Author Topic: Long-Term Returns  (Read 15761 times)

notquitefrugal

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #50 on: July 24, 2013, 10:30:46 AM »
Wow. LTR looked like an informative website. I had bookmarked the Wayback Machine link and was looking forward to reading it before it was pulled.

Edited to add: If anyone has a mirror of the site, I'd still be interested in reading it. All too often, I bookmark something on the web and assume it will be available forever.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2013, 12:16:22 PM by notquitefrugal »

FLBiker

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #51 on: July 24, 2013, 10:33:03 AM »
Well, this sucks.  I'm relatively new to MMM but I've been following LTR for a while now.  Thanks to the folks who uncovered what has happened.

gdborton

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #52 on: July 24, 2013, 01:04:33 PM »
I think I've found a way to retrieve most if not all of the content of the blog. I'll be pulling it down to a personal archive before I share.

swiper

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #53 on: July 24, 2013, 01:12:47 PM »
I think I've found a way to retrieve most if not all of the content of the blog. I'll be pulling it down to a personal archive before I share.

Please do, I learned of this blog after it was taken down. The abrupt end adds to the mystique!

bkru21

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #54 on: July 24, 2013, 01:22:32 PM »
I think I've found a way to retrieve most if not all of the content of the blog. I'll be pulling it down to a personal archive before I share.

Please do, I learned of this blog after it was taken down. The abrupt end adds to the mystique!

It's because he spoke the truth and didn't bullshit when it comes to returns, like evidently Everest can. I don't understand why they don't go after someone iconic like Jack Boggle, who makes the same claims, but feel so threatened over an anonymous blog.


richschmidt

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #55 on: July 24, 2013, 02:11:10 PM »
From the complaint .pdf linked earlier... this is the portion of LTR's blog that they quoted:

[MOD EDIT: Everest Wealth Management has threatened the MMM blog with legal action due to this thread.  See discussion here: http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/forum/welcome-to-the-forum/everest-wealth-management-threatens-mmm-blog-with-legal-action/ /END EDIT]
Quote
*** original quote removed by moderator MMM ***

A Note from MMM about Everest Wealth Management:

I decided to remove the quote that was originally in this box. It wasn't very interesting - just some guy's opinion that Everest could not really guarantee a 7% return. But it is still easily available elsewhere on the Internet. I thought the following information would be even more useful for people researching the company.

A guy named Philip Rousseaux, founder and President of Everest Wealth Management started hassling me by email about this forum thread. He claimed it contained "libelious" information that was damaging his firm, and hinted that if I did not take it down he would be "forced to refer this to counsel".

Why? Because this thread had made it to page 2 on Google search results for people searching for the company by name. He didn't like this.

So this is a company that seems to have a policy of policing the Internet and attempting to take down content that they feel is damaging to them. Rather than trying to post a response with their side of the story, the company decided to ask me - with threat of legal action -to delete the whole thing.

I'll leave it up to you if this is the type of company you would like to have managing your wealth.


Now, as I read that, I can see where he's coming from.  However, if I read it through the eyes of someone at Everest... well, he's just attacked my company and called us dishonest scam artists.  Of course I'm going to sue. 

Well... if it were me, I'd start by replying and educating LTR on how annuities work, etc. I might not actually sue.  But I can understand why they did.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 07:31:51 PM by arebelspy »

kyleaaa

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #56 on: July 24, 2013, 02:44:11 PM »

Well... if it were me, I'd start by replying and educating LTR on how annuities work, etc. I might not actually sue.  But I can understand why they did.

LTR is in the industry. He knows how annuities work, probably  much better than does Everest.

gdborton

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #57 on: July 24, 2013, 03:05:01 PM »
So the simple solution is to get it from Bing (the down facing green arrows contain cache links) -

http://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Alongtermreturns.com&go=&qs=HS&form=QBLH&pq=si&sc=8-2&sp=1&sk=&ghc=1

I imagine that this will also disappear, so I've already written some scripts to scrape all of the articles that Bing had and stored them locally.  If needed, PM me your email and I'll share.

richschmidt

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #58 on: July 24, 2013, 03:13:08 PM »

Well... if it were me, I'd start by replying and educating LTR on how annuities work, etc. I might not actually sue.  But I can understand why they did.

LTR is in the industry. He knows how annuities work, probably  much better than does Everest.

OK.  I was just saying what I would do if I were in Everest's shoes.  Which, obviously, I'm not.

I don't know LTR.  Just what I've read in that excerpt.  And now, thanks to gdborton and Bing, a little more.

aj_yooper

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #59 on: July 25, 2013, 06:54:29 AM »
So the simple solution is to get it from Bing (the down facing green arrows contain cache links) -

http://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Alongtermreturns.com&go=&qs=HS&form=QBLH&pq=si&sc=8-2&sp=1&sk=&ghc=1

I imagine that this will also disappear, so I've already written some scripts to scrape all of the articles that Bing had and stored them locally.  If needed, PM me your email and I'll share.

They are no longer available.

gdborton

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #60 on: July 25, 2013, 07:16:26 AM »
So the simple solution is to get it from Bing (the down facing green arrows contain cache links) -

http://www.bing.com/search?q=site%3Alongtermreturns.com&go=&qs=HS&form=QBLH&pq=si&sc=8-2&sp=1&sk=&ghc=1

I imagine that this will also disappear, so I've already written some scripts to scrape all of the articles that Bing had and stored them locally.  If needed, PM me your email and I'll share.

They are no longer available.

They're still working for me... you need to click the downward green triangle, then click cached page.  If you click the blue search result you'll get a 404 error.

aj_yooper

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #61 on: July 25, 2013, 09:40:35 AM »
Like you said, downward green arrow. Got it.  Thanks.

TLV

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #62 on: July 25, 2013, 11:30:29 AM »
From the complaint .pdf linked earlier... this is the portion of LTR's blog that they quoted:

Quote
I've never heard of Everest Wealth Management before, but I can assure you that neither they nor anybody else legally operating in the United States would or could guarantee 7% return. No investment even remotely close to this number exists today in the United States.

...

What these Everest Wealth Management guys and hundreds others like them do is dance around the words to make sure they convey the impression of that "guaranteed" 7% return without actually being pinned down to deliver it.
The claim for the second part, I can understand someone suing over that (even if it's accurate) as it is pretty defamatory.

However, the claim that the first bolded part is LTR accusing them of operating illegally? That just seems like a reading fail to me. The structure of the sentence indicates LTR is lumping them in with legally operating companies, not excluding them.

arebelspy

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #63 on: July 25, 2013, 01:02:49 PM »
However, the claim that the first bolded part is LTR accusing them of operating illegally? That just seems like a reading fail to me. The structure of the sentence indicates LTR is lumping them in with legally operating companies, not excluding them.

I see it as the opposite, the second part isn't defamatory to me.  But that first part can be read as "companies operating legally couldn't/wouldn't guarantee a 7% return ...and therefore they must be operating illegally" (the latter part being implied).
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kyleaaa

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #64 on: July 25, 2013, 01:15:55 PM »
However, the claim that the first bolded part is LTR accusing them of operating illegally? That just seems like a reading fail to me. The structure of the sentence indicates LTR is lumping them in with legally operating companies, not excluding them.

I see it as the opposite, the second part isn't defamatory to me.  But that first part can be read as "companies operating legally couldn't/wouldn't guarantee a 7% return ...and therefore they must be operating illegally" (the latter part being implied).

A more reasonable interpretation would be that they aren't REALLY guaranteeing 7%. This interpretation is reinforced by the 2nd bolded statement.

mpbaker22

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #65 on: July 25, 2013, 01:20:01 PM »
Logically it's an either/or (or could be both).  The first statement doesn't point either way.
The second bolded part then seeks to declare which piece the author thinks is false.  that would be the 7% piece.

abba

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2013, 02:02:21 PM »
Just as an FYI he was given the opportunity to remove the company name, as he knew nothing of the company or even what the actual ad said specifically, only what he heard from a poster.  He didn't remove the company name, instead he shut everything down.

arebelspy

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Re: Long-Term Returns
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2013, 05:15:14 PM »
Just as an FYI he was given the opportunity to remove the company name, as he knew nothing of the company or even what the actual ad said specifically, only what he heard from a poster.  He didn't remove the company name, instead he shut everything down.

Was he given an "opportunity" before the lawsuit was filed, or was a lawsuit filed first?

[MOD EDIT: Everest Wealth Management has threatened the MMM blog with legal action due to this thread.  See discussion here. /END EDIT]
« Last Edit: March 02, 2014, 07:30:56 PM by arebelspy »
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, and now travel the world full time with two kids.
If you want to know more about me, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.