Author Topic: Investing in europe  (Read 9776 times)

network_monkey

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Investing in europe
« on: May 27, 2016, 03:53:31 AM »
Hi Guys,

I have a good IT job and I'm saving for down payment on a house. I have 1k euros sitting in a government bond. It doesn't earn anything. It occurred to me that its just been sitting there for years, maybe I could start trying to do something with it. I tried to sign up for vanguard index fund but it seems the only available option for me in Ireland/Europe was that I have 100K to open the account :(. Just wondering if there are any other euros on here that can advise on the best index funds to consider to start investing in.

Thanks !

Heckler

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2016, 07:43:47 AM »
Europe is a big place...   You may want to do a search for your specific country.  Here's Switzerland for example. 

http://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/investor-alley/switzerland-how-should-i-buy-index-funds-here/

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2016, 07:59:12 AM »
Look for Vanguard ETFs (funds are harder to find) through a broker. There may be a tax-advantaged account available to you.

And you can check out:

http://jlcollinsnh.com/2014/01/27/stocks-part-xxi-investing-with-vanguard-for-europeans/

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2016, 01:58:44 PM »
Vanguard Total World ETF (symbol "VT") should be available to anyone to buy through their brokerage.  You buy one ETF, pay 0.14% expense ratio, and your money is invested everywhere.  For a $1k Euro/USD starting amount that probably makes the most sense.

If you're taking your emergency fund and trying to invest it, that's a different story.  If the business environment is so bad you're out of work... your stocks are down just when you need your emergency money.  So don't risk it for short-term funds, but an ETF could be good for money you don't need for years.

k9

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2016, 04:04:02 PM »
Where are you in Europe ?

mohawkbrah

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2016, 01:00:06 AM »
if you're looking for somewhere to trade funds and shares and the likes. id suggest looking at your country's banks and see if they offer investment accounts. normally they do and wouldn't expect 100k starting capital.

Sadly i only know UK brokerages and none for europe/international

whodidntante

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2016, 07:59:38 AM »
An advantage of ETFs is that you can avoid mutual fund minimums.  If you can afford one share, you can invest.  You still need a brokerage account, but it is easy to find one with no minimums, at least here in the US.

dmn

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2016, 06:22:14 AM »
Get a cheap brokerage account at a bank of your country. Specific recommendations depend on which country you live in.

Then buy cheap ETFs. In Europe, iShares is often the cheapest option. In some countries, Vanguard ETFs are also available. A well-diversified portfolio can be built using just one or two ETFs, e.g. iShares Core MSCI World for developed countries and (optionally) iShares Core MSCI Emerging Markets for emerging markets.

Make sure you understand the brokerage fees; with some brokers, you will need to buy in sufficiently large chunks to keep costs down.

For investments amounts below 50k, I would just dump everything into the MSCI World. For larger amounts, maybe add 10-20% MSCI Emerging Markets. You can also use other ETFs, just make sure that they have a low TER (annual fees). The iShares funds I linked have TERs of 0.2% and 0.25% respectively, and you should not pay higher fees.

k9

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2016, 03:23:22 PM »
SPDR also proposes an ACWI  (all countries world index) ETF that includes both world and emerging (about 85% world, 15% emerging). That is a good option too.

In Europe, beware of synthetic ETFs. They include derivatives and don't always hold the securities they are supposed to hold. If you buy with iShares, SPDR or Vanguard, you are safe.

zombiehunter

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2016, 12:53:32 PM »
Hi everyone, thanks for creating this thread and the helpful responses!

I have a similar question which is how to invest some Euros held in accounts in France.  It's quite difficult to search for this because most of the Google results from the US return results relating to e.g. International ETFs, and Google results from .fr return results in French (of course). 

I get the sense that most French do not invest in ETFs and other securities the way that Americans do, as their social security programs are more robust.  A few have simply stated "it's not that easy to invest in France" and that returns roughly similar to US markets in the 7% range are not common.  I think more likely they are just not familiar with it, and surely they can get similar returns by investing in similar securities like Vanguard.  I am not familiar, however, with what the equivalent of capital gains tax would be.  If its similar to income tax rates (e.g. sometimes over 50% for high earners), it would be really sucky.  Seems like most people sit on some cash and save up for sporadic purchases like cars and or mortgage down payments by building up cash in savings accounts. 

Anyways, per the above reference: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2014/01/27/stocks-part-xxi-investing-with-vanguard-for-europeans/

--Unless you have 500k euro to invest, you can't do so with Vanguard directly but must go through a broker. 

This likely means additional fees, on top of the VT 0.14%.  In addition, per the article, an Irish dividend withholding tax.  There may be additional US Government dividend withhold tax.  It's difficult to quantify what these fees are.

--After a brief search, looks like BNP Paribas has a brokerage service that is primarily geared toward Expats, but charges 25 euro per trade and a 1% entry fee. 
--A better option, De Giro, looks like it would be a better option at 0.25 euro per trade.  Mostly used Google Translate to read the site, but am not familiar with its reputation. 

Does anyone have recommendations as to a low-cost brokerage thru which we could purchase Vanguard ETFs with euros from French accounts?  And generally speaking, would the fees associated with transferring the Euros to US dollar accounts and then investing them be a better option, given the fees and taxes associated with investing in Vanguard from France? 
« Last Edit: June 01, 2016, 12:56:13 PM by zombiehunter »

Mr FrugalNL

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #10 on: June 02, 2016, 01:30:43 AM »
This likely means additional fees, on top of the VT 0.14%.  In addition, per the article, an Irish dividend withholding tax.  There may be additional US Government dividend withhold tax.  It's difficult to quantify what these fees are.

I'm a Dutch citizen living in the Netherlands and hold shares in Vanguard's Ireland-based ETF, Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF, through a Dutch broker, Binck. No Irish dividend withholding tax has been applied to this investment. No US withholding tax applies either, because the ETF is under Irish jurisdiction.

I *think* you as a French citizen would not be liable for Irish dividend withholding tax, but I can't be sure. As I understand it, the reason I as a Dutch citizen am not liable for Irish taxes is the following line from Article 8(6) of the Irish-Dutch Double Taxation Agreement:

'Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 2, dividends paid by a company which is a resident of Ireland to a resident of the Netherlands shall be exempt from Irish sur-tax.'
http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/double/netherlands.html

If you look in Article 9(2) of the Double Taxation Agreement between Ireland and France, you'll see basically the same text:

'Dividends arising from sources situated in Ireland which are paid to an individual being a resident of France shall be exempt from Irish sur-tax.'
http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/double/france.html

--After a brief search, looks like BNP Paribas has a brokerage service that is primarily geared toward Expats, but charges 25 euro per trade and a 1% entry fee. 
--A better option, De Giro, looks like it would be a better option at 0.25 euro per trade.  Mostly used Google Translate to read the site, but am not familiar with its reputation.


You should try DeGiro's French website: https://www.degiro.fr/ Hopefully they had a proper translator take care of it rather than running it through Google Translate. Personally, I can't tell the difference in French. I also have an account with DeGiro and have no complaints so far. I wish they'd make it more obvious if and when they deduct charges from your account balance, but I guess I shouldn't complain given how low their fees are.

I don't fully trust DeGiro, however, because apparently they put their own hedge fund's interests ahead of those of their brokerage clients when matching orders in-house: http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2015/09/degiro-clients-as-counterparty-for-hedgefund.html Since this affair they have made external matching the default option. If you have no objections to in-house matching then you can enable it for your account.

Also, if you open an account with DeGiro you will want to be sure that it is a custody account. The fee structure for this type of account is slightly worse than for the regular account, but DeGiro won't lend your securities to third parties that may or may not default.

JanFromBelgium

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #11 on: June 02, 2016, 04:37:11 AM »
Here in Belgium, the best (service) and cheapest option at the moment also seems to be Binck Bank, which operates an online-only brokerage service. Their costs are reasonable compared to other bank brokers. Up to an investment of 2500 euro they charge 9, 75 euro, up to 25000 euro, you pay 14, 75 euro. Above that you pay 24, 75 euro per chunk of 50000 euro invested. I am invested in Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI), which also pays dividends. There's dividend tax: we pay the American 15 % tarif, and the Belgian tax (fixed amount: the more dividend you have, the cheaper this tax is). The backdraw is that for the VTI, one has to invest in US $, with the extra costs and risks for currency exchange. The already mentioned iShares Core MSCI World is a good alternative in euro (also available through Binck Bank). It's lagging a bit behind the VTI at the moment though... but shhhhh let's not try to time the market :)

zombiehunter

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #12 on: June 02, 2016, 07:58:04 AM »
This likely means additional fees, on top of the VT 0.14%.  In addition, per the article, an Irish dividend withholding tax.  There may be additional US Government dividend withhold tax.  It's difficult to quantify what these fees are.

I'm a Dutch citizen living in the Netherlands and hold shares in Vanguard's Ireland-based ETF, Vanguard FTSE All-World UCITS ETF, through a Dutch broker, Binck. No Irish dividend withholding tax has been applied to this investment. No US withholding tax applies either, because the ETF is under Irish jurisdiction.

I *think* you as a French citizen would not be liable for Irish dividend withholding tax, but I can't be sure. As I understand it, the reason I as a Dutch citizen am not liable for Irish taxes is the following line from Article 8(6) of the Irish-Dutch Double Taxation Agreement:

'Notwithstanding the provisions of paragraph 2, dividends paid by a company which is a resident of Ireland to a resident of the Netherlands shall be exempt from Irish sur-tax.'
http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/double/netherlands.html

If you look in Article 9(2) of the Double Taxation Agreement between Ireland and France, you'll see basically the same text:

'Dividends arising from sources situated in Ireland which are paid to an individual being a resident of France shall be exempt from Irish sur-tax.'
http://www.revenue.ie/en/practitioner/law/double/france.html

--After a brief search, looks like BNP Paribas has a brokerage service that is primarily geared toward Expats, but charges 25 euro per trade and a 1% entry fee. 
--A better option, De Giro, looks like it would be a better option at 0.25 euro per trade.  Mostly used Google Translate to read the site, but am not familiar with its reputation.


You should try DeGiro's French website: https://www.degiro.fr/ Hopefully they had a proper translator take care of it rather than running it through Google Translate. Personally, I can't tell the difference in French. I also have an account with DeGiro and have no complaints so far. I wish they'd make it more obvious if and when they deduct charges from your account balance, but I guess I shouldn't complain given how low their fees are.

I don't fully trust DeGiro, however, because apparently they put their own hedge fund's interests ahead of those of their brokerage clients when matching orders in-house: http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/2015/09/degiro-clients-as-counterparty-for-hedgefund.html Since this affair they have made external matching the default option. If you have no objections to in-house matching then you can enable it for your account.

Also, if you open an account with DeGiro you will want to be sure that it is a custody account. The fee structure for this type of account is slightly worse than for the regular account, but DeGiro won't lend your securities to third parties that may or may not default.

Thank you, this is great!  I am actually a US Citizen but my wife is a French citizen, which may complicate tax issues.  In any case, your cites are very helpful.

Re: De Giro, I read a few articles pointing out how they lend your securities to third parties who could default.  I am not sure on the specifics for this, but it's great there's an option for a custody account to avoid the issue.  Regarding in-house matching -- I'm not sure I understand the issue.  In any case, I'm not interested in trading options, but some long term Vanguard ETF buy-and-hold. 

Looking over the "Custody Account" fee schedule -- https://www.degiro.co.uk/data/pdf/uk/UK_Feeschedule_CUSTODY.pdf -- the prices don't look too bad.  There's also a list of commission free ETFs, which includes iShares and Vanguard.  Sounds like its 1 free trade per month per ETF, with additional free buy orders if greater than $1k.

--https://www.degiro.co.uk/fees/commission-free-etfs.html
--https://www.degiro.co.uk/data/pdf/uk/commission-free-etfs-list.pdf

I believe this would be a great option, as there should be no third-party lending against your securities as well as no commissions on the ETFs. 

k9

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #13 on: June 02, 2016, 08:35:45 AM »
Does anyone have recommendations as to a low-cost brokerage thru which we could purchase Vanguard ETFs with euros from French accounts?

Sure, you have boursorama, fortuneo, binck and probably others. They charge as low as 0.5% per trading order for small amounts, or even lower if you put big orders, which is quite low fo a buy-and-holder (that represents about 1% of your wealth over your whole life, which is far less than what ETF fees will represent).

As for capital gains, I don't knwo how it works for expats, but for others :

- if you invest in a PEA, you only have to pay 15.5% of your gains once you close the account. Yep, dividends are not taxed until you withdraw from the account. But, once you start withdrawing from that account, you cannot put anything back on it. And that only works for european stocks (best choice IMHO: VEUR),

- if you invest on an ordinary trading account (CTO), you will have to pay capital gains, i.e 15.5% + your tax rate; yes it can go as high as 50%, or even more, if you are really wealthy. But, if you're a buy-&-holder, note anything held more than 8 years will be much less taxed. Same thing for dividends: only 60% of them is taxed,

- if you invest in a life insurance, you are in a intermediate situation. Taxes are lower than on a CTO but a little higher than on a PEA. You can withdraw some money from them and put some more later on, so it is better than a PEA in this regard. Fees are quite high though, because you have to pay the insurance company. I have seen fees of about 1% per year (including the ETF's fees). Less taxes but more fees, you will have about the same net worth from a life insurance as from a CTO, but rebalancing is much cheaper on a life insurance, so that has to be taken into account. Rebalancing is tax inefficient on a CTO, and impossible on a PEA.

Mr FrugalNL

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #14 on: June 02, 2016, 03:09:30 PM »
Thank you, this is great!  I am actually a US Citizen but my wife is a French citizen, which may complicate tax issues.  In any case, your cites are very helpful.

You're welcome! It's actually where you live that matters in the context of those quotes from the double taxation treaties, so as a French resident but not a French citizen you should be treated the exact same way as your wife by the Irish tax authorities.

Your being a US citizen does complicate matters, however, because of FATCA: the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act. It's a US act that requires non-US financial institutions to ascertain whether their clients are 'US persons' (and therefore liable to pay taxes to the IRS) and to report them. It is my understanding that you, being a US citizen, are a US person and therefore liable to pay US taxes even if you live in France. I've heard of people with two nationalities, one of them US, who had never lived in the US, who had to pay US taxes for selling their home, which was in a completely different country. Crazy.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca

Re: De Giro, I read a few articles pointing out how they lend your securities to third parties who could default.  I am not sure on the specifics for this, but it's great there's an option for a custody account to avoid the issue.  Regarding in-house matching -- I'm not sure I understand the issue.  In any case, I'm not interested in trading options, but some long term Vanguard ETF buy-and-hold. 

Looking over the "Custody Account" fee schedule -- https://www.degiro.co.uk/data/pdf/uk/UK_Feeschedule_CUSTODY.pdf -- the prices don't look too bad.  There's also a list of commission free ETFs, which includes iShares and Vanguard.  Sounds like its 1 free trade per month per ETF, with additional free buy orders if greater than $1k.

--https://www.degiro.co.uk/fees/commission-free-etfs.html
--https://www.degiro.co.uk/data/pdf/uk/commission-free-etfs-list.pdf

I believe this would be a great option, as there should be no third-party lending against your securities as well as no commissions on the ETFs. 

DeGiro's custody account is certainly a decent option for buying and holding ETF shares.

Playing with Fire UK

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2016, 12:38:07 AM »
I'd look into holding the bulk of the investments in the non-US spouse's name to avoid the US taxation issue.

nobodyspecial

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #16 on: June 04, 2016, 03:52:07 PM »
Another issue is that a lot of european banks and lower cost online brokerages won't have you as a client if you are a "US person".
It places a lot of regulatory requirements on them to report your account to the US and has some pretty hefty penalties if they fail to meet them - so a lot of smaller outfits decided it is just cheaper to not have US ex-pats as customers.


zombiehunter

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #17 on: June 12, 2016, 04:22:35 PM »
Another issue is that a lot of european banks and lower cost online brokerages won't have you as a client if you are a "US person".
It places a lot of regulatory requirements on them to report your account to the US and has some pretty hefty penalties if they fail to meet them - so a lot of smaller outfits decided it is just cheaper to not have US ex-pats as customers.

Thank you, this is great!  I am actually a US Citizen but my wife is a French citizen, which may complicate tax issues.  In any case, your cites are very helpful.

You're welcome! It's actually where you live that matters in the context of those quotes from the double taxation treaties, so as a French resident but not a French citizen you should be treated the exact same way as your wife by the Irish tax authorities.

Your being a US citizen does complicate matters, however, because of FATCA: the Foreign Accounts Tax Compliance Act. It's a US act that requires non-US financial institutions to ascertain whether their clients are 'US persons' (and therefore liable to pay taxes to the IRS) and to report them. It is my understanding that you, being a US citizen, are a US person and therefore liable to pay US taxes even if you live in France. I've heard of people with two nationalities, one of them US, who had never lived in the US, who had to pay US taxes for selling their home, which was in a completely different country. Crazy.

https://www.irs.gov/businesses/corporations/foreign-account-tax-compliance-act-fatca

Re: De Giro, I read a few articles pointing out how they lend your securities to third parties who could default.  I am not sure on the specifics for this, but it's great there's an option for a custody account to avoid the issue.  Regarding in-house matching -- I'm not sure I understand the issue.  In any case, I'm not interested in trading options, but some long term Vanguard ETF buy-and-hold. 

Looking over the "Custody Account" fee schedule -- https://www.degiro.co.uk/data/pdf/uk/UK_Feeschedule_CUSTODY.pdf -- the prices don't look too bad.  There's also a list of commission free ETFs, which includes iShares and Vanguard.  Sounds like its 1 free trade per month per ETF, with additional free buy orders if greater than $1k.

--https://www.degiro.co.uk/fees/commission-free-etfs.html
--https://www.degiro.co.uk/data/pdf/uk/commission-free-etfs-list.pdf

I believe this would be a great option, as there should be no third-party lending against your securities as well as no commissions on the ETFs. 

DeGiro's custody account is certainly a decent option for buying and holding ETF shares.


Could not create an account with DeGiro as a US Person. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 10:12:40 AM by zombiehunter »

Mr FrugalNL

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2016, 11:05:35 AM »
Ahh. I should've seen that one coming. Back to the drawing board then. Maybe you could try Interactive Brokers? They accept US persons, from the looks of things.

https://www.interactivebrokers.com/en/index.php?f=tax&p=residency

An acquaintance of mine has an account there that he's happy with, although I seem to recall their fees are punishing on small account balances and they may or may not lend your securities.

Able was I ERE

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #19 on: June 13, 2016, 02:02:23 PM »
Interactive Brokers accepts US persons AFAIK.  At least they have a US presence and accept US residents in the US. 

They have a minimum monthly fee of ~$10. If you have less than that in commissions during the month, they charge you an "inactivity fee" to make the total $10 for the month.

zombiehunter

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #20 on: June 13, 2016, 03:27:08 PM »
Thanks for the replies, I had seen that Interactive Brokers as an option after googling, but the fees sound pretty terrible.  The other option I've found is FortuNEO; best I can tell they don't accept US Persons for life insurance but may accept them for brokerage accounts.

I'm starting to wonder if this is worth the hassle -- currently we have about 10k euro in France (unfortunately, just over the IRS reporting threshold).  I wanted to invest it in Vanguard ETFs for the 5 years or so we have until moving over there.  I didn't really want to convert it to USD due to the terrible exchange rate from Euro to USD that's recently been closer to 1.1 than 1.4.  BUT... I think purchasing Vanguard ETFs with Euros would accomplish the same thing as transferring the Euros back to US bank accounts and investing it directly with Vanguard (minus some conversion/wire fee). 

Perhaps this would only be worth the hassle if we could invest it in a tax-advantage account (PEA I believe) -- but I don't think my wife is eligible as I don't think her "tax residence" is in France (we filed jointly in the US and she is permanent resident). 

Would the best solution be to bring the funds state-side and add to our savings, then move them to France in 5 years? 

Able was I ERE

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #21 on: June 17, 2016, 02:32:00 AM »
zombie hunter, you're right that buying an etf in Europe and transferring to the US and purchasing here are essentially the same, if you buy an equivalent fund, since the underlying worth of the equities would be the same, just possibly measured in different currencies.  Personally, I'd probably transfer to the US for simplicity (avoid FATCA reporting, tax complexities). If you wanted to hedge currencies, you can then invest in a European index fund. 

For currency transfers, I've been happy with Transferwise for converting EUR to USD and vice versa. (PM me if you want a referral code, I think we'd each get one free transfer.)

extremis

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2016, 05:56:47 PM »
I am searching for a reliable and cheap broker in Europe to buy ETF shares. I have found that DeGiro discount broker offers decent fees, but are they trustworthy for long-term investing?

A general question (does not only apply to DeGiro, but to any other broker too): what happens if a broker defaults? I think (uninvested) money are protected up to 20K, but what about investments like ETFs, etc?

daverobev

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2016, 06:20:04 PM »
I am searching for a reliable and cheap broker in Europe to buy ETF shares. I have found that DeGiro discount broker offers decent fees, but are they trustworthy for long-term investing?

A general question (does not only apply to DeGiro, but to any other broker too): what happens if a broker defaults? I think (uninvested) money are protected up to 20K, but what about investments like ETFs, etc?

The shares will be held in a trust account, not the organisation's general one. Your property is yours. Unlike money in the case of a bank's bankruptcy, after any government protection.

WerKater

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2016, 12:36:22 AM »
I am searching for a reliable and cheap broker in Europe to buy ETF shares. I have found that DeGiro discount broker offers decent fees, but are they trustworthy for long-term investing?
Which country? And what is your definition of cheap?

extremis

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2016, 04:39:27 AM »
The shares will be held in a trust account, not the organisation's general one. Your property is yours. Unlike money in the case of a bank's bankruptcy, after any government protection.

So, this basically rules out the possibility of loss in case of a broker's default. But what about fraud? Is there any 3rd party guarantee that our shares are indeed registered in our name? Maybe a publicly accessible register that lists all shareholders and could be searched by anyone interested in order to confirm that the broker has correctly registered the investor's shares. Or is it the case that shares are collectively registered at the broker's name and the broker is then responsible to keep a log of shareholders' names?

Which country? And what is your definition of cheap?

Any European based broker would be fine. As i am interested in long-term investing (Buy & Hold), i am looking for a broker with no custody fees. Other fees are also important to me, but not as important as custody fees.

daverobev

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Re: Investing in europe
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2016, 07:19:06 AM »
The shares will be held in a trust account, not the organisation's general one. Your property is yours. Unlike money in the case of a bank's bankruptcy, after any government protection.

So, this basically rules out the possibility of loss in case of a broker's default. But what about fraud? Is there any 3rd party guarantee that our shares are indeed registered in our name? Maybe a publicly accessible register that lists all shareholders and could be searched by anyone interested in order to confirm that the broker has correctly registered the investor's shares. Or is it the case that shares are collectively registered at the broker's name and the broker is then responsible to keep a log of shareholders' names?

Which country? And what is your definition of cheap?

Any European based broker would be fine. As i am interested in long-term investing (Buy & Hold), i am looking for a broker with no custody fees. Other fees are also important to me, but not as important as custody fees.

You have to specify country. Brokers don't work all over; they are country specific.