Author Topic: Fun with VIX options  (Read 88200 times)

elysianfields

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #350 on: September 08, 2023, 11:55:29 AM »
Update:  When the VIX dropped below $15, I looked to roll my 20250117 puts down from $15 to $10.  It took a few days for my bids to hit.  On the $15 puts I made just below 7% in two months.  I'm down a bit on the $10 puts though VIX is back below $15 today.

ChpBstrd

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #351 on: September 08, 2023, 12:23:31 PM »
I'm considering purchasing some more index fund put options, given today's VIX of 13.9. I'm still up over 16% on the 9/2024 SPY puts I bought on July 25, when VIX was at today's levels.

I'm also not going to write a covered call on the shares over this weekend. It's just not worth the pitiful premiums.

elysianfields

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #352 on: December 26, 2023, 04:15:41 PM »
Another update: Now that UVXY dropped below 10 (my puts went in the money), I entered a limit order to sell my puts.  While a better price cleared a few days after my order executed, the put prices are now below where I sold, though still marginally above my purchase price.  Excel says my CAGR for the 97 days I held the puts is 25.34%.

Since holding UVXY puts through the New Years requires them to be considered sold on December 31 for tax purposes, I didn't open a new trade.

@Financial.Velociraptor how are your bear put spreads doing?

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #353 on: December 26, 2023, 05:58:24 PM »

@Financial.Velociraptor how are your bear put spreads doing?

My current trade with expiry 29DEC2023 looks safely in the money.  I will roll and target third Friday expiry going forward.

elysianfields

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #354 on: May 03, 2024, 04:36:08 PM »
Checking in again to say I bought some 260116 Put 30s a few days back.  Not many trades on the LEAPS right now, I bought after the 1:5 UVXY reverse split.

I buy via Interactive Brokers but don't buy a price feed, I usually check pricing via my Schwab account in another tab.  Nasdaq provides free data but is a bit clunky - does anyone have any better suggestions for a free option pricing source?

ChpBstrd

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #355 on: May 06, 2024, 07:24:55 AM »
Checking in again to say I bought some 260116 Put 30s a few days back.  Not many trades on the LEAPS right now, I bought after the 1:5 UVXY reverse split.

I buy via Interactive Brokers but don't buy a price feed, I usually check pricing via my Schwab account in another tab.  Nasdaq provides free data but is a bit clunky - does anyone have any better suggestions for a free option pricing source?
Yea probably keep doing what you're doing with the Schwab quote. Still, it has to be unnerving to be option-exposed to leveraged volatility in an account where you can't see the real-time quote. Not a bad idea... just unnerving.

elysianfields

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #356 on: May 06, 2024, 08:45:45 AM »
Checking in again to say I bought some 260116 Put 30s a few days back.  Not many trades on the LEAPS right now, I bought after the 1:5 UVXY reverse split.

I buy via Interactive Brokers but don't buy a price feed, I usually check pricing via my Schwab account in another tab.  Nasdaq provides free data but is a bit clunky - does anyone have any better suggestions for a free option pricing source?
Yea probably keep doing what you're doing with the Schwab quote. Still, it has to be unnerving to be option-exposed to leveraged volatility in an account where you can't see the real-time quote. Not a bad idea... just unnerving.

Yeah, it's less than ideal.  Maybe I should just pay for a reliable price feed if I'm going to keep buying UVXY puts.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #357 on: May 09, 2024, 11:35:11 AM »
I hate VIX options.  I still have a nice profit on VIX calls I bought/sold in June 2022, but I definitely ate into those profits by chasing that one-time success.  Having bought VIX calls, I still view them as highly speculative...

...having said that, I traded various options.  If I used price feed subscriptions, it was when they were included in other IBKR costs.  I think I paid a tiny fee for individual quotes, but it mostly wasn't useful.

My solution to not having price feeds can be time consuming.  I would start my bid(ask) lower(higher) than the bid-ask spread.  I repeatedly changed the price of the order, bringing it more into the bid-ask range.  Trading outside the bid-ask range (because it was stale) was extremely rare, from what I recall.

Often when my order filled, I didn't see a bid-ask price change.  It felt like an order appeared out of nowhere to match mine, so I always assumed that was from a high-frequency trading (HFT) firm.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2024, 11:39:02 AM by MustacheAndaHalf »

ChpBstrd

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Re: Fun with VIX options
« Reply #358 on: May 09, 2024, 04:46:25 PM »
VIX is getting interesting, reaching the low end of its 52 week range. The market is taking a "not IF, but WHEN" attitude toward rate cuts, while corporate profits appear to be rising.

Conditions are similar to January 4, when I sold a hundred options of 12 / 12.50 bull call spreads for $0.43 with the VIX at 14.13. These expired for a $0.50 credit on 2/14, a quick 16% return in under 1.5 months.

The deal is even more juicy today with the VIX at 12.69. The same spread expiring June 18 sells for $0.41 at the mid. That would represent an almost 22% return. The difference between now and then which accounts for the better pricing is the lower VIX.

But what exactly does the VIX today have to do with the VIX in 1.5 months? Not a lot I would argue, based on the chart. There is a pattern where a high VIX can only fall at a certain rate and down to a certain level around 10, but other than that it looks very noisy.

I downloaded 5 years of VIX data from Yahoo Finance and found that the VIX has only closed below 12.50 on 2.37% of days. The 12.41 breakeven point on this trade occurred only 1.67% of the time. However, the 5Y historical probability of a loss on this trade (VIX<12.41) 40 trading days after the VIX fell below today's 12.69 was 3.9%. A total loss occurred 0% of the time.

Certainly the partial losses on spreads can be substantial, but with VIX the probability decreases of the underlying landing at successively lower closes. I.e. VIX at 12.41 is a lot more probable than VIX at 12.25 which is itself a lot more probable than VIX at 12. I'd have to create some sort of probability-weighted function to arrive at a fair value for this bet, but intuitively a 96% chance of a 16% return looks good, despite the 4% chance of significant loss.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!