The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Investor Alley => Topic started by: SelfMadeNJ on March 11, 2015, 07:15:55 PM
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Name Your Top 5 Largest Held Individual Stocks
1. Apple
2. Visa
3. Verizon
4. AT&T
5. J&J
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I have 30% of my money in ONE single stock - Knight Transportation (KNX). Risky? Of course. But risk isn't necessarily a bad thing.
The remaining 70% in a well diversified portfolio of index funds.
Domestic Equity
Foreign Equity
Real Estate
Treasury's
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1. BRK-B
2. IBKR
3. CBI
4. FAST
5. PBFX
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1. Chevron
2. N/A
3. N/A
4. N/A
5. N/A
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BRK/B
INTC
MMP
BPL
UPS
The last 3 are neck and neck and the ranking changes often. I also have a bond position which is similar size.
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1. BerkHathaway-B
2. McDonalds
3. Coca-Cola (should have bought Pepsi)
4. --------
5. --------
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1. BRK B (Berkshire Hathaway)
2. TGT (Target)
3. HP (Helmerich & Payne)
4. COP (ConocoPhillips)
5. T (AT&T)
Alas, no MMM.
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1.Visa
2. T
3. HBAN
4. VZ
5. BAC (yea yea I know)
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Only individual stock I have right now is QURE. 10% of portfolio is allocated to it but I'm only risking my standard 1%.
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Chipotle
Ulta Beauty
Skechers
Under Armour
Monster Beverage
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1. AAPL
2. RTN (Sold)
3. JNJ (Sold)
4. F (Sold)
5. MO (Sold)
Sold nearly all of my individual stocks last year when I was transitioning to index funds. Only AAPL is left, and only because I'm trying to figure out how to sell it without paying capital gains. My income is right on the edge of the 15%/25% cutoff.
EDIT: I'm glad I'm not the only person who thinks that T is an excellent buy right now. 6% yield makes it incredibly attractive to me. But, like I said, my days of picking are coming to an end.
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Apple
Exxon
Microsoft
Google
Berkshire Hathaway
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Apple
(A grand total of $16 worth of it, because I missed a dividend when I sold and that fraction of a share isn't worth the broker commission to liquidate.)
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Target
General Mills
General Electric
Chubb
BP
Letting the dividends collect while I look for a new addition to the portfolio. Not too many bargains out there right now.
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1. Pepsi.
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Apple
(A grand total of $16 worth of it, because I missed a dividend when I sold and that fraction of a share isn't worth the broker commission to liquidate.)
Your broker is a dick if they charge you a transaction fee on partials.
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Chipotle
Ulta Beauty
Skechers
Under Armour
Monster Beverage
You just buy those recently or have you owned them for years? If you held those in size during this bull market I'd like to invest in your fund Mr Lynch.
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MORL
CHKR
CPLP
MT
BDCL
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Chipotle
Ulta Beauty
Skechers
Under Armour
Monster Beverage
You just buy those recently or have you owned them for years? If you held those in size during this bull market I'd like to invest in your fund Mr Lynch.
There's only one Mr Lynch, and he used to work at Fidelity. I've had them for 2-3 years. That's why they are my largest holdings. Looks like Ulta is getting ready to gap up tomorrow.
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At the moment just these two:
AAPL (no plans to sell, approximately 10% of my portfolio and dropping)
MSFT (bought a little after the recent drop, 1% of portfolio)
Sold CMG late last year after several years.
Also make a couple smallish momentum trades per quarter through my Roth, 1-3% of my portfolio, for fun and experimentation.
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1. Stock in Company recently retired from
2. AAPL
3. F
4. COF
5. GPS
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Apple
(A grand total of $16 worth of it, because I missed a dividend when I sold and that fraction of a share isn't worth the broker commission to liquidate.)
Your broker is a dick if they charge you a transaction fee on partials.
It's Sharebuilder, so trades are $6.95, and I assume that applies to all trades (I haven't actually tried to sell my fraction of a share). It'd be nice if I could sell it for $0 commission, but I'm not too worried about it.
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1. NSC
2. COP
3. BNS
4. BBL
5. UL
I sold a bunch of positions last year to fund a down payment on a house. Since I have been accumulating again, and I am left with the above. Been buying quite a bit of oil and gas related this year.
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1. ADVC (Advant-e Corporation, Gone Dark - Yield of >5%)
2. ALJJ (ALJ Regional Holdings, PE 12)
3. RVP (Retractable Technologies, Mkt Cap ~100 million, owed ~300 million by Becton-Dickenson)
4. INTC (Intel: In taxable account, don't want to trigger taxes by selling)
5. FDVF (Fortune Industries, Private Company now relisted: trailing P/E ~5, deleveraging situation, sooo illiquid it hurts)
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I have a few shares in national companies, just for fun and some dividends. Extremely risk averse, I'm planning to own them "for ever":
1. Tomra Systems (recycling macines)
2. Gjensidige (insurance)
3. Farstad shipping
4. Norsk Hydro (aluminum)
5. Scana (steel)
Those are the only five I own single shares in. Plan is to buy one or two in Statoil, to be able to vote against oil sand production, and maybe something in Kongsberggruppen.
Had a few shares in Hurtigruten (cruise/rural transport), but I dropped them when they sold out to the UK.
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1. IEP (Carl Icahn's Investing company)
2. CVS
3. BLK (Blackrock)
4. DFS (Discover)
5. GILD (Gilead Sciences)
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1. AAPL - 82% gain since I bought in early 2013, when everybody and his brother was doom and gloom about AAPL; hey, I don't get to brag much about my (usually lousy) stock-picking skills
2. Shares of former company (just split off/sold into its own company)
3. SNE (Sony) - bought on a whim one day at 28.60, rode it down to 11,...things are looking up; will sell when it hits 30; no dividends, WHAT WAS I THINKING?!
4. JCP (JC Penney) - bought at 13; currently around 8; hey, I like an underdog.
5. N/A
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1. J&J
2. CSCO
3. GE
4. MO
5. KRFT
Equals about 20% of our portfolio (taxable/tax advantaged) with the rest in one more stock and index funds.
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80% of portfolio is in index funds. Five largest individual holdings are:
1. AAPL (doubled since I bought)
2. BAC (more than tripled since buying within a few cents of the low in 2011)
3. INTC (long-term hold that happened to have a nice run)
4. MA
5. TSLA (bought a bit late, $80-$100 per share but still been good to me)
All of these are much more of my portfolio than expected because of rapid growth. I have sold portions on the way up otherwise they would make up a lot bigger share. Must resist urge to confuse bull market with stock picking expertise.
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AAPL -Apple
DIS - Disney
ESLT - Elbit Systems
GE - General Electric
GSK - Glaxo-Smith-Kline
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1. JNJ
2. UL
3. MA
4. T
5. Handelsbanken (the best and most conservative swedish bank).
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1. CN Rail
2. CP rail
3. Medtronic
4. MMM
5. JNJ
(I've had to sell some of these because they have grown substantially since we bought them.)
Interesting lists though.
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SHW (Sherwin Williams)
AME (Ametek)
MMM (3 M)
PM (Phillip Morris)
NYRT (New York REIT)
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Brown Forman
McDonalds
Abbott Labs
Abbvie (spinoff from Abbott)
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MORL
CHKR
CPLP
MT
BDCL
So what is your experience with CHKR (Chesapeake Granite Washington Trust)? I see that it's P/E is currently 2.93 and it looks like it has taken a real dive in stock price since 2012.
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1. Marketo
Rest? Index funds.
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NFLX. Everything else is in index.
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Most of mine is in a few different index funds, but I also hold some stocks, top 5:
TGT
VZ
PFE
GE
CSCO
The TGT was a calculated gamble that the market had overreacted to their credit card privacy fiasco. So far, it has rebounded well.
I missed the boat on AAPL as an individual stock, though it is well represented in most index funds so I feel like I actually already own as much as a diversified portfolio should :) (I'm a believer in the 5% rule)
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AAPL, WTR, XOM
That was before I realized it was a bit silly to put $$ in individual large caps, since they take such a huge percentage of the indexes. Now I keep 90%+ in indexes and the rest I keep for interesting small company opportunities...
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Toronto-Dominion Bank
Manulife Financial Corp.
BlackBerry
Bank of Nova Scotia
They've all done quite well except for BNS.
I'm waaay overweight on financials and I wish some consumer stuff was valued a bit more cheaply. I can't find much to hop in on the Canadian side right now.
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1. CMS Energy (was gifted to me upon birth, and I still have it. About $675 worth at this point)
2. ----
3. ----
4. ----
5. ----
The rest of my money is in index funds, or as close as I can get in my 401k.
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MORL
CHKR
CPLP
MT
BDCL
So what is your experience with CHKR (Chesapeake Granite Washington Trust)? I see that it's P/E is currently 2.93 and it looks like it has taken a real dive in stock price since 2012.
CHKR has been killed by the price of oil. I expect it to be a good long term holding due to high payout ratio, assuming a long term price of oil stabilizing around $60/bbl (roughly the cost of production for the most marginal shale producers). I'm down about 50% on LTCG and about 20 percent down after distributions. Not for the feint of heart or short term investors...
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AAPL
KMI
UA
SIRI
JPM
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MORL
CHKR
CPLP
MT
BDCL
So what is your experience with CHKR (Chesapeake Granite Washington Trust)? I see that it's P/E is currently 2.93 and it looks like it has taken a real dive in stock price since 2012.
CHKR has been killed by the price of oil. I expect it to be a good long term holding due to high payout ratio, assuming a long term price of oil stabilizing around $60/bbl (roughly the cost of production for the most marginal shale producers). I'm down about 50% on LTCG and about 20 percent down after distributions. Not for the feint of heart or short term investors...
I read portions of their annual report. It is apparently not for truly long-term investors either since their trust agreement ends in 2031. Since CHKR is basically taking the profits from oil and gas extraction and eventually the oil and gas they are extracting will be gone, how do you do your evaluation on that sort of company? Obviously you can't say something like "Well, CHKR is likely to continue to produce value for the next fifty years, so I can evaluate them on their potential growth combined with their debt and the value of their property." As one can with something like Disney or ATT. So is there some information on how to evaluate these kinds of companies?
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I read portions of their annual report. It is apparently not for truly long-term investors either since their trust agreement ends in 2031. Since CHKR is basically taking the profits from oil and gas extraction and eventually the oil and gas they are extracting will be gone, how do you do your evaluation on that sort of company? Obviously you can't say something like "Well, CHKR is likely to continue to produce value for the next fifty years, so I can evaluate them on their potential growth combined with their debt and the value of their property." As one can with something like Disney or ATT. So is there some information on how to evaluate these kinds of companies?
I suppose I'm sort of old school. I consider every company to be worth the discounted sum of all future cash flows. Not having any cash flows past 2031 is of little consequence as at any reasonable long term interest rate, those are discounted to "immaterial". If I'm right, their Oklahoma wells will produce enough oil, ngl, and gas at the right price to replenish my capital plus a fair return. If I'm wrong - I lose money or at least "underperform". I had a Finance professor in my MBA days who was fond of saying "Daddy always said, 'you pays your money; you takes your chances'!" (I suppose I should note "Daddy" was also a PhD professor of Finance from West Texas...) Some people prefer to speculate on a broad index. I prefer to speculate on income centric investments. One group will ultimately be "righter" than the other. Can anyone here say with certainty which it will be?
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I read portions of their annual report. It is apparently not for truly long-term investors either since their trust agreement ends in 2031. Since CHKR is basically taking the profits from oil and gas extraction and eventually the oil and gas they are extracting will be gone, how do you do your evaluation on that sort of company? Obviously you can't say something like "Well, CHKR is likely to continue to produce value for the next fifty years, so I can evaluate them on their potential growth combined with their debt and the value of their property." As one can with something like Disney or ATT. So is there some information on how to evaluate these kinds of companies?
I suppose I'm sort of old school. I consider every company to be worth the discounted sum of all future cash flows. Not having any cash flows past 2031 is of little consequence as at any reasonable long term interest rate, those are discounted to "immaterial". If I'm right, their Oklahoma wells will produce enough oil, ngl, and gas at the right price to replenish my capital plus a fair return. If I'm wrong - I lose money or at least "underperform". I had a Finance professor in my MBA days who was fond of saying "Daddy always said, 'you pays your money; you takes your chances'!" (I suppose I should note "Daddy" was also a PhD professor of Finance from West Texas...) Some people prefer to speculate on a broad index. I prefer to speculate on income centric investments. One group will ultimately be "righter" than the other. Can anyone here say with certainty which it will be?
I'm not criticizing. I'm just out of my depth on this, find it intriguing, and am puzzled as to how I would evaluate it. I think it is likely that gas and oil prices will return to their previous high levels and that this is a good time to buy them since they are so severely discounted on the market. Our normal rule is to avoid things we don't understand and can't mentally pull apart. This falls into that category, but I was gobsmacked to see a P/E that low in the market we are in currently. A fifteen year time-span is actually short for how we look at stocks we want to buy and the way this thing is built it looks like it works more like a bond than a typical stock, except more speculative. But as I said, I'm out of my depth.
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I'm not criticizing. I'm just out of my depth on this, find it intriguing, and am puzzled as to how I would evaluate it. I think it is likely that gas and oil prices will return to their previous high levels and that this is a good time to buy them since they are so severely discounted on the market. Our normal rule is to avoid things we don't understand and can't mentally pull apart. This falls into that category, but I was gobsmacked to see a P/E that low in the market we are in currently. A fifteen year time-span is actually short for how we look at stocks we want to buy and the way this thing is built it looks like it works more like a bond than a typical stock, except more speculative. But as I said, I'm out of my depth.
No worries. I'm not accusing you of being critical :-)
My area of work expertise pre-FIRE was financial analyst for an oilfield services firm. This kind of structure is something I happen to know well. Chesapeake is top notch in technology and reservoir management and I wanted exposure to them that didn't include exposure to then CEO Aubrey McClendon (who is basically a modern cowboy/capitalist/wildcatter at heart). Oil can go either a long way down or a long way up in the short term. (nobody EVER knows!) Over longish periods of time, it has to settle in around the marginal cost of production for the marginal producers. For WTI crude, that is about 60 a barrel. That's just how the market works...
Totally agree you should avoid this (or anything else) if it is outside your circle of competence.
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One stock only - Apple. 210 shares.
A very small percentage of our portfolio. It has about doubled in the short time we've owned it - 2 years?
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1. ---
2. ---
3. ---
4. ---
5. ---
No individual stocks. I did own some shares of NVDA and AMD a while back (about 0.5% of my portfolio) but then I decided to get rid of them and just fully index.
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For those of you with SP500 index funds here are the top five stocks you own:
AAPL
XOM
MSFT
JNJ
BRK.B
And AAPL is worth more than the bottom 20% of the S&P 500.
http://247wallst.com/investing/2015/03/12/apple-value-now-exceeds-one-fifth-of-sp-500-index-members/ (http://247wallst.com/investing/2015/03/12/apple-value-now-exceeds-one-fifth-of-sp-500-index-members/)
Edit - changed list to current top five, the first list with WMT, GE in 4th and 5th place was from 2013 article. Added link to AAPL article (3/12/2015)
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MO
PM
XOM
GPOR
BMY
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I'm not criticizing. I'm just out of my depth on this, find it intriguing, and am puzzled as to how I would evaluate it. I think it is likely that gas and oil prices will return to their previous high levels and that this is a good time to buy them since they are so severely discounted on the market. Our normal rule is to avoid things we don't understand and can't mentally pull apart. This falls into that category, but I was gobsmacked to see a P/E that low in the market we are in currently. A fifteen year time-span is actually short for how we look at stocks we want to buy and the way this thing is built it looks like it works more like a bond than a typical stock, except more speculative. But as I said, I'm out of my depth.
No worries. I'm not accusing you of being critical :-)
My area of work expertise pre-FIRE was financial analyst for an oilfield services firm. This kind of structure is something I happen to know well. Chesapeake is top notch in technology and reservoir management and I wanted exposure to them that didn't include exposure to then CEO Aubrey McClendon (who is basically a modern cowboy/capitalist/wildcatter at heart). Oil can go either a long way down or a long way up in the short term. (nobody EVER knows!) Over longish periods of time, it has to settle in around the marginal cost of production for the marginal producers. For WTI crude, that is about 60 a barrel. That's just how the market works...
Totally agree you should avoid this (or anything else) if it is outside your circle of competence.
That's fascinating! It's interesting to me that you chose to invest in this way instead trading oil as a commodity. It really shows the difference between people who have the level of expertise you do and someone who does not. One of the challenges in life is being able to identify what is in one's circle of competence, I think. Thank you for the look inside how you think about this.
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Those are the only five I own single shares in. Plan is to buy one or two in Statoil, to be able to vote against oil sand production, and maybe something in Kongsberggruppen.
Voting with "one or two" (shares?) for a company with 3 BILLION shares outstanding won't matter one iota.
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LEH (Lehman Brothers)
WCOM (Worldcom)
ENE (Enron)
WBVN (Webvan)
NRTLQ (Nortel Networks)
edit: came back and spelled out the names.
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AAPL
AFSI
SWKS
FB
AMT
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I'm not criticizing. I'm just out of my depth on this, find it intriguing, and am puzzled as to how I would evaluate it. I think it is likely that gas and oil prices will return to their previous high levels and that this is a good time to buy them since they are so severely discounted on the market. Our normal rule is to avoid things we don't understand and can't mentally pull apart. This falls into that category, but I was gobsmacked to see a P/E that low in the market we are in currently. A fifteen year time-span is actually short for how we look at stocks we want to buy and the way this thing is built it looks like it works more like a bond than a typical stock, except more speculative. But as I said, I'm out of my depth.
No worries. I'm not accusing you of being critical :-)
My area of work expertise pre-FIRE was financial analyst for an oilfield services firm. This kind of structure is something I happen to know well. Chesapeake is top notch in technology and reservoir management and I wanted exposure to them that didn't include exposure to then CEO Aubrey McClendon (who is basically a modern cowboy/capitalist/wildcatter at heart). Oil can go either a long way down or a long way up in the short term. (nobody EVER knows!) Over longish periods of time, it has to settle in around the marginal cost of production for the marginal producers. For WTI crude, that is about 60 a barrel. That's just how the market works...
Totally agree you should avoid this (or anything else) if it is outside your circle of competence.
I did some reading on it today, it appears the price decline isn't so much the price of oil but the wells themselves have had declining output. While the price drop is hedged till late in 2015, it's not enough, and only for oil.
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1. HCLP
2. TSLA
3. V
4. MA
5. MSFT
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ORCL
PSX
DIS
MO
JNJ
Seeing this thread reminds me of Jim Cramer's "Am I Diversified"
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
Or it may be the reverse. Perhaps owning Apple makes people optimistic about the chance of early retirement. Our AAPL stock has increased 70 times in value from when we first bought it. While 75% of our portfolio is in mutual funds, owning a winning stock like Apple does make us pretty cheery. :)
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
Just look at the price chart for AAPL. Pretty much anyone that owned it more than a few years ago has seen a price explosion, likely growing that stock to their largest holding. It would be hard to hold it and NOT have it become your dominate single stock unless you were selling it off to rebalance.
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LVLT
BAC
BP
C
MA
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GLP
MCD
AT&T
GE
BAC & C (bought these at the bottom on a whim after the 2008 crash)
The rest (majority) of my investments are in:
Brokerage
VDADX
VTSAX
VGSLX (REIT)
VGHCX (Healthcare)
IRA
VYM (ETF)
403b through my employer
VIIIX (vanguard index)
VMCIX (vanguard mid-cap)
VSCIX (vanguard small-cap)
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SLB
PCM
JPM
ORAN
GLW
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
Not just AAPL, quite a bit of JNJ also.
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AAPL
SBUX
BRK-B
GOOGL
LUV
I didn't closely examine everyone's posts but I was quasi surprised to see no other airlines. Not historically my favorite group but have been beasts over the last 6 months with oil's plummet.
I will second the sentiment that AAPL has become a large position just by nature of it's explosive growth for those of us who have held it for a longer period of time.
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GLP
MCD
AT&T
GE
BAC & C (bought these at the bottom on a whim after the 2008 crash)
The rest (majority) of my investments are in:
Brokerage
VDADX
VTSAX
VGSLX (REIT)
VGHCX (Healthcare)
IRA
VYM (ETF)
403b through my employer
VIIIX (vanguard index)
VMCIX (vanguard mid-cap)
VSCIX (vanguard small-cap)
The three Admiral funds you have in your brokerage account have corresponding ETF's.
VDADX -> VIG
VTSAX -> VTI
VGSLX -> VNQ
If your brokerage account is with Vanguard they can do a switch from mutual fund to ETF for you (if you want). It is just a different share class of the same fund so it is not a sale/purchase; it is a tax free transfer. You might even be able to do it with another broker but I am not sure.
For VGHCX, Vanguard has two Admiral funds for health care but minimums are high - VGHAX is $50K, VHCIX is $100K. However, VHCIX has corresponding ETF (VHT) which has only 0.12% ER and it outperforms VGHCX. See five year comparison plot here http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/mutual-fund-chart.aspx?timeframe=5y&index=&symbol=VGHCX&symbol=VHT&selected=VGHCX (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/mutual-fund-chart.aspx?timeframe=5y&index=&symbol=VGHCX&symbol=VHT&selected=VGHCX)
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GLP
MCD
AT&T
GE
BAC & C (bought these at the bottom on a whim after the 2008 crash)
The rest (majority) of my investments are in:
Brokerage
VDADX
VTSAX
VGSLX (REIT)
VGHCX (Healthcare)
IRA
VYM (ETF)
403b through my employer
VIIIX (vanguard index)
VMCIX (vanguard mid-cap)
VSCIX (vanguard small-cap)
The three Admiral funds you have in your brokerage account have corresponding ETF's.
VDADX -> VIG
VTSAX -> VTI
VGSLX -> VNQ
If your brokerage account is with Vanguard they can do a switch from mutual fund to ETF for you (if you want). It is just a different share class of the same fund so it is not a sale/purchase; it is a tax free transfer. You might even be able to do it with another broker but I am not sure.
For VGHCX, Vanguard has two Admiral funds for health care but minimums are high - VGHAX is $50K, VHCIX is $100K. However, VHCIX has corresponding ETF (VHT) which has only 0.12% ER and it outperforms VGHCX. See five year comparison plot here http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/mutual-fund-chart.aspx?timeframe=5y&index=&symbol=VGHCX&symbol=VHT&selected=VGHCX (http://www.nasdaq.com/aspx/mutual-fund-chart.aspx?timeframe=5y&index=&symbol=VGHCX&symbol=VHT&selected=VGHCX)
Why would I want to? Is there a big difference between admiral shares and ETF?
My husband has his Roth with E*trade and bought VYM (ETF) 3 or 4 years ago on advice from a FI blogger. Problem is Etrade charges $19.99 fee to purchase Vanguard mutual funds or ETF's. Therefore, I'll likely rollover his Roth from E*T to VG before making the next Roth contribution and subsequent ETF purchase...likely more VYM as I'm happy w/its performance. That's about all I know about ETF's.
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Why would I want to? Is there a big difference between admiral shares and ETF?
My husband has his Roth with E*trade and bought VYM (ETF) 3 or 4 years ago on advice from a FI blogger. Problem is Etrade charges $19.99 fee to purchase Vanguard mutual funds or ETF's. Therefore, I'll likely rollover his Roth from E*T to VG before making the next Roth contribution and subsequent ETF purchase...likely more VYM as I'm happy w/its performance. That's about all I know about ETF's.
The Admiral shares and corresponding ETF's are invested in exactly the same stocks, just a different share class. If you transfer IRA to VG then there are no transaction fees for fund or ETF. One difference is with ETF you can buy/sell it anytime vs fund is at end of day, for long term this isn't an issue. Also, minimum investment is 1 share if minimums are an issue. Since you are already in Admiral funds that is not the case. But, if you want to invest in another Admiral fund and don't have minimum you can buy ETF and get the lower ER.
With VHT, you can get into a better performing health care investment with the same low expense ratio (0.12%) as the Admiral fund VHCIX which has $100K minimum.
Here is VG's webpage discussing ETF's https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/ (https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/)
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Why would I want to? Is there a big difference between admiral shares and ETF?
My husband has his Roth with E*trade and bought VYM (ETF) 3 or 4 years ago on advice from a FI blogger. Problem is Etrade charges $19.99 fee to purchase Vanguard mutual funds or ETF's. Therefore, I'll likely rollover his Roth from E*T to VG before making the next Roth contribution and subsequent ETF purchase...likely more VYM as I'm happy w/its performance. That's about all I know about ETF's.
The Admiral shares and corresponding ETF's are invested in exactly the same stocks, just a different share class. If you transfer IRA to VG then there are no transaction fees for fund or ETF. One difference is with ETF you can buy/sell it anytime vs fund is at end of day, for long term this isn't an issue. Also, minimum investment is 1 share if minimums are an issue. Since you are already in Admiral funds that is not the case. But, if you want to invest in another Admiral fund and don't have minimum you can buy ETF and get the lower ER.
With VHT, you can get into a better performing health care investment with the same low expense ratio (0.12%) as the Admiral fund VHCIX which has $100K minimum.
Here is VG's webpage discussing ETF's https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/ (https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/)
a1smith, I don't know what you wanted to accomplish by pointing out that fartface can convert the Admiral shares versions of some of her funds to ETFs. The only upside you've mentioned is that you can buy/sell at any time during the day as opposed to at the end of the day. But I seriously can't imagine any scenario where you need some funds immediately that day.
Also, you can just place a MF sell order during the day, and it will process after business closing.
You also neglect to inform fartface of the bid/ask spread that exists on any stock or ETF. Now with Vanguard's ETFs, they've got a lot of trade volume, so the bid/ask spread is small. But if you want to bring up the miniscule benefit of being able to trade ETFs during the day as opposed to after business close, then you should include this downside too.
If you want to know of an actual benefit of converting Admiral shares to their ETF versions, here's one:
If you wish to donate relatively small amounts of appreciated shares to charity, it's not really possible to donate MFs directly because you'll break the minimum investments for it. But you can convert some MF shares to ETFs, and then donate those. ETFs are extremely portable and every brokerage should accept them. Also, their "minimum investment" is just one share.
I've done this in the past.
The argument for an ETF having a lower expense ratio than the investor shares is a valid argument. This usually isn't worth fretting over for most Vanguard funds, as most funds have a $10k minimum for admiral shares. In this instance though, it is $100k and worth considering.
However, if you wish to automate investments, it is not possible to automate investments into ETFs, whereas it is possible to automate investments to MFs.
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1. BAX
2. BRK.B
3. BBL
4. DEO
5. HCP
I have a lot of cash and am doing a lot of indexing as well but that's about half the recently started stock portfolio right now.
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Why would I want to? Is there a big difference between admiral shares and ETF?
My husband has his Roth with E*trade and bought VYM (ETF) 3 or 4 years ago on advice from a FI blogger. Problem is Etrade charges $19.99 fee to purchase Vanguard mutual funds or ETF's. Therefore, I'll likely rollover his Roth from E*T to VG before making the next Roth contribution and subsequent ETF purchase...likely more VYM as I'm happy w/its performance. That's about all I know about ETF's.
The Admiral shares and corresponding ETF's are invested in exactly the same stocks, just a different share class. If you transfer IRA to VG then there are no transaction fees for fund or ETF. One difference is with ETF you can buy/sell it anytime vs fund is at end of day, for long term this isn't an issue. Also, minimum investment is 1 share if minimums are an issue. Since you are already in Admiral funds that is not the case. But, if you want to invest in another Admiral fund and don't have minimum you can buy ETF and get the lower ER.
With VHT, you can get into a better performing health care investment with the same low expense ratio (0.12%) as the Admiral fund VHCIX which has $100K minimum.
Here is VG's webpage discussing ETF's https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/ (https://investor.vanguard.com/etf/)
a1smith, I don't know what you wanted to accomplish by pointing out that fartface can convert the Admiral shares versions of some of her funds to ETFs. The only upside you've mentioned is that you can buy/sell at any time during the day as opposed to at the end of the day. But I seriously can't imagine any scenario where you need some funds immediately that day.
Also, you can just place a MF sell order during the day, and it will process after business closing.
You also neglect to inform fartface of the bid/ask spread that exists on any stock or ETF. Now with Vanguard's ETFs, they've got a lot of trade volume, so the bid/ask spread is small. But if you want to bring up the miniscule benefit of being able to trade ETFs during the day as opposed to after business close, then you should include this downside too.
If you want to know of an actual benefit of converting Admiral shares to their ETF versions, here's one:
If you wish to donate relatively small amounts of appreciated shares to charity, it's not really possible to donate MFs directly because you'll break the minimum investments for it. But you can convert some MF shares to ETFs, and then donate those. ETFs are extremely portable and every brokerage should accept them. Also, their "minimum investment" is just one share.
I've done this in the past.
The argument for an ETF having a lower expense ratio than the investor shares is a valid argument. This usually isn't worth fretting over for most Vanguard funds, as most funds have a $10k minimum for admiral shares. In this instance though, it is $100k and worth considering.
However, if you wish to automate investments, it is not possible to automate investments into ETFs, whereas it is possible to automate investments to MFs.
What I was trying to accomplish is provide information. I mentioned if she is invested long term then there is no reason to do it (read both posts.) I mention MF's trade at end of day. Yes, I should have mentioned bid/ask. But, if you are already planning on selling on a particular day and market is dropping you can make up bid/ask by selling early in the day instead of waiting for end of day NAV.
Another benefit of letting Vanguard do the tax free transfer is that it occurs at end of day prices while market is closed. So, I close one day with MF's and open the next with ETF's. If I did it myself I would have to place sell order for MF's at closing NAV but then when I buy ETF's the next day I would not be happy if there was a gap open on the plus side. A gap open on the minus side would be a nice, though.
Another benefit of having ETF's vs Admiral MF's is the ability to asset allocate between your various investments and not worry about going below $10K. That's why I am switching. I currently have Admiral funds in a Vanguard account; I added Vanguard brokerage account and representative told me about tax free transfer from funds to ETF's because I told them about asset allocating my investments which was going to make a couple of them go below $10K. This way, with ETF's, I can keep the lower expense ratio.
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But, if you are already planning on selling on a particular day and market is dropping you can make up bid/ask by selling early in the day instead of waiting for end of day NAV.
And what if the market closes high at the end of the day? There are numerous occasions when the stock market drops in the morning, and then closes higher by the end of the day. This sort of intra-day fluctuation is nothing worth optimizing, partly because it's unpredictable and partly because the gain is miniscule.
Another benefit of having ETF's vs Admiral MF's is the ability to asset allocate between your various investments and not worry about going below $10K. That's why I am switching. I currently have Admiral funds in a Vanguard account; I added Vanguard brokerage account and representative told me about tax free transfer from funds to ETF's because I told them about asset allocating my investments which was going to make a couple of them go below $10K. This way, with ETF's, I can keep the lower expense ratio.
That's true, but you pretty much always end up with turd cash because you can only buy whole shares of ETFs. This turd cash can be viewed as a drag on your investment, and hence a higher implicit expense ratio.
By the way, the correct term is conversion, not transfer.
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AAPL
BRK-B
AMZN
PM
MO
And to answer "why AAPL" - I bought a modest amount in 2008 and haven't sold any yet. AMZN was a higher percentage but I just sold half the position.
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Fun thread. Will be very interesting to look back on it in a few years. I'm sure I will rue posting the below due to it showing my stupidity!
For me (they are not at all equally weighted, but they are my five largest holdings):
AAPL
BAC-WTA
BH
SFTBY
YHOO
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But, if you are already planning on selling on a particular day and market is dropping you can make up bid/ask by selling early in the day instead of waiting for end of day NAV.
And what if the market closes high at the end of the day? There are numerous occasions when the stock market drops in the morning, and then closes higher by the end of the day. This sort of intra-day fluctuation is nothing worth optimizing, partly because it's unpredictable and partly because the gain is miniscule.
Another benefit of having ETF's vs Admiral MF's is the ability to asset allocate between your various investments and not worry about going below $10K. That's why I am switching. I currently have Admiral funds in a Vanguard account; I added Vanguard brokerage account and representative told me about tax free transfer from funds to ETF's because I told them about asset allocating my investments which was going to make a couple of them go below $10K. This way, with ETF's, I can keep the lower expense ratio.
That's true, but you pretty much always end up with turd cash because you can only buy whole shares of ETFs. This turd cash can be viewed as a drag on your investment, and hence a higher implicit expense ratio.
By the way, the correct term is conversion, not transfer.
What if the market goes higher? You win some, you lose some. Same issue with buying or selling a mutual fund one day sooner or later.
The lowest price ETF I will have is $40.72 now (VWO) so at most that's how much cash I will have. I won't worry about having an ~0.025% cash position. Or, maybe I'll keep one Admiral fund (with highest asset allocation % so it is always >$10K) so it can eat the turd cash. :-)
The Vanguard rep called it a transfer; I'll ask when I call in again.
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I think I figured it out. It is both a transfer and a conversion. The MF's are in my Vanguard Roth IRA account (only MF's allowed). I had to open a Vanguard Roth IRA brokerage account to buy/sell ETF's. So, they will transfer the MF's from original account to the brokerage account and then do the conversion to ETF's.
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What if the market goes higher? You win some, you lose some. Same issue with buying or selling a mutual fund one day sooner or later.
That's exactly why I said
This sort of intra-day fluctuation is nothing worth optimizing, partly because it's unpredictable and partly because the gain is miniscule.
The lowest price ETF I will have is $40.72 now (VWO) so at most that's how much cash I will have. I won't worry about having an ~0.025% cash position. Or, maybe I'll keep one Admiral fund (with highest asset allocation % so it is always >$10K) so it can eat the turd cash. :-)
Haha yea I absorb the turd cash into shares of VBMFX.
Honestly the no automatic investment thing is the biggest reason for me to not use ETFs. I have some ETF shares right now because I have my money split across my taxable, tIRA, and Roth IRA accounts, and I couldn't even meet the investor minimum for my tIRA to meet my desired international allocation. But I fully plan on selling my ETFs (a non taxable event because it's in my tIRA) and switching back to MF's once I have enough VTIAX in my taxable to fill my international allocation there instead.
From Vanguard's website
Can I convert my conventional Vanguard mutual fund shares to Vanguard ETF Shares?
Yes, most funds that offer ETF Shares will allow you to convert from conventional shares of the same fund to ETF Shares. (Four of our bond ETFs—Total Bond Market, Short-Term Bond, Intermediate-Term Bond, and Long-Term Bond—don't allow for conversions.)
Conversions are allowed from both Investor and Admiral™ Shares and are tax-free if you own your mutual fund and ETF Shares through Vanguard.
Keep in mind that you can't convert ETF Shares back to conventional shares. If you decide in the future to sell your Vanguard ETF Shares and repurchase conventional shares, that transaction could be taxable.
If you have a brokerage account at Vanguard, there's no charge to convert conventional shares to ETF Shares. If you have questions, call us at 866-499-8473.
If you own your Vanguard mutual fund shares through another broker, keep in mind that some brokers may not be able to convert fractional shares, which could result in a modest taxable gain for you. Other brokers may also charge a fee for a conversion. Contact your broker for more information.
The rep may have called it a transfer because money ends up flowing from your mutual fund account to your brokerage account. But you convert mutual fund shares to ETF shares.
EDIT: You posted as I posted haha. Yup that's pretty much it.
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1. BRK-B
2. SPHS (dammit)
3. SPN (dammit)
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Those are the only five I own single shares in. Plan is to buy one or two in Statoil, to be able to vote against oil sand production, and maybe something in Kongsberggruppen.
Voting with "one or two" (shares?) for a company with 3 BILLION shares outstanding won't matter one iota.
It is part of a larger campaign. The state is a majority stock holder, and with enough citizens taking a stand it should be possible to make changes. The campaign is called "We own Statoil" https://twitter.com/VieierStatoil
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1. LO
2. WFC
3. GE
4. KMI
5. AFL
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
Looks like a whole lot of folks have BRK-b, which figures.
Mine:
BRK-b (of course!)
MKL (mini-BRK, I hope)
WFC (Buffett's coattails)
LUK (mini-BRK, kind of)
IBM (Buffett's coattails)
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1. PUSH (Publix, privately held company)
2. CVX
3. GILD
4. DIS
5. AAPL
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
Looks like a whole lot of folks have BRK-b, which figures.
Mine:
BRK-b (of course!)
MKL (mini-BRK, I hope)
WFC (Buffett's coattails)
LUK (mini-BRK, kind of)
IBM (Buffett's coattails)
MKL is a good one. Its one that I may purchase as well.
LUK- I have owned it and it’s a well run company – but… I don’t see how its going to convert from being a well run company to one that liked by shareholders – and without that demand then I don’t think it will fare as well in share price as the financials reflect.
WFC is another good one – I would buy it but I already have exposure to BAC a C so I’m ok with those kind of stocks at the moment.
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DE
XOM
ED
CVX
DRI (huge run-up)
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Pepsi
A.T.&T.
Duke Energy
McDonald's
GE
Not a large position in any, adding to them through out....holding them forever more than likely. Majority of funds in mutual funds....
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Why does everyone have AAPL? I think it is kind of funny. It shows how things become popular and trend.
Looks like a whole lot of folks have BRK-b, which figures.
Mine:
BRK-b (of course!)
MKL (mini-BRK, I hope)
WFC (Buffett's coattails)
LUK (mini-BRK, kind of)
IBM (Buffett's coattails)
MKL is a good one. Its one that I may purchase as well.
LUK- I have owned it and it’s a well run company – but… I don’t see how its going to convert from being a well run company to one that liked by shareholders – and without that demand then I don’t think it will fare as well in share price as the financials reflect.
WFC is another good one – I would buy it but I already have exposure to BAC a C so I’m ok with those kind of stocks at the moment.
Mkl
ge
pm
mo
sasr
Glad to see two others know about mkl. Fantastic company.
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UNIVERSAL INS HLDGS UVE $3,156.25 471.36%
CF INDUSTRIES HOLDINGS CF $3,189.56 52.44%
COOLPAD GROUP CHWTF $3,299.89 -10.02%
SILICON MOTION SIMO $4,517.35 126.97%
HEWLETT-PACKARD COMPANY HPQ $6,261.18 53.08%