Author Topic: losing money faster than im putting in  (Read 23222 times)

mohawkbrah

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losing money faster than im putting in
« on: January 19, 2016, 01:39:10 AM »
Im investing in US and UK index funds atm and my portfolio is dropping, it's down by about 10% total. i started my investing journey very close to peak prices.



i dint liek dis :'(

dilinger

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2016, 02:11:57 AM »
Every time you buy, you're getting an even better deal than before.

On Vanguard, it tells you the average cost per share of each fund you hold.  I like to play the get-it-below-the-current-price game.  If the price is below the average that I paid, how many more shares do I need to buy before I can bring the average cost down?  If the current price goes down some more, I go into a buying frenzy.  If the price goes up, I get complacent and let money collect in my bank account (and pat myself on the back for having gotten X% in returns so far).

faramund

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2016, 02:19:11 AM »
I think of the share market as a saw, its teeth go up and down, but from the start to the end, it gets higher and higher.

Its always demoralizing to see shares go down, especially when you first get started, but its the nature of the stock market.

Historically, the best think to do when the market goes down, is to buy more.

Hang in there!!!

Retire-Canada

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2016, 06:14:24 AM »
i dint liek dis :'(

Stop looking at it. There is no point checking in on your portfolio frequently.

Sid Hoffman

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2016, 11:47:18 AM »
You're not losing money unless you are selling.  If you are a long term investor, then you shouldn't be selling, thus you aren't realizing any losses at all.  Train your brain to separate paper, unrealized losses from actual, realized losses and it should help you to stay the course more easily.

Alternately, use this as motivation to increase your savings & investing rate by enough to cover the paper declines in value.  This will serve two purposes: first, you'll be buying even more while prices are cheap, and that is a good thing.  Second, you'll be associating market dips with buying opportunities rather than panic selling, and that will ultimately help you over a lifetime.

onlykelsey

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2016, 11:49:11 AM »
Quote
Alternately, use this as motivation to increase your savings & investing rate by enough to cover the paper declines in value.  This will serve two purposes: first, you'll be buying even more while prices are cheap, and that is a good thing.  Second, you'll be associating market dips with buying opportunities rather than panic selling, and that will ultimately help you over a lifetime.


That's simple and brilliant.  I've been maxing out retirement accounts since I started working (I'm 29) but just started in to taxable investing and can't stop looking at my brokerage balance.  I should try to think of them as buying opportunities for newly acquired assets, not drops in the value of my existing assets.   It's harder when you're on a 5 or 10 year horizon for retirement than a 40, though.

PhysicianOnFIRE

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2016, 11:59:00 AM »
Buy on the way down, buy at the bottom, buy on the way back up.  When the market gets back to it was when it started dropping, you'll be far ahead of where you would have been if the market had remained flat the whole time.  The only scenario in which you don't come out ahead is if the markets NEVER recover (highly unlikely) or if you bail too soon and sell before the market eventually recovers (this happens far more often).

I started investing $45k per year into a SEP-IRA in 2006.  The Dow was around 13,000.  I continued putting money in as the Dow lost 50% and continued as it came back.  Best thing that happened to me early in my career.
« Last Edit: January 19, 2016, 07:14:33 PM by PhysicianOnFIRE »

GoldenNeko

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2016, 12:08:13 PM »
I agree with previous answers. I also started my investing journey at the peak prices (march/may 2015).
But, I see the market drop as a blessing. We can buy for much cheaper now. It's a good opportunity for us in our accumulation journey.
I feel bad though, for the people who are already FIRED, but except a HUGE market drop, this small -20 -10% is something that any portfolio tested with firecalc can easily handle.

tj

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2016, 12:14:52 PM »
A 10% drop is nothing, so if one is concerned about a 10% drop, I'd reconsider how much exposure I want to equities and fixed income. You need to think about it that it isbetter to have drops at the beginning of your career than the end. Stay the course!

I have to keep average 100k invested at Merrill Edge to qualify for a Preferred program with Bank of America, and it's almost like a game forcing myself to transfer more $$$ in to buy shares of VT. In the long run, the buy price is going to be irrelevant because I don't plan on tapping those funds for many years, but I suppose I'll eventually owe more taxes on these lower basis shares.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2016, 12:25:13 PM »
I think of the share market as a saw, its teeth go up and down, but from the start to the end, it gets higher and higher.
Or it's a saw because it hurts a lot when it cuts into your money, but when it rises you're just happy it's not cutting anymore.  :)

Back to OP - Behavioral economics has found the losses hurt twice as much as gains, roughly.  So it's better to guide your investments with a strategy, not with gut emotions.  If you trust your gut, your gut will suggest selling stocks whenever they go down.

I'm a red panda

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2016, 12:27:07 PM »
Im investing in US and UK index funds atm and my portfolio is dropping, it's down by about 10% total. i started my investing journey very close to peak prices.



i dint liek dis :'(

I seem to have started my taxable accounts at the height of the market too.  So I'm doing nothing but losing money. 
Luckily my non-taxable accounts started around 2005, so they've grown a bit.

fmzip

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2016, 01:02:59 PM »
I too invested all my cash of around $500K at what was the market height on June 20, 2014. Was a very difficult thing to do, It's gone up down and sideways since, haven't gained anything. But what I have done is kept pouring more and more in. So $500K is now $700K

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=141513

Remember this, "it's time IN the market, you can't time the market "

Just stick to it. At times like this I wish I had more cash to throw in. Nothing like a good sale in my opinion :)




GuitarStv

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2016, 01:10:10 PM »
Im investing in US and UK index funds atm and my portfolio is dropping, it's down by about 10% total. i started my investing journey very close to peak prices.



i dint liek dis :'(


Time to double down!

CorpRaider

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2016, 01:10:49 PM »
Russell 2000 is down > 20% from the most recent high.  It is tough, especially if you're flirting with a big round number that you are trying to overcome.  Maybe focus on the number of shares of whatever you own.  That will still be moving up.

Sailor Sam

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2016, 01:41:07 PM »
Im investing in US and UK index funds atm and my portfolio is dropping, it's down by about 10% total. i started my investing journey very close to peak prices.



i dint liek dis :'(


Time to double down!

Yup! 

Personal NW in July 2015: 300k
Personal NW in Jan 2016: 300K

Cash added July-Jan: 13k

Riding the wave down for all it's worth. Great optimism, here.

dividendman

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2016, 01:47:22 PM »
Note that as your portfolio gets larger this will always be the case. You will gain more and lose more with market fluctuations than you will be adding new funds.

I guess what I'm saying is: suck it up buttercup!

Bracken_Joy

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2016, 01:49:46 PM »
You're young. You should be DELIGHTED that you get to buy when things are on sale. Just think of all those poor suckers who had good economies when they were young- their dollars didn't go nearly so far!

Silver linings my friend =)

soccerluvof4

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2016, 02:03:52 PM »
Buy the "dips" that mean "sale'' exspecially when below you DCA

ShoulderThingThatGoesUp

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2016, 02:07:38 PM »
Putting in $2000 this week because I have it. Disheartening to see my main account below $200,000 again but it's all alright.

iamlindoro

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #19 on: January 19, 2016, 02:27:36 PM »
I totally get what you're saying, it looks like I'm going to have to write my first ever net worth post *decreasing* our current safe withdrawal rate this month (such a bummer!)... but look at it this way, you are going to have a ton more shares!  Last year and ~30K ago, I had the same experience crossing the $100K in VTSAX threshold... For like three months I poured money in, and it kept retreating just enough to stay below $100K!  The great news is that when it *does* recover, you gain that much faster!

Jeremy E.

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #20 on: January 19, 2016, 02:47:58 PM »
You shouldn't really care what the stock market does when you are in your accumulation phase, just keep throwing money at your retirement accounts until you're retired. If it helps, when the market is down, think of it as buying on sale.

SwordGuy

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #21 on: January 19, 2016, 03:06:44 PM »
Let's take this simple example to learn how the stock market prices work:

You buy a car for $10,000.

On Monday, I see your sweet new ride and say, I'll offer you $10,100 for that car.  You decline to sell, it's not worth spending another afternoon with sleazy car salesmen for $100.  But wow!  You made $100!

On Tuesday, I offer $11,000 for the car.   You're hoping to get laid tonight in your brand new car, so you decline to sell.  But, gosh!  You've made $1000 in just 2 days!

On Wednesday, I offer you $9000 for the car.   You get all depressed because you've lost $2000!  So you sell the car.

Do you see anything wrong with this?

I do.

First of all, you did not make $100 on Monday when I offered to buy the car from you for $10100.   You made nothing because - drum roll please - you did not sell the car.

Second, you did not make $1000 on Tuesday when I offered to buy the car for $11000, and for the same reason.

Third, you did not lose $2000 (11000 - 9000) on Wednesday when I offered to buy the car for $9000.

You lost it because you sold it for $9000, which was a darn fool thing to do.

Stock ownership is no different in this regard.

Where stock ownership is better than car ownership is that stocks sometimes pay dividends in cash.

Jeremy E.

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #22 on: January 19, 2016, 03:24:57 PM »
Let's take this simple example to learn how the stock market prices work:

You buy a car for $10,000.

On Monday, I see your sweet new ride and say, I'll offer you $10,100 for that car.  You decline to sell, it's not worth spending another afternoon with sleazy car salesmen for $100.  But wow!  You made $100!

On Tuesday, I offer $11,000 for the car.   You're hoping to get laid tonight in your brand new car, so you decline to sell.  But, gosh!  You've made $1000 in just 2 days!

On Wednesday, I offer you $9000 for the car.   You get all depressed because you've lost $2000!  So you sell the car.

Do you see anything wrong with this?

I do.

First of all, you did not make $100 on Monday when I offered to buy the car from you for $10100.   You made nothing because - drum roll please - you did not sell the car.

Second, you did not make $1000 on Tuesday when I offered to buy the car for $11000, and for the same reason.

Third, you did not lose $2000 (11000 - 9000) on Wednesday when I offered to buy the car for $9000.

You lost it because you sold it for $9000, which was a darn fool thing to do.

Stock ownership is no different in this regard.

Where stock ownership is better than car ownership is that stocks sometimes pay dividends in cash.
Another area that stock ownership is better than car ownership, historically the value of the stock market rises while the value of cars... declines

acorn

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2016, 04:21:31 PM »
Maybe focus on the number of shares of whatever you own.  That will still be moving up.

I like this way of thinking.

faramund

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2016, 04:32:46 PM »
Maybe focus on the number of shares of whatever you own.  That will still be moving up.

I like this way of thinking.

I take this, to non-recommended extremes. For each company I own, I track what they own, what fraction of the company I own, and thus what I own. So for example, part of what I own is 14 square meters of retail space -- somewhere.

But, its the same thing as the number of shares, it doesn't matter what the share price does, I still just own those 14 square meters, the only way it changes, is if the companies I own build or buy more floor space, or if I buy more shares.

And if I buy more shares, I want the price to be lower. Before the most recent downturn, it probably cost $3000 for me to buy a square meter, now it probably only costs me $2700 - so that's all good.

But the key point, is that shares are a proportional ownership of certain companies. Even if you don't know the details, what you own of those companies doesn't change, as the market goes up and down. The only thing is, when the market goes down, you get more, for less.

BarkyardBQ

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2016, 04:40:04 PM »
I'm always impressed when the market has decided to challenge our NW and drop it more than we can contribute in the month. We have had 1 negative (total less than previous) NW month in the last year, this will likely be number 2.

Keep stacking.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 09:42:47 AM by BackyarBQ »

Bracken_Joy

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2016, 05:10:31 PM »
Maybe focus on the number of shares of whatever you own.  That will still be moving up.

I like this way of thinking.

I take this, to non-recommended extremes. For each company I own, I track what they own, what fraction of the company I own, and thus what I own. So for example, part of what I own is 14 square meters of retail space -- somewhere.

But, its the same thing as the number of shares, it doesn't matter what the share price does, I still just own those 14 square meters, the only way it changes, is if the companies I own build or buy more floor space, or if I buy more shares.

And if I buy more shares, I want the price to be lower. Before the most recent downturn, it probably cost $3000 for me to buy a square meter, now it probably only costs me $2700 - so that's all good.

But the key point, is that shares are a proportional ownership of certain companies. Even if you don't know the details, what you own of those companies doesn't change, as the market goes up and down. The only thing is, when the market goes down, you get more, for less.

I love this approach. So tangible!

mrpercentage

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2016, 07:00:06 PM »
A couple of people I know are pulling everything out of the market. Advice be damned-- its their money.

The alarming thing is I know of a couple doing it. How many more are doing it without saying so. Then again I look at the market and see the evidence right there. Its not vaporizing into thin air.

The Fibonacci Queen says if we do stop at key support areas then its down to a 1350 S&P500 before the bounce. They just covered it at the end of Mad Money.

Lesson: DCA boys DCA don't try to lump sum in this nonsense. Im still investing and driving on my weekends to do more. If it is in vain then so-be-it. I have a wife, two kids, food on the table, money in the bank, a new car, and a grass yard.

Murica F#$% Yeah!

okits

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2016, 07:10:49 PM »
Im investing in US and UK index funds atm and my portfolio is dropping, it's down by about 10% total. i started my investing journey very close to peak prices.



i dint liek dis :'(

Perhaps reading the article linked in this thread's OP (or reading the threads listed in the replies) will help?

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/answer-to-doubts-about-investing-in-high-markets/

Don't panic.
Keep investing.
Stop checking your portfolio value if it makes you feel bad or makes you want to stop investing.

Jeremy E.

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2016, 09:43:26 AM »
A couple of people I know are pulling everything out of the market. Advice be damned-- its their money.

The alarming thing is I know of a couple doing it. How many more are doing it without saying so. Then again I look at the market and see the evidence right there. Its not vaporizing into thin air.

The Fibonacci Queen says if we do stop at key support areas then its down to a 1350 S&P500 before the bounce. They just covered it at the end of Mad Money.

Lesson: DCA boys DCA don't try to lump sum in this nonsense. Im still investing and driving on my weekends to do more. If it is in vain then so-be-it. I have a wife, two kids, food on the table, money in the bank, a new car, and a grass yard.

Murica F#$% Yeah!
if I came across $100,000 tomorrow, I would lump sum it into VTSAX. In my opinion it doesn't matter what the market is doing, the best time to invest is now. Historically the market always goes up over time and lump sum has historically given better returns than DCA.

capitalninja

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #30 on: January 20, 2016, 10:13:30 AM »
Annnnnd securities on sale again today. :-) Time to put more $$$ to work.

mpg350

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #31 on: January 20, 2016, 10:26:22 AM »
If this is the start of a bear market and its very possible this is nothing we have way more further to go down.
So if your freaking out now you might want to shut the computer off for awhile.


FIRE47

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #32 on: January 20, 2016, 10:58:50 AM »
Join the club - I dont hold exclusively US stocks like many posters here so I'm already down in the negative 25-30% region in my Canadian and International stocks and we should all expect at some point that will happen to our US stocks as well maybe now, maybe later. If you're just holding US stocks consider yourself lucky becuase at some point youre going to have to experience losses 3-4 times the most recent blip.

At this point even though I started seriously investing about 3-4 years ago I havn't made a cent and if I did the math am probably slightly negative overall after today and much worse off than even just having used a savings account or GICs.


pbnjpeg

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #33 on: January 20, 2016, 12:21:01 PM »
I feel the same way as the OP. I'm a young Mustachian who only really started reducing spending and actively investing in April of last year. I'm pretty sure my portfolio climbed up by about 0.5% in April and then it's been all downhill since then, to -10% to -14% give or take.

HOWEVER, I'm staying the course and trying my best to buy lots of shares while the market is down. I figure in the long run this can only be a good thing. Yes, my initial investment is not currently doing too hot, but I'm not going to be spending any of that money any time soon, am I? And secondly, once the market starts to climb again, all these shares I'm getting at discounted prices will grow disproportionately fast!

Or so I'm told. It's tough to enter the market and then only see your money decrease in value for an extended period. But once it starts to grow... watch out!

zz_marcello

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #34 on: January 20, 2016, 12:34:17 PM »
That's the problem with high market valuations.
Even after this drop, Shiller CAPE is still around 23.
http://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe/
...Which was more or less the multi decade high in 1902 (1930) and in 1966.
(those years where a 4% withdrawal rate was nicely depleting an account in the following ~15-20 years).

Maybe US Shiller CAPE is going to 50 next year but its not that we currently are"cheap" or having "good value"
For someone in his early saving period that's no problem, just keep adding monthly.
But for someone just retired there is a risk and its higher than those often communicated 5%.

That being said statistically we are close to a technical low in the markets now and a rebound is very likely in the coming days.

Have a nice week!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 12:41:33 PM by zz_marcello »

FIRE47

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #35 on: January 20, 2016, 12:53:56 PM »
That's the problem with high market valuations.
Even after this drop, Shiller CAPE is still around 23.
http://www.multpl.com/shiller-pe/
...Which was more or less the multi decade high in 1902 (1930) and in 1966.
(those years where a 4% withdrawal rate was nicely depleting an account in the following ~15-20 years).

Maybe US Shiller CAPE is going to 50 next year but its not that we currently are"cheap" or having "good value"
For someone in his early saving period that's no problem, just keep adding monthly.
But for someone just retired there is a risk and its higher than those often communicated 5%.

That being said statistically we are close to a technical low in the markets now and a rebound is very likely in the coming days.

Have a nice week!

Would you be so kind to perform this same analysis on various international equity markets?

StockBeard

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #36 on: January 20, 2016, 12:59:53 PM »
At this point even though I started seriously investing about 3-4 years ago I havn't made a cent and if I did the math am probably slightly negative overall after today and much worse off than even just having used a savings account or GICs.
Kinda similar here. I feel it's more heart breaking when you're getting really close to the FI goal. The goal gets much further all of a sudden, and your monthly investments don't cover the drop, at all.
I'll require a year of savings to cover the hole that was made over the past 2 weeks.


but as others said: buying opportunity. Stay in, and it will come back.

CorpRaider

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #37 on: January 20, 2016, 01:01:37 PM »
This is a psychological upside to the investing "methods" focused on the dividends or growth thereof.  They usually change much less rapidly than do quoted publicly traded stock prices.  Also, good opportunity to really evaluate your risk tolerance.  You can do 60-40, 50-50 etc...IEF (an intermediate treasuries etf) is up like 3% ytd.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2016, 01:03:22 PM by CorpRaider »

Yankuba

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2016, 01:04:18 PM »
At this point even though I started seriously investing about 3-4 years ago I havn't made a cent and if I did the math am probably slightly negative overall after today and much worse off than even just having used a savings account or GICs.
Kinda similar here. I feel it's more heart breaking when you're getting really close to the FI goal. The goal gets much further all of a sudden, and your monthly investments don't cover the drop, at all.
I'll require a year of savings to cover the hole that was made over the past 2 weeks.


but as others said: buying opportunity. Stay in, and it will come back.

I'm with you Wololo - I think as of now I need an entire year of saving to cover the 2.5 weeks of 2016 losses. No fun!

dilinger

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2016, 01:37:34 PM »
For folks near retirement who are concerned about the recent market drop - you should have more bonds.  VBTLX is up 1% since the beginning of the year.  If you were retiring (or retired) and actually needing money, you wouldn't sell your stocks while they're down, you'd sell your bonds and wait for stocks to appreciate.

Here's where balancing is helpful.  You might aim for a 70/30 stock/bond mix.  The market craters, and suddenly your portfolio is 60% stocks and 40% bonds.  Sell those overpriced bonds and buy those on-sale stocks!  When the market comes roaring back, sell some of those overpriced stocks to fund your retirement (and maybe pick up some bonds, too, if they're cheap).

tj

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2016, 02:05:33 PM »
For folks near retirement who are concerned about the recent market drop - you should have more bonds.  VBTLX is up 1% since the beginning of the year.  If you were retiring (or retired) and actually needing money, you wouldn't sell your stocks while they're down, you'd sell your bonds and wait for stocks to appreciate.

Here's where balancing is helpful.  You might aim for a 70/30 stock/bond mix.  The market craters, and suddenly your portfolio is 60% stocks and 40% bonds.  Sell those overpriced bonds and buy those on-sale stocks!  When the market comes roaring back, sell some of those overpriced stocks to fund your retirement (and maybe pick up some bonds, too, if they're cheap).

This is why balanced funds are appealing despite the slightly higher cost and potentially taxes. They do all this for you behind the scenes.

Jeremy E.

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #41 on: January 20, 2016, 06:03:00 PM »
For folks near retirement who are concerned about the recent market drop - you should have more bonds.  VBTLX is up 1% since the beginning of the year.  If you were retiring (or retired) and actually needing money, you wouldn't sell your stocks while they're down, you'd sell your bonds and wait for stocks to appreciate.

Here's where balancing is helpful.  You might aim for a 70/30 stock/bond mix.  The market craters, and suddenly your portfolio is 60% stocks and 40% bonds.  Sell those overpriced bonds and buy those on-sale stocks!  When the market comes roaring back, sell some of those overpriced stocks to fund your retirement (and maybe pick up some bonds, too, if they're cheap).
Alternatively for those that don't like bonds, assuming you are "financially independent"(able to live on 4% of your portfolio), if you have 100% of your portfolio in VTSAX, you will get at least half of your income from dividends. To make up the rest, on up years you take out a little more than you need, on down years you take out enough.

tj

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #42 on: January 20, 2016, 06:45:38 PM »
For folks near retirement who are concerned about the recent market drop - you should have more bonds.  VBTLX is up 1% since the beginning of the year.  If you were retiring (or retired) and actually needing money, you wouldn't sell your stocks while they're down, you'd sell your bonds and wait for stocks to appreciate.

Here's where balancing is helpful.  You might aim for a 70/30 stock/bond mix.  The market craters, and suddenly your portfolio is 60% stocks and 40% bonds.  Sell those overpriced bonds and buy those on-sale stocks!  When the market comes roaring back, sell some of those overpriced stocks to fund your retirement (and maybe pick up some bonds, too, if they're cheap).
Alternatively for those that don't like bonds, assuming you are "financially independent"(able to live on 4% of your portfolio), if you have 100% of your portfolio in VTSAX, you will get at least half of your income from dividends. To make up the rest, on up years you take out a little more than you need, on down years you take out enough.

Another option would be keeping a few years worth of expenses in cash. That way you don't have to deplete as much of your stock assets if you have a bear market during the first few years of retirement.

whodidntante

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #43 on: January 20, 2016, 06:58:59 PM »
Im investing in US and UK index funds atm and my portfolio is dropping, it's down by about 10% total. i started my investing journey very close to peak prices.



i dint liek dis :'(

I picked up some ITOT near today's bottom.  It's very nice.  Who knows?  Maybe it'll be worth something someday. 

Retire-Canada

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #44 on: January 20, 2016, 07:00:40 PM »
This is why balanced funds are appealing despite the slightly higher cost and potentially taxes. They do all this for you behind the scenes.

Does that really seem worth the cost to save yourself 30mins a few times a year???

onlykelsey

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #45 on: January 20, 2016, 07:01:43 PM »
Quote
Does that really seem worth the cost to save yourself 30mins a few times a year???

I think he/she is saying the opposite.  That they may be worth the slightly higher cost to avoid the emotional ride of checking in on your investments yourself. 

TheOldestYoungMan

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #46 on: January 20, 2016, 08:53:12 PM »
Sell! Sell! Sell!

Sell your car, sell your sofa, sell your books and your craft!  Sell anything you can get anyone to buy!  Mow the neighbor's yard for a twenty, watch your sister's kids for a five!  Grandma's jewelry you can pawn!  File taxes early for that return!

And then Buy! Buy! Buy! them discounted shares.

tj

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #47 on: January 20, 2016, 10:52:39 PM »
Quote
Does that really seem worth the cost to save yourself 30mins a few times a year???

I think he/she is saying the opposite.  That they may be worth the slightly higher cost to avoid the emotional ride of checking in on your investments yourself.

EXACTLY. A lot of people do get overwhelmed by investments and feel as if they have to go to some fancypants adviser, or at the very least, a robo-adviser. They'd be better off setting and forgetting it in a balanced fund or a couple of balanced funds. Regardless of how much "time it saves", it masks the individual asset volatility and if it lets people sleep better, that's a good thing IMO.

frugledoc

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #48 on: January 21, 2016, 12:49:25 AM »
It gets worse as your portfolio gets larger and drops in a day what you earn from working for one to several months.  Fortunately by that time you're hopefully experienced enough to hunker down in the happy place in your mind and just keep imvesting

OvertheRainbow

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Re: losing money faster than im putting in
« Reply #49 on: January 21, 2016, 01:12:49 AM »
Yeah...my portfolio is down almost 10%. You are not alone! It is disheartening to look at, but if history repeats itself, we will see a surge and profit soon.