Author Topic: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...  (Read 15517 times)

Stimpy

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2017, 08:33:58 AM »
(learn about public - private key cryptography befor trying to argue this)[/size] and that it can't be aimlessly devalued through inflation (let's not argue this point, those are facts on mathematical levels).

Not here to debate Crypto with you.  I personally find concept and code fascinating, and yes the math is solid.  BUT, as far as a currency or just a valued asset, that is yet to be proven, thus unproven asset.  Only time will tell if it becomes one.

And yes, I would have argued the same with stocks, back then they first appeared, in the 1300's?!

Anyway, as I said, jump in to the market, even if it falls the day after, you know it will eventually come back.
As for real estate, I'd say go for it, using the advice from bigger pockets, find your niche and do it!

Mr. Boh

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #51 on: December 15, 2017, 09:04:14 AM »
Seems like a troll thread but I'll make a few points anyway.

I completely disagree with their assumption on Crypto-Currencies, Tokens and/or Blockchain based assets, I am a full time analyst and would love to have a live Skype discussion for anyone that wants to debate such a topic but I am not in here for that. If you or anyone wishes to do that please PM me. If you feel they are a bubble that is completely fine! That's not what I am in here for. I have got my F-YOU money from it and now am looking to discuss exit strategies.

Yes, I don't know if I feel the trillions of dollars in gains over the short amount of time is healthy. I am in here to discuss that and have open ears!

You are a "full time analyst" so who am I to argue, but I don't think that there have been over two trillion dollars in gains from crypto currencies. I think that the entire crypto market is worth less than half a trillion.

I'll also echo other posters that you're thinking about this the wrong way. You are worried about a fifty percent correction in the stock market but not worried about a similar correction in crypto currency. In my opinion is you have that backward.

There has been a lot of terrific advice offered to you here. My advice is to re-read this thread and try to take it to heart instead of fighting against it.

Good luck!


lifeanon269

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #52 on: December 15, 2017, 09:42:56 AM »
Worst threat title ever. The 4% rule hasn't come up in the discussion at all and I don't understand where in the thought process the 4% rule was for OP.

This seems more like a discussion on asset allocation than anything which is why you're going to get a massive number of different responses. Everyone has their own risk tolerances and those risk tolerances are on full display in each of our own portofolios.

Nobody here has asked you what your FIRE timeframe is or what your risk tolerance is like or any of those questions that must be asked when looking to help someone determine what their retirement portfolio should be. Therefore you should pretty much throw everyone's opinions out since they're just that, opinions. That doesn't mean that there aren't some good insights provided, its just that they haven't provided that insight with the goal of helping you in mind.

So, with that said, I think you should take some time to outline what your retirement goals and plans are. What age do you see yourself retiring at? Are you going to quit earning income altogether when you do retire? What's your risk tolerance like and what type of concerns do you have in various markets? If you're concerned about a market crash, then having an allocation set up that keeps you up at night isn't a good idea. So it is important to get the right mindset around what actual risks there are in each of your allocations. That means performing your own risk assessment as to how well you could handle any given market outcome. For example, if stocks crashed 50% the year you decided to retire, how would you react, how would you fair, and what would you do? What would your other allocations look like in such a scenario?

That being said, it seems like your portfolio is very "doomsday" oriented. So I think you need to answer some of the questions above and perform a legit risk assessment to determine whether that "doomsday" allocation is truly necessary or not.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 09:44:37 AM by lifeanon269 »

talltexan

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #53 on: December 15, 2017, 09:58:08 AM »
Perhaps the OP has amassed 25X his annual expenses worth of Crypto?

If that's the case, I'd recommend two things:

1. diversify into at least two crypto currencies, and
2. withdraw one year's living expenses in cash right away

Next, you have a lot of good suggestions for asset allocations here: when you've done the soul-searching that allows you to produce an investing policy statement, you can set your paycheck to go straight into an investment account in that allocation.

Bicycle_B

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #54 on: December 15, 2017, 11:15:35 AM »
+1 that addressing the 4% rule more directly still needs to be done.

@Tonayahu, the 4% rule includes quite a safety margin for down markets.  It anticipates that with 50% in stock and 50% in bonds, annual rebalancing of the stock-bond proportion will enable withdrawals to be made at the rate of 4% of the original portfolio without running out of money for the next 30 years.  For a fuller picture of how this works for a variety of portfolios, review the safe withdrawal rate charts at https://portfoliocharts.com/
https://portfoliocharts.com/portfolio/withdrawal-rates/

The key to the 4% withdrawal rate is whether 4% of the invested total is equal to or greater than your expenses.  The 4% is based on historic performance of ordinary investments.  If the non-crypto portion of your portfolio is sufficient to meet this standard, presumably you are safe for decades even if the stock markets crash comes the day after your new asset allocation is implemented, and the crypto naysayers turn out to be right.  The only way you would fail in that case would be to reallocate non-crypto into crypto. 

For what it's worth, I think that basing a portfolio on present analysis about the relative valuation of asset classes is inherently risky because valuation estimates are inherently difficult to make accurately.  You stated a goal of taking a year or two off and feeling safe.  I suggest that greater safety can be obtained by implementing strategies that succeed in the contingencies where our estimates are wrong as well as right.  In other words, diversify across asset classes so that the diversification, not the valuation, is the primary guarantor of safety.  In that light, your shift to a portfolio with several diverse asset classes is probably a good direction.  I hope you do implement it, or something similar.

Personally, due to reviewing portfolio charts and pondering the behavior of different asset classes, I like several aspects of your proposed portfolio.  Cash and precious metals are value stores that do well in plunges, though their long term value tends to be flat (metals) or declining (cash).  Stocks tend to rise because they are shares of productive enterprises, I strongly support keeping anywhere from 30% to 50%.  Real estate is somewhat uncorrelated with stocks, which is good, and somewhat productive, which is good, and gains from inflation where cash loses, so is a good asset to balance out the stock/cash axis.  Bear in mind that what type of real estate and which specific real estate investments you make have a big effect, so educate yourself on that.  If you directly own property, it can involve work, which contradicts your goal of taking time off, but yes a good property manager can keep the workload low in return for reduced income; at least you'd be storing some value while you take time off, though.  Re precious metals, I'd consider exchanging half of that for commodities; see portfolio charts for sample results, and sample vehicles of investment.  Re cash, I would suggest that some of that be in bonds. 

Btw, I like the idea of having very high collars before the rebalancing between crypto and conventional. 

So - do you have enough $ that your conventional (non-crypto) portfolio portion would by itself cover 25x of your current expenses?  Do you expect to have different expenses when taking time off?

Good luck in any case.

Tonyahu

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #55 on: December 15, 2017, 11:27:01 AM »
Thank you all for contributing so far, this has is truly helping me get back on track!

Cheers to all whom have chimed in with helpful knowledge except for (essentially) yelling "bubble", "tulips" or "ponzi" due to a lack of education and/or misinformation.

+1 that addressing the 4% rule more directly still needs to be done.

@Tonayahu, the 4% rule includes quite a safety margin for down markets.  It anticipates that with 50% in stock and 50% in bonds, annual rebalancing of the stock-bond proportion will enable withdrawals to be made at the rate of 4% of the original portfolio without running out of money for the next 30 years.  For a fuller picture of how this works for a variety of portfolios, review the safe withdrawal rate charts at https://portfoliocharts.com/
https://portfoliocharts.com/portfolio/withdrawal-rates/

The key to the 4% withdrawal rate is whether 4% of the invested total is equal to or greater than your expenses.  The 4% is based on historic performance of ordinary investments.  If the non-crypto portion of your portfolio is sufficient to meet this standard, presumably you are safe for decades even if the stock markets crash comes the day after your new asset allocation is implemented, and the crypto naysayers turn out to be right.  The only way you would fail in that case would be to reallocate non-crypto into crypto. 

For what it's worth, I think that basing a portfolio on present analysis about the relative valuation of asset classes is inherently risky because valuation estimates are inherently difficult to make accurately.  You stated a goal of taking a year or two off and feeling safe.  I suggest that greater safety can be obtained by implementing strategies that succeed in the contingencies where our estimates are wrong as well as right.  In other words, diversify across asset classes so that the diversification, not the valuation, is the primary guarantor of safety.  In that light, your shift to a portfolio with several diverse asset classes is probably a good direction.  I hope you do implement it, or something similar.

Personally, due to reviewing portfolio charts and pondering the behavior of different asset classes, I like several aspects of your proposed portfolio.  Cash and precious metals are value stores that do well in plunges, though their long term value tends to be flat (metals) or declining (cash).  Stocks tend to rise because they are shares of productive enterprises, I strongly support keeping anywhere from 30% to 50%.  Real estate is somewhat uncorrelated with stocks, which is good, and somewhat productive, which is good, and gains from inflation where cash loses, so is a good asset to balance out the stock/cash axis.  Bear in mind that what type of real estate and which specific real estate investments you make have a big effect, so educate yourself on that.  If you directly own property, it can involve work, which contradicts your goal of taking time off, but yes a good property manager can keep the workload low in return for reduced income; at least you'd be storing some value while you take time off, though.  Re precious metals, I'd consider exchanging half of that for commodities; see portfolio charts for sample results, and sample vehicles of investment.  Re cash, I would suggest that some of that be in bonds. 

Btw, I like the idea of having very high collars before the rebalancing between crypto and conventional. 

So - do you have enough $ that your conventional (non-crypto) portfolio portion would by itself cover 25x of your current expenses?  Do you expect to have different expenses when taking time off?

Good luck in any case.

If I were to pull out 100% of cryptos right now, I would not be able to cover 25x my expenses. I would need to have another 2-3 weeks in a strong bull market like we have just seen the past few weeks.

In regards to the 4% rule, which was my main point of making this (but I guess I wasn't very good at clarifying what I was looking for), I wouldn't mind throwing a large portion into Equities but I didn't want to:

1) Miss out on liquidity. While I do want to travel for a year or so, I am 90% certain I will find places that I feel I could bring businesses and/or value to and would need liquid capital for start up operations.
2) Buy the top. I genuinely feel this is an actual concern. If I were to do this and have the market correct next year, I would be forced to not withdraw from my portfolio unless I wanted to jeopardize long term portfolio growth.

Has anyone ran any monte carlo simulations on portfolios surviving 70+ years and while buying near a top? I think I will try to go mess around a little bit and see what I can find.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 11:48:15 AM by Tonyahu »

Bicycle_B

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #56 on: December 15, 2017, 12:13:48 PM »
Have you looked at cFIRESIM?

http://www.cfiresim.com/

It and another calculator, FireCalc, allow calcuations somewhat similar to what you're looking for.

Here are some previous discussions these and their pitfalls:

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/ask-a-mustachian/firecalc-and-cfiresim-both-lie/

Fwiw, in your shoes I'd begin the reallocation ASAP, perhaps with a weekly pull of 25% from crypto to other assets until you get close to your chosen new portfolio (maybe end of January).  The fact you'll be keeping some crypto might give you a chance to achieve full FI regardless, but shifting at least some to non-crypto right away guarantees that you'll have enough fiat to enjoy the next few years without touching the remaining crypto. 

Overall, it sounds like you're not quite at FI, but you have plenty to take time off if you choose, assuming you convert enough to fiat-denominated investments and value stores to cover the upcoming few years of expenses.  Let us know how it goes!  Also, I enjoy your posts in the main crypto thread; thanks for sharing your knowledge.

PizzaSteve

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #57 on: December 15, 2017, 12:28:05 PM »
Hey all,

My title is a bit misleading, I simply wanted to get you guys in here to help me get back on track.

I first learned about traditional personal finance about 2 years ago. I listened to hours of Radical Personal Finance, read many blogs, learned about Early Retirement Extreme, Mr. Money Mustache and Bogle Head investing. I was on my way to saving 60%+ and hunting for that early retirement goal!

I then found Crypto-Currencies and have dived head first into what I believe is a new Digital Asset Class. I have made money this past year that would have taken me nearly half a lifetime, and for that I am truly blessed (Praise Jesus).
I am not in here to discuss those, if you wish please go into my other thread.

My question is, I have been so far off track in terms of "traditional personal finance" that looking at the stock market charts is literally scary. From my amateur view (viewing charts, P&E ratio, macro economic view, debt to GDP), I feel that we are due for a correction.

I am thinking about moving my portfolio into 30% Equities, 20% Real Estate, 20% Cash, 20% Crypto and 10% Precious Metals.

Does anyone still hold 100% Equities?
Does anyone hold 100% Real Estate (for cash flow)?

I want to get a discussion going here and not a flat out "answer and exit" approach.

For the record I am a 26 year old college graduate with no debt. I grew up in a lower-middle-class family and have never traveled so I want to get my portfolio in order during 2018 so I can take off for a year or two in 2019 and feel safe.

I want to thank you all for reading this and hope I can find some more wise friends/mentors to steer me in the right direction.

Cheers!
Lots of good advice already, so I wont repeat that. 

My short answer is that the future will be very dynamic and I would advise some diversification of your investments (both financial and education/career moves using both aggressive and defensive strategies).  The world is commoditizing and globalizing very quickly, so many markets and equity investment will trend toward behaving like a portfolio of lottery tickets.

I am not a big fan of asset classes that rely solely on consumer or industrial demand for appreciation (e.g. commodities).  I worked with two top commodities market trader/manipulators in the area of strategy and ultimately the data suggests that these markets will all be either too efficient to exploit or too dominated by large players to rely on.  Ultimately that area is not good for capitalists (providers of funds) but can be good for business (if you run a value added business service).

Regarding crypos, I invested there using the old supply the gold rush with tools and food strategy.  I am holding some individual stocks that supply this market with key tech as fun money (and have insider friends as warning signals at those companies).

Good luck.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:29:51 PM by PizzaSteve »

Telecaster

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #58 on: December 15, 2017, 12:40:20 PM »
2) Buy the top. I genuinely feel this is an actual concern. If I were to do this and have the market correct next year, I would be forced to not withdraw from my portfolio unless I wanted to jeopardize long term portfolio growth.

Has anyone ran any monte carlo simulations on portfolios surviving 70+ years and while buying near a top? I think I will try to go mess around a little bit and see what I can find.

I don't know of any Monte Carlo simulations.  I do know there have been historical studies about the consequences of actually buying at the top.  And the consequences are it lowers your returns by a little bit.

The thing that really kills your returns:  The markets make most of their gains on a small number of days each year.  Being in cash on those days will significantly reduce your final portfolio value. 

A couple other things to keep in mind:  Most corrections are pretty short in duration, the average is only 10 months.  I realize you think you've got the top sussed out, but have you figured out a way to time the bottom?   You might have to jump back in pretty quickly.  And remember the part about being in cash.

Another thing is there might not be a correction.  The market could easily trend sideways or maybe have positive but below average returns for a long period of time. 



ChpBstrd

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2017, 01:44:24 PM »
You are worried about a stock market decline, but have you considered buying insurance against such a decline? Right now, you can purchase put options on SPY that will protect your investment from any decline (beyond the cost of the insurance) for just over 2 years at a cost of about 4% per year. If that seems pricey, consider a collar (buy a put, sell a call) for around 3.5% per year. Most years, your portfolio will outperform cash or treasuries and, most importantly, it will never crash. In the meantime you pocket the small dividend stream.

Not to mindlessly hate on your 20% crypto allocation, but given that stocks can be hedged and cryptos all look like this chart, I wonder if you're worrying about the right risks. If you have a "I would sell everything today" number on the cryptocurrencies, how did you arrive at that valuation?

Travis

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #60 on: December 15, 2017, 03:02:52 PM »

I feel like I have been brainwashed to think that the stock market could collapse within my lifetime (it's only 200 years old and I wonder how long can this debt driven, fiat currency, federal reserve driven style can survive). When I was younger I was fed so much "collapse" type stuff.

Take a look through American 19th Century economics and the number of times there was a "Panic of 18XX."  That was their phrase for recession or depression.  Our market was quite volatile before the Federal Reserve system came along.  World markets had the same problems when everything was based on physical gold and silver coinage.  The lack or excess of physical money caused a lot of inflation/deflation cycles that ruined nations.  Our current system has its faults, but our currency has been pretty damn stable since.

Thank you all for contributing so far, this has is truly helping me get back on track!

Cheers to all whom have chimed in with helpful knowledge except for (essentially) yelling "bubble", "tulips" or "ponzi" due to a lack of education and/or misinformation.

Before you go calling out people yelling tulips and bubbles, the voices of concern are numerous and educated.  The present cryptocurrency rise shares many aspects with the speculations of previous centuries and back then every one of them said "but it's different this time."  You might be proven right over the long term, but only time will tell which is why some folks here are recommending you make it a manageable part of a larger portfolio.  The fact that not everybody understands cryptocurrency is in itself a cause for concern - especially lawmakers who could find a way through ignorance or malice to put restrictions on the growing industry. There was a discussion here a few weeks ago debating whether someone could make their fortune in marijuana stocks because it had nowhere to go but up (the counter being it was controversial, illegal in some places, and could be made illegal again in others).

Retire-Canada

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #61 on: December 15, 2017, 06:18:37 PM »
Does anyone still hold 100% Equities?

Yup. I do. I hold zero crypto. 

steveo

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #62 on: December 17, 2017, 04:13:56 AM »
Cheers to all whom have chimed in with helpful knowledge except for (essentially) yelling "bubble", "tulips" or "ponzi" due to a lack of education and/or misinformation.

I'm really not getting this comment. Did you know that there was a tulip bubble in the 1600's. I have no idea why everyone bought those tulips but they did. Did you know Sir Isaac Newton lost almost all his money on the South Sea Company ?

I love cryptocurrencies. I think they are a great idea. They are also basically a means of exchange. They are like money. Currently though they need to change a lot and who knows if any of these currencies will be a game changer when it comes to exchanging value.

I know for a fact that I work in IT and the topic of cryptocurrencies is coming up a lot and people are discussing their trading accounts. These people are just speculating. Crypto-currencies now have all the signs of a bubble. It's not a lack of education or misinformation. That is reality.

Anyway stocks and bonds should form the vast majority of your portfolio. Invest in those asset classes as per your risk profile. I would just go to Vanguard and get a couple of funds that meet your needs.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 04:17:51 AM by steveo »

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #63 on: December 17, 2017, 09:43:06 AM »
If you're worried about equity valuations then it's logical to give a large allocation to bonds.
So you might prefer a 50% bond to 50% stock allocation.
If you made a lot of money in crypto, then pare that down to your 20% allocation asap, and then create the balanced  portfolio as described above, which will greatly weather a stock correction.

PDXTabs

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #64 on: December 17, 2017, 11:07:07 AM »
Does anyone still hold 100% Equities?

I do, or at least, my retirement account is 100% VTWSX. I have a couple ETH that I have mined, but no cryptocurrency that I have paid for as an investment.

Exflyboy

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #65 on: December 17, 2017, 02:15:28 PM »
Well first off you are 26... When do you hope to retire.. or hope to be FI?

If it could be 20 years from now then I would go 100% stock ETFs.. The point being is economies always grow and large US companies are diversified internationally.

In 20 years time it is reasonable to assume you will have a lot more money than you do now, in fact the average rise in stocks is about 10% compound (including dividends)

I was 100% stocks up until a year before I retired.. probably a bit risky.. but say 5 years before retirement being 100% stocks is reasoable.

Cryptos?.. Sell them tomorrow. You have done well.. now sell them and celebrate your win.

Max out your 401k and Traditional IRAs if you can to reduce your tax bill.. Heck invest in an HSA too if you can.

pecunia

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #66 on: December 17, 2017, 08:03:45 PM »
From Above:

Quote
Assuming you accumulated half a lifetime's pay in the last year or two with Bitcoin (for even a pretty low-paid blue collar job, that's a cool million bucks in ~20 years/half a working life), you should be fully FI if you just take that money and stick it in some sort of low cost index (mostly stocks) fund. Period.

Tonyahu may not have been worried about the 4 percent rule, but with our society being in somewhat of a state of flux, I was beginning to wonder.  Most of the folks posting impress me as very intelligent in terms of investing and I thank you for the vote of confidence in the 4 percent rule.  Whew!


bacchi

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #67 on: December 17, 2017, 10:00:54 PM »
From Above:

Quote
Assuming you accumulated half a lifetime's pay in the last year or two with Bitcoin (for even a pretty low-paid blue collar job, that's a cool million bucks in ~20 years/half a working life), you should be fully FI if you just take that money and stick it in some sort of low cost index (mostly stocks) fund. Period.

Tonyahu may not have been worried about the 4 percent rule, but with our society being in somewhat of a state of flux, I was beginning to wonder.  Most of the folks posting impress me as very intelligent in terms of investing and I thank you for the vote of confidence in the 4 percent rule.  Whew!

It should be noted that the 4% SWR is based on US equities and bonds and that cryptocurrencies, for obvious reasons, aren't part of that historical analysis.

Cryptocurrency will change the world, according to the fanboys/girls, but, as previously mentioned, blockchain, which is pretty damn cool, is being used by companies without having a currency attached.



itchyfeet

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #68 on: December 18, 2017, 02:02:36 AM »
We're almost entirely rental real estate, because people always need somewhere to live, even if they're jobless. We're overdue for a price correction in Australia, but it's unlikely prices will crash entirely, since with manufacturing going overseas there's not a lot else for people to invest in. A general economic crisis will limit how much people can invest, but in times of economic crisis people do tend to go for lower-risk investments.

There is no doubt that residential property values have increased massively in Australia over the past 30 years, and with favorable tax treatment has been the easiest way to build a stash in Australia. But I really think it is time to cash some of the profits and take a more balanced approach to investment.

Maybe you are right that property wonít crash (and maybe not) but I think there are very good arguments for property values to increase by less than inflation over the next 10 years. Also Net Rental yields in capital cities are low compared to dividend yields.

Diversification of a good portion of your stash into equities and fixed interest would be a prudent move.

Kyle Schuant

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #69 on: December 28, 2017, 05:51:18 PM »
I don't expect housing cost to rise forever. If it did, at some point all the housing in the country would be owned by one person, and everyone else would rent. This is economically possible but politically untenable, so won't be allowed to happen.


Prices won't collapse US-style because we have different laws here; in the US people can essentially just leave the keys in the mailbox with a note for the bank and walk away. We also have more prudent banking regulations. Certainly prices will drop at some point, but they're not going to halve in less than a generation.


Essentially Aussie money has nowhere else to go except overseas. We've killed our manufacturing industry, and we're mining everything humanly possible, so people with spare cash to invest have nowhere else to stick it. Yeah, there's bank bonds - but ultimately the value of these is based on the bank's assets, which are in large part mortgage debt. So their value will track with real estate; if real estate collapses, the banks are in trouble, too. 


As for the rest of the market, prices of company stocks and so on, these are even more volatile than housing.


Long-term, I'm more interested in building my business, living off the income of producing something of real value, rather than simply idly living off financial shenanigans.

Bicycle_B

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #70 on: January 03, 2018, 09:46:34 PM »
@Tonyahu, Happy New Year!

Your diversification plan sounded good.  Have you started implementing it?

Best of luck. 

runbikerun

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #71 on: January 04, 2018, 12:46:06 AM »
Prices won't collapse US-style because we have different laws here; in the US people can essentially just leave the keys in the mailbox with a note for the bank and walk away. We also have more prudent banking regulations. Certainly prices will drop at some point, but they're not going to halve in less than a generation.

The laws you're describing sound pretty much identical to Ireland - where prices halved in about two years.

sol

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #72 on: January 04, 2018, 03:24:10 PM »
Hey guys, just need a quick check on my financial plan.  I'm going to rob all of my neighbours and then sell their stuff on craigslist, then retiree filthy rich! I'd love some feedback on this plan, but I don't want to talk about the robbery part.  Any advice for me?

steveo

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2018, 10:01:02 PM »
Hey guys, just need a quick check on my financial plan.  I'm going to rob all of my neighbours and then sell their stuff on craigslist, then retiree filthy rich! I'd love some feedback on this plan, but I don't want to talk about the robbery part.  Any advice for me?

Advertise on here as well. If you can get something cheap I'm in.

Retire-Canada

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #74 on: January 05, 2018, 07:37:07 AM »
Hey guys, just need a quick check on my financial plan.  I'm going to rob all of my neighbours and then sell their stuff on craigslist, then retiree filthy rich! I'd love some feedback on this plan, but I don't want to talk about the robbery part.  Any advice for me?

My advice is when selling the stuff only accept crypto as payment. I read on a forum that it was untraceable and it's a great investment. Better than tulips...not sure exactly what that means, but it sounds amazing. 

Travis

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Re: I don't believe in the 4% rule anymore...
« Reply #75 on: January 05, 2018, 10:32:00 AM »
Hey guys, just need a quick check on my financial plan.  I'm going to rob all of my neighbours and then sell their stuff on craigslist, then retiree filthy rich! I'd love some feedback on this plan, but I don't want to talk about the robbery part.  Any advice for me?

Well there is a guy on MMM's crypto article in the comments section unashamedly waiting to snatch up his over-extended neighbor's assets at rock-bottom prices should that bubble burst. Give him a call?