Author Topic: Is Tesla a good investment?  (Read 301526 times)

jnw

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1723
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2000 on: May 21, 2023, 03:37:59 AM »
No, I am not going to ignore Elon, he's the CEO Tesla, the topic of this thread, and has caused a lot of problems for Tesla with his divisiveness, which affect shareholders, which is why I don't think it's a good investment.  (I'll NEVER ignore Elon, I have an eye on him always, he's the richest guy on planet and the most divisive CEO I've ever seen in my life.)

I am done with this though.  I've always treated everyone with respect here.  I'm allowed to converse with people here; it's not my problem if you think I'm too assertive.

In a past thread you mentioned; I did exactly that: STOPPED. I stopped because the guy got all upset at me out of no where --shocked me really-- and said he wanted the last word and I said, "alrighty" and I let him have it.  And I was so polite in this thread a couple posts ago, apologizing for upsetting people and said I was done.

So yeah I'll say it again: I respect you all and I'm done here. Peace.


« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 04:36:43 AM by jnw »

Valley of Plenty

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Pennsylvania
  • Toss a Coin to Your Net Worth
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2001 on: May 21, 2023, 04:45:10 AM »
No, I am not going to ignore Elon, he's the CEO Tesla, the topic of this thread, and has caused a lot of problems for Tesla with his divisiveness, which affect shareholders, which is why I don't think it's a good investment.  (I'll NEVER ignore Elon, I have an eye on him always, he's the richest guy on planet and the most divisive CEO I've ever seen in my life.)

I am done with this though.  I've always treated everyone with respect here.  I'm allowed to converse with people here; it's not my problem if you think I'm too assertive.

In a past thread you mentioned; I did exactly that: STOPPED. I stopped because the guy got all upset at me out of no where --shocked me really-- and said he wanted the last word and I said, "alrighty" and I let him have it.  And I was so polite in this thread a couple posts ago, apologizing for upsetting people and said I was done.

So yeah I'll say it again: I respect you all and I'm done here. Peace.

I was just trying to advise you on how you could perhaps reduce your time spent being stressed online. Your "assertiveness" does not bother me at all, and if it did I would simply not engage in discussions with you.

If you'd like I can give you a list of every rich and powerful loud person that I know of with problematic takes, if you really think your time and energy is best served by keeping tabs on rich people with questionable ethics. There's certainly enough of them to keep you busy 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 04:47:28 AM by Valley of Plenty »

jnw

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1723
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2002 on: May 21, 2023, 04:49:38 AM »
I was just trying to advise you on how you could perhaps reduce your time spent being stressed online.
Well I don't need any psychological advice; but if you were being sincere then I respect that you were trying to be kind to me.  I come here to chat about financially related things. [Saying, "I'm done here", means I am done here related to the topic of this thread -- which doesn't preclude me from replying to comments or questions about my character or mental state -- although I rather not talk about this since it is off topic.]

If you'd like I can give you a list of every rich and powerful person that I know of with problematic takes, if you really think your time and energy is best served by keeping tabs on rich people with questionable ethics. There's certainly enough of them to keep you busy 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
I respect your last words and viewpoint -- my lips are zipped. 🤐🤗


« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 05:41:17 AM by jnw »

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6072
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2003 on: May 21, 2023, 07:50:44 AM »
Okay well let's just agree to disagree okay? I don't want to continue going on about this. It's giving me anxiety. I've said what I felt I needed to say answering the OPs question.
You lied about what I said, and when I demanded you quote me, you became evasive.  You refused to quote me - because I never said what you claimed.  You put words in my mouth, lying about what I said, and you refuse to correct that mistake.  If you stand by your original comment, quote where I said this:

And I'm saddened that I upset you but: You made a statement that he didn't invest in politics, and I explained that you were overlooking the $44B he spent on twitter.
Don't lie about what I said.  Quote where I said what you claimed.
For the third time, where did I say this?  If you can't produce evidence I said something, that's because you're wrong.  It's not agreeing to disagree - you said something false, trying to put words in my mouth.  That is wrong, and you are wrong.  Now will you admit you're wrong, or will you provide evidence of what I said?

jnw

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1723
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2004 on: May 21, 2023, 07:57:15 AM »
Why are you repeating yourself over and over? I've clearly explained everything. I didn't lie about anything, I explained I misunderstood you. Go back a couple posts and read.

This is what I wrote. I explained I misunderstood you.  It's back like 4 posts:

BTW: You misunderstand what I meant when I said "sorry for the misunderstanding". I said that b/c I didn't understand why you blew up on me claiming I was dramatic, so I presumed you were upset about my response of Elon buying twitter.  You expressed that you weren't upset by it so I apologized for misunderstanding. (But in reality you do seem upset about from what you wrote about it in your last post.)
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 08:16:12 AM by jnw »

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6072
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2005 on: May 21, 2023, 08:56:45 AM »
You made a statement that he didn't invest in politics
You really don't understand what this sentence means?  You claim I "made a statement", and the lie comes next: "he didn't invest in politics".  Those are the words you have ignored over and over, pretending it is something else.  Claiming I said "You made a statement that he didn't invest in politics" is a lie, not a misunderstanding or something else.


I've clearly explained everything. I didn't lie about anything, I explained I misunderstood you.
I don't need your explanation, because I have your exact words: "he didn't invest in politics", which you cannot explain away.  I did not misunderstand "You made a statement that he didn't invest in politics", which is what you claim.  You are wrong and unable to admit it.


...
And I was so polite in this thread a couple posts ago, apologizing for upsetting people and said I was done.

So yeah I'll say it again: I respect you all and I'm done here. Peace.
In case it escapes you, you said you were done, twice, and then continued.  Being wrong about your own behavior while being unable to admit you're wrong is a odd combination.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 08:59:25 AM by MustacheAndaHalf »

jnw

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1723
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2006 on: May 21, 2023, 09:52:30 AM »
Elon is not an elected official or policy maker. He doesnít spend large sums trying to influence elections like the Koch brothers or George Soros.

I just scrolled back and re-read the conversation thread. Sorry I apologize, I thought you said it but it was ColoradoTribe instead. I got you two mixed up.  So I thought that was the reason you were upset at me.  But it was a different person.  I was replying to him and you replied right after, and I got confused and thought you were him I guess.

But I see why you were upset and frustrated at me. Because I had you confused with someone else.  I'm really sorry for my confusion & the mix up.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2023, 10:19:28 AM by jnw »

AdrianC

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Location: Cincinnati
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2007 on: May 22, 2023, 07:11:55 AM »
Well, that was funÖback to Tesla. I see we can buy a $35k Model 3 again, so thatís very cool.

https://electrek.co/2023/05/19/tesla-discounts-inventory-cars/

My local Tesla shop has inventory. Test drove one and liked it a lot. The RWD entry level model has more performance than I need.
Nice car. Still expensive compared to our Bolt ($24k in 2021, $21k now with tax incentives). Not any more useful than the Bolt to us.
Be a lot more attractive as a hatchback.

Maybe someone knows: can you get a road bike in the trunk of a Model 3 fairly easily? With the Bolt I get my 50cm road bike in without taking a wheel out.

Also drove a Y LR. Definitely more than we need. A rear-wheel drive Y with 250 mile range would be ideal. Maybe that's what this is:

https://electrek.co/2023/05/16/tesla-teases-next-car-new-image/

Tesla has teased its next electric car with a new image of the silhouette, and Elon Musk says it is already being built.

$40k with $7500 tax credit would be very attractive.

Then I'd just have to get past the Elon ick factor, which is very, very strong right now. I really do not want people to think I support the opinions of that man.

On topic, Elon has said the Telsa investment thesis hangs on self-driving. Makes sense to me.

mistymoney

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2008 on: May 26, 2023, 10:39:59 AM »
interesting development!

Quote
Tesla has agreed to let owners of Ford Motor electric vehicles use Tesla's extensive network of superchargers in the U.S. beginning in 2024. Investors love the idea. There are good reasons for that.

The charging collaboration was announced by Ford (ticker: F) CEO Jim Farley and Tesla (TSLA) CEO Elon Musk Thursday evening on Twitter Spaces. The pair talked about the deal and EVs for about 30 minutes and took a few questions too.

Ford drivers using Tesla chargers "will not be cost-prohibitive," said Musk at one point, adding that only an adapter is needed for Ford to plug into Tesla charging stalls. Farley said he was open to other areas collaboration between the two firms, including EV-related software.

Wall street seemed to very much like this news.....

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Texas
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2009 on: May 26, 2023, 11:54:26 AM »
Having North America consolidate to using the Tesla/NACS charging connector is a big win for consumers. The CCS networks are a haphazard, unreliable mess.

EchoStache

  • Pencil Stache
  • ****
  • Posts: 566
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2010 on: May 26, 2023, 12:08:21 PM »
Tesla Model Y was the number one selling vehicle in the world Q1 2023.

Paper Chaser

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1605
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2011 on: May 26, 2023, 01:44:14 PM »
https://jalopnik.com/whistleblower-drops-100-gigabytes-of-tesla-secrets-to-g-1850476542

The safety concerns listed here seem kind of expected to me, but the cultural approach to the problem seems concerning to me.

https://jalopnik.com/emails-show-elon-musk-was-directly-involved-in-staged-s-1850011842


mistymoney

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2012 on: May 26, 2023, 01:55:06 PM »
Tesla Model Y was the number one selling vehicle in the world Q1 2023.

wow! did not know that!  {eta.....maybe i did know??? seems familar....but could be confused with hearing it was the most sold model for a particular country.....}

Something has really shifted, I see teslas on the road all the time now. I used to count them as a game, but its become too average an occurrence. On the highway a week or two ago, 3 lanes going north it was me and two other teslas abreast, one would have thought we coordinated it!
« Last Edit: May 26, 2023, 04:47:07 PM by mistymoney »

ColoradoTribe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 318
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2013 on: May 26, 2023, 03:05:44 PM »
When/where Tesla opened up itís charging network to other EV owners (individuals) Tesla charged subscriptions fees and/or charged premiums for the electricity.

Assuming this applies to Fordís EV customers and you start to get a sense of how Tesla will be monetizing the supercharger network going further. Ford just gained a competitive advantage over its ICE legacy competitors.  Fordís partnership will only accelerate Teslaís investment in the supercharger network. Buy in or build your own fast charging network. Not much of a choice.

waltworks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5484
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2014 on: May 26, 2023, 03:34:52 PM »
3 or 4 years ago my older 2 kids thought it was really fun to look for Teslas and have a daily/weekly/etc competition to see who spotted the most (they were 6 and 4 at the time).

Now you could not possibly do that and keep count, I see half a dozen one the 1 commute to school on a typical morning.

Rivians are getting to common to be fun too...

-Walt

Valley of Plenty

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 306
  • Age: 28
  • Location: Pennsylvania
  • Toss a Coin to Your Net Worth
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2015 on: May 29, 2023, 06:52:14 PM »
Tesla Model Y was the number one selling vehicle in the world Q1 2023.

wow! did not know that!  {eta.....maybe i did know??? seems familar....but could be confused with hearing it was the most sold model for a particular country.....}

Something has really shifted, I see teslas on the road all the time now. I used to count them as a game, but its become too average an occurrence. On the highway a week or two ago, 3 lanes going north it was me and two other teslas abreast, one would have thought we coordinated it!

They are still a pretty rare sight in my neighborhood, but that's to be expected given how rural of an area I live in. There is only one Tesla charging station within 20 miles of my house.

I would guess in my town there are 20-30 diesel pickup trucks for every 1 EV of any kind

Scandium

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 2648
  • Location: EastCoast
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2016 on: May 30, 2023, 08:43:33 AM »
Every CEO (and person) is entitled to their own opinion, and frankly I don't care what CEO's think of privately.  But to make very public deeply polarizing statements, one after another, continually, is beyond stupid. I have never seen a CEO of a large company do this.  It will affect the sales so that's why I think TSLA isn't a good investment.  Look at what AB did recently, and they flip flopped and now NO ONE wants to buy their beer; recently saw a promo code on Doctor of Credit that AB was offering free Bud Light.  Leave politics out of business. It only hurts things.  (Warren Buffet said a year or so ago at a meeting, that politics has no place in business; it's his policy to remain neutral.)

You may think what Elon says deserves only a slap on the wrist, but I don't think you see it from the perspective of the other half of the country; what he says may not be that bad to you but extremely hurtful to many others.  He says unforgivable things continually.  He's a very divisive loose cannon.  No thanks.

A smart business owner would want to maximize the profits for himself and the rest of the shareholders.  He (or she) would find ways he could appeal to everyone, maximizing sales.  Not say things which drive away half of the customer base.  It doesn't matter if you are republican, democrat or independent, everyone deserves respect. But a CEO calling half of the people in this country names and suggesting they be imprisoned isn't respectful at all, and frankly stupid.

Sorry, but this is BS. As is often noted in these types of discussions, sticking to the "status quo" is by default promoting the conservative position, since that is in favor of existing power structures. There's no viable way of avoiding politics. When conservative/reactionaries become psychotic when a company even acknowledge the existence of a group, they can't "avoid politics". Either AB will (continue) to not mention that group, which implicitly promote the right's genocidal position towards these marginalized groups. Or AB will include LGBTQ people in their ads (or otherwise acknowledge their existence) which the right calls "become involved in politics". Just as easily one could say AB can't have ads with black people, since that will offend the white nationalist/klan types. If all beer ads only feature white, hetro/cis men are they "avoiding politics"? How do you think anyone not in that group feels about it then? (Will a black woman who drinks bud say: "I'm so glad AB are staying out of politics by only having white men in their ads"??)

The old joke; there are two types of people: white (straight), and "political". What is a non-political beer ad these days? The reactionaries get hysterically mad about gay people on TV, black Disney characters, (too many) white men being the bad guy, etc etc. Hell, some go real old school and complain about interracial relationships! All they have is grievance-obsessed (white) identity politics, there is no way to not engage with this, either through silence or inclusion. Both actions supporting one of the sides. Especially not while as you say "trying to appeal to the widest possible market".
« Last Edit: May 30, 2023, 08:45:38 AM by Scandium »

shinn497

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2017 on: May 30, 2023, 11:17:43 AM »
Elon is not an elected official or policy maker. He doesnít spend large sums trying to influence elections like the Koch brothers or George Soros.

I just scrolled back and re-read the conversation thread. Sorry I apologize, I thought you said it but it was ColoradoTribe instead. I got you two mixed up.  So I thought that was the reason you were upset at me.  But it was a different person.  I was replying to him and you replied right after, and I got confused and thought you were him I guess.

But I see why you were upset and frustrated at me. Because I had you confused with someone else.  I'm really sorry for my confusion & the mix up.

George Soros!

shinn497

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2018 on: May 30, 2023, 11:21:44 AM »
So yeah. Has anyone been following youtubers like Farzad Mesbahi ? They have made me very excited for the future of Tesla. I think if Tesla can crack the 25k mark, it will be done for all legacy auto. We will still see some high end manfucturers. And some that have invested in EVsm =, like Kia and Chevy/Ford might remain. But I think it will be a blood bath. I know Toyota and Honda are popular now, but they have really dropped the ball on EVs, and might get slaughtered.

I also think that the future value of Optimus, Full Self Driving, and AI is going to be unreal.

mistymoney

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1941
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2019 on: May 30, 2023, 12:28:00 PM »
So yeah. Has anyone been following youtubers like Farzad Mesbahi ? They have made me very excited for the future of Tesla. I think if Tesla can crack the 25k mark, it will be done for all legacy auto. We will still see some high end manfucturers. And some that have invested in EVsm =, like Kia and Chevy/Ford might remain. But I think it will be a blood bath. I know Toyota and Honda are popular now, but they have really dropped the ball on EVs, and might get slaughtered.

I also think that the future value of Optimus, Full Self Driving, and AI is going to be unreal.

been trying to follow the AI news and see what companies will be key players and which among those are investable. Tesla is rarely if ever mentioned.

What was your take on the Tesla side of AI? In terms of capturing AI upside?

shinn497

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 446
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2020 on: May 30, 2023, 12:51:25 PM »
I think the market will not price in Tesla as an AI play until Full Self Driving is viable, which, honestly, it is not right now.

The issue is that FSD is a long tail problem. It is trivially easy to get ~80% of situations. Decently hard to get 99.9% of solutions, but those .1% are all really hard edge cases. I suggest paying attention to youtube channels like dirty tesla to get a sense of where the tech is. It is certainly improving, but the jury is out on if it will be true true self driving.

I think if there is hope for FSD being something monetizable, it will first be geofenced. There already are AI cars being used in Vegas and SF. So it does seem possible for Tesla to allow just those locations to be used for robotaxis.

One thing I think people aren't talking about is tesla's investment into Dojo. I do question, if that is a good idea, since nVidia is making some intense strides into development hardware. This decoupling from nVidia could be why Tesla is not currently tracking, as they are redoing the research and product dev nVidia is currently doing.

I've been following Gary Black, and he puts TSLA at a 320 price target in 6-12 months. I Think that is reasonable. That is dependant on the effect of advertisement, the cybertruck launch, Twitter positive cash flow, and the roll out of the compact model. If we can get a compact model, with decamillion deliveries, I would personally value that at like 500$/share. I think that happens within 4 years.

If we get true FSD, that is monetizable, then you are looking at 4 digit share price numbers. And more if it gets implemented into optimus. But, of course, that is very speculative.

AdrianC

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1177
  • Location: Cincinnati
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2021 on: May 31, 2023, 05:44:59 AM »
Interesting article about current and upcoming Tesla production lines:

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/97788-tesla-rethinks-the-assembly-line

ChpBstrd

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5413
  • Location: A poor and backward Southern state known as minimum wage country
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2022 on: May 31, 2023, 07:29:37 AM »
Isn't it interesting how the Tesla narrative is shifting from cars to A.I. at exactly the same time the financial media is cranking out pieces about AI and when potential AI chip maker NVDA is up 174% YTD to a PE ratio of 200.

waltworks

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5484
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2023 on: May 31, 2023, 11:59:45 AM »
So yeah. Has anyone been following youtubers like Farzad Mesbahi ? They have made me very excited for the future of Tesla. I think if Tesla can crack the 25k mark, it will be done for all legacy auto. We will still see some high end manfucturers. And some that have invested in EVsm =, like Kia and Chevy/Ford might remain. But I think it will be a blood bath. I know Toyota and Honda are popular now, but they have really dropped the ball on EVs, and might get slaughtered.

I also think that the future value of Optimus, Full Self Driving, and AI is going to be unreal.

For regulatory/nationalist reasons, there is zero chance that Tesla will end up driving Ford/Toyota/etc out of business.

Hell, we didn't let GM go out of business just 15 years ago, and they were just doing a bad job making cars/had too much debt.

-W

ColoradoTribe

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 318
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2024 on: May 31, 2023, 03:50:40 PM »
Isn't it interesting how the Tesla narrative is shifting from cars to A.I. at exactly the same time the financial media is cranking out pieces about AI and when potential AI chip maker NVDA is up 174% YTD to a PE ratio of 200.

It is interesting that the world is finally waking up to the fact that Tesla is more than just a car company, like those in the know have been saying for years. Ford has woken up to realize Tesla's lead in charging tech and infrastructure is insurmountable.

Tesla will continue to execute on its plans and make steady progress regardless of how the media chooses to cover the company. For those just realizing the Tesla is also an AI company, welcome to the present state of realty.

« Last Edit: May 31, 2023, 11:45:19 PM by ColoradoTribe »

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Texas
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2025 on: May 31, 2023, 06:16:19 PM »
Isn't it interesting
I find it quite interesting that you abandoned the thread when your last sniping was taken apart and have decided to just try some other tactic.

Curious.

TomTX

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 5267
  • Location: Texas
Re: Is Tesla a good investment?
« Reply #2026 on: May 31, 2023, 06:19:13 PM »
Interesting article about current and upcoming Tesla production lines:

https://www.assemblymag.com/articles/97788-tesla-rethinks-the-assembly-line
Being willing to kick over the status quo is one of Tesla's great strengths and great weaknesses. Gigacastings are a big win. The original attempt to highly automate Fremont was a failure. Etc.