Author Topic: PortfolioCharts: Assets  (Read 5945 times)

arebelspy

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PortfolioCharts: Assets
« on: January 25, 2016, 06:06:55 AM »
Yet another phenomenal piece and new tool by Tyler at PortfolioCharts.

Article with explanation: http://portfoliocharts.com/2016/01/25/how-to-build-a-portfolio-one-asset-at-a-time/
Tool: http://portfoliocharts.com/assets/

I chuckled at the nod to our DM/a priori story discussions at the end of it.  ;)

Worth playing around with, for fun and understanding.
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Eucalyptus

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2016, 06:13:39 AM »
Agree, very handy, noticed it today.

Quite the site, in total, this.

brooklynguy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2016, 08:58:17 AM »
Yet another phenomenal piece and new tool by Tyler at PortfolioCharts.

Indeed.  Thank you, Tyler, for your phenomenal work in continuing to improve and expand our arsenal of tools and resources.

Quote
I chuckled at the nod to our DM/a priori story discussions at the end of it.  ;)

Me too - it's the feedback loop described in the following comment from the DM thread in action:

As one of the largest and most active personal finance forums on the internet, I'm sure most bloggers in this niche peruse these boards for inspiration and guidance.  MMM included, obviously.  "Polling the people" is the primary purpose of forums.

Congratulations, all.  By virtue of your active participation here, you are helping define the tone and substance of a huge amount of related internet content.  Small groups changing the world, and all that.

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2016, 11:19:42 AM »
Thanks, guys.  :)  I'm glad you find it helpful.

The references to themes on the MMM forum should be no surprise.  The good questions and thought-provoking discussions here are the inspiration for many of my posts. 

dude

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2016, 12:26:08 PM »
Very cool.

dungoofed

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2016, 01:28:34 AM »
Wow.

PowerMustache

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2016, 01:57:01 AM »
What a great resource. Thank you Tyler!

AdrianC

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2016, 06:01:20 AM »
Thanks, guys.  :)  I'm glad you find it helpful.

The references to themes on the MMM forum should be no surprise.  The good questions and thought-provoking discussions here are the inspiration for many of my posts.

Very nice, Tyler.

For your 60/40 stocks/gold example I assume you are leaving out capital gains taxes. What would you get if you included a 15% tax rate in your annual rebalance?


Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2016, 07:07:47 AM »
Very nice, Tyler.

For your 60/40 stocks/gold example I assume you are leaving out capital gains taxes. What would you get if you included a 15% tax rate in your annual rebalance?

I wish it were that simple!  ;)

That's a very good question, and one I do not have an immediate answer for.  Yes, all calculations ignore taxes. 

Aside from the overhaul the spreadsheets would require (I tried, but it's not a quick change), there are practical reasons why it's difficult to generalize. 
1) The data I have is for total returns only, and I cannot separate dividends and interest from capital gains.
2) Accounting for cost basis in the calculations is non-trivial.
3) Gold is taxed differently than stocks and bonds, and varies even more by how it's held.
4) Tax-loss harvesting and other tax-mitigating strategies will change the results.
5) Throw in state taxes, tax brackets, deductions, and 44 years of ever-changing tax law and it gets... complicated.

So the calculations all apply for tax-deferred accounts, but in a taxable account YMMV.  Every investor needs to look at how their specific tax situation may impact their portfolio choice and plan accordingly.  Some portfolios may work better than others for different people. 

BTW, your question reminds me that I forgot to add the tax disclaimer to the new assets page.  Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 07:09:24 AM by Tyler »

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2016, 07:12:46 AM »
44 years of ever-changing tax law and it gets... complicated.

Heh, yeah.  Have fun with THAT project.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
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Seppia

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 04:34:47 PM »

Thanks, guys.  :)  I'm glad you find it helpful.

The references to themes on the MMM forum should be no surprise.  The good questions and thought-provoking discussions here are the inspiration for many of my posts.

Hello
Just wanted to say thanks for your awesome work.
Your site is nothing short of stunning, and I've been recommending it as much as I can to all my Italian fiends (I'm Italian).

MMM was the first to capture my interest and the one that's generally more accessible for all non-numbers people, but my nerdy side gets a 4-hour long "math boner" when I'm on your site and or the mad fientist's.

Thanks a ton and keep up the amazing work, I hope you('ll) make great money through your site, you totally deserve it.

AdrianC

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 09:11:07 PM »
So the calculations all apply for tax-deferred accounts, but in a taxable account YMMV.  Every investor needs to look at how their specific tax situation may impact their portfolio choice and plan accordingly.  Some portfolios may work better than others for different people. 

I bring it up because I expect most FIRE types have substantial assets in taxable accounts (ours is about 50/50), so tax efficiency is an important consideration when selecting the retirement portfolio mix.

Stock index ETFs are remarkably tax efficient. Rebalancing between asset classes results in cap gains. It might be that one portfolio works better within the tax free accounts and a very different portfolio works better in the taxable.

JZinCO

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2016, 10:02:19 PM »
Yes! PortfolioCharts is my favorite planning/study tool. The graphics take so much information and distill them into simple, beautiful charts.
 Glad to see more work being done on a regular basis

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2016, 10:57:51 PM »
It's always nice to get feedback so that you know when you're on the right track.  Thanks! 

@Seppia -- Thanks for spreading the word!  Even if the site never makes a dime, at least I can take pride in creating something helpful.  :)

@AdrianC -- A very good point.  I agree. 

@JZinCO -- Yeah, I may take breaks from time to time but I look forward to continuing to add new things in the future.  Let me know if you have any ideas, questions, or requests.

Also, any time you release a new tool of this scope there are bound to be a few mistakes and omissions.  If anyone spots one, please feel free to PM me.  I want the information to be as accurate as possible, and I appreciate having a community like this to fall back on.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2016, 05:16:23 PM by Tyler »

Eucalyptus

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2016, 05:43:01 PM »
Let me know if you have any ideas, questions, or requests.

One thing I thought of, after seeing your new Assetts section, was that it would be cool to be able to display those pixel graphs (not sure what you call them) for each chart side by side as the user wishes. That would be an easier way to see how things correlate (or don't).

Another idea I had last week when playing with your awesome toolset, was that it would be cool to be able to mess around with portfolio allocations, or say two at a time, side by side, and then display all the different outputs for that allocation on one page. Currently doing so I have a bunch of tabs open at once, and have to copy and paste my portfolio %s into each one, and flick between tabs to compare.

Just ideas, and you are the master of your own work, so you get to choose :-)

Thanks again Tyler :-)

JZinCO

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2016, 06:13:21 PM »
On that note, maybe being able to save a portfolio so you can open each tool and auto import the AA. Or conversely, put in a portfolio once and be able to select multiple tools' charts at once.

aspiringnomad

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2016, 07:50:51 PM »
Love it. Thanks, Tyler.

aperture

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2016, 10:24:46 PM »
Awesome site, love the tools. Thanks Tyler

-ap

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #18 on: May 07, 2019, 11:26:42 PM »
On that note, maybe being able to save a portfolio so you can open each tool and auto import the AA.

Bump.

It'd be cool if the "My Portfolio" tool remembered my portfolio, even if just via cookies.
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DadJokes

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2019, 07:21:19 AM »
Wow, that is amazing. Thanks for the bump.

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2019, 08:53:44 AM »
It'd be cool if the "My Portfolio" tool remembered my portfolio, even if just via cookies.

It's trickier than it sounds, as I'd have to rework how the entire site works to have the tools interact with logins and/or cookies.  I guess that's the downside of a mechanical engineer doing web development.  ;)

Good suggestion, though.  I have a few ideas, but I'm still playing with options.

GoCubsGo

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2019, 09:31:37 AM »
Really cool site, I'd donate to it if you had a donate button.  Just a thought.

Also, a quick question.  My portfolio is 39% large cap growth.  I don't see that as an asset class.  What would be a good proxy for that in the My Portfolio calculator?

Thanks for creating!

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2019, 11:57:39 AM »
Also, a quick question.  My portfolio is 39% large cap growth.  I don't see that as an asset class.  What would be a good proxy for that in the My Portfolio calculator?



He just removed that for (seeming) lack of use.

https://portfoliocharts.com/2019/05/07/new-approach-new-destinations/
Quote
So the first thing you may notice is that there are no more growth indices to choose from. Frankly they are not very popular in the asset allocation community and professional portfolios including them are quite rare. While I’m certainly open to bringing them back in the future based on user feedback, I do like that eliminating a bunch of little-used growth assets from the list makes a world of difference in helping the assets that remain become much easier to visually process.

That was posted yesterday.

But I'm sure he will note your feedback. :)
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arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2019, 11:58:54 AM »
It'd be cool if the "My Portfolio" tool remembered my portfolio, even if just via cookies.

It's trickier than it sounds, as I'd have to rework how the entire site works to have the tools interact with logins and/or cookies.  I guess that's the downside of a mechanical engineer doing web development.  ;)

Good suggestion, though.  I have a few ideas, but I'm still playing with options.

Can you do it via URL?

The way, for example, Networthify can store your various inputs and you can bookmark that:
http://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement

(Notice that will immediately redirect you to the default inputs, but you can update and the URL changes.)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
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GoCubsGo

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2019, 01:18:37 PM »
Thanks for the reply ARS, what are the odds that the first time I go to run "my portfolio" it was just removed the day before!  Not sure if I should play the lotto or watch out for falling pianos.

One of my 401k's is with Fidelity and a large chunk is in the Fidelity Contrafund (Morningstar Category-Large Growth).  It's been around since 1967:

"The Fidelity Contrafund (FCNTX) is the largest actively managed mutual fund in the world, with more than $134 billion in assets under management (AUM) as of Oct.19, 2018. It is among the most widely held funds by 401(k) plans and other retirement plans."

I'd assume a lot of people with 401ks or IRA's are with either Fidelity or Vanguard and at some point own(ed) one of their flagship Large Growth funds because they have a huge amount of assets under management. 

Just an observation

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2019, 09:23:24 PM »
Also, a quick question.  My portfolio is 39% large cap growth.  I don't see that as an asset class.  What would be a good proxy for that in the My Portfolio calculator?



He just removed that for (seeming) lack of use.

...

But I'm sure he will note your feedback. :)

Noted.  Look again.  :) 

I got tons of emails on the growth options the moment that post went out, and I learned a lot about how common they are out in the real world.  So I quickly fixed everything using a different interface in the prototype basket, and all of the growth options are back.  My goal is always to make the site as useful as possible, so thanks for the feedback! 
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 08:29:52 AM by Tyler »

dragoncar

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2019, 11:28:08 PM »
On that note, maybe being able to save a portfolio so you can open each tool and auto import the AA.

Bump.

It'd be cool if the "My Portfolio" tool remembered my portfolio, even if just via cookies.

You close your portfoliocharts tab?  I just keep it open all the time. 

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #27 on: May 09, 2019, 02:36:29 PM »
Can you do it via URL?

The way, for example, Networthify can store your various inputs and you can bookmark that:
http://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement

(Notice that will immediately redirect you to the default inputs, but you can update and the URL changes.)

I like that.

My coding skill is way more rudimentary than you might think as my expertise is in Excel rather than web development.  My inbox is open to suggestions, but be sure to ELI5.  ;)

You close your portfoliocharts tab?  I just keep it open all the time. 

This guy gets it.  :)
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 03:15:32 PM by Tyler »

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #28 on: May 09, 2019, 04:59:18 PM »
On that note, maybe being able to save a portfolio so you can open each tool and auto import the AA.

Bump.

It'd be cool if the "My Portfolio" tool remembered my portfolio, even if just via cookies.

You close your portfoliocharts tab?  I just keep it open all the time.
That's a start.

But then you have to be at your browser.

Next step: memorize all the outputs. Then you can just refresh your perpetually open tab once each January after the previous years' data is added and update your mental info.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
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dragoncar

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #29 on: May 09, 2019, 05:09:25 PM »
Can you do it via URL?

The way, for example, Networthify can store your various inputs and you can bookmark that:
http://networthify.com/calculator/earlyretirement

(Notice that will immediately redirect you to the default inputs, but you can update and the URL changes.)

I like that.

My coding skill is way more rudimentary than you might think as my expertise is in Excel rather than web development.  My inbox is open to suggestions, but be sure to ELI5.  ;)

You close your portfoliocharts tab?  I just keep it open all the time. 

This guy gets it.  :)

URL parameters were my bread and butter back in the 90s!  Really insecure but easy to parse.  Not sure if excel allows any parameter importation though?

Potentially unethical portfolio charts hack is just to save the excel file locally.  This might offend the author, who misses out on potential ad revenue from his hard work.  On the other hand, less server load.  I’ll delete this suggestion if asked
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 05:13:05 PM by dragoncar »

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2019, 09:18:25 PM »
Potentially unethical portfolio charts hack is just to save the excel file locally.  This might offend the author, who misses out on potential ad revenue from his hard work.  On the other hand, less server load.  I’ll delete this suggestion if asked

That's not a feature I advertise (I'd prefer to share the details via PM if you're interested), but it also doesn't offend me.  I'm not really into monetizing clicks anyway, and by downloading the spreadsheet you miss out on all the cool updates.  ;)


dragoncar

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2019, 10:41:29 PM »
Potentially unethical portfolio charts hack is just to save the excel file locally.  This might offend the author, who misses out on potential ad revenue from his hard work.  On the other hand, less server load.  I’ll delete this suggestion if asked

That's not a feature I advertise (I'd prefer to share the details via PM if you're interested), but it also doesn't offend me.  I'm not really into monetizing clicks anyway, and by downloading the spreadsheet you miss out on all the cool updates.  ;)

Plus the hidden logic bomb in your code that detects shenanigans and slightly reduces the reported SWR thereby making you work longer.  Yeah, I found that!

By the way, my serious suggestion for the lazy is to get a macro plugin for your browser and record a macro that opens the My Portfolio page and fills in your baseline portfolio.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 10:52:18 PM by dragoncar »

dragoncar

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #32 on: May 09, 2019, 10:54:55 PM »
On that note, maybe being able to save a portfolio so you can open each tool and auto import the AA.

Bump.

It'd be cool if the "My Portfolio" tool remembered my portfolio, even if just via cookies.

You close your portfoliocharts tab?  I just keep it open all the time.
That's a start.

But then you have to be at your browser.

Next step: memorize all the outputs. Then you can just refresh your perpetually open tab once each January after the previous years' data is added and update your mental info.

Me calculating my SWR after memorizing the return data for each asset:


Radagast

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #33 on: May 10, 2019, 10:12:57 PM »
Lookin good Tyler! It seemed like the calculators were progressively becoming more convoluted and harder to use and find, but recent updates have reversed that in a big way. Also, I really appreciate the addition of Japan.

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #34 on: May 11, 2019, 08:11:17 AM »
Hi Tyler: your website is AWESOME. All caps, bold, and with many thanks!

I loved being able to compare various portfolios, hone in on a few that I liked and then design my own Dream Portfolio. Sure beats the hell out of fantasy football 😁

Hmmm. A throw down the gauntlet challenge?

Anyway, thanks for this great tool.

Tyler

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #35 on: May 11, 2019, 11:47:43 AM »
@Radagast -- Yeah, balancing "full-featured" with "intuitive" is a tricky proposition that takes a lot of trial and error.  I'm happy you noticed the progress, as I've put a crazy amount of time into trying to figure that out.  And I'm also really excited about the Japan data, as studying portfolios from a Japanese perspective appears uniquely effective at highlighting how persistent USA bias even among the professional research community affects the way people think about investing. 

@Buffalo Chip -- Thanks!  That's exactly how I hoped people would use the site.  I love me some fantasy football, but I can guarantee the time you spend settling on a long-term portfolio will be a lot more profitable in the longrun.  :)
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 12:11:27 PM by Tyler »

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #36 on: May 11, 2019, 01:22:06 PM »
As long as one avoids the big temptation of constantly fiddling with their asset allocation, especially due to (whatever the most) recent market conditions (are).

The longer term look back and heat map should help there, hopefully.

I have made big changes in both my personal investment philosophies, and even beliefs, and my asset allocation in a practical sense due to Portfolio Charts.

It took years of using it and analysing the data and thinking about it to get me fully convinced, but I'm so on board now.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
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Buffalo Chip

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #37 on: May 12, 2019, 08:59:39 AM »
As long as one avoids the big temptation of constantly fiddling with their asset allocation, especially due to (whatever the most) recent market conditions (are).

The longer term look back and heat map should help there, hopefully.

I have made big changes in both my personal investment philosophies, and even beliefs, and my asset allocation in a practical sense due to Portfolio Charts.

It took years of using it and analysing the data and thinking about it to get me fully convinced, but I'm so on board now.

This is a fantastic tool. I’ve been spending some time playing with different allocations and I’ve got a few fantasy portfolios that beat the total stock market return with less volatility. Incredibly appealing to us perma-sceptics who have had a hard time accepting the mantra “buy the total stock market and forget it.”

I’d suggest making portfolio charts a sticky thread. I wonder what sort of fantasy portfolios will emerge that run contrary to the accepted TSM orthodoxy?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2019, 09:28:03 AM by Buffalo Chip »

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #38 on: May 12, 2019, 02:14:16 PM »
Which PortfolioCharts thread should be stickied? It's been around, and discussed, for years

I remember recommending it on a podcast I was interviewed on maybe 4 or 5 years ago.

The Asset Allocation I ended up with looks quite similar to the pinwheel portfolio (though I landed on it before Tyler posted the pinwheel post). 

The data mining charge is worrisome (in other words, SOME back tested portfolio would be best, and that's not a reason to think it will be best going forward), but I think there are more likely upsides to the diversified portfolio I've landed on than drawbacks. It took a long time to get there. We'll see. :)
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
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dragoncar

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2019, 04:19:40 PM »
Is there a “useful tools” thread that we could sticky with links to the tools? 

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2019, 05:40:13 PM »
Which PortfolioCharts thread should be stickied? It's been around, and discussed, for years

I remember recommending it on a podcast I was interviewed on maybe 4 or 5 years ago.

The Asset Allocation I ended up with looks quite similar to the pinwheel portfolio (though I landed on it before Tyler posted the pinwheel post). 

The data mining charge is worrisome (in other words, SOME back tested portfolio would be best, and that's not a reason to think it will be best going forward), but I think there are more likely upsides to the diversified portfolio I've landed on than drawbacks. It took a long time to get there. We'll see. :)

Although I’m sure it seems like a lifetime, I’ve only been here a short time 😁. This is all brand spankin’ new for some of us. I like dragoncar’s idea for an “awesome tools that are awesome in their awesomeness” thread.

As for the portfolios, the pinwheel and the Ivy were the two I looked at most closely before going off on my own tangent. I’ve run 15 different mixes and have gotten to a couple I really like. Of course past results don’t guarantee future performance. But it’s what we’ve got.

arebelspy

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Re: PortfolioCharts: Assets
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2019, 07:23:26 PM »
Mods are more than happy to sticky awesome threads people create.

If you want to create a cool tools resources thread, feel free, and PM me when it's sticky worthy. :)
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