Author Topic: Questions about fractional reserve banking!  (Read 19261 times)

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #50 on: November 14, 2013, 10:23:40 AM »
The fed is a cartel of private bank who participate in the system. It's a centralized, top down monopolized system on our currency. This their own words, people can deny it all they want. When the chair admits they aren't beholden to anyone but themselves it pretty obvious. But you guys believe what you want, enjoy yourselves.

These are exactly the cheap, half-true insinuations people are calling you out on. 

If you don't believe in the importance of a central bank that is as decoupled as possible from politics, it's hard to have a rational discussion of monetary policy or macroeconomics in general.

The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

They aren't beholden to anyone, that doesn't mean they don't participate in setting their agenda. That's just their excuse when try to avoid any audits or regulation by the will of the people.

I know, crazy to think that society should have a say in their currency.

CB

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #51 on: November 14, 2013, 10:44:14 AM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.

Seems that the "reality" you see conflicts with the reality that most of the rest of us see.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #52 on: November 14, 2013, 12:21:06 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.

Seems that the "reality" you see conflicts with the reality that most of the rest of us see.

Assuming a majority of opinion doesn't justify yours. Saying everyone else think so, so I am right, means nothing.

Are you saying that an institution with a monopoly, and the power the create money, would never use that to their advantage? A corporation does not act on its own self interests?

beltim

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #53 on: November 14, 2013, 12:22:25 PM »
Why don't you answer his questions?

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #54 on: November 14, 2013, 12:25:28 PM »
Why don't you answer his questions?

What am I not answering from him/her?
Will you ask they answer mine as well?

beltim

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #55 on: November 14, 2013, 12:29:51 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #56 on: November 14, 2013, 01:23:07 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

beltim

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #57 on: November 14, 2013, 01:31:44 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

Do you consider the federal judiciary to be "decoupled from politics?"  Or "politically ingrained?"

matchewed

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #58 on: November 14, 2013, 01:46:15 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

Actually there is some good correlation with general inflation and how independent the Federal Reserve is for a country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Federal_Reserve_System

Regardless of that why is it bad to have the President appoint and Congress approve who is on the Federal Reserve Board?

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #59 on: November 14, 2013, 03:03:58 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

Do you consider the federal judiciary to be "decoupled from politics?"  Or "politically ingrained?"

What does this have to do with the Federal Reserve system?

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #60 on: November 14, 2013, 03:06:03 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

Actually there is some good correlation with general inflation and how independent the Federal Reserve is for a country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Federal_Reserve_System

Regardless of that why is it bad to have the President appoint and Congress approve who is on the Federal Reserve Board?

That's a moot point. The problem is the system itself, not any leader or public face on that system.

grantmeaname

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #61 on: November 14, 2013, 03:14:24 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?

matchewed

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #62 on: November 14, 2013, 03:23:37 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

Actually there is some good correlation with general inflation and how independent the Federal Reserve is for a country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Federal_Reserve_System

Regardless of that why is it bad to have the President appoint and Congress approve who is on the Federal Reserve Board?

That's a moot point. The problem is the system itself, not any leader or public face on that system.

My point is that the system as an independent entity appointed by the government rather than run by the government shows that it lowers inflation, or perhaps is better at controlling inflation. Why is that a moot point when you've clearly stated that you have concerns that they are not accountable? Their lack of accountability (which is a bad statement, it is rather that their actions are independent of government input aside from who gets on the board) has a trend of keeping inflation low. Governments who have more involvement, a less independent Federal Reserve, and therefore more accountability tend to show worse control over inflation.

And I've demonstrated the system itself works, I never mentioned a leader or public face in any of my comment.

Again, why is it bad to have the President appoint and Congress approve who is on the Federal Reserve Board?

beltim

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #63 on: November 14, 2013, 03:24:32 PM »
Do you consider the federal judiciary to be "decoupled from politics?"  Or "politically ingrained?"

What does this have to do with the Federal Reserve system?

I don't really know what you mean by decoupled from politics, and I'm trying to see how you view it by analogy.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #64 on: November 14, 2013, 03:25:12 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?
He did? With a wiki link? wow.

matchewed

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #65 on: November 14, 2013, 03:31:52 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?
He did? With a wiki link? wow.

I did. Yes. I know.

Look at the graph on the right showing the correlation between independence and inflation rates. It's more information than ideological buzzwords.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2013, 03:35:11 PM »
The Fed is not decoupled from politics... furthest thing from it! That is the lack of reality I'm calling you all out on.

Are you referring to the Fed chair being appointed by the executive branch?  Despite that fact, plenty of Fed chairmen have taken very politically unpopular actions (e.g., Paul Volcker's disinflation was denounced by many in its time).  I'd be very curious to see good evidence (not conspiracy theories or ideas derived from rants on freerepublic) of political tampering in the Fed's decisions.


This one, specifically. 

If they don't answer your questions, then sure, I'll ask them to answer them.  But the last time they responded, they did answer your "Do you have any serious responses to what you think is "half true"?" question.

Ok, I thought was pretty self answering. Yes that is one example of how the Fed is in fact politically ingrained. The senate confirms that selection. The Fed is not decoupled from the political process. Despite that, there is no accountability. They are under the authority or regulation of it. They are not. They're an individual private organization. Greenspan flat out admitted this.

It's like Monsanto vs the farmers market.

Who am I to say how food should be made and what is healthy? They are the experts. No political sides should have power over Monsanto. Let them be the sole creator of all food, as they know what's best.

That is essentially what is said with unquestioning support of the Fed.

Actually there is some good correlation with general inflation and how independent the Federal Reserve is for a country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Structure_of_the_Federal_Reserve_System

Regardless of that why is it bad to have the President appoint and Congress approve who is on the Federal Reserve Board?

That's a moot point. The problem is the system itself, not any leader or public face on that system.

My point is that the system as an independent entity appointed by the government rather than run by the government shows that it lowers inflation, or perhaps is better at controlling inflation. Why is that a moot point when you've clearly stated that you have concerns that they are not accountable? Their lack of accountability (which is a bad statement, it is rather that their actions are independent of government input aside from who gets on the board) has a trend of keeping inflation low. Governments who have more involvement, a less independent Federal Reserve, and therefore more accountability tend to show worse control over inflation.
Example?
Quote
And I've demonstrated the system itself works, I never mentioned a leader or public face in any of my comment.
You posted a wiki link. There are lots of systems that "work". Monsanto works. That's doesn't mean it works on behalf of the people, or allows competition and transparency.
Quote
Again, why is it bad to have the President appoint and Congress approve who is on the Federal Reserve Board?
Again, that is a moot point, the problem is the system itself, not that packaging.

You don't see a problem with a private bank creating our currency and loaning it to us at interest? And the fact they artificially set interest rates? Does the housing bubble ring a bell?


Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2013, 03:37:27 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?
He did? With a wiki link? wow.

I did. Yes. I know.

Look at the graph on the right showing the correlation between independence and inflation rates. It's more information than ideological buzzwords.

Awesome, the fox has spoken. All is well in the hen house.

matchewed

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2013, 03:40:16 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?
He did? With a wiki link? wow.

I did. Yes. I know.

Look at the graph on the right showing the correlation between independence and inflation rates. It's more information than ideological buzzwords.

Awesome, the fox has spoken. All is well in the hen house.

You still haven't addressed the fact that independence and inflation rates have a strong correlation.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2013, 03:45:37 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?
He did? With a wiki link? wow.

I did. Yes. I know.

Look at the graph on the right showing the correlation between independence and inflation rates. It's more information than ideological buzzwords.

Awesome, the fox has spoken. All is well in the hen house.

You still haven't addressed the fact that independence and inflation rates have a strong correlation.

Correlation does not = causation. Besides, this issue is not "inflation" or some cherry picked data.

The issue is the system itself.

You still haven't address the housing bubble or any one of my question or issues I've raise. No on has spoken to any of them.

House bubble anyone? Fixing interest rates? Hello?

grantmeaname

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2013, 03:50:01 PM »
I don't have to answer you because foxsystems.

matchewed

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #71 on: November 14, 2013, 04:10:55 PM »
Even though he just demonstrated that the system works?
He did? With a wiki link? wow.

I did. Yes. I know.

Look at the graph on the right showing the correlation between independence and inflation rates. It's more information than ideological buzzwords.

Awesome, the fox has spoken. All is well in the hen house.

You still haven't addressed the fact that independence and inflation rates have a strong correlation.

Correlation does not = causation. Besides, this issue is not "inflation" or some cherry picked data.

The issue is the system itself.

Correlation may not equal causation but we're not talking about causes. We are in fact discussing the correlation. I've never claimed causation, just that the data shows that governments which use minimum oversight on their Federal Reserve systems often have lower interest rates, and that is evidence that less oversight on that system may lead to better monetary policies. Also why is it that the United States which has probably the least amount of oversight has traditionally some of the lowest interest rates? How else do you explain this? Do you have anything at all?

You can't decouple interest rates from inflation (interest rates are set by the Fed), so don't try to throw it out as if it's some obscure and irrelevant topic. And do you have any proof that my data is cherry picked or are you just throwing crap at the wall and hoping it sticks? Because if you have proof that there are countries that have low interest rates and have a large amount of oversight on their Federal Reserve then I'm all ears. Again if you're just ideologically opposed to all this then we're not actually having a discussion are we?

What is the issue with the system?

Quote
You still haven't address the housing bubble or any one of my question or issues I've raise. No on has spoken to any of them.

House bubble anyone? Fixing interest rates? Hello?
Fine.
Quote
You don't see a problem with a private bank creating our currency and loaning it to us at interest? And the fact they artificially set interest rates? Does the housing bubble ring a bell?

Their setting of the interest rates help drive various economic factors, so no I see no problem with that. And it isn't a private bank it is 12 banks, and no I don't have a problem with them controlling monetary policies because you haven't offered a viable alternative. Can you clarify what the Federal Reserve is responsible for in the housing bubble? Is it the low interest rates making the availability of credit possible? Is that perhaps an oversimplification of a complicated issue that had multiple "causes"?

What would you do instead? How do you prevent bank runs?

JohnGalt

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #72 on: November 14, 2013, 06:08:37 PM »
No amount of data will convince someone who is ideologically opposed to the Fed that it is a good thing.


grantmeaname

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #73 on: November 14, 2013, 06:09:13 PM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

CB

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #74 on: November 14, 2013, 06:10:17 PM »
Assuming a majority of opinion doesn't justify yours. Saying everyone else think so, so I am right, means nothing.

It's not a question of opinion.  You have been presented with data and provable objective statements but respond with empty responses like calling objective data "cherry picked" and bizarre jibes about farm animals.

Bank

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #75 on: November 15, 2013, 07:00:33 AM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amen.  Once I realize that a discussion I had thought was about facts and data is really the defense of someone's belief system, I lose interest.

footenote

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #76 on: November 15, 2013, 07:04:45 AM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amen.  Once I realize that a discussion I had thought was about facts and data is really the defense of someone's belief system, I lose interest.
+1. Because it's not a conversation that can go anywhere.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #77 on: November 15, 2013, 09:26:25 AM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amen.  Once I realize that a discussion I had thought was about facts and data is really the defense of someone's belief system, I lose interest.

You all are the one's clinging to a belief system. Talk about a religion of central planning, this is it. And beliefs like that are void of any reason, other than "It works - here's some chart, see?"

The Fed, a small group of private bankers, know how to drive the economy so well that they set the interest rates so low, facilitated lending, a massive housing bubble happened and all of the top banks got bailed out. Totally legit.

Defending or trying to rationalize that is a serious case of Stockholm system for central planning.



CB

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #78 on: November 15, 2013, 10:55:22 AM »
+1. Because it's not a conversation that can go anywhere.

Yes, that's quite apparent.  Don't know why I keep expecting rational discourse.

Bank

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #79 on: November 15, 2013, 11:05:06 AM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amen.  Once I realize that a discussion I had thought was about facts and data is really the defense of someone's belief system, I lose interest.

You all are the one's clinging to a belief system. Talk about a religion of central planning, this is it. And beliefs like that are void of any reason, other than "It works - here's some chart, see?"

The Fed, a small group of private bankers, know how to drive the economy so well that they set the interest rates so low, facilitated lending, a massive housing bubble happened and all of the top banks got bailed out. Totally legit.

Defending or trying to rationalize that is a serious case of Stockholm system for central planning.

See, here's where you could include some actual facts and analysis to rebut those pesky "charts" with actual data that have been presented to you. 

Here are some suggestions:  A chart showing the economic growth rates with a U.S. central monetary institution vs. periods without one (there have been periods where we didn't have one).  If you can show me that economic growth is higher without a central bank, we have the beginnings of a real discussion.  Second, you could show me data demonstrating that panics/recessions have been less severe and less frequent during periods in which there was no central monetary institution.  Or that, controlling for external factors, countries without a central monetary institution are more prosperous/less bubble prone/have less inequality than those that do.

Until then, feel free to rave away.  You won't get another response from me because, as I said before, I find this type of back and forth unproductive.

Mr.Macinstache

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #80 on: November 15, 2013, 12:55:43 PM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amen.  Once I realize that a discussion I had thought was about facts and data is really the defense of someone's belief system, I lose interest.

You all are the one's clinging to a belief system. Talk about a religion of central planning, this is it. And beliefs like that are void of any reason, other than "It works - here's some chart, see?"

The Fed, a small group of private bankers, know how to drive the economy so well that they set the interest rates so low, facilitated lending, a massive housing bubble happened and all of the top banks got bailed out. Totally legit.

Defending or trying to rationalize that is a serious case of Stockholm system for central planning.

See, here's where you could include some actual facts and analysis to rebut those pesky "charts" with actual data that have been presented to you. 

Here are some suggestions:  A chart showing the economic growth rates with a U.S. central monetary institution vs. periods without one (there have been periods where we didn't have one).  If you can show me that economic growth is higher without a central bank, we have the beginnings of a real discussion.  Second, you could show me data demonstrating that panics/recessions have been less severe and less frequent during periods in which there was no central monetary institution.  Or that, controlling for external factors, countries without a central monetary institution are more prosperous/less bubble prone/have less inequality than those that do.

Until then, feel free to rave away.  You won't get another response from me because, as I said before, I find this type of back and forth unproductive.

Do you need to be shown some data there actually was a housing crisis? Why don't you address that?

+1. Because it's not a conversation that can go anywhere.

Yes, that's quite apparent.  Don't know why I keep expecting rational discourse.

It's not going anywhere because you or anyone else refuse to recognize we had a massive housing bubble and trillion dollar bank bailout. I guess centrally planned crony capitalism is just a-OK. Got it.

CDP45

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #81 on: November 15, 2013, 03:15:11 PM »
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

Amen.  Once I realize that a discussion I had thought was about facts and data is really the defense of someone's belief system, I lose interest.

You all are the one's clinging to a belief system. Talk about a religion of central planning, this is it. And beliefs like that are void of any reason, other than "It works - here's some chart, see?"

The Fed, a small group of private bankers, know how to drive the economy so well that they set the interest rates so low, facilitated lending, a massive housing bubble happened and all of the top banks got bailed out. Totally legit.

Defending or trying to rationalize that is a serious case of Stockholm system for central planning.

See, here's where you could include some actual facts and analysis to rebut those pesky "charts" with actual data that have been presented to you. 

Here are some suggestions:  A chart showing the economic growth rates with a U.S. central monetary institution vs. periods without one (there have been periods where we didn't have one).  If you can show me that economic growth is higher without a central bank, we have the beginnings of a real discussion.  Second, you could show me data demonstrating that panics/recessions have been less severe and less frequent during periods in which there was no central monetary institution.  Or that, controlling for external factors, countries without a central monetary institution are more prosperous/less bubble prone/have less inequality than those that do.

Until then, feel free to rave away.  You won't get another response from me because, as I said before, I find this type of back and forth unproductive.

Do you have any evidence that any decade in American economic growth was greater than any decade period prior to December 23, 1913?  Plus even Bernanke accepts that the Federal Reserve caused the Great Depression, and it's obvious the Fed caused the Great Recession.

marty998

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #82 on: November 15, 2013, 05:02:26 PM »
I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread anymore but I would suggest if anyone here takes issue with the current system they should get themselves into the corridors of power (like perhaps Janet Yellen has worked all her life to do for example) so you can do something about.

Bitching on MMM forums is not going to change anything.


footenote

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #83 on: November 15, 2013, 05:27:37 PM »
I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread anymore but I would suggest if anyone here takes issue with the current system they should get themselves into the corridors of power (like perhaps Janet Yellen has worked all her life to do for example) so you can do something about.

Bitching on MMM forums is not going to change anything.
+1000

CDP45

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Re: Questions about fractional reserve banking!
« Reply #84 on: November 15, 2013, 06:41:22 PM »
I don't have anything constructive to add to this thread anymore but I would suggest if anyone here takes issue with the current system they should get themselves into the corridors of power (like perhaps Janet Yellen has worked all her life to do for example) so you can do something about.

Bitching on MMM forums is not going to change anything.

Yes, those who take issue with terrorism should join al qaeda. Can I get a +1000 up in here??

What I love so much about MMM is that he speaks truth that smashes the lies of the media, he bring clear sky to the fog of financial ignorance and helps to free people from the yoke of ignorance, consumerism, and debt. One day humanity will realize the evils of government banking and yet another scourge of the state will be lifted, but that day is not today...