Author Topic: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids  (Read 1872 times)

Kevin Aster Tin Obin

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real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« on: December 12, 2024, 02:40:02 PM »
Thinking to start 529 plan for kids who are 15 years away from college age.  State 529 gives 10,000 deduction off state fed and state taxes. $3k of tax savings on 10k.

Or else keep paying down the 6.25% mortgage on the highest interest investment property loan with possibility of selling the property when they hit college age, or they could manage it, move into it, or maybe college will be free or less important by then.

529 saves $3000 in taxes this year.  Paying down the mortgage only saves $625 this year, and it a business tax deduction. 

other thoughts or analysis on 529 or not?

thank you

MrGreen

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2024, 08:05:04 PM »
Thinking to start 529 plan for kids who are 15 years away from college age.  State 529 gives 10,000 deduction off state fed and state taxes. $3k of tax savings on 10k.

Or else keep paying down the 6.25% mortgage on the highest interest investment property loan with possibility of selling the property when they hit college age, or they could manage it, move into it, or maybe college will be free or less important by then.

529 saves $3000 in taxes this year.  Paying down the mortgage only saves $625 this year, and it a business tax deduction. 

other thoughts or analysis on 529 or not?

thank you
You'd potentially have significant capital gains and depreciation recapture to pay when selling the house. No taxes on the 529 gains if used for education. The RE has more possibilities but also more pitfalls. I guess it depends on how simple and liquid you want those funds to be.

secondcor521

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2024, 09:44:36 PM »
If there is any chance of financial aid, 529s are, and will likely still be in 15 years, treated better than investment real estate.

(Financial aid can sometimes work out for FIRE types depending on the timing and cash flows of FIRE and college.)

Kevin Aster Tin Obin

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2024, 06:42:25 AM »
Should caveat plan to FIRE 10 years before they are college age, so would have W2 income near zero, maybe best to sell rental properties sooner after FIRE, so cap gains taxes are lower, and show less income for FAFSA.  Need to learn about 529 impacts to fafsa and financial aid. 

Its so far away, planning with lots of variables makes it hard to create probable estimates. 

cpa cat

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2024, 06:45:30 AM »
Thinking to start 529 plan for kids who are 15 years away from college age.  State 529 gives 10,000 deduction off state fed and state taxes. $3k of tax savings on 10k.

This is not true. There is no federal deduction for a 529 plan.

Kevin Aster Tin Obin

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2024, 07:13:22 AM »

[/quote]

This is not true. There is no federal deduction for a 529 plan.
[/quote]

Thanks for clarifying. That important point. So only saving a few percent at state level. Crossed it with Treasury I bonds which offer tax free interest at fed level.

ChpBstrd

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2024, 07:26:18 AM »
Investing Stuff
These vehicles are also very different investments. The 529 will offer stocks and bonds, whereas the mortgage paydown will offer a risk-free 6.25%. The 529 has some vulnerability to inflation, but the real estate is thought to be an indirect inflation hedge. Then there are liability, tax, and lumpiness of cash flows implications, among other differences.

We can take some factors off the table if we can answer a question: Will you own the real estate regardless of whether you pay down the mortgage or not?

If so, you will still be exposed to the investment risk/return and inflation benefits of RE either way. Through this lens, paying down the mortgage versus doing the 529 comes down to a choice between market returns and a sure 6.25%. Already we can see it would probably not make investment sense to fund the 529 with a large allocation to bonds yielding 4-5%.

What happens in a few years if you get the opportunity to refinance the properties at 4-5% after paying down most of the mortgage when it was 6.25%? Do you borrow extra and pile money into the 529 at that point?

And is it reasonable to expect an 18 year old to be capable of managing an investment property and earning sufficient cash flow to pay for college? Do they skip a semester if the house needs a roof?

Human Behavior Stuff
Finally, there is the issue of ownership. Paying down the mortgage increases your net worth, while funding the 529 increases your kids' net worth. This is a bigger deal than it seems when one's kids are toddlers.

There may arise conflicts in the teen years where the money you would have gifted to them at age 3 will not be gifted at age 18. What if you disagree with their sexual practices, drug and alcohol use, or their new religion? What if they are simply spendthrifts? What if by this time they've been stealing, lying, and betraying you for years? What if they want to spend all the money to get an art school degree, or major in choir with a minor in philosophy at an expensive private school?

Is it your intent to leave open the possibility of withholding educational funding as a means of exerting influence later, or of not wasting the money if the kids are going to waste it? The stage you set today will map out these future conflicts. In general, will you try to direct their late-teen lives or will you draw a strict boundary between your duties as a parent and their responsibilities as adults who will be leading their own lives (and experiencing most of the consequences)? For a toddler parent, it's an easy call: You're in charge of everything. For the parent of a high school senior, there's much more nuance and the nagging awareness that it's time to let go.

Even worse, the kids may not feel like they can afford to pursue a path without the 529 because they have zero net worth and would have to beg for free money from you. Thus they decide not to do med school because they don't want to either go into debt or show up hat in hand at their parents' doorstep every semester when the bill is due. In this tragic scenario, the money would be there but the customs of ownership and the shame of accepting gifts would prevent its gainful use. The kid tries their hand at selling cars instead of getting a law degree, or becomes a veterinary tech when they'd otherwise have become a doctor. They prioritize getting on their own two feet financially at the expense of a different possible future.

Even if you only want an extra house so that you can rent it to the kid at a discount, or free, think about the conflicts that will arise when they trash the place, or bring in a smoker as a roommate, or adopt 6 cats. I'd never want to rent to a family member or friend. Can you evict your child and throw their stuff on the street corner without destroying your most prized relationship? Either gift them the house or don't. 

Kevin Aster Tin Obin

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2024, 05:44:50 PM »
Love some cheap bastard perspective! 

Been down the road of family BS renting real estate in recent years.  No thanks.  Also went to college and took out loans so know what it’s like to start a career at negative 100k net worth. No problem getting the 18 yr old to have skin in the game. So yea I’ll keep the rental property separate. Probably pay down high interest and sell it once leave the day job.

Scandium

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2024, 08:14:53 AM »
Finally, there is the issue of ownership. Paying down the mortgage increases your net worth, while funding the 529 increases your kids' net worth. This is a bigger deal than it seems when one's kids are toddlers.

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here? Are you referring to withholding funds in the context of the house, or the 529? Or either? I don't see a big difference there in the two methods.
The 529 is does not strictly belong to my kids, it's still mine. I have full control of it, and they don't gain any access at any point, 18 years old or otherwise. They're listed as beneficiaries, but that can be changed by a click on the website, and AFAIK only means they're the ones who can receive the funds for their education. It does not entail that they will have any control over it. I can choose to give or withhold 529 funds to either of my kids, or say that I'd like to keep it for my own or my grandkid's education instead.

roomtempmayo

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Re: real estate invesments instead of 529 plan for young kids
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2024, 08:43:59 AM »
One other benefit to the 529 is that you can easily vary the risk/volatility by changing the investment type as your child gets older and closer to drawing on the funds. 

A house is a single, material asset.  There's no easy way to limit the risk/volatility in its value as you get closer to needing to tap that value.  If it's an asset to sell in X years, it's inherently risky.

But if you think they're going to live in it so that you don't need to liquidate it, you're also foreclosing lots of possibilities for them.  You can't move the house to another city and live in it, if that's where they want to go to college.  And they couldn't live in the dorms because you made their housing choice years and years ago. 

The basic advantage to a 529 is that it's just money that can be exchanged easily for any variety of future goods.  That's a huge advantage when we don't really know who our kids will be.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!