and myself.

No taxes, even in my taxable account.


On a separate note VTSMX is still a 3k minimum. Your probably fine just saving up to 3k and then putting it in VTSMX without having to deal with all the transferring on an admittedly trivial amount of money.

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #28 on: August 26, 2016, 11:57:21 AM »
Thanks guys! You've been a great help!

tophdna

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Re: Where to invest for retirement.
« Reply #29 on: August 30, 2016, 07:55:36 AM »
Ok guys, I'm still waiting for the transfer of my roth from Betterment to Vanguard. However, I did transfer some money just to purchase one share of VTI. I'm curious, how long until you actually see ETF share present in your portfolio (Vanguard balances and holdings)?