Author Topic: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?  (Read 2846 times)

MasonL

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Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« on: April 07, 2022, 11:45:04 AM »
I am at the beginning of my financial independence journey, and perfectly understand the concept of indexing and putting your faith in the market as a whole, as opposed to a lot of my friends who brag about picking individual stocks.  However, I'm questioning Vanguard as the vehicle to do that.  I just don't find their interface to be that user friendly; I think it's a bit complicated.  I've heard a lot about Schwab and their platform.  Has anyone had any experience using them for indexing and is it worth doing?  I believe they have expense ratios around 0.03% or so, even though Vanguard is technically "investor-owned." 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 11:51:52 AM by MasonL »

nalor511

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2022, 11:56:00 AM »
Schwab's (and also Fidelity) platform and customer service (live-chat, secure-email) are far superior to Vanguard. Vanguard's funds are marginally superior to Schwab's. The best answer is to buy Vanguard funds at Schwab (or Fidelity). You will pay a fee ($75?) to purchase outside MF shares at Schwab (or Fidelity), but there is zero fee to buy Vanguard ETFs. So, buy VTI, VXUS, or whatever Vanguard ETFs you like at Schwab (or Fidelity) and get the best of both worlds.

Edited: bonus, there's a physical branch if you (or your heirs) ever need one
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 01:01:42 PM by nalor511 »

cool7hand

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2022, 12:09:45 PM »
We like Schwab. The fees are low. They offer their own low-fee index funds, plus those from other vendors including Vanguard. We found a local branch office advisor who is pretty sophisticated and gets our goals. He helped us kick the tires on whether to use insurance products to max out my wife's pension. As I recall, you get three wire transfers a quarter, which is nice if the need ever arrives. We also linked our credit cards and my wife's former 457, which we couldn't transfer pre-FIRE, so we can see our complete financial picture in one place.

jim555

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2022, 12:18:41 PM »
Vanguard is so lame.  Schwab is much better.

Scandium

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2022, 12:28:26 PM »
I use both, sort of. I have schwab for my all my bank needs, my roth IRA, and a few individual stocks (but mostly don't bother with that anymore). I also have some of my taxable there, about 20% I think. Mostly to have a backup if I have vanguard issues or something, not everything in one basket. As other have said schwab has a good interface and service, zero fee banking, good index funds. They do try to push some of their goofy higher-fee products, but not very aggressive at all (I think they've called about "advising" me once?)

But I like the philosophy/business model of vanguard better, and trust them more. So my rollover IRA (my single largest account) and remaining 80% of taxable investments are there. Honestly I don't have much issues with the UI, it's fine. But I also rarely use it (isn't that the point?). Few times a year I make a single large deposit, otherwise I have auto-draft set up every two weeks. I download tax documents. Have very little interaction with the website, because I have no need to.

edit: also forgot; Vanguard's patent that allow their mutual funds to not distribute capital gains is a great plus in my book! Once you have 5-digit+ balances those extra couple percentage of distributions start to hurt at tax time! I have taxable funds at both vanguard and schwab and just really noticed this difference doing my taxes now. I prefer them over ETFs just because auto-investing is easier. Of course you can avoid this by doing ETFs at schwab.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2022, 09:10:20 AM by Scandium »

travel2020

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2022, 02:24:37 PM »
I was an Vanguard but found their customer service lacking when I needed it, so ended up moving the taxable portion to fidelity (already had an account there) and retirement account to Schwab. Overall very happy with the move and their customer service has been great.

As others have mentioned, buying Vanguard mutual funds incurs a fee so I’ve left my existing vanguard funds as is but using the Schwab equivalent index funds (similar or lower fees) or the ETF equivalent when adding as those don’t  incur a fee.

Their checking account setup is nice as it refunds all ATM fees. I’ve not tried it yet but should come in handy when traveling internationally.

less4success

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2022, 02:43:19 PM »
In my limited experience, Fidelity has the best interface and customer service, Schwab has a less good interface but comparable customer service, and Vanguard is... adequate.

However, Fidelity is privately owned, Schwab is a public company, and Vanguard is owned by its customers. So I trust the companies in the exact opposite order, i.e. I trust Vanguard the most, then Schwab, then Fidelity.

Of course, Vanguard's recent reputation has been significantly marred in my mind by the recent "let's stick individual investors (using taxable accounts) with all the capital gains from corporate customers upgrading to a cheaper target-date fund" fiasco (see this thread).

Re-reading my post, I think all I've managed to do is muddy the waters around your decision. Fortunately, all 3 are fine choices.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2022, 02:47:21 PM »
However, Fidelity is privately owned, Schwab is a public company, and Vanguard is owned by its customers. So I trust the companies in the exact opposite order, i.e. I trust Vanguard the most, then Schwab, then Fidelity.
I've parroted that Vanguard is "owned by its customers" myself.. but what does that mean to Vanguard clients?  Do we ever vote to allocate more money to customer service?  No, because we don't have a vote.  How can Vanguard clients be "owners" if we can't even vote?
---

I've been a Vanguard client for a long time.  I recall mailing Vanguard checks for deposit, along with their deposit slip.  Yeah, a long time.  One day last year I wondered about opening a Scwhab account, and thought about comparing the two brokerages... and I heavily favored Schwab in that comparison.  If you buy ETFs, you can get the exact same ETFs at Schwab for the same $0/trade as Vanguard.

And actually, Vanguard adopted $0/trade later than Schwab and Fidelity.  I had to research that, since I couldn't believe it.  But their lack of leadership on low costs is pervasive.  Look at their call option prices: $1/option at Vanguard, $0.65/option at Schwab.  IBKR has the lowest margin rates - but I called Schwab (and they answer quickly!) and have requested lower rates to compete with that.  From numerous people I've heard Vanguard won't negetiate their margin rates, so I haven't sat on hold to ask them.

I have accounts at both Schwab and Vanguard, with most of my money still at Vanguard.  That said, I transferred 10% of my overall portfolio recently to Schwab.  I'm setting up a Roth IRA now, which I plan to fund with my Vanguard Roth IRA.  Most likely, I will have more assets at Schwab than Vanguard some time this year.

clifp

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2022, 03:32:36 PM »
I've been a customer for  40 years for both companies, and have also had accounts with Fidelity and Ameritrade.  The good news is that customer service for all three is quite good, they aren't your cable, phone company, or health insurance company or in my experience national bank.   These companies I often want to strangle, for being put on hold for hours, fighting with awful phone or web user interfaces.   If the rest of American businesses had as good customer service as the discount brokerage, I think we'd all be happier.

Vanguard simply hasn't improved very much over the last 20 years.  They do generally have the lowest prices for mutual funds, and marginally better performance.  I think the Schwab website is easier to find information,  the trading platform is much better. Schwab has a terrific checking account, where virtually all fees are waived.

For me, the biggest two advantage is phone support and product variety. Schwab customer service folks work hard at trying to find solutions to your problem, whereas the Vanguard folks work hard following Vanguard's rules. As my sophistication and net worth increased, Schwab just provides a wider variety of services, I needed.  If all you want to do is buy index mutual funds or ETF Vanguard is just fine.  However, Schwab has provided me with low-cost margin loans, mortgages, a good options trading platform, alternative investments, Donor Advised funds for charitable giving.  I've taken advantage of various special promotion offers over the years e.g $500 for $50,000 deposit, 100 Free trades that other financial services have offered, but eventually all my money goes back to Schwab.

PDXTabs

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #9 on: April 07, 2022, 03:56:00 PM »
I have personally used Fidelity and Vanguard. I am considering setting up a Schwab account going forward, but I believe that Vanguard is considered superior for what might be called "trade execution quality":
https://www.investopedia.com/charles-schwab-vs-vanguard-4587941

nalor511

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2022, 04:07:46 PM »
I have personally used Fidelity and Vanguard. I am considering setting up a Schwab account going forward, but I believe that Vanguard is considered superior for what might be called "trade execution quality":
https://www.investopedia.com/charles-schwab-vs-vanguard-4587941

Not as compared to Fidelity

shureShote

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2022, 04:14:03 PM »
I use Vanguard for Rollover IRAs and taxable, current 401k and HSA is with Fidelity.

Vanguard works for anything I’ve ever had to do. I recently did TLH for the first time, and it was pretty simple to set spec ID, turn off reinvestment, and so on. A few clicks, wait a day for the spec ID to be processed, and done. They are pretty good at accepting my monthly investment dollars, so I suspect they will be as good when I want some cash out.

I find Fidelity, on the other hand, to be just overly complex on the website. This is the actual site note the separate 401k company one. It has a lot shiny objects all over, and I don’t like the transaction interface. I only go in once a year to invest the HSA cash.

You read a lot of positive things about Schwab, so really you can’t go too wrong.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2022, 04:16:45 PM »
I've been a customer for  40 years for both companies, and have also had accounts with Fidelity and Ameritrade.
...  I've taken advantage of various special promotion offers over the years e.g $500 for $50,000 deposit, 100 Free trades that other financial services have offered, but eventually all my money goes back to Schwab.
You've been a customer longer than I have, but I think we have a commin experience of "Vanguard has a website?".

Years ago "free trades" meant free stock or ETF purchases, back when Vanguard had tiered pricing for that.  These days, it's a benefit for trading options.  Someone buying 100 contracts would normally pay $100 for the trade at Vanguard - but instead Vanguard uses up a single free trade.  The free options trades can be worth hundreds or thousands of dollars, and they refresh every year.  So when I say I'm moving to Schwab, what I mean is that if Vanguard paid me a thousand dollars a year, I'd probably keep moving towards Schwab.

But I didn't emphasize that, because I figure most people don't buy or sell call options with Vanguard.  But if anyone does - Vanguard's website easily takes last place.  I find some websites annoying, but I hate placing trades at Vanguard.  When I try to enter trades quickly using tabs and arrows to select menu items... when I reach the bottom of the page, Vanguard's website clears my order type.  It goes from "market" to "[select one]"... about 1 in every 3 attempts.  I have to slow down and use the mouse, where that happens less often.  I have never "fought" my broker's website to trade, except on Vanguard.  Hate it!

So maybe I should counter balance that with some positives.. but they all date back to when John "Jack" Bogle ran Vanguard.  He championed index funds, and lower costs, and forced other brokerages to react.  Heck, I championed those same things, and felt like Vanguard... was at the Vanguard of that charge.

Maybe my frustrations can be avoided by someone who just buys ETFs and mutual funds.  But I can keep listing examples of other companies taking low cost leadership away from Vanguard, and it's sad Vanguard has allowed that to happen.  I suspect Vanguard's lack of low cost leadership, combined with it's lack of advertising, will hurt the company over the coming decades.

Low costs help save our money as investors.  But if you look at Fidelity, they invented zero cost mutual funds: expense ratio of 0.0%.  I've even seen a 0.0% expense ratio ETF!  But it wasn't by Vanguard, who is now more focused on growing their "wealth advisor" to charge a percentage of your assets - and no, they don't have the lowest costs for that, either.


I have personally used Fidelity and Vanguard. I am considering setting up a Schwab account going forward, but I believe that Vanguard is considered superior for what might be called "trade execution quality":
https://www.investopedia.com/charles-schwab-vs-vanguard-4587941
In my view "price improvement" is a joke, because it's never measured in terms of the percentage improvement within the bid ask spread.  For example if you buy shares with a bid-ask spread of $10.00 to $10.10, you can wind up paying $10.0999 and that's "price improvement" of $0.0001 per share.  Why aren't you impressed?  Me, neither.  I've hit this many times, so it's not a fluke.

If "price improvement" were measured better, instead of calling $0.0001 a win, I would be more interested in it.

less4success

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2022, 04:44:03 PM »
However, Fidelity is privately owned, Schwab is a public company, and Vanguard is owned by its customers. So I trust the companies in the exact opposite order, i.e. I trust Vanguard the most, then Schwab, then Fidelity.
I've parroted that Vanguard is "owned by its customers" myself.. but what does that mean to Vanguard clients?  Do we ever vote to allocate more money to customer service?  No, because we don't have a vote.  How can Vanguard clients be "owners" if we can't even vote?

I will admit that I haven't thoroughly researched this, but doesn't Vanguard's structure mean that profit isn't being siphoned off (into the hands of non-customers or, as in the case of Fidelity, a very rich family)?

nalor511

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2022, 06:13:35 PM »
However, Fidelity is privately owned, Schwab is a public company, and Vanguard is owned by its customers. So I trust the companies in the exact opposite order, i.e. I trust Vanguard the most, then Schwab, then Fidelity.
I've parroted that Vanguard is "owned by its customers" myself.. but what does that mean to Vanguard clients?  Do we ever vote to allocate more money to customer service?  No, because we don't have a vote.  How can Vanguard clients be "owners" if we can't even vote?

I will admit that I haven't thoroughly researched this, but doesn't Vanguard's structure mean that profit isn't being siphoned off (into the hands of non-customers or, as in the case of Fidelity, a very rich family)?

No it does not mean that. Did you vote on how much they pay their executives vs lowering our expense ratio? I sure didn't

PDXTabs

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2022, 06:14:01 PM »
I have personally used Fidelity and Vanguard. I am considering setting up a Schwab account going forward, but I believe that Vanguard is considered superior for what might be called "trade execution quality":
https://www.investopedia.com/charles-schwab-vs-vanguard-4587941
In my view "price improvement" is a joke, because it's never measured in terms of the percentage improvement within the bid ask spread.  For example if you buy shares with a bid-ask spread of $10.00 to $10.10, you can wind up paying $10.0999 and that's "price improvement" of $0.0001 per share.  Why aren't you impressed?  Me, neither.  I've hit this many times, so it's not a fluke.

If "price improvement" were measured better, instead of calling $0.0001 a win, I would be more interested in it.

But that isn't what they are claiming:
https://investor.vanguard.com/about-us/brokerage-order-execution-quality

Whether that is significant is a different question. But it sure beats the opposite end of the spectrum:
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2020-321

boarder42

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2022, 06:19:33 PM »
Back when this whole movement really started mutual funds were where it was at specifically vanguard bc of the incredibly low fees. The retail investor market has changed considerably since then and I'd suggest investing in the ETFs that best suit your asset allocation vanguard or otherwise. You can trade them for free across almost all investing platforms today and they are portable so if a company has a superior interface or benefits you can move your money without the loss of a day or mores market performance. Imo for long term buy and hold investors it's more important to have in mind transfers and portability today than it is to try and get the most out of a bid ask spread. You can make up the cost of that by just moving your money to different places simply for sign up bonuses the rest of your life.

less4success

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2022, 07:51:49 PM »
However, Fidelity is privately owned, Schwab is a public company, and Vanguard is owned by its customers. So I trust the companies in the exact opposite order, i.e. I trust Vanguard the most, then Schwab, then Fidelity.
I've parroted that Vanguard is "owned by its customers" myself.. but what does that mean to Vanguard clients?  Do we ever vote to allocate more money to customer service?  No, because we don't have a vote.  How can Vanguard clients be "owners" if we can't even vote?

I will admit that I haven't thoroughly researched this, but doesn't Vanguard's structure mean that profit isn't being siphoned off (into the hands of non-customers or, as in the case of Fidelity, a very rich family)?

No it does not mean that. Did you vote on how much they pay their executives vs lowering our expense ratio? I sure didn't

I think that’s very misleading. Paying the employees comes out before profit is calculated, isn’t it?

Edit to expand a bit: Vanguard provides incentives to employees that save money for clients. Do other companies? I don't know, but I doubt they do it consistently like Vanguard. John Bogle was a man of integrity and even wrote a book railing against executive pay, so while I'm a little concerned by the potentially opaque nature of Vanguard's structure, I highly doubt that company is covertly enriching its management. Bogle could have probably been a billionaire if he ran Vanguard like Fidelity, but he chose to fight for the common man. I have nothing but respect for him and his company.

Schwab is a public company, so it is accountable to shareholders. This is good in theory, but look at runaway executive pay at public companies. Also, shareholders receive dividends, and that is money that could be going into investors' pockets instead. I've had positive experiences with Schwab, and I honestly believe they know they have to do right by clients, but I have less long-term faith in this model than Vanguard's.

Fidelity has been great for me, but it's a privately held company that seems effectively accountable to just one family of billionaires. They have great products, and I'd recommend them (especially for HSAs), but I much prefer Vanguard's structure.

Sorry, it appears this struck a nerve for me.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2022, 08:11:12 PM by less4success »

nalor511

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2022, 09:19:18 PM »
However, Fidelity is privately owned, Schwab is a public company, and Vanguard is owned by its customers. So I trust the companies in the exact opposite order, i.e. I trust Vanguard the most, then Schwab, then Fidelity.
I've parroted that Vanguard is "owned by its customers" myself.. but what does that mean to Vanguard clients?  Do we ever vote to allocate more money to customer service?  No, because we don't have a vote.  How can Vanguard clients be "owners" if we can't even vote?

I will admit that I haven't thoroughly researched this, but doesn't Vanguard's structure mean that profit isn't being siphoned off (into the hands of non-customers or, as in the case of Fidelity, a very rich family)?

No it does not mean that. Did you vote on how much they pay their executives vs lowering our expense ratio? I sure didn't

I think that’s very misleading. Paying the employees comes out before profit is calculated, isn’t it?

Edit to expand a bit: Vanguard provides incentives to employees that save money for clients. Do other companies? I don't know, but I doubt they do it consistently like Vanguard. John Bogle was a man of integrity and even wrote a book railing against executive pay, so while I'm a little concerned by the potentially opaque nature of Vanguard's structure, I highly doubt that company is covertly enriching its management. Bogle could have probably been a billionaire if he ran Vanguard like Fidelity, but he chose to fight for the common man. I have nothing but respect for him and his company.

Schwab is a public company, so it is accountable to shareholders. This is good in theory, but look at runaway executive pay at public companies. Also, shareholders receive dividends, and that is money that could be going into investors' pockets instead. I've had positive experiences with Schwab, and I honestly believe they know they have to do right by clients, but I have less long-term faith in this model than Vanguard's.

Fidelity has been great for me, but it's a privately held company that seems effectively accountable to just one family of billionaires. They have great products, and I'd recommend them (especially for HSAs), but I much prefer Vanguard's structure.

Sorry, it appears this struck a nerve for me.

I agree that theoretically Vanguard has the right idea, but the fact that Schwab and Fidelity constantly improve customer service, And Vanguard constantly gets worse, caused me to leave. If you are happy there I am glad for you. I do not believe there is any true value anymore in "investor ownership" of Vanguard. I believe it's misleading with no substance.

FLBiker

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2022, 07:11:35 AM »
This may be irrelevant to you, but Schwab is better than Vanguard in allowing US citizens to keep their accounts as expats.  Vanguard is quite bad about that, compared to folks like Schwab, TIAA, TD Ameritrade and Fidelity.

EvenSteven

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2022, 07:39:22 AM »
... Fortunately, all 3 are fine choices.

This is really the take home message. Vanguard, Schwab, and Fidelity are all good options.

ChickenStash

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2022, 08:45:28 AM »
Most of my friends I talk finances with are at Schwab and they don't seem to have any complaints. Rollovers and transfers seem to be a problem everywhere but they always managed to get it worked out with customer support.  I don't think any of the Schwab, Fidelity, Vanguard choices are bad, although they all act a little differently so there might some unique feature that makes one better than the other. Vanguard is fine for me at this point me as all my investments are on auto-pilot so I rarely do anything other than look at my balances.

If I had to do it over again or if I had a more active investment lifestyle I would pick someone else, though. Support wasn't terrible but they weren't as helpful as they could have been when I was having trouble doing some rollovers. I wound up getting more help from the place I was leaving than I got from them. It all worked out.

Their web UI bugs me. It just isn't organized in a way that makes information easy to find. I also find their auto-withdrawal/auto-deposit/auto-invest functionality to be more difficult to setup than it should. It works once it is all setup but it just took a lot more steps than it should and I'm annoyed with it whenever I need to make some changes.


MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2022, 09:02:17 AM »
This may be irrelevant to you, but Schwab is better than Vanguard in allowing US citizens to keep their accounts as expats.  Vanguard is quite bad about that, compared to folks like Schwab, TIAA, TD Ameritrade and Fidelity.
Are you sure about Fidelity, which is included in this article from last month?

"Americans abroad are being informed by U.S. banks and brokerage firms with increasing frequency that their accounts have been restricted or even closed due to their status as non-U.S. residents. These actions are being taken by a broad range of U.S. financial institutions and notably include Morgan Stanley, Fidelity, Merrill Lynch, Ameriprise, TIAA, Edward Jones, Wells Fargo, USAA, UBS and many other institutions."
https://creativeplanning.com/insights/why-us-brokerage-accounts-of-american-expats-are-being-closed/

And from Fidelity's website:
"Investors who reside outside the United States ...

Q.   I’m not a resident of the United States and I don’t have any existing accounts with Fidelity. Can I establish a relationship with Fidelity?

A.   No. Unfortunately, we do not open accounts for any new customers residing outside the United States."
https://www.fidelity.com/accounts/services/investors_outside_US_faq.shtml

Scandium

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2022, 09:14:00 AM »
This may be irrelevant to you, but Schwab is better than Vanguard in allowing US citizens to keep their accounts as expats.  Vanguard is quite bad about that, compared to folks like Schwab, TIAA, TD Ameritrade and Fidelity.

I was just reading about this. Do you have a link to more info from Schwab? My sense was that at this point pretty much every US institution was putting limits on transactions for expats? The main issues was you won't be allowed to buy mutual funds (i.e. reinvest dividends), but they won't necessarily close your account. At least not that saw? But I could be wrong. 

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2022, 09:33:27 AM »
This may be irrelevant to you, but Schwab is better than Vanguard in allowing US citizens to keep their accounts as expats.  Vanguard is quite bad about that, compared to folks like Schwab, TIAA, TD Ameritrade and Fidelity.
I was just reading about this. Do you have a link to more info from Schwab? My sense was that at this point pretty much every US institution was putting limits on transactions for expats? The main issues was you won't be allowed to buy mutual funds (i.e. reinvest dividends), but they won't necessarily close your account. At least not that saw? But I could be wrong.

Earlier I mentioned $0 fee ATM usage, which is included with other expat information here:
https://international.schwab.com/expatriate-essentials

Scandium

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2022, 11:57:42 AM »
This may be irrelevant to you, but Schwab is better than Vanguard in allowing US citizens to keep their accounts as expats.  Vanguard is quite bad about that, compared to folks like Schwab, TIAA, TD Ameritrade and Fidelity.
I was just reading about this. Do you have a link to more info from Schwab? My sense was that at this point pretty much every US institution was putting limits on transactions for expats? The main issues was you won't be allowed to buy mutual funds (i.e. reinvest dividends), but they won't necessarily close your account. At least not that saw? But I could be wrong.

Earlier I mentioned $0 fee ATM usage, which is included with other expat information here:
https://international.schwab.com/expatriate-essentials
K thanks, that's some info that's good to know. A bit light on specifics though. Nothing about how/if reinvesting works for example. Or the issue of no ETFs for expats in EU countries; https://creativeplanning.com/insights/why-us-brokerage-accounts-of-american-expats-are-being-closed/

markbike528CBX

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2022, 12:28:02 AM »
A friend who once worked at Scwab said the customer reps generally had their shit together. As contrasted  to Merril Lynch (also from ex- employee perspective) or other brokers.    Mostly here to PTF.

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2022, 09:06:18 PM »
I login so rarely that I never remember my password, the website seems to change every time so I can't find anything, and I randomly have weird shit happen that usually doesn't matter but its annoying.

^That statement applies to all three, Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab. I prefer Vanguard or Fidelity over Schwab, just because I have had more problems with annoying salespeople with Schwab than the other two. The bulk of my accounts are at Vanguard.

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Re: Is Schwab as good an investing option as Vanguard?
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2022, 07:18:40 AM »
This may be irrelevant to you, but Schwab is better than Vanguard in allowing US citizens to keep their accounts as expats.  Vanguard is quite bad about that, compared to folks like Schwab, TIAA, TD Ameritrade and Fidelity.
Are you sure about Fidelity, which is included in this article from last month?

"Americans abroad are being informed by U.S. banks and brokerage firms with increasing frequency that their accounts have been restricted or even closed due to their status as non-U.S. residents. These actions are being taken by a broad range of U.S. financial institutions and notably include Morgan Stanley, Fidelity, Merrill Lynch, Ameriprise, TIAA, Edward Jones, Wells Fargo, USAA, UBS and many other institutions."
https://creativeplanning.com/insights/why-us-brokerage-accounts-of-american-expats-are-being-closed/

And from Fidelity's website:
"Investors who reside outside the United States ...

Q.   I’m not a resident of the United States and I don’t have any existing accounts with Fidelity. Can I establish a relationship with Fidelity?

A.   No. Unfortunately, we do not open accounts for any new customers residing outside the United States."
https://www.fidelity.com/accounts/services/investors_outside_US_faq.shtml

Good point -- there is a lot of variability in this area (US investment firms providing services to US expats) and it is also constantly changing.  In my experience, Fidelity is good if you are already an account holder.  They will let you open another kind of account (e.g. a traditional IRA) as long as you already have some other kind of account (e.g. a Roth IRA).  They aren't good for taxable accounts, though, and they also won't let you become a new customer while abroad.  The only company I found that would allow me to open a new account as a US citizen with a Canadian mailing address is TD Ameritrade.  And for all of the "good" companies I've found, they are only good (in my experience) for tax-sheltered accounts.  We transferred our taxable account (in USD) to a Canadian brokerage.  The reality is, it really depend which country you're in, as everyone has different rules.  I didn't want to derail the thread too much :)  My point was just that Vanguard is particularly inflexible (they'll even freeze tax-sheltered accounts) and that Schwab was reasonably friendly (depending on where exactly you live).

For the record (as US citizens living in Canada), we currently use Fidelity, TIAA, TD Ameritrade, Nationwide and even Vanguard (their 403b provider allows foreign addresses, even though Vanguard proper does not).  I'd love to consolidate it, but since any one of them could change their rules tomorrow, I feel like having a diversity of providers is a good thing.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!