Author Topic: Is Day Trading Worth It?  (Read 25775 times)

powskier

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #100 on: October 15, 2016, 11:44:43 PM »
Day trading is fun and exciting, you should do it.
You should also do lots of drugs, drive 150mph on the freeway and have sex with strangers while under the influence.
Oh and don't worry about the fact that you are still new to securities, just do whatever strangers on Yahoo message boards do. Also penny stocks are awesome, and fun.





Trying to decide if I should mention words like "sarcasm" and "disclaimer". Naaaaa.

Frugalman19

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #101 on: October 16, 2016, 10:01:25 AM »
There are going to be people who make money trading, just like there are going to be online bloggers who end up making millions (*cough* MMM, *cough*).   Does it mean you will likely make significant money blogging?  Statistics say no way.  Still, it does happen.

But if 99.9% of people who try trading lose, then it is probably not a good idea.

If you have made consistent 30% returns over the last 15 years, you are not lucky. You are simply one of the most successful day traders out there, possibly of all time. Your should seriously consider doing it as a profession, because I dont know of any mutual funds or hedge funds for that matter with that kind of return, and their money managers make $100+ million dollars a year to try and eek out 12% returns.

If you make 30% for one or three years thats luck. But to make 30% in the past 15 year, which is known for being a particularly tricky market, thats not luck. I think you have a calling.

GuitarStv

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #102 on: October 16, 2016, 03:20:05 PM »
There are going to be people who make money trading, just like there are going to be online bloggers who end up making millions (*cough* MMM, *cough*).   Does it mean you will likely make significant money blogging?  Statistics say no way.  Still, it does happen.

But if 99.9% of people who try trading lose, then it is probably not a good idea.

If you have made consistent 30% returns over the last 15 years, you are not lucky. You are simply one of the most successful day traders out there, possibly of all time. Your should seriously consider doing it as a profession, because I dont know of any mutual funds or hedge funds for that matter with that kind of return, and their money managers make $100+ million dollars a year to try and eek out 12% returns.

If you make 30% for one or three years thats luck. But to make 30% in the past 15 year, which is known for being a particularly tricky market, thats not luck. I think you have a calling.

We have people in this thread who claim to consistently make 20% returns each month.  :P

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #103 on: October 16, 2016, 04:42:08 PM »
There are going to be people who make money trading, just like there are going to be online bloggers who end up making millions (*cough* MMM, *cough*).   Does it mean you will likely make significant money blogging?  Statistics say no way.  Still, it does happen.

But if 99.9% of people who try trading lose, then it is probably not a good idea.

If you have made consistent 30% returns over the last 15 years, you are not lucky. You are simply one of the most successful day traders out there, possibly of all time. Your should seriously consider doing it as a profession, because I dont know of any mutual funds or hedge funds for that matter with that kind of return, and their money managers make $100+ million dollars a year to try and eek out 12% returns.

If you make 30% for one or three years thats luck. But to make 30% in the past 15 year, which is known for being a particularly tricky market, thats not luck. I think you have a calling.

You do realize it has not been exactly 30% each year right?  Just an average of 30% compounded yearly over 15 years.  I had one year early on where I was down 80% and only the absurdly stupid move of Microsoft buying Nokia saved me.

How many investors would stick with someone who lost 80% of their money one year (even if they eventually made it all back and more to get the average 30% per year return)?  It is probably why I cannot reproduce the past 15 years with significant money.  It is one thing to see $5,000 drop to $1,000 but quite another to see $500,000 drop to $100,000.  I still can sleep while having $120,000 at risk, but it is getting close to my tolerance limit.

PizzaSteve

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #104 on: October 16, 2016, 05:05:52 PM »
IMO day trading is not worth it.

As has been said, one must make money in excess of transaction fees and also taxes.

Taxes are generally high on short term profits, so when you succeed you get nailed with high taxes.

If you fail, you likely to not benefit much from the tax losses.

It's usually a lose, lose 'opportunity.'  That said, good luck with your gambling experiment.  I understand Vegas has great pawn shops.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2016, 05:36:26 PM by PizzaSteve »

arebelspy

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #105 on: October 16, 2016, 08:48:50 PM »
Just an average of 30% compounded yearly over 15 years.  I had one year early on where I was down 80% and only the absurdly stupid move of Microsoft buying Nokia saved me.

Well this timeline doesn't add up.

15 years ago was 2001.

Microsoft announced the purchase of Nokia's phone assets in September 2013 and finalized the deal in April 2014.

You were down 80% "early" (2002?  2003?) but that acquisition just 2-3 years ago "saved" you...?
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steveo

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #106 on: October 17, 2016, 03:53:22 AM »
I taught myself to trade and I use Stockcharts. There's a lot of educational info on their site. It's good to learn from other traders but before you play with a substantial amount of money, you have to become confident with your trading abilities and trade on what you feel, not what someone else feels. The more experience you have, the less risky it is. I have also heard that most traders fail. I don't know where the stats come from. Maybe it's true. It isn't easy but if you work at it, you can become successful. A lot of the advice that people give against trading is bullshit. If you are smart and tend to think out of the box, you can do it.
The bolded lines are what I have comments about. 

I think as one trades, success is just as likely to create the illusion that you are getting better as actually creating skills.  Some of the top traders I knew developed habit over time that actually reduced their effectiveness.  The best traders are like computer programs.  They don't succeed by getting better, they succeed by repeating something that works, flawlessly, and don't change.

Anecdotally, I have had some experience with professional trading firms, though I was in the strategy area, not trading.  When I worked with these two successful trading firms, I found that the key to their success was not skill based at all.

My conclusion was that they made money because they had:
   1) superior information in the markets they traded,
   2) access to cheaper capital than most people can get,
   3) operated at a scale that they could literally move and manipulate commodity prices in localized markets, and
   4) dealt in a markets with occasionally price insensitive buyers they could abuse.

So, if you have the 4 factors above, trading can be very profitable.  These guys still occasionally had someone rip their face off and took huge losses.  It is part of the game.

The challenge with stocks is that they are so liquid and globally traded, it is very very hard to make money in a consistent way.   #1 is either impossible or illegal; #2 is usually unattainable because cheap money always has at least some cost...still capital is cheap now.  No top traders risk their own money (bad), which should be instructive to you; #3 requires that you do this as a professional and as a company and usually invest in technology to compete (on the plus side the cost of tech has dropped, but negative side is globalize go markets are too huge to dominate mostly); #4 does still exist.  Finding stupid buyers or sellers is probably your best hope, but make sure you are not the stupid one when facing inefficiencies.  I hear. Bennie Babies are readily available.

I think that there is also some false beliefs here. I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once. He definitely isn't a robot. It's all feel.

He also came up with a trading algorithm with a programmer. It was all backed by other people's money. It was one of the failures.

The guy I know had positions so big at one time that unwinding them would have moved the whole market and this is the currency market. He couldn't figure out how to get out and eventually wrote some options that he knew would get triggered.

I don't believe anyone's ideas when it comes to trading. If traders were making money with all their great ideas like triple bottoms or whatever they wouldn't write books about it.

There is a tonne of money in trading. Taking the fees and the bid/ask spread from punters.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #107 on: October 17, 2016, 06:53:42 AM »
Just an average of 30% compounded yearly over 15 years.  I had one year early on where I was down 80% and only the absurdly stupid move of Microsoft buying Nokia saved me.

Well this timeline doesn't add up.

15 years ago was 2001.

Microsoft announced the purchase of Nokia's phone assets in September 2013 and finalized the deal in April 2014.

You were down 80% "early" (2002?  2003?) but that acquisition just 2-3 years ago "saved" you...?

Maybe the "early" part was not quite accurate.   I started getting into Nokia in way too early in 2009, after they had dropped a huge amount and I bought in again in 2011 and near the bottom at $2 something in 2012.  It was horrible.   It recovered some but I was still at like $6 cost basis with the stock around $3.xx.  Then microsoft comes and bails them out, and when the stock hit $8 on that, I sold everything.

It seems so long ago but maybe just because I tried to put it out of my memory.

Frugalman19

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #108 on: October 17, 2016, 09:39:47 AM »
There are going to be people who make money trading, just like there are going to be online bloggers who end up making millions (*cough* MMM, *cough*).   Does it mean you will likely make significant money blogging?  Statistics say no way.  Still, it does happen.

But if 99.9% of people who try trading lose, then it is probably not a good idea.

If you have made consistent 30% returns over the last 15 years, you are not lucky. You are simply one of the most successful day traders out there, possibly of all time. Your should seriously consider doing it as a profession, because I dont know of any mutual funds or hedge funds for that matter with that kind of return, and their money managers make $100+ million dollars a year to try and eek out 12% returns.

If you make 30% for one or three years thats luck. But to make 30% in the past 15 year, which is known for being a particularly tricky market, thats not luck. I think you have a calling.

You do realize it has not been exactly 30% each year right?  Just an average of 30% compounded yearly over 15 years.  I had one year early on where I was down 80% and only the absurdly stupid move of Microsoft buying Nokia saved me.

How many investors would stick with someone who lost 80% of their money one year (even if they eventually made it all back and more to get the average 30% per year return)?  It is probably why I cannot reproduce the past 15 years with significant money.  It is one thing to see $5,000 drop to $1,000 but quite another to see $500,000 drop to $100,000.  I still can sleep while having $120,000 at risk, but it is getting close to my tolerance limit.

of course I understand it is an average. But you do realize, with that average you have beaten almost all professional money managers out there, and im talking hedge funds too where they have complete discretion to go into any asset class. There are plenty of funds out there that are specifically targeted for big growth. I would seriously start looking into this as some side work. Like I said before, if it was even 5 years it might be good luck, but 15 years, completely wipes out the notion of being lucky. The law of large numbers and statistics start coming into play and luck is out the window, thats like landing heads 50 times in a row.

I guess the difference between you and I, is if I did more than triple my money, I would have taken my profits long ago and moved them into index funds and just chalked it up to right place right time. Because day trading is simply gambling, yes you might have some skill added, but at the end of the day it is gambling. Every expert in finance will tell you that.


waltworks

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #109 on: October 17, 2016, 12:12:06 PM »
Dubious attempt to change story.

Pwned by Arebelspy. I don't know how anyone can take your story seriously after that.

-W

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #110 on: October 17, 2016, 01:12:14 PM »
I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once.

Once again, this is why day trading is not worth it to most people.
You HAVE to use stop losses, if there is 50/50 chance you will be right on a stock price, or a micro jump. And you have your stop loss set 50% of the point of which  you think your gains will be, you will make money.

People lose in day trading by thinking they have to hold, which then ties up their capital which then stops them from day trading. And after a few days, they sell for a huge loss, rather than taking that small .25% loss.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #111 on: October 17, 2016, 01:20:15 PM »
Dubious attempt to change story.

Pwned by Arebelspy. I don't know how anyone can take your story seriously after that.

-W

I don't really care what they take seriously.   It isn't like I was getting paid to post exact trades.  I was not able to figure out how to get a history on Etrade back to 2001.   So excuse me if I called trading from 2009 to 2012 "early on".

The really early trades were mostly Microsoft Jan call options at about $30 strike IIRC.   This WAS back in the mid 2000s.

As for Arebelspy, I have taken his word that he is able to make $1000 to $2000 a month scamming credit card companies.  I haven't questioned his numbers.

steveo

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #112 on: October 17, 2016, 03:41:44 PM »
Roland - without meaning to be disrespectful to you I think what happens is people have selective memory when it comes to trading. My opinion is that every person may have some ability to trade well but it has nothing at all to do with what we are told works. It's much more like gambling on horses.

I doubt you've accurately documented all your trading costs/fees and each trade that you've made. You might think that your up that amount but it's really unlikely. It's also really unlikely that you will make any sort of reasonable return if you continue to follow that process. No one can predict the future with a high level of consistency.

Roland of Gilead

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #113 on: October 17, 2016, 05:31:15 PM »
Roland - without meaning to be disrespectful to you I think what happens is people have selective memory when it comes to trading. My opinion is that every person may have some ability to trade well but it has nothing at all to do with what we are told works. It's much more like gambling on horses.

I doubt you've accurately documented all your trading costs/fees and each trade that you've made. You might think that your up that amount but it's really unlikely. It's also really unlikely that you will make any sort of reasonable return if you continue to follow that process. No one can predict the future with a high level of consistency.

I did not document each trade along with the fees, but my account at Etrade has never had a dime added to it and was $1700 when my 401K at a former company was rolled over to a IRA at Etrade in 2001.   My current balance is around $120,000 (actually down a few thousand since we started this thread because Gilead has been performing poorly...I am not worried yet though).

So if you take 2016 - 2001 as 15 years, and realize it takes about a 7000% gain to get from $1700 to $120,000, you can calculate out the average compounded annual return it would take, which is about 32%.

If Gilead goes to zero tomorrow, then my gain would drop from 7000% down to about 500% (I have around $9,000 in cash in the account).  My average compounded annual return would then be a much less impressive 12% or so.

My actual gains each year have run from about -80% to +200%   Volatile.

arebelspy

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #114 on: October 17, 2016, 06:08:35 PM »
I don't think you're lying Roland. I think you believe everything you say.  And I think almost all of it is true, too*.

I do believe your high returns.  I don't think they're sustainable, or feasible, with larger amounts (as you have indicated as well), or necessarily a product of any sort of skill or particular rationale.  As you said, Microsoft not bailing you out means we're having a very different conversation right here.

*I say almost all, because it ties into the comments walt and stevo made: memory is faulty, and I think there's likely things you're mistaken on regarding that account.  I don't know what they would be, and I have no reason to question any particular item of information, but just like I know some of my own memories are wrong (but not which ones), I think the odds are overwhelmingly likely something in your story is wrong, just due to how the human brain works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preface_paradox
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Roland of Gilead

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #115 on: October 17, 2016, 07:20:49 PM »
With the volatility that I have admitted to, I think we can still say my returns really boil down to luck.

If you took $1700 right now and bought October $80 calls on Gilead for $0.03, expiring this Friday and then news comes out tomorrow that Gilead is going to merge with Merck, or split up into two companies, or anything else that drives the price up 15%, you would turn the $1700 into $226,000.  In one or two days.  Now you take the money and invest for the next 14 years relatively safely, in several blue chip stocks across different industries.

You can then say your average annual return is 38% or whatever it works out to be, when in reality you made some really big lucky trades.

I think this is what I am trying to say happened.   I have traded this account for 15 years but had some lucky breaks which overcame some big losses.  Nobody would want to risk serious money doing things this way.  Who would want to be down 80%, even for just a year?  It sucks.

arebelspy

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #116 on: October 17, 2016, 07:28:53 PM »
Definitely.

Hope you continue to get lucky, so it doesn't suck!  :)
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steveo

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #117 on: October 17, 2016, 08:19:51 PM »
I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once.

Once again, this is why day trading is not worth it to most people.
You HAVE to use stop losses, if there is 50/50 chance you will be right on a stock price, or a micro jump. And you have your stop loss set 50% of the point of which  you think your gains will be, you will make money.

People lose in day trading by thinking they have to hold, which then ties up their capital which then stops them from day trading. And after a few days, they sell for a huge loss, rather than taking that small .25% loss.

I honestly don't believe this. It's the same concept in longer term trading. I'll tell you what the trader I know did. When he got a job running a big banks trading operations he told everyone that they had to take bigger positions and I don't think he ever said anyone needs to have a stop loss

The reason why is because stop losses shake you out of your positions. You need commitment to hold that position and make a profit.

What you state sounds good in theory but I don't believe it works in reality.

I'll state that there will always be a flip side. Some people might make money with stop losses. I'm not sure if it's rarer than day traders who make money but I think it would be.

AlanStache

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #118 on: October 18, 2016, 06:44:21 AM »
I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once.

Once again, this is why day trading is not worth it to most people.
You HAVE to use stop losses, if there is 50/50 chance you will be right on a stock price, or a micro jump. And you have your stop loss set 50% of the point of which  you think your gains will be, you will make money.

People lose in day trading by thinking they have to hold, which then ties up their capital which then stops them from day trading. And after a few days, they sell for a huge loss, rather than taking that small .25% loss.

I honestly don't believe this. It's the same concept in longer term trading. I'll tell you what the trader I know did. When he got a job running a big banks trading operations he told everyone that they had to take bigger positions and I don't think he ever said anyone needs to have a stop loss

The reason why is because stop losses shake you out of your positions. You need commitment to hold that position and make a profit.

What you state sounds good in theory but I don't believe it works in reality.

I'll state that there will always be a flip side. Some people might make money with stop losses. I'm not sure if it's rarer than day traders who make money but I think it would be.

Why would someone who is watching a price more or less full time need a stop loss?  I get why someone not watching full time would use one.


lordmetroid

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #119 on: October 18, 2016, 10:48:01 AM »
I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once.

Once again, this is why day trading is not worth it to most people.
You HAVE to use stop losses, if there is 50/50 chance you will be right on a stock price, or a micro jump. And you have your stop loss set 50% of the point of which  you think your gains will be, you will make money.

People lose in day trading by thinking they have to hold, which then ties up their capital which then stops them from day trading. And after a few days, they sell for a huge loss, rather than taking that small .25% loss.

I honestly don't believe this. It's the same concept in longer term trading. I'll tell you what the trader I know did. When he got a job running a big banks trading operations he told everyone that they had to take bigger positions and I don't think he ever said anyone needs to have a stop loss

The reason why is because stop losses shake you out of your positions. You need commitment to hold that position and make a profit.

What you state sounds good in theory but I don't believe it works in reality.

I'll state that there will always be a flip side. Some people might make money with stop losses. I'm not sure if it's rarer than day traders who make money but I think it would be.

Why would someone who is watching a price more or less full time need a stop loss?  I get why someone not watching full time would use one.
Because when news of the shit hitting the fan. Everything goes incredibly fast.

DrF

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #120 on: October 18, 2016, 12:14:24 PM »
Unless you're trading futures (real time 24 hours a day, ~5 days a week availability), your position could change 10-30% before you would be able to do anything (buy or sell). Even if you had a stop-loss, the price could jump well past it before the markets are open to you. Here is an example of someone shorting a pharmaceutical stock and not being able to get out.

http://www.joshuakennon.com/how-joe-campbell-found-himself-106445-56-in-debt-to-his-broker-in-a-matter-of-minutes-because-he-didnt-understand-the-risks-of-shorting-stock/

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #121 on: October 18, 2016, 12:52:09 PM »
Hey Roland.  Gratz.  I trade too and do OK.  Not 30% annualized since inception but OK.  I keep a record of what I do at my blog and it has helped me realize my actual net returns aren't as good as I originally thought they were.  If you don't have it down on paper, its human nature to be a little biased.  But don't let the haterz stop you from doing something that works for you.

MoonLiteNite

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #122 on: October 18, 2016, 12:56:29 PM »
I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once.

Once again, this is why day trading is not worth it to most people.
You HAVE to use stop losses, if there is 50/50 chance you will be right on a stock price, or a micro jump. And you have your stop loss set 50% of the point of which  you think your gains will be, you will make money.

People lose in day trading by thinking they have to hold, which then ties up their capital which then stops them from day trading. And after a few days, they sell for a huge loss, rather than taking that small .25% loss.

I honestly don't believe this. It's the same concept in longer term trading. I'll tell you what the trader I know did. When he got a job running a big banks trading operations he told everyone that they had to take bigger positions and I don't think he ever said anyone needs to have a stop loss

The reason why is because stop losses shake you out of your positions. You need commitment to hold that position and make a profit.

What you state sounds good in theory but I don't believe it works in reality.

I'll state that there will always be a flip side. Some people might make money with stop losses. I'm not sure if it's rarer than day traders who make money but I think it would be.

Why would someone who is watching a price more or less full time need a stop loss?  I get why someone not watching full time would use one.

Watch some level 2s during an earnings report or during a lawsuit being shown on CNN..... when you have a 50cent spread and the price is jumping between 3.50 and 4.00 every 2secs, if that sucker hits 3.49 you want OUT now.
You want a stop loss.....

AlanStache

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #123 on: October 18, 2016, 01:35:54 PM »
I know a top trader. He risks his own money and doesn't use a stop loss. He made his money though trading other people's money and he has busted out more than once.

Once again, this is why day trading is not worth it to most people.
You HAVE to use stop losses, if there is 50/50 chance you will be right on a stock price, or a micro jump. And you have your stop loss set 50% of the point of which  you think your gains will be, you will make money.

People lose in day trading by thinking they have to hold, which then ties up their capital which then stops them from day trading. And after a few days, they sell for a huge loss, rather than taking that small .25% loss.

I honestly don't believe this. It's the same concept in longer term trading. I'll tell you what the trader I know did. When he got a job running a big banks trading operations he told everyone that they had to take bigger positions and I don't think he ever said anyone needs to have a stop loss

The reason why is because stop losses shake you out of your positions. You need commitment to hold that position and make a profit.

What you state sounds good in theory but I don't believe it works in reality.

I'll state that there will always be a flip side. Some people might make money with stop losses. I'm not sure if it's rarer than day traders who make money but I think it would be.

Why would someone who is watching a price more or less full time need a stop loss?  I get why someone not watching full time would use one.

Watch some level 2s during an earnings report or during a lawsuit being shown on CNN..... when you have a 50cent spread and the price is jumping between 3.50 and 4.00 every 2secs, if that sucker hits 3.49 you want OUT now.
You want a stop loss.....
ok, thanks.  in summary you are saying computer are faster than humans :-)

PizzaSteve

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #124 on: October 18, 2016, 03:26:51 PM »
Unless you're trading futures (real time 24 hours a day, ~5 days a week availability), your position could change 10-30% before you would be able to do anything (buy or sell). Even if you had a stop-loss, the price could jump well past it before the markets are open to you. Here is an example of someone shorting a pharmaceutical stock and not being able to get out.

http://www.joshuakennon.com/how-joe-campbell-found-himself-106445-56-in-debt-to-his-broker-in-a-matter-of-minutes-because-he-didnt-understand-the-risks-of-shorting-stock/

Or unless you are operating part of the market.  The successful traders I dealt with both traded and took positions within the markets they traded, including operating sub-markets.  Part of the strategy was to control some elements of overall supply and demand.

So in effect they were both day trading and taking long or long-short positions.  Ideally they used the short term trading to also help create supply for unwinding the long positions. 

It is analogous to the CEO day trading his own stock.  He has information not generally available and also can influence overall supply by issuing shares to raise capital.  In most markets this type of stuff gets regulated away....eventually.

steveo

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #125 on: October 18, 2016, 10:29:12 PM »
You want a stop loss.....

And yet the guy I know who managed a big banks treasury operations (basically trading) and a billionaire's hedge fund thinks they don't work. He is also a multi-millionaire from trading.

He taught me how to trade and one thing that I got out of it was the idea of following the so called rules doesn't work out that good in reality.

I accept some people may be different but I think a lot of the trading rules don't work.

I learnt that you need to have a big set of balls and hold onto a big position when it is making money. The flip side of this is that you may hold onto losing positions too long. If you don't do this though I think you will get cut with a thousand little cuts. You will get way too many losses and that will kill your account.

pbkmaine

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #126 on: October 19, 2016, 12:42:42 AM »
When I was a financial planner, I had a client with a PhD in Economics from Oxford. He ran the derivatives trading desk at one of the big investment houses. Where did he put his own money? Index funds.

Tyson

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Re: Is Day Trading Worth It?
« Reply #127 on: October 23, 2016, 01:29:19 PM »
Good lord - just reading this post makes me stressed out.  WTF, just drop it into index funds and forget about it!  The point of MMM is not to get rich, but to enjoy life.  The whole point of FIRE (IMO) is to remove stresses like this from your life.