Author Topic: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game  (Read 39479 times)

Undecided

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2013, 03:41:14 PM »
Haven't been playing in the game, but my 401k statement for last month says I got 10.82% returns for the month just sitting there, doing absolutely no buying or selling or re-balancing, and that is with only 50% invested in broad equity indexes like the S&P 500 (the other 50% is in gov. securities and bonds). Just wanted to give the 10,000,000th vote for long term index investing.

The problem with above, is the following month it goes to -10.82%..for a total yearly sum of sometimes -5%, sometimes +5%. Vacillation of your money at it's finest, while the only guarantee of profits without any risk is made by fund fees and commission fees. (and eventual government taxes and/or fees)

When you give up control of choosing stocks and give up your right to vote with proxy votes, the powerful get to play with the fees and your money.

Funds are highly transparent and accountable in their voting.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/active-vs-passive-management/msg101155/#msg101155

DoubleDown

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2013, 04:11:14 PM »

The problem with above, is the following month it goes to -10.82%..for a total yearly sum of sometimes -5%, sometimes +5%. Vacillation of your money at it's finest, while the only guarantee of profits without any risk is made by fund fees and commission fees. (and eventual government taxes and/or fees)

When you give up control of choosing stocks and give up your right to vote with proxy votes, the powerful get to play with the fees and your money.

Nope. The annual administrative fees for my 401k are 0.027%. You read that right, 0.027%. That's 27 cents for every $1000. And the average administrative fee for 401k plans across all employers is 0.83% -- not exactly highway robbery in my book.

Also, any vacillation has of course been far less than would be experienced in market timing with short term trades, and I don't have to do any work (well, maybe 10 minutes once every year or so to re-balance). Overall, my annual returns would mirror the long term returns of the market indexes, so 9-11%; not an average of 0% as your post suggests (you said maybe -5% one year, and +5% the next). And of course there are no government taxes or fees as you've said. Since in this case I was talking about a 401k, it's the exact opposite: I get to deduct all those contributions, which makes a giant difference in my annual tax bill. Short term trades on the other hand are taxed pretty heavily. But we've been down this road with you before, no sense in rehashing it I guess.

I don't want to rain on the stock trading game. It is a game though. Anyone who thinks they could take favorable results from the short term game and apply it to real life in the long term is gambling. I could literally out-earn just about every short term trader in this game by playing blackjack, with more reliable results. And that's gambling. My original post was to say that my real (and boring) portfolio is matching the gains of the game players, and I'm not doing a damn thing.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2013, 10:22:55 AM »
Tesla will keep climbing because of it's innovation and niche in the auto industry markets. (The auto makers couldn't buy out this electric car idea and quench it. Elon Musk is far to rich to let that happen this time.) It's taking a bite out of them, and offering better incentives to luxury and middle class customers for electric cars. Plus the use of electricity in an automobile has a long long forgotten history, that Ford and many others tried hushing back in the 1900's with AC car motors and wireless power and permanent magnet motor ideas. Do your own research on those ones and remember history is made before the patent is issued, though it can be bought out and rewritten after the patent  and never implemented into the world's economics for various "destructive to their business model" reasons. (Howard Johnson U.S. Patent No. 4,151,431 is an interesting one that makes fuel engines obsolete. He hassled for 6 years trying to get that approved. Then Ford bought it and shelved it for good to Ford business reasons.)

I have a hard time believing conspiracy theories on anything like this, especially related to patents.

Your last example, for instance, is ridiculous. Even if Ford did do so to block that patent from being implemented, it'd buy him like 20 years.

If this was the case, we'd have seen other companies implement it right after the patent protection was up.  Given that they didn't (and they would have, had there been profit in it, given the way capitalism works), the whole story reeks of bullshit.

If it wasn't profitable for them to do 20 years later, do you really think it would have been that profitable for Johnson, or profitable for Ford to buy it and sit on it?

Parents literally disclose EVERYTHING.  And then someone else can just copy it 20 years later.  If and when that happens, maybe you can look to shenanigans happening.  Since it never happened, you can figure that it probably wasn't that great of an idea to begin with.

You of all people should know, that every 20 years that goes by, the education systems intentionally get worse because much wealthier people make it that way to protect their power,earnings, and profitable systems of corruption off the backs of financial slaves. The government doesn't mind it either  because it's easier to control the citizens and they keep collecting income from their hard but eventually thoughtless work. Then it becomes easy to spend other's people's money.

Oh these are proven profitable patents, even world economic changers, and many inventors have replicated them. They have resold them for profits, only to get bought out again and again under federally protected non-disclosure agreements as apart of the hush up deals.

Here is one link that might interest you and others about the re-written history of electric cars, fuel efficient vehicles, and free energy motor devices: http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=44

How much would the tinfoil hat concession go for at your house?

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When your colony says Christopher Columbus is a Hero for discovering America, then later you learn on your own that he was looking for a gold temple, but didn't find it, so he took back hundreds of Native American slaves to be sold in the markets...

It makes you wonder what else your colony is not telling you..

arebelspy

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2013, 12:55:30 PM »
Freeyourchains: it looks like you changed your name on the stock picking game.  The "hidethedrone" account is yours?
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RaveOregon

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2013, 01:55:59 PM »
He just isn't in the top 10 anymore so to find his name you need to click see all and then go to page 2.

arebelspy

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2013, 02:02:41 PM »
He just isn't in the top 10 anymore so to find his name you need to click see all and then go to page 2.

Ah.  I had clicked "see all" but assumed on refresh it would load them all on that same page.  I didn't realize there was a second page.  Thanks.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
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RaveOregon

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2013, 02:17:28 PM »
Yeah, I don't quite get why they have the site mapped that way. If I click see all I want to see more than it is already showing me, not the same thing.

JamesAt15

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2013, 06:52:08 PM »
It looks like by default it shows you the "Top Ranked Players," i.e. the top ten. If you hit Show All, it will give you the full list, albeit ten players per page. Yeah, it's not the most intuitive.

In other news, I bought a new batch of stocks. Method is not particularly clever - I just chose stocks that had the word "Home" in the company name. We'll see how this works out. It occurs to me (a bit late) that this isn't really random - those stocks are more likely to be affected by the state of the housing industry. But what the heck, I'm only holding them for a month. Maybe next time I'll choose based on more neutral words. ("Purple" comes to mind.)

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2013, 08:59:31 AM »

The problem with above, is the following month it goes to -10.82%..for a total yearly sum of sometimes -5%, sometimes +5%. Vacillation of your money at it's finest, while the only guarantee of profits without any risk is made by fund fees and commission fees. (and eventual government taxes and/or fees)

When you give up control of choosing stocks and give up your right to vote with proxy votes, the powerful get to play with the fees and your money.

Nope. The annual administrative fees for my 401k are 0.027%. You read that right, 0.027%. That's 27 cents for every $1000. And the average administrative fee for 401k plans across all employers is 0.83% -- not exactly highway robbery in my book.

Also, any vacillation has of course been far less than would be experienced in market timing with short term trades, and I don't have to do any work (well, maybe 10 minutes once every year or so to re-balance). Overall, my annual returns would mirror the long term returns of the market indexes, so 9-11%; not an average of 0% as your post suggests (you said maybe -5% one year, and +5% the next). And of course there are no government taxes or fees as you've said. Since in this case I was talking about a 401k, it's the exact opposite: I get to deduct all those contributions, which makes a giant difference in my annual tax bill. Short term trades on the other hand are taxed pretty heavily. But we've been down this road with you before, no sense in rehashing it I guess.

I don't want to rain on the stock trading game. It is a game though. Anyone who thinks they could take favorable results from the short term game and apply it to real life in the long term is gambling. I could literally out-earn just about every short term trader in this game by playing blackjack, with more reliable results. And that's gambling. My original post was to say that my real (and boring) portfolio is matching the gains of the game players, and I'm not doing a damn thing.

I don't know if you noticed, but a lot of us where up to the $1,000 range in under a month from quality stock picks at undervalued price ranges. There is a lot more to it then "gambling". A lot more professional then gambling to if you know what you are doing. But if you see it as gambling with people's jobs, then hey Cisco just laid off  4,000 professional jobs while it made record breaking earnings, you can talk to the CEOs about that one. The CEO especially loves the Stock Market. They must be gamblers of people's lives everyday then.

In a 401k Fund, you don't control what is bought or sold or the variable fees or what your employer choses as fund options. Most average from 1-2%. (employers may chose cheapest options with highest fees passed onto the employees)

Plus any 401k to IRA roll-overs hit you with nasty 3rd party fees now adays (and this is why these companies are advertising the Roll-over all over the place on media sites), and try to limit your IRA fund options, though don't let them. However mustachians are smarter, and most go to Vanguard upon a Roll-over...yet keep in mind the following...

But yeah. I am not completely against this approach for FI. (especially with any employer matching) I just don't believe in maxing it out and putting all your eggs into one heavily controlled, age restrictive, withdraw restrictive, loophole only, tax advantaged pipeline will allow you to retire forever, in less than 10 years. (Unless you are already age 59.5)

And to sum it up: every risk involved with any investment is a gamble; however, Skill is consistent and usually always improved upon, luck not so much, government policies not so much either.


« Last Edit: August 15, 2013, 09:26:44 AM by Freeyourchains2 »

Undecided

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2013, 11:15:19 AM »
In a 401k Fund, you don't control what is bought or sold or the variable fees or what your employer choses as fund options.

Wrong. Where do you get this stuff? I'm going to ask because I don't think I've seen you address this. Have you ever had a meaningful amount of money in a 401(k) or an IRA?

Plus any 401k to IRA roll-overs hit you with nasty 3rd party fees now adays (and this is why these companies are advertising the Roll-over all over the place on media sites), and try to limit your IRA fund options, though don't let them.


After .33 second, Google gives me a couple of names I recognize (there are others), who will take your rollover for no fee:

https://us.etrade.com/retirement/401k-rollover-ira

http://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/investing/accounts_products/accounts/ira/rollover_ira

I'll leave it to others to address your claims regarding the "skill" reflected by the stock trading game picks, if they think it's worth it.

arebelspy

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #60 on: August 15, 2013, 12:34:53 PM »
We don't.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

DoubleDown

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #61 on: August 15, 2013, 02:38:05 PM »


I don't know if you noticed, but a lot of us where up to the $1,000 range in under a month from quality stock picks at undervalued price ranges. There is a lot more to it then "gambling". A lot more professional then gambling to if you know what you are doing.
...
And to sum it up: every risk involved with any investment is a gamble; however, Skill is consistent and usually always improved upon, luck not so much, government policies not so much either.

Meh, you've got it backwards. $1,000 is a couple of hours of work for a professional blackjack player, with a far more reliable and mathematically proven record, than trying to outperform the market. If you think day trading is less gambling than a skilled blackjack player, I respectfully suggest looking into it. You'll find you'd have more reliable results with blackjack than trying to outperform markets.

matchewed

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #62 on: August 15, 2013, 03:37:30 PM »
Yeah and blackjack has the advantage of being a mathematical model which can be understood to adjust the odds slightly in your favor. Stock trading, IMO, has no mathematical model that I'm aware of which can manipulate things into your favor.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #63 on: August 16, 2013, 07:29:41 AM »


I don't know if you noticed, but a lot of us where up to the $1,000 range in under a month from quality stock picks at undervalued price ranges. There is a lot more to it then "gambling". A lot more professional then gambling to if you know what you are doing.
...
And to sum it up: every risk involved with any investment is a gamble; however, Skill is consistent and usually always improved upon, luck not so much, government policies not so much either.

Meh, you've got it backwards. $1,000 is a couple of hours of work for a professional blackjack player, with a far more reliable and mathematically proven record, than trying to outperform the market. If you think day trading is less gambling than a skilled blackjack player, I respectfully suggest looking into it. You'll find you'd have more reliable results with blackjack than trying to outperform markets.

You all are much much too focused on the "performance of the general stock market".
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year. (if you include CEO Share options and hedge fund Billionaires who trade month to month. Though most have ownership and power over their created sometimes very successful businesses.)

50% of the Worlds wealth is in the Stock Market. (Roughly $24 Trillion dollars).

I am just saying it's possible to do better then a salaried manager (who gets paid regardless of how the fund or markets are doing with your money.)

Kind of like politicians, who get paid regardless if the country is collapsing or not. (sometimes you do much better with a gun in your own hands.)

Flynlow

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #64 on: August 16, 2013, 07:59:29 AM »
Joined!  Should be fun :).  I'd rather "play" at this than fantasy football. 

NumberCruncher

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #65 on: August 16, 2013, 09:42:29 AM »
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year.

And most of the people that do this professionally (pick stocks) fail to do better than the index...

"Ah! but what about the *skilled* ones who do beat the index?"

most likely chance: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57594164/does-past-performance-matter/ (posted more for any random new-comer's benefit rather than your own, since it seems like all the evidence in the world won't change your mind)

DoubleDown

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #66 on: August 16, 2013, 11:54:44 AM »

You all are much much too focused on the "performance of the general stock market".
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year. (if you include CEO Share options and hedge fund Billionaires who trade month to month.


Sure, give me $1 billion in capital to play blackjack with, and I would likely turn that into $1.1 billion in one day (a $100 million, 10% return on investment in one day). In one year that would be a 3650% return, a profit of $36.5 Billion in one year if it was sustainable (it's not) and I never gambled more than the initial capital. But you and I likely don't have a billion dollars to throw around, so I'm not sure why you're introducing that kind of scale now.

You're missing the more important point: What you are doing is gambling, with perhaps some skill applied. I'm trying to help you understand that even games of chance like blackjack, which are inherently risky, actually have better performance with skill applied than trying to beat the market! Beating the general market is the benchmark, because as I've already explained, I can get 9-11% return (what some of the game winners might be getting) all while doing absolutely nothing except sitting on my couch and leaving my $ in index funds. Beating the market is not sustainable, just as winning billions of dollars in a casino is not sustainable (they'll kick you out long before).

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #67 on: August 16, 2013, 12:51:55 PM »
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year.

And most of the people that do this professionally (pick stocks) fail to do better than the index...

"Ah! but what about the *skilled* ones who do beat the index?"

most likely chance: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57594164/does-past-performance-matter/ (posted more for any random new-comer's benefit rather than your own, since it seems like all the evidence in the world won't change your mind)

Lol and once you make your first yearly 120% returns, or monthly 10%+++ returns you'll believe me.

If you invested with TSLA 6 months ago, you'd be at 282.61% returns.

If you are a king, why would you give your treasury and power to decide where to invest in your kingdom, to another person?


Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #68 on: August 16, 2013, 01:02:06 PM »

You all are much much too focused on the "performance of the general stock market".
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year. (if you include CEO Share options and hedge fund Billionaires who trade month to month.


Sure, give me $1 billion in capital to play blackjack with, and I would likely turn that into $1.1 billion in one day (a $100 million, 10% return on investment in one day). In one year that would be a 3650% return, a profit of $36.5 Billion in one year if it was sustainable (it's not) and I never gambled more than the initial capital. But you and I likely don't have a billion dollars to throw around, so I'm not sure why you're introducing that kind of scale now.

You're missing the more important point: What you are doing is gambling, with perhaps some skill applied. I'm trying to help you understand that even games of chance like blackjack, which are inherently risky, actually have better performance with skill applied than trying to beat the market! Beating the general market is the benchmark, because as I've already explained, I can get 9-11% return (what some of the game winners might be getting) all while doing absolutely nothing except sitting on my couch and leaving my $ in index funds. Beating the market is not sustainable, just as winning billions of dollars in a casino is not sustainable (they'll kick you out long before).

I understand what you are saying, but trading is far from gambling. It's more business oriented and Market oriented with dynamic foundations of supply and demand, then odds of winning a game.

Think of Warren Buffet for a few moments. He bought many undervalued shares of companies when he first started his business. Then investors invested in his business so that he would keep performing and out beating the markets with his simple, "buy low high quality undervalued companies low, then sell them high" business model. They kept giving him more and more capital to work with, and he was able to keep buying low and selling high more and more shares of companies, untill the stock market itself "threw him out of the buying shares game," based on the stock market's own founding principals of supply and demand. Buying 1.2 million shares of a company will raise the stock price dramatically, and it takes longer and longer amounts of time to set up those "trades" to make them profitable. So instead of trading, he began buying, selling, leveraging half or entire companies themselves. Buy the company undervalued, sell it at high value.

Before you know it, billions in profits per year.

So i guess his business model was more of a business model, then a day trading strategy. Since he got more and more capital to leverage from venture capitalists and investors. But a Marketplace is a lot different then a Casino.

Undecided

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #69 on: August 16, 2013, 01:12:14 PM »
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year.

And most of the people that do this professionally (pick stocks) fail to do better than the index...

"Ah! but what about the *skilled* ones who do beat the index?"

most likely chance: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57594164/does-past-performance-matter/ (posted more for any random new-comer's benefit rather than your own, since it seems like all the evidence in the world won't change your mind)

Lol and once you make your first yearly 120% returns, or monthly 10%+++ returns you'll believe me.

If you invested with TSLA 6 months ago, you'd be at 282.61% returns.

If you are a king, why would you give your treasury and power to decide where to invest in your kingdom, to another person?

If "you" invested only with TSLA 6 months ago, yes, but the odds are that "you" also invested in other stocks and that most of those were losers, that "you" sold TSLA at the wrong time and/or did other things that together made your overall return over any extended period lower than the return of the total U.S.-listed equity market over the same time.

Even a king can't command the weather.

arebelspy

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #70 on: August 17, 2013, 07:39:44 AM »
Lol and once you make your first yearly 120% returns, or monthly 10%+++ returns you'll believe me.

If you invested with TSLA 6 months ago, you'd be at 282.61% returns.

And then maybe once you have your -120% returns to balance it out, you'll believe us.

Sure, you'll have successes.  No one's saying you won't.  You can sit down and win a few hands of blackjack in a row.

But is picking a stock like TSLA repeatable and sustainable?  No.  You'll have losses that balance it out, and - overall - you'll end up underperforming the market.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
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Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #71 on: August 19, 2013, 07:52:10 AM »
You are not looking at the "Performance of the skilled individual traders" who retired over the centuries whom have made thousands to hundreds of billions per year.

And most of the people that do this professionally (pick stocks) fail to do better than the index...

"Ah! but what about the *skilled* ones who do beat the index?"

most likely chance: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505123_162-57594164/does-past-performance-matter/ (posted more for any random new-comer's benefit rather than your own, since it seems like all the evidence in the world won't change your mind)

Lol and once you make your first yearly 120% returns, or monthly 10%+++ returns you'll believe me.

If you invested with TSLA 6 months ago, you'd be at 282.61% returns.

If you are a king, why would you give your treasury and power to decide where to invest in your kingdom, to another person?

If "you" invested only with TSLA 6 months ago, yes, but the odds are that "you" also invested in other stocks and that most of those were losers, that "you" sold TSLA at the wrong time and/or did other things that together made your overall return over any extended period lower than the return of the total U.S.-listed equity market over the same time.

Even a king can't command the weather.

Right, but a king can use his skills of reading the weather to win the war, while he is investing in weapons and shields on both sides to make his treasury stronger.



Le Dérisoire

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #72 on: August 19, 2013, 09:50:41 AM »
I joined! I'll probably bet everything on a single stock, and probably even short it if the game allows it. I'll either be first or last. It's fun!

Freeyourchains2, are you familiar with the Modern portfolio theory and concepts such as normal distribution, variance of a portfolio and the efficient market hypothesis?

I'm not implying that I know anything about that (I don't, I'm ignorant) or that you don't, but it seems to me that it would be quite useful to refer to these concepts in the discussion above.

For instance, could the Warren Buffet example be explained not so much by extraordinary skills but by:

1) Chance (Buffet happened to be in the extreme-right X axis of the normal distribution curve);
2) A very high E(r) and σ 2 Portfolio in the early years;
3) Access to the 'float' of insurances companies that provided some kind of low-risk leverage?

I'm just throwing words like that because I don't know a lot about finance (seriously), but the very little I know makes me ask: Will a skilled person make more money than an unskilled person, while taking the same amount of risk?

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Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #74 on: August 20, 2013, 06:55:54 AM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_(Internet)

I have been accused of being a troll on here because someone didn't like my opinion. I think it's part of the judgementalism inherent in IA. Some of us are just extremely rigidly thinking and some of us feel the need to lash out at those who do not share our opinions. Thus opening up the troll trap.

Perhaps the finger pointing is directly related to how much power they feel over "trolls" in real life? They can't accuse someone of being a troll in real life, so they do it extensively and without censorship on here?

Either way I am not here to battle..just here to have fun and talk constructively, and even debate a bit.

grantmeaname

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #75 on: August 20, 2013, 07:08:38 AM »
There are plenty here who don't believe in efficient markets and try to trade. Some of them are highly esteemed posters. If you're being labeled a troll, maybe it's because of how you post rather than what you're saying.

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #76 on: August 20, 2013, 04:33:35 PM »
Perhaps the finger pointing is directly related to how much power they feel over "trolls" in real life? They can't accuse someone of being a troll in real life, so they do it extensively and without censorship on here?

just here to have fun

I've never met a troll in real life. Trolls only troll on the Internet so their real life persona remains untarnished.

Trolls can be identified by their use cherry picked facts/unsubstantiated claims and disregard of contrary evidence that they use to uphold their side of an argument/debate.

arebelspy

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2013, 04:35:01 PM »
I've never met a troll in real life. Trolls only troll on the Internet so their real life persona remains untarnished.

Maybe we'll get a chance to meet one day.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

Crash87

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2013, 06:35:52 PM »
I've never met a troll in real life. Trolls only troll on the Internet so their real life persona remains untarnished.

Maybe we'll get a chance to meet one day.

I'm sure we'd be great friends

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #79 on: August 21, 2013, 12:13:03 PM »
Maybe I'll get to meet Matchewed in real life and we'll turn out to become best friends during FI.

matchewed

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #80 on: August 21, 2013, 01:21:56 PM »
I swear I'll buy you a beer one day (and if you don't drink a ginger ale).

smedleyb

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #81 on: August 24, 2013, 10:21:41 PM »
Too lazy to open account, but I am personally moving  IRA money in emerging market funds and have (like a moth to a flame) slowly begun to accumulate Dec Spyder puts in anticipations of a volatile Sept/Oct time frame.  Not always right but that's what's up in my investment universe.

arebelspy

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #82 on: August 24, 2013, 10:30:42 PM »
anticipations of a volatile Sept/Oct time frame.

I agree, but wouldn't bet on my hunch.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with three kids.
If you want to know more about us, or how we did that, or see lots of pictures, this Business Insider profile tells our story pretty well.
We (rarely) blog at AdventuringAlong.com. Check out our Now page to see what we're up to currently.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #83 on: August 26, 2013, 08:55:05 AM »
Ok I joined.  A bit disappointed that you can't trade options, as I would want to leverage $10,000 by buying Oct Microsoft $34 puts and selling Sept $33 puts.  I could make an easy 50% with that trade.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #84 on: August 26, 2013, 10:09:43 AM »
Wow this is a dream account!  There are no "hard to borrow" fees for shorting penny stocks and there is no penalty for "freeriding"!

I could make a million with an account like this in real life.

smedleyb

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #85 on: August 26, 2013, 12:27:12 PM »
Ok I joined.  A bit disappointed that you can't trade options, as I would want to leverage $10,000 by buying Oct Microsoft $34 puts and selling Sept $33 puts.  I could make an easy 50% with that trade.

I agree with the mechanics of this trade.  A little too much unwarranted excitement over Mr. Balmer's immanent departure.  I would look to trade the second thrust higher, IMO. 

Cecil

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #86 on: August 26, 2013, 12:28:18 PM »
Hey look at that, I'm winning! (I'm "David nope")

All because TSLA happened to gain 42% since we started.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #87 on: August 26, 2013, 05:55:40 PM »
I somehow locked up my account by trying to go long on AFFY and not realizing it is trading on the pinks now.

The trade just says 15 min delayed with no option to cancel.

I guess you can't trade OTC pinks.  Too bad, because one pop in a biotech and I win this game.

JamesAt15

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #88 on: August 26, 2013, 07:03:30 PM »
Hey look at that, I'm winning! (I'm "David nope")

All because TSLA happened to gain 42% since we started.

Good on you, sir!

But wait, what's this "happened to gain" bit? I thought you were one of those "skilled personal traders" that was previously mentioned. So... you chose TSLA based on careful analysis and recognizing that it was trading at an undervalued price and so would eventually climb, right?

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #89 on: August 26, 2013, 07:33:26 PM »
I would have shorted the crap out of Tesla today when it hit $172 if my account had not locked up on the AFFY trade.

It is a decent high risk stock at about $40 a share.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #90 on: August 27, 2013, 09:32:16 AM »
I would have shorted the crap out of Tesla today when it hit $172 if my account had not locked up on the AFFY trade.

It is a decent high risk stock at about $40 a share.

TSLA has potential of climbing to $300 in the next 4 months, then $1000 over the next year.

It all depends on the continual suppression by big government and big corporations of "Free Energy" and Electric Vehicle technology.  But Elon Musk is treading dangerous waters because he is trying to free the middle class from oil dependency of which the Governments of USA, Europe, Asia, and Middle East  depend heavily on for taxes. Global Big Oil Corporations depend heavily on it as well as they stretch across all governments. Elon Musk is hard to buy off and suppress because he has billions already and many world changing visions that were bought out in the past, he is already implementing in a visionary/revolutionary and industrial way. SpaceX is still Private for a reason.
Solar City is putting solar panels on every real estate property across the nation. Etc.

He is a genius with an agenda that the government and other big titans can't keep up with.

A small taste of suppression history below:

Dr. Nicholas Tesla put wirelessly powered AC motors  into cars as early as 1907. Free energy inventions are as simply built as putting 8 magnets in a stationary outer circle, with  8 magnets in a revolving inner circle turning a generator continuously and endlessly.. were invented as early as 1935, then those patents and inventions were continuously bought by Henry Ford and other Mega Rich Titans and shelved so consumer taxed workers would still spend, work, and be taxed.

A lot more interesting reading here about it: http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=976

There are more caves to open up your eyes and unshackle from then just financial work slavery. Mustachianism helps free your financial bonds, but what about your bonds to Kings and Governments and their agendas? (Hint: they need you to keep working, else they die.)

grantmeaname

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #91 on: August 27, 2013, 09:37:31 AM »
Perpetual motion has existed in a commercially viable form since 1935 and nobody noticed? Interestly!

matchewed

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #92 on: August 27, 2013, 09:59:08 AM »
At the very least it got me to look up how many countries still had an absolute monarchy (6!). I'm not going to bother to look up the free energy as not even patents would protect an invention that could actually do that.

Cecil

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #93 on: August 27, 2013, 10:27:00 AM »
Quote
Free energy inventions are as simply built as putting 8 magnets in a stationary outer circle, with  8 magnets in a revolving inner circle turning a generator continuously and endlessly

Does this message board have a way to ignore people?

grantmeaname

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2013, 10:44:26 AM »

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2013, 11:15:32 AM »
At the very least it got me to look up how many countries still had an absolute monarchy (6!). I'm not going to bother to look up the free energy as not even patents would protect an invention that could actually do that.

Weekend project Matchewed: DIY self-sustaining autonomous power generator from only permanent magnets and carpentry/welding skills under a budget of $50 investment dollars.

Get it running so it generates a continuous flow of amps (5V, 0.02A or so), then start charging some low voltage items. This will help amaze you and get you thinking more along the lines of "Free Energy" and why it's being suppressed (human greed economics). Of course us engineering/science oriented Mustachians' rebellious and curiously open minded natures will then get you thinking about how this can power higher voltage items freely ;-)

Then you'll realize a few extremely important things about leaving this kind of cave below:

1) No more electricity bills, ever! (A $265 Billion dollar revenue industry, http://www.eia.gov/electricity/sales_revenue_price/pdf/table10.pdf just in the 50 states alone. So maybe $2 Trillion globally.)
2) No more electricity bill taxes, ever!
3) No more electricity Bill customer surcharge fees that go up due to inflation and "CEO salary increases by defaulted investor proxy vote" (Yes i stuck that in here properly, hehe).
4) You found a way around inflation by building it yourself and locally.
5) Keep tinkering and you can make it more efficient and get more power.
6) Tesla added a third coil to his Tesla Transformer Coil to get thousands of Amps from a few amps back in 1902 (Patented and witnessed here: https://www.google.com/patents/US1119732?printsec=drawing&dq=tesla+1902&ei=t9UcUqGlI-O9sQSYiIDIDQ#v=onepage&q=tesla%201902&f=false.
Got to love Google Patents and the power of the internet)
7) If 7 billion people each built one for themselves, they could purify ocean water, cook food, grow food autonomously, and build whatever they desired quickly and numerously without having to buy it from big government or big corporations.

But i am derailing this thread now, lol. I'll start another thread in Misc about this. It's so simple, yet no one is aware of it. Just like Mustachianism.


grantmeaname

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2013, 11:29:26 AM »
So you power your house entirely through perpetual motion?

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2013, 11:38:33 AM »
Quote
Free energy inventions are as simply built as putting 8 magnets in a stationary outer circle, with  8 magnets in a revolving inner circle turning a generator continuously and endlessly

Does this message board have a way to ignore people?
Ignoring others will only keep you in the cave, lol. I am putting it in a different thread.
What if you didn't stumble upon MMM? You would still be in the cave until someone else told you about the sky outside.
« Last Edit: August 27, 2013, 11:49:54 AM by Freeyourchains2 »

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2013, 12:11:22 PM »
So you power your house entirely through perpetual motion?

Yes, but patent pending for a few reasons which i will try to explain here briefly. There is a lot of high competition with intelligence forces working round the clock to suppress a world wide change.

For example with this article (in 2010, 3 long years ago..): http://techcrunch.com/2010/02/22/bloom-energy-boxes/

Interesting why the U.S. Patent Office is so backlogged...by about 6-7 years now, while 57% of the Tax payers' taxes go to "Classified" Military Budgets so the government can play with classified patents and remake them with their unlimited income and resources while others can not) so can't talk much about it and there is extremely high competition. Plus the possibility i will be bought out and it be shelved.... oh wait I am mustachian and I can say "NO! F YOU!" and then be shot or jailed forever, while my inventions have already been dispersed to family, friends, youtube, etc and the world is changed forever.

So since i hate power struggles, and A king/government thinks they own people still...i won't need to wait on "patent pending" will I. And if fear doesn't hold me back, (http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08/23/fear-is-just-a-chemical/) then i should start releasing my inventions shouldn't I?

It's quite a dilemma after seeing so many inventors suppressed, jailed, or killed throughout history for things that would change the world. History of the invention does not start with the Patent, which so many un-educated or unaware people think it does.

Freeyourchains2

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Re: Investor Alley Stock Trading Game
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2013, 12:23:34 PM »
Ok new thread has been started to not de-rail this one in the Off Topic section of the Forums.

Here: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/off-topic/free-energy-suppressed-before-with-bribes-of-money-but-we-are-mmm!!/