Author Topic: How to get rid of gold stash  (Read 2747 times)

erjkism

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How to get rid of gold stash
« on: May 09, 2019, 09:05:45 AM »
4 years ago I bought a sizable amount of physical gold (5-10% of my net worth) out of paranoia.  Recently I've realized this was stupid. Does anyone know a good way to sell this gold and put the proceeds into VTSAX?

Thanks

flipboard

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2019, 10:40:39 AM »
4 years ago I bought a sizable amount of physical gold (5-10% of my net worth) out of paranoia.  Recently I've realized this was stupid. Does anyone know a good way to sell this gold and put the proceeds into VTSAX?

Thanks
Physical, or paper gold?

5-10% is actually a reasonable amount of gold to hold (even Bogle himself has suggested 5% gold as a good hedge), so it's not stupid. But you have to understand why you might want to hold it for it to be a sensible decision.

Valuable reading (by Bernstein of four pillars of investing fame):
http://www.efficientfrontier.com/ef/adhoc/gold.htm

appleshampooid

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 12:17:08 PM »
4 years ago I bought a sizable amount of physical gold (5-10% of my net worth) out of paranoia.  Recently I've realized this was stupid. Does anyone know a good way to sell this gold and put the proceeds into VTSAX?

Thanks
I haven't sold any gold, but I have bought a relatively small amount of it (and silver). Presently about 2% of net worth, not enough to really do anything, but I joke I can trade it for chickens when the apocalypse comes.

Anyway, you have a couple options. You can hit up the local shops. Hopefully a reputable coin/bullion dealer that would give you a quote and not a pawn shop or something shady like that.

Second option is to get a quote from an online place. APMEX for example:
https://www.apmex.com/sell-gold-sell-silver-overview

There are other online dealers as well.

I have no experience in this area but I think those are your 2 general avenues. Let us know how it goes!

SuperSecretName

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2019, 01:30:23 PM »
call jmbullion.  they will likely offer the best price over Apmex.  They recently started an insured shipping program via UPS (actually reasonable).  They pay via ACH.

Only thing to keep in mind depending on what type you bought:  sale of certain products are 1099 reportable to the IRS over certain quantities if sold in one day. 
https://www.jmbullion.com/faq/report-purchases-government/
« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 07:23:07 AM by SuperSecretName »

SharkStomper

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2019, 05:10:10 PM »
I've had good luck with local gold/silver/coin shops.  The ones I've used have paid out based on spot price.

TomTX

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2019, 07:13:26 PM »
Best price I ever found for silver was at a gun show. Guy paid me above spot. 

I never made a real study of it, as I have never owned that much silver/gold.

v8rx7guy

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2019, 08:08:19 PM »
Ebay is actually a decent place to get money for your gold.  Typically even after fees you can get more money vs. Selling to other places.  A local coin shop may be another option, just make sure you know what it's actually worth before heading in.

Radagast

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2019, 08:57:42 PM »
I know a guy


MustacheAndaHalf

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2019, 09:10:25 PM »
Ebay is actually a decent place to get money for your gold.  Typically even after fees you can get more money vs. Selling to other places.  A local coin shop may be another option, just make sure you know what it's actually worth before heading in.
Ebay charges 10% of the value of your sale.  So if you sell for 10% over spot price, plus shipping, you break even.

Online gold buyers/sellers are a better choice, as their buy/sell spreads are much less than 10%.

CoffeeR

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2019, 09:12:32 PM »
Ebay is actually a decent place to get money for your gold.  Typically even after fees you can get more money vs. Selling to other places.  A local coin shop may be another option, just make sure you know what it's actually worth before heading in.
I was under impression you have no real recourse as a seller on eBay if you get defrauded. Of course, they claim otherwise, but eBay pretty much always sides with the buyer unless you are a big "institutional" type seller. So a buyer can easily always claim "product was not as described" (regardless of facts) and get away with it. I've stopped selling on eBay after items that were 100% functional at sale were returned to me broken.

v8rx7guy

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2019, 09:34:27 PM »
Well that's how I sold a few ounces of mine... but that was like 2013 so I guess things can change and YMMV.

mrmoonymartian

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2019, 09:47:23 PM »
Why get rid of your gold right when the top is in?

Seriously though, I would think very carefully about changing AA based on a couple of years experience. You already knew that gold is a hedge when you got it, so there should have been no surprises here. What exactly has changed in your view?

CoffeeR

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2019, 09:08:33 AM »
Why get rid of your gold right when the top is in?

Seriously though, I would think very carefully about changing AA based on a couple of years experience. You already knew that gold is a hedge when you got it, so there should have been no surprises here. What exactly has changed in your view?
Actual gold as an investment is a pain to manage (overhead to sell/buy, security, liquidity, etc). I would get rid of all gold that does not have some other kind of utilitarian function (e.g. jewelry).

mrmoonymartian

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2019, 09:38:58 AM »
Why get rid of your gold right when the top is in?

Seriously though, I would think very carefully about changing AA based on a couple of years experience. You already knew that gold is a hedge when you got it, so there should have been no surprises here. What exactly has changed in your view?
Actual gold as an investment is a pain to manage (overhead to sell/buy, security, liquidity, etc). I would get rid of all gold that does not have some other kind of utilitarian function (e.g. jewelry).
OP wants to put it into VTSAX though, which is a change to asset allocation and not just from physical to paper gold. I'm suggesting it is generally prudent to examine your reasons for changing asset allocations since recent experience is prone to bias from fear and greed. Is this change a correction to a previous error, or introducing an error? How do you know the answer unless you interrogate your reasoning?

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2019, 08:22:20 PM »
How did you buy the gold in the first place?  Would be that the same place you could sell the gold ?

What were the "paranoid" reasons for buying the gold ?

vand

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #15 on: May 13, 2019, 03:08:35 AM »
Buy low, sell high... seems simple, doesn't it?

unfortunately as this OP demonstrates, people tend to do the opposite because they invest at the whims of sentiment. They but the hot investment that has gone up over the last few years, get fed up of it when it doesn't perform to their expectation and end up quietly discarding it somewhere around the bottom.

IMO swapping your gold for stocks right now is about the biggest mistake you can make. Not because I think the USD is going to collapse tomorrow and take all paper assets with it, but just from a sensible asset allocation strategy.

Goldy

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #16 on: May 13, 2019, 08:18:55 PM »
Apmex has been good for me.  Iím sure you know this but stay away from mall gold buyers.

eBay has also been excellent

Car Jack

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #17 on: May 14, 2019, 06:56:22 AM »
If I were unloading, I'd only do Apmex, local bullion dealer and craigslist for only small amounts at a time.

Regardless, keep track of what you paid and what you sold for.  You should be able to take a tax loss.  (the best part of PMs these days....you take a loss)

vand

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 10:30:51 AM »
Do you think the OP went through and did this trade??

With gold +20% and the VTSAX flat since May 9th, that's a -20% return.. pretty good going for just under 4 months. Or if they had done the reverse trade they would be 20% up, so a 40% swing for the person who faded this trade.

This investing lark's easy, right? :D

trollwithamustache

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #19 on: August 27, 2019, 10:56:08 AM »
well, that was a solid trade if you bought under 1250 and are looking to unload above 1500.

Cut down to 1-2% of assets in gold. Go to a couple dealers and get prices they will pay.

note the 10K cut off that triggers reporting. There may be benefits to a series of small change in position sizing depending on the state of your opinion on gold's future.

vand

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #20 on: August 27, 2019, 12:05:28 PM »
well, that was a solid trade if you bought under 1250 and are looking to unload above 1500.

Cut down to 1-2% of assets in gold. Go to a couple dealers and get prices they will pay.

note the 10K cut off that triggers reporting. There may be benefits to a series of small change in position sizing depending on the state of your opinion on gold's future.

Gold is going to much higher highs is my opinion of gold future..

A x5-10 revalulation is not atypical of a cyclical bull market. We have had unprecented monetary and fiscal stimulus since the financial crisis to preserve the current system, which is no longer fit for purpose.

Dalio recently said that gold is likely to be "both risk-reducing and return enhancing" within the next investing paradigm.. interpret that how you want, but imo as someone who looks at large macro trends he would not say that if he though the upside was limited to 20% or even 50% or maybe even 100%

« Last Edit: August 27, 2019, 12:07:36 PM by vand »

erjkism

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2019, 05:32:05 PM »
I originally bought gold because I wanted to keep some of my net worth outside the system. I was also worried that the market was going to tank, and that if trump became president, gold would skyrocket. I guess some of these reasons for holding gold still apply...

I emailed a local coinshop that buys gold, but they never responded to me so I kind of forgot about the whole thing.  Fortunately, looks like the gold price is going up... which means I should probably sell a little bit of it. Reading through the replies makes me want to stick with a local person, so I'll see if I can find someone interested. 


vand

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2019, 04:50:04 AM »
I originally bought gold because I wanted to keep some of my net worth outside the system. I was also worried that the market was going to tank, and that if trump became president, gold would skyrocket. I guess some of these reasons for holding gold still apply...

I emailed a local coinshop that buys gold, but they never responded to me so I kind of forgot about the whole thing.  Fortunately, looks like the gold price is going up... which means I should probably sell a little bit of it. Reading through the replies makes me want to stick with a local person, so I'll see if I can find someone interested.

Well considering what actually happened (gold tanked and stocks rocketed) following Trump's win perhaps you need to question your judgement and consider doing the opposite of what your gut is telling you.

I honestly can't think of a worse change in AA to make right now that swapping your gold for stocks, but I've been around long enough and through enough market cycles to know that this is how "dumb money" behaves... it sells underpriced assets near the bottom of a bear market and buys overpriced assets near the top of a bull market. The smart money does the opposite.

They say that dumb money stops being dumb when it recognises its limitations.. I say that the dumb money acting as smart money turns back to being dumb money when it can't think for itself.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 05:07:38 AM by vand »

chasesfish

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2019, 05:25:02 AM »
I've also sold to APMEX

Radagast

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Re: How to get rid of gold stash
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2019, 08:16:31 AM »
I've been around long enough and through enough market cycles to know that this is how "dumb money" behaves... it sells underpriced assets near the bottom of a bear market and buys overpriced assets near the top of a bull market. The smart money does the opposite.

For UK investors like myself gold has just set all time highs in the local currency and beaten the FTSE Acc over multiple significant timeframes... during one of the greatest stock bull markets in history.

Gold vs FTSE Acc over 5 yrs:
https://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=%24GOLD%3A%24GBPUSD&p=D&yr=5&mn=0&dy=0&id=p11467062996
...