Author Topic: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market  (Read 1270 times)

morninglightmountain

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REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« on: April 27, 2023, 06:48:20 AM »
Hi all,
I recently sold my house for a 2-year stint abroad, deciding against being an international landlord.  I got some nice cash out of the sale, but don't want to invest in stocks.  I already have a 401K (40% of net worth) and a brokerage account with ETFs (20% of nw).  I also have a small % in crypto.  This cash from equity is the remaining 35% or so.

Aside from diversification, I'm concerned about the housing market increasing over the next couple years (regardless of whether or not that actually happens), and want to hedge.  I'm interested in REITs and starting to do my research, and definitely want to avoid anything with exposure to commercial RE.  Things like Fidelity's FPRO (ETF) are a complete black box. 

Does anyone have REIT recommendations that have a lot of SFHs?  Preferably in the Western US, but I imagine that's too specific.

SilentC

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #1 on: April 27, 2023, 07:33:44 AM »
INVH and AMH.  If you want multi-family west coast exposure ESS.

ChpBstrd

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2023, 10:34:36 AM »
Investing in residential REITs would leave you exposed to a 2008-type event, which is looking more likely by the day. More importantly, these REITs are also facing the need to refinance low-yielding assets at high interest rates. EQR, for example, last reported a return on assets of 2.62%. As their bonds and loans come due, they will need to refinance those assets in the 6% range.

Even more importantly than that, the value of an REIT does not necessarily have anything to do with the value of housing. E.g. EQR is selling at the same price it sold for in 2018, even though the S&PCase-Shiller home index went from 198.5 in March 2018 to 293.17 in March 2023.

What if you spun around your house hedging hypothesis like this:

If there is NOT a housing correction, house prices will go up.
If house prices go up, mortgage-backed securities will hold their value.
If mortgage-backed securities hold their value, banks and mREITs will be OK.

So what you're really hedging against is the scenario where banks and mREITs do OK. You're looking for an investment that will pay off if banks and mREITs do OK, but which limits your losses, and which has close to a 2 year horizon.

I looked into the math of using options on NLY to hedge. They have expirations as far out as January 2025 right now. In either a long call or a bull put spread strategy, you're probably putting more money at risk than you'd like to risk.

E.g. Leveraged mortgage REIT NLY is selling for $19.16 right now. One bull put strategy I looked at with strikes at 20 and 22 would (at a scale of 950 spreads) pay out $150k in the event of things going OK. But it would lose a net $40k if things didn't go OK and NLY remained below $20/share (smaller losses if the price is between 20 and 21.58 at expiration). Could you stomach a $40k loss? Maybe that's still a good hedge because if things go OK you'll need that extra $150k and if things don't go OK you'll be buying the house for a lot cheaper anyway.

Of course, betting on NLY has the same problem as betting on EQR: The price of the REIT is not connected to the price of the home you'll buy. NLY has been falling since 2011, and we know what house prices did in that timeframe. The odds of the above hedge losing money must be multiplied by the risk of divergence between NLY's price and house prices.

Now NLY is holding many of those sub-4% mortgages people on this forum brag about, and facing refinancing costs around 10%. Like EQR, NLY has lots of reasons to keep doing badly even if the economy nails a soft landing and house prices continue to appreciate.

So there's a good case for just investing in a portfolio you can hold through whatever happens, with the best risk-adjusted returns you can find. In most years, such a portfolio outruns housing appreciation anyway. We've just had our expectations skewed by massive increases over the past few years of low interest rate mortgages.

Paper Chaser

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2023, 10:45:31 AM »
12 month CDs are paying over 5% with zero risk. 24 month cds are in the 4.5-5% range. Why expose those funds to any risk at all?

chasesfish

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2023, 03:22:55 PM »
I've looked hard at the residential REITs...

The only people they make money for is management.

A 3.1% yield on leveraged exposure to the housing market seems like a mediocre risk/return profile.

morninglightmountain

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2023, 09:31:29 AM »
Thanks for the responses!  Learning more about REITs, I'm disappointed in the weak correlations with housing prices. 

SilentC

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2023, 11:27:09 AM »
Investing in residential REITs would leave you exposed to a 2008-type event, which is looking more likely by the day. More importantly, these REITs are also facing the need to refinance low-yielding assets at high interest rates. EQR, for example, last reported a return on assets of 2.62%. As their bonds and loans come due, they will need to refinance those assets in the 6% range.

Even more importantly than that, the value of an REIT does not necessarily have anything to do with the value of housing. E.g. EQR is selling at the same price it sold for in 2018, even though the S&PCase-Shiller home index went from 198.5 in March 2018 to 293.17 in March 2023.

What if you spun around your house hedging hypothesis like this:

If there is NOT a housing correction, house prices will go up.
If house prices go up, mortgage-backed securities will hold their value.
If mortgage-backed securities hold their value, banks and mREITs will be OK.

So what you're really hedging against is the scenario where banks and mREITs do OK. You're looking for an investment that will pay off if banks and mREITs do OK, but which limits your losses, and which has close to a 2 year horizon.

I looked into the math of using options on NLY to hedge. They have expirations as far out as January 2025 right now. In either a long call or a bull put spread strategy, you're probably putting more money at risk than you'd like to risk.

E.g. Leveraged mortgage REIT NLY is selling for $19.16 right now. One bull put strategy I looked at with strikes at 20 and 22 would (at a scale of 950 spreads) pay out $150k in the event of things going OK. But it would lose a net $40k if things didn't go OK and NLY remained below $20/share (smaller losses if the price is between 20 and 21.58 at expiration). Could you stomach a $40k loss? Maybe that's still a good hedge because if things go OK you'll need that extra $150k and if things don't go OK you'll be buying the house for a lot cheaper anyway.

Of course, betting on NLY has the same problem as betting on EQR: The price of the REIT is not connected to the price of the home you'll buy. NLY has been falling since 2011, and we know what house prices did in that timeframe. The odds of the above hedge losing money must be multiplied by the risk of divergence between NLY's price and house prices.

Now NLY is holding many of those sub-4% mortgages people on this forum brag about, and facing refinancing costs around 10%. Like EQR, NLY has lots of reasons to keep doing badly even if the economy nails a soft landing and house prices continue to appreciate.

So there's a good case for just investing in a portfolio you can hold through whatever happens, with the best risk-adjusted returns you can find. In most years, such a portfolio outruns housing appreciation anyway. We've just had our expectations skewed by massive increases over the past few years of low interest rate mortgages.

I wouldn’t use NLY to hedge real estate values.  They own agency mortgages and it’s really more of a spread to treasuries game there where the biggest determinant of the spread is the refinancing option value.  NLY could do great in a scenario of higher for longer rates with reducing rate volatility while home prices probably grind consistently lower against that backdrop.

morninglightmountain

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2023, 12:17:57 PM »
So it seems like REITs are more trying to correlate with rental incomes, which may even be inversely correlated to housing prices, especially with increasing costs of debt.

I agree that just putting it in the highest-yield CD I can get may be a good option.

But if there companies, an index, or a mutual fund I can buy call options for (thanks for the suggestion of NLY - I'll look into it), that may be the best hedging strategy.  Any other suggestions for call options?

SilentC

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2023, 01:21:48 PM »
Honestly a good shorter term hedge would be going long 30 year zero coupon treasuries… if long rates fall you will make a killing on the bonds to help offset people going nuts again about houses because they can get a 5% mortgage.  If rates move higher that will kill your treasuries but home prices probably grind down. 

morninglightmountain

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2023, 03:32:40 AM »
Another issue is that any investments I make are taxable, unlike cap gains from selling my house.  CDs seem like the overall best answer, but those will get our marginal tax rate.

ChpBstrd

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2023, 07:02:32 AM »
Honestly a good shorter term hedge would be going long 30 year zero coupon treasuries… if long rates fall you will make a killing on the bonds to help offset people going nuts again about houses because they can get a 5% mortgage.  If rates move higher that will kill your treasuries but home prices probably grind down.
I like this idea too. There is a downside though... if long-duration interest rates rise from here, funds like ZROZ will get crushed. I know that's hard to imagine, but sometimes the market can only do what seems to be impossible (i.e. move in the direction that's not already priced in).

Maybe buy a call on ZROZ or use a protective put?

Finances_With_Purpose

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Re: REITs to keep exposure in US housing market
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2023, 03:06:15 PM »
12 month CDs are paying over 5% with zero risk. 24 month cds are in the 4.5-5% range. Why expose those funds to any risk at all?

This.  Sounds like you heard and learned about the many disadvantages of REITS, especially over that timeframe.