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smallfrymoney

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REDACTED
« on: June 18, 2015, 10:18:59 AM »
[*** Moderator Note:]

 The original title of this post was "Everest Wealth Management Accused of Fraud".

It contained only the following three links to public news releases about Everest Wealth Management:

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Press/2015/061815.html

http://www.oag.state.md.us/Securities/Actions/2015/osc_everest_061715.pdf

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-md-frosh-everest-20150618-story.html

It was removed by the original poster after legal pressure was applied to that person via a lawsuit from Everest. The case is 1:15-cv-02539-JFM in the Maryland District court. I have attached a copy of the complaint to this message (a 409KB PDF).

As part of this lawsuit, I also received a subpoena from the Everest attorneys asking me to reveal anything I knew about this user "smallfrymoney".

I want the record to show that this person DID remove this content on April 13th. I have re-posted the links here in my own comment because they are public, non-defamatory information and are key to the discussion below.
 
** End Moderator Note **]
« Last Edit: April 16, 2016, 08:09:56 AM by MMM »

iamlindoro

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2015, 10:26:57 AM »
In before Cease and Desist.

iamlindoro

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2015, 10:29:57 AM »
This is public information. I offer no commentary on this subject.

Nor I.  My comment was offered tongue in cheek, and is satire.  The above comment should not be taken as an endorsement or an indictment of EWM, and does not represent the opinions of this site, its members, myself, or the directors and officers of IamlindoroCorp, Inc. (tm).

;)

Eric

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2015, 10:38:22 AM »
Oh man, that's too bad.

sol

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2015, 10:38:38 AM »
Are the previous forum threads discussing these charlatans still available, or did their legal threats against MMM succeed in scrubbing all of that discussion from the internet?

iamlindoro

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2015, 10:41:44 AM »
Are the previous forum threads discussing these charlatans still available, or did their legal threats against MMM succeed in scrubbing all of that discussion from the internet?

Think the "fresh start" thread (which is itself somewhat sanitized) is all that remains.

sol

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2015, 10:55:50 AM »
Think the "fresh start" thread (which is itself somewhat sanitized) is all that remains.

That's a shame, I thought there was a lot of thoughtful commentary in that thread about blended investment/insurance products and the different types of deceptive advertising that these companies can use to separate people from their money.

I just remember being really disgusted by the EWM commercials, which everyone here seemed to agree were egregious misrepresentations of their actual products and services, and then even more disgusted that the firm hired a shill to infiltrate the forum and pose as a new member, and then even more disgusted when they started filing legal broadsides against MMM for hosting a forum where private citizens were discussing their corporate offerings and practices, as if Pete himself was somehow responsible for our opinions.

By the time that "fresh start" thread rolled around, I was so fed up with the whole thing that I kind of gave up, which in retrospect is probably exactly what the company wanted us to do.  Having that thread full of people documenting their BS come up as the first Google search result for their name was a real problem for them.  Sounds like they successfully stifled the consumer outrage by getting it deleted?

frugalnacho

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2015, 11:08:18 AM »
In before Cease and Desist.

LOL, I just shot milk out of my nose.  And I wasn't even drinking milk!

forummm

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #8 on: June 18, 2015, 11:12:07 AM »
In before Cease and Desist.

LOL, I just shot milk out of my nose.  And I wasn't even drinking milk!

It must take a lot of work to wring it out of that epic 'stashe of yours.

brooklynguy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2015, 11:25:09 AM »
By the time that "fresh start" thread rolled around, I was so fed up with the whole thing that I kind of gave up, which in retrospect is probably exactly what the company wanted us to do.  Having that thread full of people documenting their BS come up as the first Google search result for their name was a real problem for them.  Sounds like they successfully stifled the consumer outrage by getting it deleted?

The tendency for informed voices to "give up" and stop speaking is exactly why internet discussion boards usually break down as efficient marketplaces of ideas, except it usually happens for the less nefarious reason that the loudest voices simply drown out the most informed.  This forum stands as a shining exception to that general rule.  The fact that it took a concerted effort of corporate strong-arm tactics to stifle informed opinion here is actually a testament to the strength of this forum (which isn't to say we shouldn't strive for it to be even stronger).

sol

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #10 on: June 18, 2015, 11:44:30 AM »
The fact that it took a concerted effort of corporate strong-arm tactics to stifle informed opinion here is actually a testament to the strength of this forum

I think "corporate strong arm" might be giving them too much credit.  This is like four sleazy guys from Jersey who got together to try to fleece some old ladies out of their pension money, not JP Morgan Chase threatening the treasury department.

Legal threats are easy to send, even when wholly unjustified.   MMM was new to blogging and maybe overly sensitive to such things, but even he quickly determined that Everest Wealth Management didn't have a leg to stand on, and was just trying to suppress negative public reaction to their questionable business practices.

I'm inclined to believe that one of the great benefits of the internet is that it allows the public to offer real time feedback to companies, supporting the good one and calling out the bad ones.  We, as a community, called out a bad one. 

Too bad, Phil Rousseaux and friends.  You acted like a sleazeballs then, and new court filings seem to suggest you haven't changed your ways.  I'm absolutely certain that you'll have read this thread by tomorrow, so feel free to chime in with your commentary or thoughts about your new pending legal actions.  You even already have an MMM account to use!

forummm

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2015, 01:11:09 PM »

skyrefuge

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2015, 01:48:11 PM »
The PDF is a pretty good read. It's basically a backdoor look into the tricks and tools of sleazy investment advisors. It continually drives home a message that EWM/EIA's motivation was not to make money for their clients, but to simply gather as much investment money from clients as possible (thus maximizing their fees), through any means necessary. I'm broadly aware that this is the reason most money managers exist, but it's a bit chilling to be reminded of it so starkly.

Perhaps my favorite bit was the $500 "cold feet" fee they added in their contracts for prospective clients who, after initially agreeing to invest with EWM/EIA, changed their minds and backed out before funding their account. So they could still make money even in the case where the client's previous broker convinced them to stay and not move their assets. Or, I dunno, if the client did a Google search for "Everest Wealth Management" and saw some flashing red lights on a forum somewhere....  They mention the case of a particular prospective client who got hit with a $1000 invoice for backing out 2 days after signing her initial agreement. After some back-and-forth (from that client's son, speaking on behalf of his mother), EWM relented and waived the fee, but only if she gave back the champagne that was given to her as a new client signing gift.

I think every "How to Choose an Investment Advisor' article should start with: "#1) Do they hand out champagne? If so, run like hell."

Another funny bit is that several of the charges seem to have arisen not through malice (though there was plenty of that) but through basic laziness and incompetence. For one of their investment products, it sounds like they just basically copied the strategy and brochure from another investment company, and changed a few of the numbers and words (literally keeping the same drawings). That's bad enough on its own, but since they only changed *some* of the words and forgot to change others, that left a lot of inconsistencies in the brochure, and apparently a bunch of regulatory violations. Ha!
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 10:25:15 AM by skyrefuge »

kendallf

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2015, 08:33:30 PM »
That PDF *is* awesome.  I love the bit about the blank forms with the stolen stamps from Metlife, subsequently used to transfer money to his next couple of companies.  It appears he was fired or resigned from 4 financial companies before starting Everest.

arebelspy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2015, 11:58:56 AM »
Wow.  Who's taking bets on how long of jail time he'll get if he pleads out?
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brooklynguy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2015, 12:25:01 PM »
Wow.  Who's taking bets on how long of jail time he'll get if he pleads out?

Doesn't look like any criminal charges have been brought (at least not yet).

arebelspy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #16 on: June 19, 2015, 12:31:43 PM »
Wow.  Who's taking bets on how long of jail time he'll get if he pleads out?

Doesn't look like any criminal charges have been brought (at least not yet).

Good point.

I'm just speculating, for fun.  ;)

Anyone have any info on how often criminal charges are brought in cases of fraud like this, versus just revoking licenses/fines?

If he is charged, you think all of page 3 will be admissible going to his character?  Or hearsay?  I mean, I guess he probably wouldn't testify himself.  How many jobs do you have to resign from for bad behavior before no one will hire you and you have to start your own company?  Apparently at least 3.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 12:49:39 PM by arebelspy »
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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Cathy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2015, 01:04:39 PM »
...you think all of page 3 will be admissible going to his character?  Or hearsay?  I mean, I guess he probably wouldn't testify himself.  How many jobs do you have to resign from for bad behavior before no one will hire you and you have to start your own company?  Apparently at least 3.

The rules of evidence are complicated and vary by jurisdiction but here are some general propositions, which are relayed with the understanding that the rules may have exceptions in a given jurisdiction and therefore my brief summary should not be relied on:

Evidence that the accused is the sort of "bad person" likely to commit the crime charged is not relevant or admissible in a criminal proceeding, unless the defendant first offers evidence that he is a good person (whether through testifying himself or otherwise). If the defendant offers evidence that he is a good person, then the prosecution is permitted to rebut that. In general though, the fact that the defendant has been fired from a series of jobs is not relevant unless those facts are otherwise relevant to the trial (for example, the fact that defendant has a history of unsuccessfully working in the industry might be relevant to his motive). Note that motive is not an element of the offense, but it can still often be relevant.

If the defendant testifies, then the prosecution is permitted to ask questions whose answers would tend to suggest that the defendant's testimony should not be believed because the defendant is not credible. Evidence of general "bad character" is irrelevant; it is only admissible for impeachment to the extent that the evidence would suggest that he would tend to lie under oath. Evidence that he has been fired from several jobs is probably irrelevant even if he does testify, unless he was fired for reasons that have to do with dishonesty (and the Fidelity resignation might arguably relate to that, since the allegations in the Maryland securities proceeding say he was "not forthcoming" about the facts that led to his termination).

Evidence of past criminal convictions or regulatory sanctions are only relevant to the extent that either (1) they are proof of the underlying facts of those proceedings (in other words, the facts of the prior bad acts are themselves relevant to the current case), or (2) they suggest that the defendant is dishonest. However, because of the difficulty of determining whether a criminal conviction is relevant, most jurisdictions have general rules. For example, in the general rule in most US states is that evidence of past felonies are admissible to impugn credibility (but not to suggest that defendant probably committed the crime charged).

All potential evidence is subject to exclusion if the prejudicial value of admitting the evidence would outweigh the probative value.

There's no hearsay issue with the evidence of the terminations because (if admissible) the prosecution could call evidence from people who worked at those past employers to testify to the relevant facts.

Subject to a statute that says otherwise, the general rule for regulatory proceedings like the one discussed in OP is that the rules of evidence do not apply at all, and that any evidence whatsoever can be admitted, so long as the regulator considers it helpful.

Again, the rules do vary by jurisdiction, and this is just an attempt to state some general principles, but I don't know anything about specifically Maryland evidence law.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 09:14:08 PM by Cathy »

Rural

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2015, 01:32:43 PM »
It was just a matter of time, but it's nice to see that time arrive.

arebelspy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #19 on: June 19, 2015, 01:34:19 PM »
Subject to a statute that says otherwise, the general rule for regulatory proceedings like the one discussed in OP is that the rules of evidence do not apply at all, and that any evidence whatsoever can be admitted, so long as the regulator considers it helpful.

Thanks Cathy!

So correct me if I summarize this wrong, but pg 3 could be used if he requests a hearing for the stuff listed in the OP, but likely wouldn't be used if there were a criminal hearing and he didn't testify.
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Cathy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #20 on: June 19, 2015, 01:39:33 PM »
So correct me if I summarize this wrong, but pg 3 could be used if he requests a hearing for the stuff listed in the OP, but likely wouldn't be used if there were a criminal hearing and he didn't testify.

Well, as I mentioned, the other way it could potentially be relevant is if it directly relates to the crimes charged. For example, if he were charged with something related to stealing those pre-stamped transfer forms, the fact that he was fired from that job might constitute circumstantial evidence of his motive or desire to commit the crime. So, it would depend on what crimes he is charged with.

However, even if it is relevant, it will be excluded if the prejudicial effect outweighs the evidential value. What this means is that if the inadmissible purposes of the evidence are more striking than the admissible ones, then the evidence should not be admitted because the fact-finder might be tempted to use the evidence for inadmissible purposes. As in, the evidence of terminations might be admissible to prove motive, but not admissible to prove bad character -- and in that case, the jury might have a hard time separating out the different purposes that it can and can't be used for, so the judge could exclude it. However, that's an argument for his lawyers to make and we can't really predict how it would turn out.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2015, 01:51:59 PM by Cathy »

Full Beard

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #21 on: June 19, 2015, 04:34:01 PM »
Wow.  Who's taking bets on how long of jail time he'll get if he pleads out?

Doesn't look like any criminal charges have been brought (at least not yet).

Good point.

I'm just speculating, for fun.  ;)

Anyone have any info on how often criminal charges are brought in cases of fraud like this, versus just revoking licenses/fines?

If he is charged, you think all of page 3 will be admissible going to his character?  Or hearsay?  I mean, I guess he probably wouldn't testify himself.  How many jobs do you have to resign from for bad behavior before no one will hire you and you have to start your own company?  Apparently at least 3.

I'm not sure how often charges are brought, but there is a TV show on CNBC called American Greed, and there are several seasons worth of episodes.  So maybe we'll hear all about EWM on a future American Greed episode.

FBN

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2015, 11:00:16 AM »
I live in the Maryland area where Everest Wealth Management runs its tv commercials and radio shows. I am also a licensed insurance agent and am very educated on annuities, the laws that govern their marketing, and the sales practices that are used to sell them. This situation is sad because annuities are wonderful products if sold correctly for the right client scenario. These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap which will cause the general public to mistrust all financial professionals with a broad brush that is undeserved. I will not comment publicly on my opinion of whether Everest is in violation of securities laws and unethical practices but I will say that the Maryland attorney general does not frivolously file these types of actions without just cause.

This recalls a recent case in Maryland of a popular estate planning attorney who also had a radio show for over 30 years in Baltimore. The radio show was a marketing method to get prospects to come into his office and get their estate planning affairs in order by creating various estate planning trusts, powers of attorney, etc. Nothing wrong with that until the attorney crossed the line and used a client's trust money for his own benefit. Of course he professed his innocence right up to his being disbarred by the state.

arebelspy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2015, 11:31:16 AM »
These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
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FBN

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2015, 11:40:17 AM »
These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)

I agree with you, some annuities are very bad for most clients (variable annuities with high expense fees). Other annuities are excellent when used in the correct scenario.

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #25 on: June 21, 2015, 11:42:44 AM »
I live in the Maryland area where Everest Wealth Management runs its tv commercials and radio shows. I am also a licensed insurance agent and am very educated on annuities, the laws that govern their marketing, and the sales practices that are used to sell them. This situation is sad because annuities are wonderful products if sold correctly for the right client scenario.
There's a reason the ads for annuities are very similar to the ads for pharmaceuticals: they prey on the older folks' fear to push products to the widest audience possible. To the sophisticated investor looking in, of course the whole industry looks shady.

Good riddance.

arebelspy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #26 on: June 21, 2015, 12:26:48 PM »

These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)

I agree with you, some annuities are very bad for most clients (variable annuities with high expense fees). Other annuities are excellent when used in the correct scenario.

Sure. Those are such the rare exception though that I'd rather annuities have a blanket bad name and people to know it's the rare exception that they're good.  Similar situation to whole life insurance and similar products. For the most part, universal life insurance is terrible for people. They should have a bad rep, and only be used in the rare case by the very sophisticated investor that knows what they're doing, and understands the product they're buying.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

PeteD01

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #27 on: June 21, 2015, 01:39:13 PM »

These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)

I agree with you, some annuities are very bad for most clients (variable annuities with high expense fees). Other annuities are excellent when used in the correct scenario.

Sure. Those are such the rare exception though that I'd rather annuities have a blanket bad name and people to know it's the rare exception that they're good.  Similar situation to whole life insurance and similar products. For the most part, universal life insurance is terrible for people. They should have a bad rep, and only be used in the rare case by the very sophisticated investor that knows what they're doing, and understands the product they're buying.

And for anyone curious about decent income annuities one never hears on TV about:

Vanguard variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds
TIAA-CREF variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds in employer negotiated plans
TIAA Traditional fixed/participating annuity in employer negotiated plans
Fixed SPIA's from various insurance companies

The costs of these products can be used as a baseline for comparison with other products.

For accumulation purposes, annuities are hardly ever a good choice except under very special circumstances.






arebelspy

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #28 on: June 21, 2015, 01:54:49 PM »

These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)

I agree with you, some annuities are very bad for most clients (variable annuities with high expense fees). Other annuities are excellent when used in the correct scenario.

Sure. Those are such the rare exception though that I'd rather annuities have a blanket bad name and people to know it's the rare exception that they're good.  Similar situation to whole life insurance and similar products. For the most part, universal life insurance is terrible for people. They should have a bad rep, and only be used in the rare case by the very sophisticated investor that knows what they're doing, and understands the product they're buying.

And for anyone curious about decent income annuities one never hears on TV about:

Vanguard variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds
TIAA-CREF variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds in employer negotiated plans
TIAA Traditional fixed/participating annuity in employer negotiated plans
Fixed SPIA's from various insurance companies

The costs of these products can be used as a baseline for comparison with other products.

For accumulation purposes, annuities are hardly ever a good choice except under very special circumstances.

Great post Pete.  And to add to the last point: the use they are for (since not accumulation) is to annuitize some of your retirement  income (often to set a spending "floor") for longevity risk.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

FBN

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2015, 02:06:10 PM »

These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)

I agree with you, some annuities are very bad for most clients (variable annuities with high expense fees). Other annuities are excellent when used in the correct scenario.

Sure. Those are such the rare exception though that I'd rather annuities have a blanket bad name and people to know it's the rare exception that they're good.  Similar situation to whole life insurance and similar products. For the most part, universal life insurance is terrible for people. They should have a bad rep, and only be used in the rare case by the very sophisticated investor that knows what they're doing, and understands the product they're buying.

And for anyone curious about decent income annuities one never hears on TV about:

Vanguard variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds
TIAA-CREF variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds in employer negotiated plans
TIAA Traditional fixed/participating annuity in employer negotiated plans
Fixed SPIA's from various insurance companies

The costs of these products can be used as a baseline for comparison with other products.

For accumulation purposes, annuities are hardly ever a good choice except under very special circumstances.

Can you point me to a link on the Vanguard and TIAA-CREF variable SPIAs. I know what a SPIA is but a variable SPIA I am not familiar with. Thanks

PeteD01

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2015, 04:17:40 PM »

These charges will once again give annuities and financial advisers a bad rap

I hope so.  I mean, based on their merits the vast majority are pretty terrible for clients (and great for advisers), so the more negativity they get, the better.  ;)

I agree with you, some annuities are very bad for most clients (variable annuities with high expense fees). Other annuities are excellent when used in the correct scenario.

Sure. Those are such the rare exception though that I'd rather annuities have a blanket bad name and people to know it's the rare exception that they're good.  Similar situation to whole life insurance and similar products. For the most part, universal life insurance is terrible for people. They should have a bad rep, and only be used in the rare case by the very sophisticated investor that knows what they're doing, and understands the product they're buying.

And for anyone curious about decent income annuities one never hears on TV about:

Vanguard variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds
TIAA-CREF variable SPIA's, after tax and qualified funds in employer negotiated plans
TIAA Traditional fixed/participating annuity in employer negotiated plans
Fixed SPIA's from various insurance companies

The costs of these products can be used as a baseline for comparison with other products.

For accumulation purposes, annuities are hardly ever a good choice except under very special circumstances.

Can you point me to a link on the Vanguard and TIAA-CREF variable SPIAs. I know what a SPIA is but a variable SPIA I am not familiar with. Thanks

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/annuities/lifetimeincome?Type=f

https://www.tiaa-cref.org/public/pdf/SPIA_Brochure_A12183.pdf

No commission and, in addition to the mortality issues, great for survivors and seniors who can't deal with complicated withdrawal strategies.





FBN

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2015, 06:06:15 PM »

[/quote]

https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/annuities/lifetimeincome?Type=f

https://www.tiaa-cref.org/public/pdf/SPIA_Brochure_A12183.pdf

No commission and, in addition to the mortality issues, great for survivors and seniors who can't deal with complicated withdrawal strategies.
[/quote]

From Vanguard's website:  "Effective September 1, 2010, Vanguard Lifetime Income Program annuities are no longer available for purchase from Vanguard."



PeteD01

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Re: Everest Wealth Management accused of Fraud
« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2015, 09:10:42 PM »

That then leaves TIAA-CREF, to the best of my knowledge, as the last company to offer these annuities.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2015, 10:07:02 PM by PeteD01 »