Author Topic: Isn't it Ironic?  (Read 3273 times)

blue_green_sparks

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Isn't it Ironic?
« on: October 27, 2019, 09:25:30 AM »
How US consumerism is holding up the economy as those in frugal pursuit of FI continue to benefit via investments? According to a commentator on Bloomberg TV; the US economy is 70% dependent upon the consumer. Contrast that with China at 40%. Well I did my part for years and then a mentor literally slapped me on the side of my head when I told him I was not investing in the 401K plan. Two commas later I was doing the same mentoring to all the young coworkers who would listen. Minus the physical slap of course.

politenessman

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2019, 10:34:47 AM »
It took me a long time to understand FI and FIRE in general. I'm in my mid 50s now and had been raised with the whole retire at 65 thing.
Since figuring this out I have corrupted two of my younger co workers. Both are now on the road to FIRE in their mid 40s.
I am very happy for them and slightly jealous that the get to retire at an age I wanted to retire at.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 10:54:27 AM »
Since figuring this out I have corrupted two of my younger co workers. Both are now on the road to FIRE in their mid 40s.

No doubt they will think of you as they realize their own financial freedom. I have a debt of gratitude towards my mentor of so many years ago. He was a 4 times over millionaire back in the late 80's. He advised my on cars and mortgages as well.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 12:41:51 PM »
I think it’s great that overconsumers are subsidizing our lifestyles. The best part is it’s all free choice. If you to turn over a new leaf and pursue FI, you can do it today. 

ChpBstrd

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2019, 09:21:18 AM »
There is the worry that millennials and generation Z will have an increasing savings rate, as they have so far tended to avoid cars and home ownership more than any previous generation, and often enter the workforce with five and six figure debts that previous generations did not face. Has anyone noticed how the average savings rate in the US has risen to about 8% from about 3% in the past decade?

If consumers in the US are slowly shifting toward Asian-level savings rates, the multi-decade stock market party might not continue forever. Perhaps it was driven by baby boomer overconsumption all along.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2019, 10:05:39 AM »
There is the worry that millennials and generation Z will have an increasing savings rate, as they have so far tended to avoid cars and home ownership more than any previous generation, and often enter the workforce with five and six figure debts that previous generations did not face. Has anyone noticed how the average savings rate in the US has risen to about 8% from about 3% in the past decade?

If consumers in the US are slowly shifting toward Asian-level savings rates, the multi-decade stock market party might not continue forever. Perhaps it was driven by baby boomer overconsumption all along.


This is a worry for sure. The majority of young males in my family have largely opted to not get married and live very "small" financial lives. Video games are a major preoccupation. Some of them are involved in the MGTOW philosophy. Then again a few of them are all in. Hard to tell how this will play out.

bwall

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2019, 11:00:34 AM »
No doubt they will think of you as they realize their own financial freedom. I have a debt of gratitude towards my mentor of so many years ago. He was a 4 times over millionaire back in the late 80's. He advised my on cars and mortgages as well.

How did you meet this mentor? If it was at work, then do you know why was he still working?

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2019, 02:15:52 PM »
No doubt they will think of you as they realize their own financial freedom. I have a debt of gratitude towards my mentor of so many years ago. He was a 4 times over millionaire back in the late 80's. He advised my on cars and mortgages as well.

How did you meet this mentor? If it was at work, then do you know why was he still working?

Yes, an older gentleman at work. He enjoyed his work (engineering) and mentoring young employees.  When he did retire a bit early (mid 50's, I think) he was excited about booking a trip around the world. College or family didn't teach me anything about handling money.

Jon Bon

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2019, 02:19:12 PM »
Don't you think......

marty998

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2019, 02:32:05 PM »
There is the worry that millennials and generation Z will have an increasing savings rate, as they have so far tended to avoid cars and home ownership more than any previous generation, and often enter the workforce with five and six figure debts that previous generations did not face. Has anyone noticed how the average savings rate in the US has risen to about 8% from about 3% in the past decade?

If consumers in the US are slowly shifting toward Asian-level savings rates, the multi-decade stock market party might not continue forever. Perhaps it was driven by baby boomer overconsumption all along.


This is a worry for sure. The majority of young males in my family have largely opted to not get married and live very "small" financial lives. Video games are a major preoccupation. Some of them are involved in the MGTOW philosophy. Then again a few of them are all in. Hard to tell how this will play out.

That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....

Or maybe I have this wrong and I should buy shares in console manufacturers and video game developers. Hmmm.

Bernard

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2019, 03:16:32 PM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

There's a difference between living a frugal lifestyle, watching video games and porn, versus getting married, buying a house, having children, and drive the latest automobiles. That's what's meant here . . .

DadJokes

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2019, 03:19:24 PM »
Don't you think......

It's like raaaaaaa-aaaaaain on your wedding day!

bacchi

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2019, 03:36:59 PM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

And this is why MGTOW is fucked up.

blue_green_sparks

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2019, 09:36:26 PM »

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


This has become a very common scenario amongst my circle of peeps..."failure to launch", or at least a late takeoff. I was reading that Japan has a lot of this going on. They are called 'parasite-singles'. I bet it doesn't help the NIKKEI 225.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/japan-parasite-singles-four-million-middle-age-parents-live-childbirth-rate-unmarried-unemployed-a7692256.html

Wrenchturner

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2019, 04:30:08 PM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

And this is why MGTOW is fucked up.

Huh?  I don't follow...

Gotta be careful when assessing young people.  How much of their non-consumerism is economic vs. social.  Are they opting out of houses or are they priced out?  Are they avoiding careers because it simply isn't worth it to commit/jobs are fleeting and dynamism is important?  Are they choosing experience over things or are they pessimistic about their long term prospects?  Probably some of all of the above; we'll see with house absorption and birth rates, among other things.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #15 on: October 29, 2019, 05:58:13 PM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

And this is why MGTOW is fucked up.

Messed up or not, agree with it or not, MGTOW is a growing issue.  I don't worry about the relatively few MGTOWs. What is more concerning is the larger number of young males who don't identify as MGTOW, but who believe that marriage and long term relationships with the opposite sex are a bad idea.  That's not at all good for the future of the economy or the society as a whole.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #16 on: October 30, 2019, 09:23:16 AM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

And this is why MGTOW is fucked up.

Messed up or not, agree with it or not, MGTOW is a growing issue.  I don't worry about the relatively few MGTOWs. What is more concerning is the larger number of young males who don't identify as MGTOW, but who believe that marriage and long term relationships with the opposite sex are a bad idea.  That's not at all good for the future of the economy or the society as a whole.

Had to look up MGTOW, and now I feel smarter for NOT originally knowing what it stood for, and dumber for now knowing.

This is obviously an attempt to justify one’s failure to launch or to rebrand oneself as a victim or conscientious objector rather than someone who failed to accomplish what one perceives the cultural norms say one should accomplish.

However, I think the larger lesson is to be careful about measuring generation #2 by the metrics that mattered to generation #1. The draft dodgers of the Vietnam era were considered failures by the WW2 generation, doomed to live lives of shame and mediocrity, but this was actually a survival strategy that made a sense at the time and worked well in the end. Not only did the draft dodgers not end up dead or disabled, but they also experienced more success than those who conformed to cultural norms. 3 of the last 4 presidents of the US were draft dodgers. Meanwhile one of the word associations with “veteran” is now “homeless”.

Gen X and millennials grew up in mortgaged suburban homes where oftentimes the parents either divorced or should have. They don’t all want to repeat that life, particularly now that housing affordability is so bad in so many areas and now that screen addiction makes the maintenance of close romantic relationships very difficult (teens now spend an average of over 7 hours a day using phones/ tablets. Not a lot of time to be present for a SO.). Like the draft dodgers, they see following the previous generations’ cultural norms as a risky and futile endeavor. Instead of one counterculture as the baby boomers had, today’s young adults have fractured into thousands of internet subcultures, incels and FIRE movement included, with their own rules and status symbols that are easier to achieve than the old standards.

In terms of investing, we must brace our portfolios for the possibility of a future without “mass demand” for the things once assumed to be universally desired: houses, weddings, cars, vacations, full time jobs, luxury status symbols, decorations, bank accounts and all existing forms of entertainment. All these former universals will be niche markets. We must also brace ourselves for a future in which our leaders will be the ones who “won the game” by eschewing much of what was previously considered important. Pewdiepie for president? Stranger things have happened.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #17 on: October 30, 2019, 10:55:55 AM »

Had to look up MGTOW, and now I feel smarter for NOT originally knowing what it stood for, and dumber for now knowing.

This is obviously an attempt to justify one’s failure to launch or to rebrand oneself as a victim or conscientious objector rather than someone who failed to accomplish what one perceives the cultural norms say one should accomplish.

However, I think the larger lesson is to be careful about measuring generation #2 by the metrics that mattered to generation #1. The draft dodgers of the Vietnam era were considered failures by the WW2 generation, doomed to live lives of shame and mediocrity, but this was actually a survival strategy that made a sense at the time and worked well in the end. Not only did the draft dodgers not end up dead or disabled, but they also experienced more success than those who conformed to cultural norms. 3 of the last 4 presidents of the US were draft dodgers. Meanwhile one of the word associations with “veteran” is now “homeless”.

Gen X and millennials grew up in mortgaged suburban homes where oftentimes the parents either divorced or should have. They don’t all want to repeat that life, particularly now that housing affordability is so bad in so many areas and now that screen addiction makes the maintenance of close romantic relationships very difficult (teens now spend an average of over 7 hours a day using phones/ tablets. Not a lot of time to be present for a SO.). Like the draft dodgers, they see following the previous generations’ cultural norms as a risky and futile endeavor. Instead of one counterculture as the baby boomers had, today’s young adults have fractured into thousands of internet subcultures, incels and FIRE movement included, with their own rules and status symbols that are easier to achieve than the old standards.

In terms of investing, we must brace our portfolios for the possibility of a future without “mass demand” for the things once assumed to be universally desired: houses, weddings, cars, vacations, full time jobs, luxury status symbols, decorations, bank accounts and all existing forms of entertainment. All these former universals will be niche markets. We must also brace ourselves for a future in which our leaders will be the ones who “won the game” by eschewing much of what was previously considered important. Pewdiepie for president? Stranger things have happened.

Yeah. Sorry about that. I should’ve added a caveat that MGTOW is like Kim Kardashian: you’re better off being ignorant of them.

We’re living in very odd times of hyper anti-traditionalism. People in the West are glorying in and being glorified for destroying and subverting traditions. Usually without much consideration of why those traditions evolved in the first place. So yes, I think it’s highly likely that mass markets will become niche markets. In the very long term though, I believe economics is less about markets and more about demographics. That’s where I think traditions ultimately are important.

Wrenchturner

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #18 on: October 30, 2019, 12:22:29 PM »
I think there's a sort of trickle-down diminishing returns going on that has led to a reduction in faith in traditional systems and perhaps this is hitting young men hard.  Could be the loss of blue collar work as well which was good for men who might otherwise GTOW.  And an ever increasing need for responsible people is adding to the problem.

We are more aware of our shortcomings as a society and more exposed through social media than ever before.  Maybe you can throw Piketty's work in there too, I think the economy is a big factor in the loss of faith we're seeing.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #19 on: October 30, 2019, 12:37:49 PM »

Had to look up MGTOW, and now I feel smarter for NOT originally knowing what it stood for, and dumber for now knowing.

This is obviously an attempt to justify one’s failure to launch or to rebrand oneself as a victim or conscientious objector rather than someone who failed to accomplish what one perceives the cultural norms say one should accomplish.

However, I think the larger lesson is to be careful about measuring generation #2 by the metrics that mattered to generation #1. The draft dodgers of the Vietnam era were considered failures by the WW2 generation, doomed to live lives of shame and mediocrity, but this was actually a survival strategy that made a sense at the time and worked well in the end. Not only did the draft dodgers not end up dead or disabled, but they also experienced more success than those who conformed to cultural norms. 3 of the last 4 presidents of the US were draft dodgers. Meanwhile one of the word associations with “veteran” is now “homeless”.

Gen X and millennials grew up in mortgaged suburban homes where oftentimes the parents either divorced or should have. They don’t all want to repeat that life, particularly now that housing affordability is so bad in so many areas and now that screen addiction makes the maintenance of close romantic relationships very difficult (teens now spend an average of over 7 hours a day using phones/ tablets. Not a lot of time to be present for a SO.). Like the draft dodgers, they see following the previous generations’ cultural norms as a risky and futile endeavor. Instead of one counterculture as the baby boomers had, today’s young adults have fractured into thousands of internet subcultures, incels and FIRE movement included, with their own rules and status symbols that are easier to achieve than the old standards.

In terms of investing, we must brace our portfolios for the possibility of a future without “mass demand” for the things once assumed to be universally desired: houses, weddings, cars, vacations, full time jobs, luxury status symbols, decorations, bank accounts and all existing forms of entertainment. All these former universals will be niche markets. We must also brace ourselves for a future in which our leaders will be the ones who “won the game” by eschewing much of what was previously considered important. Pewdiepie for president? Stranger things have happened.

Yeah. Sorry about that. I should’ve added a caveat that MGTOW is like Kim Kardashian: you’re better off being ignorant of them.

We’re living in very odd times of hyper anti-traditionalism. People in the West are glorying in and being glorified for destroying and subverting traditions. Usually without much consideration of why those traditions evolved in the first place. So yes, I think it’s highly likely that mass markets will become niche markets. In the very long term though, I believe economics is less about markets and more about demographics. That’s where I think traditions ultimately are important.

At some point the tipping point arrives and it becomes more costly to follow traditions than it is to break them. It’s a function of the environment I think.

The people who abandoned their homes to foreclosure in 2008-09 received a lot of vitriol online for breaking the norm of paying back one’s debts and had their credit ruined for a while, but in exchange they walked away from housing deals where they were six figures underwater. Breaking the norm was a financially optimal decision.

Similarly, when sizing up the choice between a marriage and a series of relationships arranged through dating apps, one must bear in mind the growing socially expected cost of a wedding (what is it now? $40k?), a ring, the risks of enduring disappointment, and the probable cost of an eventual divorce. Meanwhile the cost of the alternative is dropping daily, thanks to tech adoption and changing norms.

These kinds of things resemble a crowded trade in the markets, where the price of an asset gets so high due to widespread interest that eventually the value cannot be justified by the marginal investor. If a traditional lifestyle (married, suburban house, two SUVs, pets, a lawn service, etc) now requires two people to go $70k in student loan debt - each - to earn enough working 70 hour weeks commute included to be able to borrow a half million to buy the suburban ranch house and another $70k for the SUVs, only to get divorced at 40 and lose it all like everyone else... well at some point a better life can be expected from what were once considered alternative lifestyles. Suburban families made a lot more sense in the era when a single high-school educated worker could support a household. Today the price is much much higher, and people’s adaptations to high prices have a certain logic. They have no choice.


JGS1980

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #20 on: October 30, 2019, 02:03:35 PM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

And this is why MGTOW is fucked up.

Messed up or not, agree with it or not, MGTOW is a growing issue.  I don't worry about the relatively few MGTOWs. What is more concerning is the larger number of young males who don't identify as MGTOW, but who believe that marriage and long term relationships with the opposite sex are a bad idea.  That's not at all good for the future of the economy or the society as a whole.

I'd like to remind everyone here that Mustachianism is also Closet Environmentalism.  If these MGTOW couch jockeys choose to not engage in the economy and never leave their basements and never have children --> this blue green planet of ours will only benefit. As I don't see more than 10% of warm blooded hetero males being able to voluntarily forego sex for all their lives, alas, it is but a pipe dream.

In addition, I'd like to add that if these lost souls are so dense as to believe all this bullshit, perhaps society would be better off without them reproducing anyway.

JGS

P.S. Really like the 3 of the last 4 Presidents were Draft Dodgers quote. Gonna steal that one CHPBASTARD

marty998

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #21 on: October 30, 2019, 02:10:25 PM »
Quote
That is such a toxic subculture and should be called out for what it is. Misogynistic rubbish.

Curious to know how does one live a "small" financial life as an adult? Unless they live in their parents basements forever (playing video games), they are going to get jobs, rent/buy property, pay for groceries....


Here in the Land of the Brave and Free, it has become increasingly dangerous for a man to be alone with a woman in a professional environment. Years later she all of a sudden may "remember" that you made sexual advances on her, whether that's true or not, and your life will be turned upside down.

And this is why MGTOW is fucked up.

Messed up or not, agree with it or not, MGTOW is a growing issue.  I don't worry about the relatively few MGTOWs. What is more concerning is the larger number of young males who don't identify as MGTOW, but who believe that marriage and long term relationships with the opposite sex are a bad idea.  That's not at all good for the future of the economy or the society as a whole.

I'd like to remind everyone here that Mustachianism is also Closet Environmentalism.  If these MGTOW couch jockeys choose to not engage in the economy and never leave their basements and never have children --> this blue green planet of ours will only benefit. As I don't see more than 10% of warm blooded hetero males being able to voluntarily forego sex for all their lives, alas, it is but a pipe dream.

In addition, I'd like to add that if these lost souls are so dense as to believe all this bullshit, perhaps society would be better off without them reproducing anyway.

Wonderful observation. You'd like to think MGTOW culture is not hereditary.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #22 on: October 30, 2019, 02:22:48 PM »

Yeah. Sorry about that. I should’ve added a caveat that MGTOW is like Kim Kardashian: you’re better off being ignorant of them.

We’re living in very odd times of hyper anti-traditionalism. People in the West are glorying in and being glorified for destroying and subverting traditions. Usually without much consideration of why those traditions evolved in the first place. So yes, I think it’s highly likely that mass markets will become niche markets. In the very long term though, I believe economics is less about markets and more about demographics. That’s where I think traditions ultimately are important.

At some point the tipping point arrives and it becomes more costly to follow traditions than it is to break them. It’s a function of the environment I think.

The people who abandoned their homes to foreclosure in 2008-09 received a lot of vitriol online for breaking the norm of paying back one’s debts and had their credit ruined for a while, but in exchange they walked away from housing deals where they were six figures underwater. Breaking the norm was a financially optimal decision.

Similarly, when sizing up the choice between a marriage and a series of relationships arranged through dating apps, one must bear in mind the growing socially expected cost of a wedding (what is it now? $40k?), a ring, the risks of enduring disappointment, and the probable cost of an eventual divorce. Meanwhile the cost of the alternative is dropping daily, thanks to tech adoption and changing norms.

These kinds of things resemble a crowded trade in the markets, where the price of an asset gets so high due to widespread interest that eventually the value cannot be justified by the marginal investor. If a traditional lifestyle (married, suburban house, two SUVs, pets, a lawn service, etc) now requires two people to go $70k in student loan debt - each - to earn enough working 70 hour weeks commute included to be able to borrow a half million to buy the suburban ranch house and another $70k for the SUVs, only to get divorced at 40 and lose it all like everyone else... well at some point a better life can be expected from what were once considered alternative lifestyles. Suburban families made a lot more sense in the era when a single high-school educated worker could support a household. Today the price is much much higher, and people’s adaptations to high prices have a certain logic. They have no choice.

@ChpBstrd - I usually get a kick out of your perspective.  Thanks for the reply.

In response: mindlessly following traditions isn't optimal by any means.  The marriage tradition is there because that is one of the more efficient ways to have and raise children. And having children is necessary for the continuation of a society.  The Shakers had some interesting ideas, but that whole celibacy thing just didn't work out for them in the long run. Western societies are looking at much the same end result over time, albeit at a more subtle rate: declining birthrates ensure that in the very long run, your society and culture aren't going to be there. In the shorter term, declining birthrates also mean a lower ceiling on GDP growth.  The new normal in the US and the west is somewhere around 2%, which would be considered anemic in the past. Some of the frippery that surrounds contemporary marriage is definitely silly, such as the $40K party and the $70K SUV, but that doesn't mean that the underlying tradition should be discarded as it generally has been (except amongst the well-off).

Keeping to the economics of it, this does give a clear idea of where our investments should be in the very long term. Namely those areas with robust populations and the cultural norms that favor growing or stable populations. More consumption and more irony.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2019, 02:31:01 PM »
Ideologies that blame another category of people for all the world’s dissatisfactions inevitably end up as justifications for crime against the scapegoats. That is true for racial supremacism, antisemitism, and communism. Misogynistic internet ideologues will just become rapists if they aren’t already.

Buffaloski Boris

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #24 on: October 30, 2019, 02:46:05 PM »

I'd like to remind everyone here that Mustachianism is also Closet Environmentalism.  If these MGTOW couch jockeys choose to not engage in the economy and never leave their basements and never have children --> this blue green planet of ours will only benefit. As I don't see more than 10% of warm blooded hetero males being able to voluntarily forego sex for all their lives, alas, it is but a pipe dream.

In addition, I'd like to add that if these lost souls are so dense as to believe all this bullshit, perhaps society would be better off without them reproducing anyway.

JGS

P.S. Really like the 3 of the last 4 Presidents were Draft Dodgers quote. Gonna steal that one CHPBASTARD

They really are a sad bunch. Problem is some part of what they have to say has the stink of the truth for a larger audience who see that because they're right on premise "A", that wild-eyed solution "B" might somehow be reasonable or desirable. OK, I happen to agree that US divorce laws are very one-sided and generally suck. It doesn't follow that because that's arguably true that you should swear off relationships with women and only have sex with prostitutes. Or maybe I missed part of the logic here?

As for Mustachians being closet environmentalists, thanks for mentioning that.  I'll be sure to remind folks that I'm a Certified Closet Environmentalist the next time I talk about my investment portfolio.  LOL!     

Exflyboy

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2019, 01:01:25 AM »
Seems to me the hetro males I know that do breed really shouldn't!.. Thinking mostly of the bottom feeders in DWs family here.

Having said that.. They make great consumers as far as their limited incomes from the Government benefits (that I pay for) provide.

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2019, 11:54:34 PM »
Well, somebody has to buy those products :).

That said, I do like MMM's vision - if everyone simply needs less goods, then quality of living actually increases for everyone.

ThatGuy

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2019, 09:47:06 AM »
Don't you think......

It's like raaaaaaa-aaaaaain on your wedding day!

I see what you did there. :)

EscapedApe

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2019, 10:31:20 AM »
I'd like to remind everyone here that Mustachianism is also Closet Environmentalism.

There's no need to sling insults LOL.

EscapedApe

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2019, 10:35:07 AM »
Ideologies that blame another category of people for all the world’s dissatisfactions inevitably end up as justifications for crime against the scapegoats. That is true for racial supremacism, antisemitism, and communism. Misogynistic internet ideologues will just become rapists if they aren’t already.

Pretty much.

People do what they are incentivized to do.

And the corollary to this is: if there are benefits and drawbacks to being labeled by society, and society labels you and inflicts the drawbacks on you, then you are likely going to become that way in order to claim the benefits - if only to offset the drawbacks.

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Re: Isn't it Ironic?
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2019, 01:33:31 AM »
But I think it's important to keep in mind that the people going FI is probably like 0.1%. So the 70% might drop down to 69.9%. I keep seeing people be concerned about the idea that "oh, if enough people do this, then maybe investing will lose its appeal cause they won't sell as much."

But we're a long way from that.