Author Topic: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread  (Read 81332 times)

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #150 on: August 03, 2023, 01:57:54 PM »
LEAST INTRIGUING INVESTMENT

[snip]
Since that time, the Fed has consistently messaged, NOPE, smart money has it wrong and we plan on "higher for longer" and more rate raises through the end of the year.  Futures market now believes that messaging. 
[snip]


Lesson learned.  Don't fight the Fed, ride the wave!  I didn't go long dated or well out of the money this time but I've flipped the trade on its head and gone short.  18AUG2023 expiry 98/103 bear put spread.  I got 2.92 pricing. 

I need TLT to fall 1.2% over 40 days (and the Fed should have raised rates by then or at least signaled one next time).  To make 71% return.  This is enough to push back into the green across both trades.

Underlying is at 98.14 and lower strike is approaching the money.  Should this finish in the money, my loss in TLT will fall to 411 dollars (after forgoing the half the opportunity to derisk the trade).

This now looks to finish safely in the money that Fitch has downgraded the government.  The markets mostly shrugged the announcement off but the hit to 20 year Treasuries e.g. the debt that was downgraded was material. 


daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #151 on: August 04, 2023, 02:05:49 AM »
With the CWB bonds - yeah $80, face value $100, coupon 5% -> 6.25% current yield. Then the 25% in capital gains over ~ 8 years, 25/3 ~= 3% a year, hence 9.25% I guesstimated. Where the hell does the 13% come from?
IDK... I plugged these factors into https://dqydj.com/bond-yield-to-maturity-calculator/ and came up with 9.932%, assuming the coupon is $5 paid out as $2.50 twice a year or 6.25%. Maybe check the assumptions on the coupons.

Also note that in addition to the price of the bond, you also pay the seller the pro-rated interest they earned between payments. I suppose this practice was started to keep the prices of bonds stable and comparable between various interest payment schedules.

Also note, that when you buy a bond except at original issue; you pay the accrued interest on the front coupon.  So if the bond is priced at 80 cents on the dollar, you'll pay 800, plus accrued interest, plus commission.  All of those should be considered in your YTM calculation.  I did this approximately 45834905803459034853458904 times (approx) in grad school.  Its a lot of work to get the technically correct answer but unless the coupon is like 20% or the maturity is less than a year away, the difference is not material on a few thousand investment.  Bonds at IB have commisions that range from 1 dollar per to 7 dollars per and I can't figure out what the drivers are.  The usually moves the YTM by as much as the accrued interest or your compounding assumptions.

Someone on another forum said it was because it's a fixed to floater, so can theoretically convert in 3 years if the issuer wants to, and the 13.xx% is based on that. I'll stick to Gilts, GICs and CDs, preferred shares that I mostly understand I think.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #152 on: August 08, 2023, 07:57:42 AM »
NVO - too late?

So, I've had a long positions in NVO for some time.  They have a drug in clinical trials that is doing really well.  It started as a diabetes drug and turned out to have a major "side effect" of causing people with clinical obesity to drop 30 pounds or more without effort, change in diet, or added exercise.  Adding these elements really ramps up the weight loss.  The drug "Wegovy" is currently delivered by injection and not pill which might reduce adoption but the market for medical weight loss is freaking huge.  Could be the next Lipitor.

I had a smaller short term bull call spread that I closed yesterday as it hit my 50% stop loss.  Wouldn't you know it?  NVO reported this morning that Wegovy has showed another benefit in trails in that it is very effective at reducing cardiovascular disease!  Shares have popped 17%.  I would have been in the money!  I still hold my long shares and the company is a good investment on the strength of the rest of the portfolio (but is probably expensive now ex-Wegovy). 

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #153 on: August 08, 2023, 09:51:29 AM »
Here's an intriguing idea, reduce your stock allocation.  The higher the bond yields, the less attractive stocks should be.

Interesting slides from Yahoo finance today:
https://www.canva.com/design/DAFqQRe2lR0/rInVDEKxrn0Z1ouZBxferA/view?utm_content=DA[%E2%80%A6]mpaign=designshare&utm_medium=link&utm_source=publishsharelink

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #154 on: August 08, 2023, 12:47:44 PM »
Here's an intriguing idea, reduce your stock allocation.  The higher the bond yields, the less attractive stocks should be.

Interesting slides from Yahoo finance today:
https://www.canva.com/design/DAFqQRe2lR0/rInVDEKxrn0Z1ouZBxferA/view?utm_content=DA[%E2%80%A6]mpaign=designshare&utm_medium=link&utm_source=publishsharelink
I really enjoyed that presentation, but then there's this, which puts the other metrics in context!

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #155 on: August 08, 2023, 02:06:50 PM »
LEAST INTRIGUING INVESTMENT

[snip]
Since that time, the Fed has consistently messaged, NOPE, smart money has it wrong and we plan on "higher for longer" and more rate raises through the end of the year.  Futures market now believes that messaging. 
[snip]


Lesson learned.  Don't fight the Fed, ride the wave!  I didn't go long dated or well out of the money this time but I've flipped the trade on its head and gone short.  18AUG2023 expiry 98/103 bear put spread.  I got 2.92 pricing. 

I need TLT to fall 1.2% over 40 days (and the Fed should have raised rates by then or at least signaled one next time).  To make 71% return.  This is enough to push back into the green across both trades.

Underlying is at 98.14 and lower strike is approaching the money.  Should this finish in the money, my loss in TLT will fall to 411 dollars (after forgoing the half the opportunity to derisk the trade).

This now looks to finish safely in the money that Fitch has downgraded the government.  The markets mostly shrugged the announcement off but the hit to 20 year Treasuries e.g. the debt that was downgraded was material.

Just an update on this trade, which I no longer consider a high conviction item.  My spread is in the money by 1.3% (a lot for slow moving TLT) with 10 days remaining to expiry.  The chart has gotten oversold, made a symmetrical move that broke the trend and is in a classic reversal (upward).  I hope it takes at least 10 days as I'm holding rather than taking profits.  On the other hand, this seems to be a rather well behaving chart and some Fed Governors are talking about when it is going to be time to cut again.

SO...I've gone long again!  I have 95/97 strikes bull call spread at the November expiry. I entered yesterday with the underlying about a dollar lower (big move today!) with 103 days till expiry.  The upper strike is 0.2% out of the money.  Finishing in the money will result in a 85.2% capital gain and put me back in the green across the three positions. 

To be clear, I'm wagering that I can predict interest rate policy anymore.  This is purely based on TA.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #156 on: August 18, 2023, 08:13:10 AM »
Economists debated a hard or soft landing in 2022, but there's another possibility: a soft landing followed by the market crashing.  My smallest portfolio is speculative - it holds SPY and QQQ put options which profit off market drops.

Ignoring the chance of various events, let me focus on two: market recovery or market crash.  In a market recovery, I take a total loss: -100%.  In an average crash, the put options triple: +200%.  Notice the skew favors holding put options, all else being equal.

In general, the market is more likely to go up than fall.  This summer, the market really believed inflation was done and a soft landing was arriving.  I think the past few weeks may have shaken the market's confidence in that, while my speculative portfolio has recovered all the way back to -7%.  I think an inverted yield curve and QT will lead to a crash, so I view that as more likely than the general case of markets going up.  But this is my speculative portfolio, which "play money".

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #157 on: August 21, 2023, 01:01:39 PM »
Asset: Concentrix BBB bonds maturing in 2028 (CUSIP: 20602DAB7)
Price: $960.31
Rationale:
The cheap/risky end of investment grade corporate bonds is currently dominated by firms with exposure to commercial real estate or corporations winding down obsolete products. Wouldn't it be nice if growth companies yielded 7.576%?

Well, here you go. Concentrix (CNXC) is a digital user experience, automation, and digital marketing company - basically "outsource all your digital marketing". They've had 5 straight years of growing cash flow from operations, growing revenue, and growing net income, including through the 2020 recession. The company has almost 3x the cash flow from operations they had in 2018, and they've grown net income 9x since 2018 too. This summer they announced the acquisition of Webhelp, which will be primarily funded by diluting their common shareholders (who voted 92% to approve the transaction). The company will pay an additional $542.2M to Webhelp shareholders and cover Webhelp's debts.

Last month Concentrix issued $2.15B in bonds, which according to Moody's could increase leverage to 3.4x. Post-merger CNXC will be the biggest competitor in their industry with about $9B in annual revenue and $1.1B in free cash flow next year. Moody's expects them to reach their 2x leverage target within 2-3 years. I too think they *should* apply cash flow to debt reduction, because their pre-merger ROA is only 5.75% (ROE is 13.34%) and therefore a reduction in leverage might improve profitability while keeping interest expenses down. These particular bonds are not callable until July 2028.

On the downside, Concentrix's debt covenants leave little room for them to take on additional debt in the event of an emergency and they are already flirting with a downgrade to junk status. CNXC shareholders have fled the stock, which fell from over $200 in early 2022 to $73.45 today. The stock's PE of 10.24x seems out of place for an profitable industry leader and growth story. Maybe the market wrote off the company because earnings growth was only 7% in 2022 rather than the 800%+ growth of 2018-2021? But stockholders ignore such issues with tech B2B companies all the time. AMZN swung to a loss in 2022 and it still has a PE >100!

Overall I think bondholders will receive their payment in 5 years, and earn around 5% real returns. String together a few IG bond investments with real returns like that and you've got a solid retirement income base.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #158 on: August 23, 2023, 09:54:56 AM »
Asset: Mylan (Viatris) Baa3 / BBB- rated bonds maturing in 2048 CUSIP: 628530BJ5
Price: $769.51 (7.215% yield to maturity)
Rationale:
Viatris (VTRS) is a generic drug manufacturer with $16.26B in annual revenue. They are the makers of the Epipen, Lipitor, and Lyrica. In 2020 Mylan merged with Pfizer's Upjohn unit and renamed the company Viatris. The company has a quick ratio of 0.94%, a debt/total capital ratio of 47.15%, and 3.89x interest coverage. Earlier this year, Viatris spent $695M to buy two eye healthcare companies and establish an "Eye Care Division" but these were relatively small acquisitions and VTRS has actually experienced falling levels of assets and liabilities through the first two quarters of 2023.

There are plenty of things not to like about Viatris' junk-adjacent bonds. Some critics may be concerned about the company's China exposure amid increasing political risks there. Others will point to a very inconsistent history of revenue, earnings, and cash flow, or the company's recent dividend hike and acquisitions. VTRS trails the overall pharmaceutical industry in ROA, ROE, and revenue per employee, but VTRS' numbers look good compared to other generic firms like AMRX, ENDO, and TEVA. None of these competitors' ROA exceeds the 7.2% yield Viatris is paying on their highly discounted 2048 maturity bonds, which were originally issued in 2018 at 5.2%. $500M of old Mylan bonds mature in November. It is unclear to me how much the company will need to borrow to replace that capital at today's high rates, because Viatris seems to have been on a cost-cutting and asset-shedding spree. The icing on the cake is analysts forecasting declining earnings next year. I'd be happier if management were cutting the dividend, avoiding acquisitions, and de-leveraging at a faster pace.

Still, locking in a current yield of 6.758% on a financially solid company near the top of its industry seems like a reasonable choice. The generic drug industry is not going away... if anything it's growing. Plus, if you're like me and don't buy the latest narrative that interest rates will never go down, then grabbing 25 years of duration looks like a plan. As with the Concentrix bonds discussed above, these bonds with 2-5% expected real returns can be expected to support a 4% retirement through potentially rough times ahead. Viatris also seems less discretionary than most. Do people stop buying the cheapest versions of the drugs they need in recessions? Yes, but it's no doubt a priority to stay healthy, and many of their customers are no doubt on fixed incomes or national insurance plans. If recession strikes later this year or in 2024, VTRS might get some relief from falling interest rates.

I wouldn't back up the truck, but a small serving of these bonds seems justified. They're worth watching if you anticipate a financial squeeze ahead, because they could go on sale. They were selling in the $670 range amid the gloom of October 2022, and that was the time to rent a U-haul. Such a time could come again.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #159 on: August 29, 2023, 01:14:05 PM »
UPDATE: TLT

My original bet on rising TLT (Falling 20 year rates) took it on the chin in July and I booked a 1508 loss.  My reversal of position to bet on a declining TLT (Rising 20 year rates) booked 1097 in profit in August.  (would have been about double that but I took half my risk off the table when position was threatened.

I'm currently back to the original bias of rising TLT and falling 20 year rates.  Although instead of expecting 115 by mid-December, I'm positioned for maximum gain at 97 by mid-November.  That would be a 1196 gain, making the round trip profitable.  Current spot is over 96 and this looks like a 'money good' trade by expiry.

It's no longer one of my "most compelling ideas".  The extreme in sentiment going firmly against FedSpeak just isn't there anymore, and I'm trading purely on technical analysis.  Since stopping trying to outguess the Fed and just letting the trend by my friend, I'm doing much better.


EliteZags

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #160 on: August 29, 2023, 04:09:21 PM »
paid a $200 fantasy football league buy in
I call this an investment since I've won the league 3 of the past 10 years (4-figure payouts), and placed in the top 3 for smaller payouts 3 other times
« Last Edit: August 29, 2023, 04:51:55 PM by EliteZags »

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #161 on: September 03, 2023, 12:37:47 PM »
Walmart (WMT)

So WMT has outpaced the broad average by a good clip and is trouncing Target.  WallyWorld happens to be the country's largest grocer and this drives weekly traffic to its stores where there are opportunities to add a discretionary purchase at better margins.  WMT is seeing success in this and has been able to pass on some inflationary costs to consumers.  Stock hit a new all time high last week and trades safely above 50, 200, and 300 day moving averages while RSI is only 63, indicating room to run.

I'll be opening a net debit Bull Call Spread on Tuesday at the 160 and 165 strikes and 20OCT23 expiry.  I'll need the underlying to rally 2.1% in 46 days to generate an estimated 78.6% return.   I'll be following a 65% hard stop loss.  Position size, about $2,500.

WMT is a dominant player that is growing more dominant but this is largely a momentum play for me. 

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #162 on: September 13, 2023, 09:20:37 PM »
Asset: SPY puts at the 225 strike expiring January 16, 2026 (856d from now)
Price: $2.68/share, though volumes are very thin so YMMV
Rationale:
VIX is back down to about 13.5 which means OTM options are relatively cheap. The rationale for buying put options at the 225 strike is not that one actually expects the S&P500 to be 50% lower in 2.35 years, it's that the vega for those options is 44.4 cents, or 16.6% of the option's theoretical price. That means a 100 basis point (1%) increase in implied volatility would increase the option's price by about that much, all things being equal.*

Yes, shorter-duration options like the January 19, 2024 expiry have a slightly higher vega as percentage of the price, but I'd argue the longer-duration put gives one the ability to ride out a long period of low volatility if that's what lies ahead and if you want to stay in the game betting IV moves higher. The shorter-duration option is riskier IMO because it is more likely that time decay will overwhelm any change in Vega.

Additionally, I'll be watching this put to evaluate the idea of using deep-OTM and extra-long duration options purchased during phases of low volatility as a hedge against volatility. It seems like a bad idea on the surface until one thinks about hedging with vega (volatility) instead of delta (price). A relatively small price correction could send IV soaring in this pessimistic environment.

*Yes, VIX is a measure of expected volatility in the S&P500 index over the next 30 days, and the expected volatility of an option 2.35 years out could be different.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #163 on: September 14, 2023, 04:04:50 AM »
Asset: SPY puts at the 225 strike expiring January 16, 2026 (856d from now)
Price: $2.68/share, though volumes are very thin so YMMV
Rationale:
VIX is back down to about 13.5 which means OTM options are relatively cheap. The rationale for buying put options at the 225 strike is not that one actually expects the S&P500 to be 50% lower in 2.35 years, ...
Is the breakeven point a market drop of -53.6% from SPY"s $480 peak?

(I don't see 2026 SPY puts listed in Yahoo Finance yet)

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #164 on: September 14, 2023, 06:55:28 AM »
Asset: SPY puts at the 225 strike expiring January 16, 2026 (856d from now)
Price: $2.68/share, though volumes are very thin so YMMV
Rationale:
VIX is back down to about 13.5 which means OTM options are relatively cheap. The rationale for buying put options at the 225 strike is not that one actually expects the S&P500 to be 50% lower in 2.35 years, ...
Is the breakeven point a market drop of -53.6% from SPY"s $480 peak?

(I don't see 2026 SPY puts listed in Yahoo Finance yet)
Yea this is definitely not a hold-till-maturity option. It's a bet that an increase in volatility will come sooner than theta decay and outrun it. As a 6 month play, you'd experience minimal theta and have the opportunity to multiply your money if stocks corrected. There are lots of options that can do that, but this one intrigues me because it is so far out and so OTM that it is almost a pure play on vega (0.444 yesterday on an option that last traded for $1.78) and rho - rates - (-0.2299 this morning). If you think rate expectations are going down in the next few months and volatility lies ahead, this is a cheap option tailored to that view.

I also noticed that Yahoo Finance was not up to date with the latest expiry dates. Best I can tell they have some data feeds, some aspects where a human copies the information into tables, and some spots where duct tape holds the thing together. Probably a role where AI is likely to take over and then we worry about hallucinations instead of Todd not getting his work done.

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #165 on: September 15, 2023, 02:20:21 PM »
Anyone look at or follow Japanese stocks?

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/trading/margin-rates.php

Still cheap to buy JP stuff on margin. Vs things in USD, CAD, EUR, GBP...

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #166 on: September 18, 2023, 01:18:12 PM »
Asset: Life annuity through immediateannuities.com
Price: Variable, the current payout is 6.22% for a 45y/o male in my state.
Rationale:
I think sequence of returns risk (SORR, or the risk of being forced to sell assets at low market prices during retirement) can be mitigated if one has a base of relatively safe fixed income in excess of one's withdraw rate. E.g. people with a 4% WR could probably improve the longevity of their portfolios if they could generate a decent chunk of their spending from fixed income assets with yields in the 6% range.

Returns this high cover the 4% WR. They offer inflation protection to the extent the return exceeds the WR. So in our 6% example, the 2% excess return covers that much inflation per year. If inflation exceeds this excess (e.g. if inflation is 4%) then this part of the asset allocation loses the difference in real purchasing power (e.g. 4%-2%= 2% reduction in purchasing power per year). 

That scenario may sound bad, but it's nowhere near as bad as a 30-40% loss in stocks followed by a few years of withdraws from a stock-heavy portfolio. A portfolio with more fixed income is more likely to sustain itself for decades after such an event, all while spinning off cash that insulates the investor from SORR. So if one allocated, say, 25% of their assets to a 6% fixed return, one would be reducing their SORR risk in exchange for some additional inflation risk. That tradeoff is reasonable because with stocks one takes the exact opposite trade, reducing inflation risk in exchange for SORR risk.

Safe fixed income assets returning over 6% are available to purchase now, in the form of bonds from A-rated corporations or annuities.

I pulled an annuity quote for a stream of income starting in 1 year, with a $100k investment. The payment for my age, gender, and location was $518 per month, or 6.22% of my investment per year.

People who want to leave an inheritance might prefer similar-yielding corporate bonds such as those issued by Celgene (151020AL8), Aflac (001055AD4), Alibaba (01609WAY8), Simon Property Group (828807CL9), Pacificorp (695114CL0), or Washington Gas & Light Co (93884PDT4). However some of these are callable, which means you might have to reinvest at lower interest rates in the future and don't really have a 100% secured income. Plus, there is arguably more credit risk involved. Another way to get 6% is through preferred stock, but these arguably come with even more risks.

A lower interest rate future that might lead to bonds, CDs, and preferreds being called away would likely be the same future in which stocks have just taken a severe beating - connected to the reason why rates were cut. So there's a case to be made that to fully exploit the offsetting of interest rate and SOR risks, you need to have the fixed income portion of your AA be REALLY fixed income. That means non-callable, lifetime-term, and with relatively low credit risk.

So a 6.22% annuity is intriguing for its potential to float a 4%WR portfolio through a SORR event OR to endure as a not-callable safe source of income if low rates return.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #167 on: September 18, 2023, 01:38:08 PM »
Just pulled the trigger on a similar annuity after selling one of our rentals. It will generate lifetime income while eliminating the hassles associated with being a landlord.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #168 on: September 18, 2023, 05:24:43 PM »
Asset: Life annuity through immediateannuities.com
Price: Variable, the current payout is 6.22% for a 45y/o male in my state.
Rationale:
I think sequence of returns risk (SORR, or the risk of being forced to sell assets at low market prices during retirement) can be mitigated if one has a base of relatively safe fixed income in excess of one's withdraw rate. E.g. people with a 4% WR could probably improve the longevity of their portfolios if they could generate a decent chunk of their spending from fixed income assets with yields in the 6% range.

Returns this high cover the 4% WR. They offer inflation protection to the extent the return exceeds the WR. So in our 6% example, the 2% excess return covers that much inflation per year. If inflation exceeds this excess (e.g. if inflation is 4%) then this part of the asset allocation loses the difference in real purchasing power (e.g. 4%-2%= 2% reduction in purchasing power per year). 

That scenario may sound bad, but it's nowhere near as bad as a 30-40% loss in stocks followed by a few years of withdraws from a stock-heavy portfolio. A portfolio with more fixed income is more likely to sustain itself for decades after such an event, all while spinning off cash that insulates the investor from SORR. So if one allocated, say, 25% of their assets to a 6% fixed return, one would be reducing their SORR risk in exchange for some additional inflation risk. That tradeoff is reasonable because with stocks one takes the exact opposite trade, reducing inflation risk in exchange for SORR risk.

Safe fixed income assets returning over 6% are available to purchase now, in the form of bonds from A-rated corporations or annuities.

I pulled an annuity quote for a stream of income starting in 1 year, with a $100k investment. The payment for my age, gender, and location was $518 per month, or 6.22% of my investment per year.

People who want to leave an inheritance might prefer similar-yielding corporate bonds such as those issued by Celgene (151020AL8), Aflac (001055AD4), Alibaba (01609WAY8), Simon Property Group (828807CL9), Pacificorp (695114CL0), or Washington Gas & Light Co (93884PDT4). However some of these are callable, which means you might have to reinvest at lower interest rates in the future and don't really have a 100% secured income. Plus, there is arguably more credit risk involved. Another way to get 6% is through preferred stock, but these arguably come with even more risks.

A lower interest rate future that might lead to bonds, CDs, and preferreds being called away would likely be the same future in which stocks have just taken a severe beating - connected to the reason why rates were cut. So there's a case to be made that to fully exploit the offsetting of interest rate and SOR risks, you need to have the fixed income portion of your AA be REALLY fixed income. That means non-callable, lifetime-term, and with relatively low credit risk.

So a 6.22% annuity is intriguing for its potential to float a 4%WR portfolio through a SORR event OR to endure as a not-callable safe source of income if low rates return.

Best I could get was 6.01% for an annuity starting in 1 year for a male age 40. If I changed it to 45 I also got 6.22% Interestingly it was the same for multiple states - including NY - but CA was 6.07%. Normally NY is the outlier for all things insurance.

I remember thinking years ago that buying a lifetime annuity would be a good idea if lifespans became radically longer due to scientific advances, i.e. people living to be 150. However, it looks like most annuities now have a maximum age in the range of 100-120 just to account for that miniscule risk that suddenly people start living twice as long.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #169 on: September 19, 2023, 12:05:28 PM »
VXX, long dated Puts.  I had a position at the 20 strike and Jan 2025 expiry.  As the underlying approached the strike, I was sitting close to break even after 63 days of basically dead money.  I decided to cash out, 9 dollars in profit after commissions.  I still have Bear Put Spreads at the October expiry.   I got the contango decay I wanted but Vega did a number on my profit this time.  Still believe in the strategy but prefer quick exits with monthly bear put spreads for the current environment.  Win rate will be lower but the size of gain will be better and compound faster.

Decided the proceeds was better held as fixed income and bought 124 shares of PDI, adding $27.34 to my average monthly distribution.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #170 on: September 23, 2023, 04:08:32 PM »
ATVI bond CUSIP 00507VAQ2

I mentioned this as a holding earlier.  The bond trades at about 61 cents on the dollar.  Thing is MSFT is trying to buy the company and a bond covenant requires payment at par in the event of change of ownership.  The last major antitrust hurdle appears to be clear now that the UK has signaled it is satisfied.  You can make 63% in a matter of months when/if the deal goes through.  Else you get paid to hold a 'money good' bond for the long term.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #171 on: September 24, 2023, 04:22:40 AM »
ATVI bond CUSIP 00507VAQ2

I mentioned this as a holding earlier.  The bond trades at about 61 cents on the dollar.  Thing is MSFT is trying to buy the company and a bond covenant requires payment at par in the event of change of ownership.  The last major antitrust hurdle appears to be clear now that the UK has signaled it is satisfied.  You can make 63% in a matter of months when/if the deal goes through.  Else you get paid to hold a 'money good' bond for the long term.

Seems like good odds, I'm going to try and buy a few k's worth.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #172 on: September 25, 2023, 08:48:24 AM »
ATVI bond CUSIP 00507VAQ2

I mentioned this as a holding earlier.  The bond trades at about 61 cents on the dollar.  Thing is MSFT is trying to buy the company and a bond covenant requires payment at par in the event of change of ownership.  The last major antitrust hurdle appears to be clear now that the UK has signaled it is satisfied.  You can make 63% in a matter of months when/if the deal goes through.  Else you get paid to hold a 'money good' bond for the long term.
I'm having trouble believing a quick 65% return like this is just laying around, so I dove into my own research. For one thing, the Moody's report for this bond (attached) discusses the Microsoft merger in deep detail, and yet somehow fails to mention this very important note. If this was an omission, a Moody's analyst needs to lose their job.

However, a look at the supplemental prospectus for these bonds reveals the following language, confirming the bond is putable:
Quote
   
If we experience a "Change of Control Repurchase Event" (as defined in the "Description of Notes"), we must offer to repurchase the Notes at a price equal to 101% of the aggregate principal amount of any Notes repurchased plus accrued and unpaid interest on the Notes, if any (subject to the right of holders of record on the relevant record date to receive interest due on the relevant interest payment date), to the date of purchase. See "Description of Notes—Repurchase of Notes upon a Change of Control Repurchase Event."

The supplemental prospectus goes on to discuss the following:
  • Bond holders must elect to have their bonds redeemed, per instructions mailed by the company 15-60 days after the change of control, and use either fax or mail to notify the company within 30 days of the notice going out.
  • Not redeeming the bonds in the event of a CoC is a default.
  • Those who do not redeem their bonds will be issued new notes with equal par value.
  • The definition of CoC involves the company selling "substantially all" of their assets, and the term "substantially all" is not legally defined (see page S-26). Thus it is uncertain if the CoC requirement would be triggered if Activision Blizzard was forced to divest some of their assets as a regulatory condition of the sale. This opens up a risk for investors and an incentive for Microsoft to create some pretext to escape the "substantially all" clause. For example, the final specific agreement could leave behind a building or a game title to be managed by a shell company.
So as far as I can tell, this is a legitimate opportunity, but with some legal and regulatory risks. Specifically, the market may be skeptical of the "substantially all" language and about the odds of the merger passing all regulatory hurdles.  Those risks seem to have persuaded the market to completely discount the possibility of getting $1000 in exchange for $607 a year or two from now.

Media reports are calling the merger a "done deal" after UK regulators stood down and US regulators were blocked by their own court. The specific concession was for Activision to sell their streaming rights to Ubisoft, contingent upon the rest of the deal. I wouldn't think this concession would trigger litigation around the "substantially all" clause, because all of Activision is still being sold to somebody. So the legal risks here seem very small. Yet shenanigans could still occur and bond investors will have to trust Microsoft to pay them billions rather than tying them up in court on a technicality while paying only 2.5% in coupons.

Either the market sees something and is very skeptical, or like the Moody's analyst they are not reading the fine print.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #173 on: September 26, 2023, 03:06:35 PM »
How would the election to sell work? With things held in street name, I assume I would just electronically inform the brokerage of my election, and they would then deal with informing via mail or fax...?

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #174 on: September 26, 2023, 03:26:24 PM »
How would the election to sell work? With things held in street name, I assume I would just electronically inform the brokerage of my election, and they would then deal with informing via mail or fax...?

It would be forwarded to you just like an annual meeting info and proxy card. (For shareholders)

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #175 on: September 27, 2023, 08:09:00 AM »
How would the election to sell work? With things held in street name, I assume I would just electronically inform the brokerage of my election, and they would then deal with informing via mail or fax...?
I do not know. The language of the prospectus sounds like paper mailed through the postal service or faxed, and the timeframes are specific. Sounds like a good application for certified mail!

I took a $9k position which is now down 6%, but I'm tempted to go much bigger because one would only need to hold them a short time to find out if the option is extended, or become eligible to join any class action lawsuits against Microsoft if they try to weasel out of the payout.

The bond is plummeting as long term rates rise and the markets digest the possibility of higher for longer. A trade executed yesterday for $599.

Overall, it seems unlikely Microsoft would want to be accused of defaulting on the terms of Activision's putable bonds, even if they had an angle, but there is a LOT of money at stake here so frivolous litigation may be worth it for even a tiny chance to keep borrowing $2B at around 2.5%.

The bond's 4.11% current yield and 5.235% yield-to-worst are not terrible, and can be compared to the 5.157% YTM on Microsoft's 2050 AAA bonds. There should be a put premium there, even if discounted for the probability of a successful execution. Yet I don't see it.

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #176 on: September 27, 2023, 10:11:11 AM »
How would the election to sell work? With things held in street name, I assume I would just electronically inform the brokerage of my election, and they would then deal with informing via mail or fax...?
I do not know. The language of the prospectus sounds like paper mailed through the postal service or faxed, and the timeframes are specific. Sounds like a good application for certified mail!

I took a $9k position which is now down 6%, but I'm tempted to go much bigger because one would only need to hold them a short time to find out if the option is extended, or become eligible to join any class action lawsuits against Microsoft if they try to weasel out of the payout.

The bond is plummeting as long term rates rise and the markets digest the possibility of higher for longer. A trade executed yesterday for $599.

Overall, it seems unlikely Microsoft would want to be accused of defaulting on the terms of Activision's putable bonds, even if they had an angle, but there is a LOT of money at stake here so frivolous litigation may be worth it for even a tiny chance to keep borrowing $2B at around 2.5%.

The bond's 4.11% current yield and 5.235% yield-to-worst are not terrible, and can be compared to the 5.157% YTM on Microsoft's 2050 AAA bonds. There should be a put premium there, even if discounted for the probability of a successful execution. Yet I don't see it.

Yeah it doesn't make sense. It shouldn't exist. "How much money would you like to multiply by 1.6?" - um, all of it please?

And there doesn't seem to be real risk. The bonds aren't likely to implode between now and October the 18th. Neither is Microsoft. Almost risk-free reward.

I guess the question is still, what are we missing?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #177 on: September 27, 2023, 11:53:49 AM »
How would the election to sell work? With things held in street name, I assume I would just electronically inform the brokerage of my election, and they would then deal with informing via mail or fax...?
I do not know. The language of the prospectus sounds like paper mailed through the postal service or faxed, and the timeframes are specific. Sounds like a good application for certified mail!

I took a $9k position which is now down 6%, but I'm tempted to go much bigger because one would only need to hold them a short time to find out if the option is extended, or become eligible to join any class action lawsuits against Microsoft if they try to weasel out of the payout.

The bond is plummeting as long term rates rise and the markets digest the possibility of higher for longer. A trade executed yesterday for $599.

Overall, it seems unlikely Microsoft would want to be accused of defaulting on the terms of Activision's putable bonds, even if they had an angle, but there is a LOT of money at stake here so frivolous litigation may be worth it for even a tiny chance to keep borrowing $2B at around 2.5%.

The bond's 4.11% current yield and 5.235% yield-to-worst are not terrible, and can be compared to the 5.157% YTM on Microsoft's 2050 AAA bonds. There should be a put premium there, even if discounted for the probability of a successful execution. Yet I don't see it.
Yeah it doesn't make sense. It shouldn't exist. "How much money would you like to multiply by 1.6?" - um, all of it please?

And there doesn't seem to be real risk. The bonds aren't likely to implode between now and October the 18th. Neither is Microsoft. Almost risk-free reward.

I guess the question is still, what are we missing?
Now I'm going through the original merger agreement at https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000110465922025210/tm225196-3_prem14a.htm#tWYCF. It mostly talks about the effect on stockholders, but contains the following on page A-40:
Quote
4.3   Non-Contravention.   The execution and delivery of this Agreement by each of Parent and Merger Sub, the performance by each of Parent and Merger Sub of their respective covenants and obligations hereunder, and the consummation of the Merger do not (a) violate or conflict with any provision of the certificate of incorporation, bylaws or other similar organizational documents of Parent or Merger Sub; (b) violate, conflict with, result in the breach of, constitute a default (or an event that, with notice or lapse of time or both, would become a default) pursuant to, or result in the termination of, or accelerate the performance required by, or result in a right of termination or acceleration pursuant to any of the terms, conditions or provisions of any note, bond, mortgage, indenture, lease, license, contract, agreement or other instrument or obligation to which Parent or Merger Sub is a party;...
This section seems to be saying 'we're not going to violate any debt agreements or default' but it is unclear to me whether the putable function of the bonds is "a right of termination or acceleration" that they say will not be invoked. I wouldn't think so. I can't imagine a merger agreement changing the terms for bondholders or superseding the prospectus, which were the original terms of the loan. This would be like your bank going through a merger and changing the terms of your CD, or your mortgage company merging and removing your prepayment option. 

The more I dig, the more interesting this investment idea becomes. I have some treasuries maturing in mid-October and might just send the funds in this direction if the merger is not already done by then. If Microsoft walks at the last minute, they'll owe Activision a $4.5B breakup fee.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #178 on: September 27, 2023, 05:57:14 PM »
Thanks for the link to the merger agreement, I think that has the unfortunate answer. If the deal closes ATVI shares will be bought for 95. Although it seems like an acquisition and it is in a way, the agreement states many times that this will be a merger and ATVI will be a subsidiary of MSFT. From page 2 "...on the closing date and at the time at which the merger will become effective, which we refer to as the “effective time,” Sub will merge with and into Activision Blizzard, with Activision Blizzard continuing as the surviving corporation and a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft. As a result of the merger, Activision Blizzard will cease to be a publicly traded company."

From page 6
"Financing of the Merger (page 66)
The merger is not conditioned on Microsoft’s ability to obtain financing. Microsoft has represented to Activision Blizzard that it has available, and will have available at the effective time, the funds necessary to pay the aggregate merger consideration, including (i) payments to Activision Blizzard’s stockholders of the amounts due under the merger agreement and (ii) payments in respect of certain of Activision Blizzard’s outstanding equity awards pursuant to the merger agreement."
-note there's nothing about purchase of ATVI bonds

I think that because legally the deal is a merger (not a sale or takeover) that would not be a change in control so bondholders will not have the right to redeem the bonds. From page S-26 of the bond prospectus "The Change of Control purchase feature of the Notes may in certain circumstances make more difficult or discourage a sale or takeover of us..."

Thoughts?

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #179 on: September 27, 2023, 06:03:31 PM »
If the Activision execs want to trigger their golden parachutes, they aren't going to be able to pick and choose which stakeholders get to declare a change in control.

Maybe Microsoft has positions for all of them.  Maybe all their stock options will roll over to MSFT ones.  But usually management is pretty heavily incentivized to realize a change in control at deal time.

fi-me-to-the-moon

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #180 on: September 27, 2023, 07:18:42 PM »
Quote
I think that because legally the deal is a merger (not a sale or takeover) that would not be a change in control so bondholders will not have the right to redeem the bonds. From page S-26 of the bond prospectus "The Change of Control purchase feature of the Notes may in certain circumstances make more difficult or discourage a sale or takeover of us..."

The definition of "Change of Control" includes language about a merger, although there are multiple qualifiers:

Quote
"Change of Control" means the occurrence of any of the following:
...
2.
the Issuer becomes aware of (by way of a report or any other filing pursuant to Section 13(d) of the Exchange Act, proxy, vote, written notice or otherwise) the acquisition by any Person or group (within the meaning of Section 13(d)(3) or Section 14(d)(2) of the Exchange Act), including any group acting for the purpose of acquiring, holding or disposing of securities (within the meaning of Rule 13d-5(b)(1) under the Exchange Act or any successor provision), in a single transaction or in a related series of transactions, by way of merger, consolidation or other business combination or purchase, of beneficial ownership (within the meaning of Rule 13d-3 under the Exchange Act, or any successor provision) of a majority or more of the total voting power of the Voting Stock of the Issuer;
...
        For purposes of this definition, any direct or indirect holding company of the Issuer shall not itself be considered a "Person" or "group" for purposes of clause (2) above; provided that no "Person" or "group" beneficially owns, directly or indirectly, more than a majority of the total voting power of the Voting Stock of such holding company.

Does this merger qualify under the meaning of Rule 13d-3 under the Exchange Act? I don't think so since Activision ceases to be a publicly traded company at the time of the deal executes, even though its parent company (Microsoft) would still be publicly traded.

The being said, the first definition of CoC "the sale, lease or transfer, in one or a series of related transactions, of all or substantially all of the assets of the Issuer and its Subsidiaries, taken as a whole, to any Person;" still seems to fit the situation by my read (as a layman).

« Last Edit: September 27, 2023, 07:22:02 PM by fi-me-to-the-moon »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #181 on: September 27, 2023, 09:05:17 PM »
IDK. If being purchased by another company is not a change of control, I don’t know what is. My read of the language is the merger counts.

I imagine the bonds, which are not redeemed if redemption is possible, will continue trading under their existing name, like I see lots of other post-merger bonds doing.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #182 on: October 06, 2023, 03:31:56 PM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity. That means its bond convexity is extreme. In layman's terms, this bond's sensitivity to rate changes is itself dramatically changed as it move along a convex curve on a chart where x=market yield and y=bond price.

Convexity explains how this bond lost 54.8% of its market value over the past 3.3 years! Rates rose and the value of bonds with a coupon of only $12.50 per year fell. Now the bond yields 2.765% on its current price, and it is a 26.6 year bond instead of a 30 year bond. But convexity also explains why it probably won't lose much more.

We can use a bond calculator to predict the change to the bond's price in one or two years if interest rates change (par=$1k, coupon=12.50, current TTM=26.6 years). Right now, the yield to maturity on this treasury is 4.99%. The value of the bond in 1 year and 2 years from now will be one of the following:

Future Market Rate       Price Change in 1 Year         Price Change in 2 Years

7%                              -30.3%                              -28.1%
6%                              -15.3%                              -14.3%
5%                              +2.1%                               +3%
4%                              +22.5%                             +24.7%
3%                              +50.2%                             +52%
2%                              +85.4%                             +86.4%

Note that these are price returns. Add the 2.765% annual yield to obtain total return.

Intriguing reason #1:
If you wanted to go all-in on a bet that another financial crisis will force down interest rates like it did in 2008, this would be your vehicle. The setup is eerily similar: The FFR rose from very low levels to over 5%, yield curve has been inverted for a long time, unemployment is low, and there's a housing bubble. Only a very well-timed option play could beat this payoff in the event of a crisis, but with the treasury you don't have to get your timing particularly right or expose your money to the risk of 100% loss. You could sit and wait years for the crisis and rate cuts to happen - an interesting prospect when the 5 year breakeven inflation rate is 2.17% and the Fed's latest Summary of Economic Projections predicts major rate cuts over the next two years. Even if rates NEVER CHANGE this bond will gain a couple percent per year due to the passage of timing bringing the payoff closer and closer.

Intriguing reason #2:
Note that the payoff outcomes are not symmetrical. A 2% increase in rates does not do as much damage (-28.1% over two years) as the payoff from a 2% decrease (+52% over two years). This is bond convexity visualized. This bond has a flatter downside and a rapidly sloping upside. The reward is literally greater than the risk for an equal sized move in either direction! This is as free a lunch as you'll ever get - a bet where the odds are in your favor. The lopsided upside means if you are using these bonds to hedge stocks against the sort of event that tends to lead to bear markets, then you need to risk less capital to get the same amount of hedging effect.

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #183 on: October 06, 2023, 04:04:22 PM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity. That means its bond convexity is extreme. In layman's terms, this bond's sensitivity to rate changes is itself dramatically changed as it move along a convex curve on a chart where x=market yield and y=bond price.

Convexity explains how this bond lost 54.8% of its market value over the past 3.3 years! Rates rose and the value of bonds with a coupon of only $12.50 per year fell. Now the bond yields 2.765% on its current price, and it is a 26.6 year bond instead of a 30 year bond. But convexity also explains why it probably won't lose much more.

We can use a bond calculator to predict the change to the bond's price in one or two years if interest rates change (par=$1k, coupon=12.50, current TTM=26.6 years). Right now, the yield to maturity on this treasury is 4.99%. The value of the bond in 1 year and 2 years from now will be one of the following:

Future Market Rate       Price Change in 1 Year         Price Change in 2 Years

7%                              -30.3%                              -28.1%
6%                              -15.3%                              -14.3%
5%                              +2.1%                               +3%
4%                              +22.5%                             +24.7%
3%                              +50.2%                             +52%
2%                              +85.4%                             +86.4%

Note that these are price returns. Add the 2.765% annual yield to obtain total return.

Intriguing reason #1:
If you wanted to go all-in on a bet that another financial crisis will force down interest rates like it did in 2008, this would be your vehicle. The setup is eerily similar: The FFR rose from very low levels to over 5%, yield curve has been inverted for a long time, unemployment is low, and there's a housing bubble. Only a very well-timed option play could beat this payoff in the event of a crisis, but with the treasury you don't have to get your timing particularly right or expose your money to the risk of 100% loss. You could sit and wait years for the crisis and rate cuts to happen - an interesting prospect when the 5 year breakeven inflation rate is 2.17% and the Fed's latest Summary of Economic Projections predicts major rate cuts over the next two years. Even if rates NEVER CHANGE this bond will gain a couple percent per year due to the passage of timing bringing the payoff closer and closer.

Intriguing reason #2:
Note that the payoff outcomes are not symmetrical. A 2% increase in rates does not do as much damage (-28.1% over two years) as the payoff from a 2% decrease (+52% over two years). This is bond convexity visualized. This bond has a flatter downside and a rapidly sloping upside. The reward is literally greater than the risk for an equal sized move in either direction! This is as free a lunch as you'll ever get - a bet where the odds are in your favor. The lopsided upside means if you are using these bonds to hedge stocks against the sort of event that tends to lead to bear markets, then you need to risk less capital to get the same amount of hedging effect.

At last, something is making me understand bond convexity.

I had sold a little stock to buy some options but failed to buy them timely. May buy some of this instead and call it good.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #184 on: October 07, 2023, 10:18:28 AM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity.
...
You can take that one step further with a "zero coupon" bond.  You pay a discount to buy it, but receive the full value of the bond at maturity.  Despite the lack of interest paid to you, you can owe tax on "imputed interest" every year if you hold Zero Coupon Bonds in a taxable account.

I'm personally avoiding long duration treasuries, but if your goal is to speculate on those, consider:

PIMCO 25+ Year Zero Coupon U.S. Treasury Index Exchange-Traded Fund (ZROZ)
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ZROZ/performance?p=ZROZ

Performance was -41% last year, and -21% so far this year.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #185 on: October 08, 2023, 12:35:00 PM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity.
...
You can take that one step further with a "zero coupon" bond.  You pay a discount to buy it, but receive the full value of the bond at maturity.  Despite the lack of interest paid to you, you can owe tax on "imputed interest" every year if you hold Zero Coupon Bonds in a taxable account.

I'm personally avoiding long duration treasuries, but if your goal is to speculate on those, consider:

PIMCO 25+ Year Zero Coupon U.S. Treasury Index Exchange-Traded Fund (ZROZ)
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/ZROZ/performance?p=ZROZ

Performance was -41% last year, and -21% so far this year.
Correct. This is another way to swing for the fences on the possibility of rate cuts. For some reason my brokerage has a place to search for zeros and strips, but nothing ever comes up on the search. So I don’t talk about them much.

The downside of long duration is of course, what if the economy is going strong after 525bp of rate hikes because that’s the new neutral rate? If so, you might not lose much money but the opportunity cost would be killer.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #186 on: October 11, 2023, 09:48:37 PM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity.
...
The last few days have illustrated how sensitive this bond is to long-term interest rates. Since 10/6 rates on 20 year treasuries have fallen from 5.13% to 4.92%, and 30 year rates fell from 4.95% to 4.73%.

This bond responded by going from $454.40 to $475.84, a price increase of 4.71%.

21 to 22 basis points of movement caused that kind of price movement, so imagine what a couple hundred basis points could do! This one will have a lot further to run if the housing bubble bursts.

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #187 on: October 13, 2023, 02:34:38 AM »
MSFT-ATVI: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67080391

Quote
Call of Duty maker Activision to be bought by Microsoft

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #188 on: October 13, 2023, 12:00:04 PM »
Ahhhh I think I get it now.

It's in the prospectus. It's basically there to protect the bondholder in the case of a dodgy leveraged buyout, where it means the bonds are at risk.

"Change of Control Repurchase Event" means the occurrence of both a Change of Control and a Below Investment Grade Rating Event.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #189 on: October 13, 2023, 03:28:22 PM »
Ahhhh I think I get it now.

It's in the prospectus. It's basically there to protect the bondholder in the case of a dodgy leveraged buyout, where it means the bonds are at risk.

"Change of Control Repurchase Event" means the occurrence of both a Change of Control and a Below Investment Grade Rating Event.
Did you see this definition in the documentation, and if so can you point me to it? My read was that an investment grade event was not mentioned.

I emailed Microsoft investor relations to ask the question. Have not yet heard back.

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #190 on: October 14, 2023, 12:14:08 AM »
Ahhhh I think I get it now.

It's in the prospectus. It's basically there to protect the bondholder in the case of a dodgy leveraged buyout, where it means the bonds are at risk.

"Change of Control Repurchase Event" means the occurrence of both a Change of Control and a Below Investment Grade Rating Event.
Did you see this definition in the documentation, and if so can you point me to it? My read was that an investment grade event was not mentioned.

I emailed Microsoft investor relations to ask the question. Have not yet heard back.

Yeah, it's in the link you gave before: https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/718877/000104746920004447/a2242201z424b5.htm

Page S-38

Quote
"Change of Control Repurchase Event" means the occurrence of both a Change of Control and a Below Investment Grade Rating Event.

reeshau

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #191 on: October 16, 2023, 06:14:10 PM »
Microsoft Launches $3.65 Billion Exchange for Activision Debt

"The world’s largest software maker will replace the Activision securities currently held by bondholders with up to $3.65 billion of new notes and a cash consideration, according to a statement.

As part of the exchange offer, Activision will be soliciting consents from eligible bondholders 'to adopt certain proposed amendments' to the existing bond that will get rid of certain covenants, restrictive provisions and events of default, according to the release."

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #192 on: October 17, 2023, 02:12:17 AM »
Well, I swear, I have the worst timing with this stuff - assuming the offer from Microsoft is decent.

Sold most of what I'd accumulated of those bonds once I realised there wouldn't be a change of control redemption. Still got a small handful, but..

Sigh.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #193 on: October 17, 2023, 07:39:26 AM »
Microsoft Launches $3.65 Billion Exchange for Activision Debt

"The world’s largest software maker will replace the Activision securities currently held by bondholders with up to $3.65 billion of new notes and a cash consideration, according to a statement.

As part of the exchange offer, Activision will be soliciting consents from eligible bondholders 'to adopt certain proposed amendments' to the existing bond that will get rid of certain covenants, restrictive provisions and events of default, according to the release."
Looks like the terms of the deal are equivalent bonds from Microsoft, $1k par value for $1k par value, plus $1, IF you respond by October 27. Otherwise the exchange is $970 worth of Microsoft par value for every $1k par value Activision bonds IF you respond by November 14.

However, the offer is only to "eligible" institutions or persons defined by law as an accredited investor (i.e. not a regular Joe like me). This is because the new Microsoft securities that would replace the bonds are not yet SEC-registered, and therefore can only be exchanged amongst "accredited" investors as defined by law. So presumably my choices as owner of 15 bonds are either to sell at today's prices (down 9.66% from where I bought, due to rising long term interest rates) or to hold the bonds as they are.

I am tempted to hold based on the expectation rates will be lower a couple years in the future, which would cause a bond with this amount of convexity to increase in value. Another reason - owning this officially A- rated bond is similar in risk to owning Microsoft's AAA bonds, but at a discount of about $10 per bond because the ratings agencies haven't caught up. Finally, there are no tax losses to harvest because the bonds are in an IRA, so no financial incentive to take a loss or to justify transaction costs and B/A spreads.

However, I'm also tempted to sell because there is no remaining lotto ticket potential for non-accredited investors now that the details have been published, because I could sell my bonds to an accredited investor who could exchange them for AAA bonds within the next couple of weeks and therefore has a higher willingness to pay than they will after the offer expires, because liquidity will be lower in the future, and because credit spreads are so low if I'm going to play the convexity game I might as well use higher-rated bonds.

I'll probably sell and trade into similar duration/convexity in similar AAA or AA bonds, so that I don't lose any premium from this specific offering. Microsoft's own 2050 bonds are appealing convexity plays. Then again 5.56% YTM is not bad for this duration, so it's not a bad bond at all. It could easily increase 20% in a recession scenario with rate cuts.

reeshau

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #194 on: October 17, 2023, 10:36:48 AM »
I don't think being an accredited investor is that big a stretch.  If you are FIRE'd and your 4% number is $40k or more, you're there. 

(Meaning $1M net worth, minus primary residence.  Doesn't even have to be liquid net worth)

reeshau

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #195 on: October 17, 2023, 06:08:58 PM »
Interesting development in metro and an industry not deemed the epicenter of CRE trouble:

Pimco Fund Walks Away From 20 Hotels With $240 Million of Debt

Located in San Antonio and Carmel, Indiana

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #196 on: October 19, 2023, 03:58:01 PM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity.
...
The last few days have illustrated how sensitive this bond is to long-term interest rates. Since 10/6 rates on 20 year treasuries have fallen from 5.13% to 4.92%, and 30 year rates fell from 4.95% to 4.73%.

This bond responded by going from $454.40 to $475.84, a price increase of 4.71%.

21 to 22 basis points of movement caused that kind of price movement, so imagine what a couple hundred basis points could do! This one will have a lot further to run if the housing bubble bursts.
Now $438.03 ... OOF!
Also, those TLT short puts are not working out at all, lol!
Such is the business of catching falling knives, but it looks like it would have been so easy in hindsight!

daverobev

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #197 on: October 20, 2023, 02:40:02 AM »
Interesting, Non-US people are allowed to tender their Activision bonds.

Is this a good offer? What should the replacement bonds be worth?

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #198 on: October 20, 2023, 03:01:14 AM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity.
...
The last few days have illustrated how sensitive this bond is to long-term interest rates. Since 10/6 rates on 20 year treasuries have fallen from 5.13% to 4.92%, and 30 year rates fell from 4.95% to 4.73%.

This bond responded by going from $454.40 to $475.84, a price increase of 4.71%.

21 to 22 basis points of movement caused that kind of price movement, so imagine what a couple hundred basis points could do! This one will have a lot further to run if the housing bubble bursts.
Now $438.03 ... OOF!
Also, those TLT short puts are not working out at all, lol!
Such is the business of catching falling knives, but it looks like it would have been so easy in hindsight!
It's good to review past decisions like you're doing.  But your descriptions of what happened ("catching falling knives", "easy in hindsight") robs you of the chance to revisit your original decision.  Hadn't the Fed paused rate hikes when you made this investment?  The main driver of bond yields was done, and inflation was falling.

Not sure if you're aware, but buying TLT was extremely popular among retail investors.  Although you used a different mechanism (shorting TLT puts), you were on the same side as a crowded trade.  I believe more effort investigating mistakes can improve future decisions.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Most Intriguing Investment Idea of the Day Thread
« Reply #199 on: October 20, 2023, 11:36:31 AM »
Asset: 30-year treasury issued on 5/20/20 with a 1.25% initial yield (CUSIP: 912810SN9)
Price: $452.40
Rationale:
This is among the highest duration US treasury bonds in existence, due to its tiny coupon and long time till maturity.
...
The last few days have illustrated how sensitive this bond is to long-term interest rates. Since 10/6 rates on 20 year treasuries have fallen from 5.13% to 4.92%, and 30 year rates fell from 4.95% to 4.73%.

This bond responded by going from $454.40 to $475.84, a price increase of 4.71%.

21 to 22 basis points of movement caused that kind of price movement, so imagine what a couple hundred basis points could do! This one will have a lot further to run if the housing bubble bursts.
Now $438.03 ... OOF!
Also, those TLT short puts are not working out at all, lol!
Such is the business of catching falling knives, but it looks like it would have been so easy in hindsight!
It's good to review past decisions like you're doing.  But your descriptions of what happened ("catching falling knives", "easy in hindsight") robs you of the chance to revisit your original decision.  Hadn't the Fed paused rate hikes when you made this investment?  The main driver of bond yields was done, and inflation was falling.

Not sure if you're aware, but buying TLT was extremely popular among retail investors.  Although you used a different mechanism (shorting TLT puts), you were on the same side as a crowded trade.  I believe more effort investigating mistakes can improve future decisions.
These are all good points. Process quality is always more important than outcomes in situations where extraneous factors can cause good processes to sometimes have bad outcomes. Besides, I wanted to take a position in TLT anyway, and looks like I will get it for a dollar cheaper than if I had just clicked buy. I didn't end up executing the ZROZ or the 2020 30y treasury trade, so I might pick these up as the knife continues to fall. It is totally unrealistic to expect to perfectly nail the bottom, so each successive decision can be expected to look like an error in the short term, as prices continue to fall. This is the only way to buy anywhere near a bottom: accumulating over a period of weeks/months.

I'm studying possible reasons why long-term rates are rising, to make a better guess at when they'll stop rising and when is an ideal time to "buy the dip" in duration/convexity. Here's what I have so far:
  • The debt ceiling compromise in June kinda dammed up supply of new treasuries and then let the flood loose. As treasury supply has recently increased, prices have fallen.
  • China is defending its currency by selling massive piles of US treasuries, or at least reducing their demand.
  • As cash moves out of bank non-interest-bearing deposits and into money market funds paying 4-5%, banks have less cash to redeploy into treasuries.
Notice how these are all temporary factors. I also explored the idea that perhaps market participants are buying into the "higher for longer" mantra that the Fed has been repeating for about a year now. However this doesn't make sense because:

1) The nominal/TIPS spread still implies ~2.5% average inflation for the next 5 years and 10 years, and ~2.35% for the next 30 years. If market participants thought inflation would be higher, it would make more sense to jump on TIPS right now, but that's not happening.

2) The Fed's dot plot has generally predicted a higher for longer Fed Funds Rate than the market. Even if you accept their forecast, you're predicting a future in which the FFR is going to drop over 150bp over the next two years. I.e. a 30y bond with a 5% coupon bought today will see price appreciation of 16.75% if 30y bonds are going for 4% two years from now. That outcome would only require the Fed's prediction to be correct and the yield curve to be almost flat. So even if you believed "higher for longer" and were in the no-recession camp, you'd still conclude treasuries are a steal at these prices and yields. If you think part of the purpose of the dot plot is merely to convince investors rates will be higher for longer, then treasuries look even better because rate cuts are a lot more likely than indicated in a forecast no one is accountable for.