Author Topic: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones  (Read 1336 times)

Traveler15

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Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« on: October 29, 2019, 04:48:44 PM »
My parents have asked for my help in managing their inheritance (grandparents passed away).  Currently this is mostly at the Edward Jones.  I have not seen the individual funds or allocation, but it is easy to deduce that the fees are outrageous.  Mt parents trust my judgment and will move away from Edward Jones if I strongly suggest it.

I am meeting the adviser with them in the next week or so on more of a fact-gathering mission.  I am not planning to start the meeting by hinting at the fact that we will in all likelihood fire him. 

What kind of questions should I be asking this adviser?

1.) Tax implications.  My (limited) understanding is that these are in taxable accounts and thus the basis would be stepped up to market value, i,.e., no capital gains when my parents sell and move to Vanguard.
 
2.) Fee structure.  I am going to ask what the current fees look like (ER, loads, etc.).  I am genuinely curious how they will spin this.
 
If this was someone we would stay with there would be others like his fiduciary role and others, but that really does not matter at this point from my opinion.

What other questions would you all be asking?

Thanks in advance.

Zamboni

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2019, 05:07:09 PM »
Edward Jones grooms their salespeople to rob people of their hard earned nest egg. Dump them as fast as you can.

You can indeed ask if he has a fiduciary responsibility. He doesn't. That's all you need to know to pull the rip cord.

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2019, 05:36:40 PM »
Iím not really following the logic to why youíre going to waste time sitting down with this Edward Jones adviser. If your parents are already on board with your recommendation to move it out of there, I just see the meeting as an opportunity for their sales guy to muddy the waters and confuse your parents.

If it was my parents, Iíd just call Vanguard and ask about the process of moving the money over, what all I needed to know about tax implications, and get it moved ASAP.

If youíre wanting to meet with Edward Jones because you yourself arenít yet convinced itís not the place for your parentsí investments, then let us know because thatís an issue we should address right away!

Frankies Girl

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2019, 05:38:19 PM »
Your parents and you should not meet with the EJ person. At all. Especially do not hint in any way that you will be leaving because they likely will make it horrible for your parents to get free (there are so many shitty things EJ reps have done to make it 10 times harder to get out).

There are no questions whatsoever you should be asking this person. Cancel the meeting and get things figured out to extricate the accounts as quickly as possible. Do not waste your time meeting with them.



Please clarify the following as it directly pertains to the accuracy of my following statements.

1. BOTH parents JUST inherited EJ accounts from their parent/s? Like within the last few months to under 1 year? WHO inherited from WHO and WHEN?
2. What type of accounts? ALL taxable/brokerages, or are there any IRA/401k/403b or other pre-tax/retirement accounts?

This is what I would do under the same circumstances (and will be if/when my MIL passes as all her accounts are at EJ as well).

FIRST: confirm (by phone/email) that accounts were switched over to new/owed accounts by parent that inherited. NEXT, make sure any inherited IRA/401k type accounts had a required minimum distribution taken if your parent was required to take one.

Then the following:

Basing this on the idea that this is concerning a very recent inheritance (under 1 year and hopefully a whole lot less time), then even tho there will be tax generated from the taxable/brokerage accounts when you sell off off funds/stocks/whatever... it is best to sell off EVERYTHING and go 100% cash. Stepped up costs applies on inherited things like this, and what that means is the date of death is the reset for the funds' value. So any loss OR gain is therefore reportable and taxable. If you sell off ASAP after inheriting, then you minimize the damage. This does not matter if any funds are inside any type of IRA or most any pre-tax retirement accounts (selling doesn't create any taxable events, just pulling money out does).



Inheriting parent should send a letter with a brief statement:

DATE

NAME OF EJ REP

Please sell ALL FUNDS/STOCKS and go 100% cash in all of my accounts. I wish to start from a cash basis and need a bit of time to figure out what my plans are. As such, I want everything sold and all cash position. Once this has been accomplished, please mail me statements showing all accounts in cash position and hold for future instructions from me. I do not wish ANY further actions taken whatsoever - no buying/selling by Edward Jones or any of their representatives - until such time as you receive further instruction from me.

Thanks,
NAME


If they refuse or otherwise insist on your parent coming in for a visit before inacting any instructions, print out two copies of this letter after mailing, go ahead and setup a meeting and go in person to have parent hand them a copy in person - confirm they received this in the mail and make note of this very conspicuously during this face to face meeting, maybe even have them sign "letter received, name/date" while you're there, and if the rep tries to talk them into things or anything other than what is in the letter, have parent pull out the copy and read it out loud and ask them what the problem is and why they are pressuring them to do things the are not ready to do right now? Then stand up, say they value their help, but what the need right now is TIME to process the death of their beloved relative and ask them to please do what they are instructed to do per letter confirmed and received, and parent will revisit in a month or so when they are able to think clearly. Then, thank them SO MUCH for their time reminder to please mail the statements after they have done what they were instructed to do in this letter they just confirmed they received. Then leave.

The key is to be sweet as pie to their face, and play the "flustered but hopeful" type to keep THEM on the hook - you want them thinking you're a nice lump of dumb they can play with until you hit them with the "BYE FELICIA" (see below).

I suggest you go online and make sure they do this. And be prepared to escalate because typically EJ reps get nasty when they sense people aren't gullible enough to let them walk all over them and could outright ignore/refuse or even close accounts/remove themselves off the accounts (which is a dick move as the EJ business model means that you have to play phone tag with corporate to get someone assigned to be the face of your account - they won't let anyone self-manage AT ALL).

As soon as you confirm the EJ accounts are cash, then go to either Fidelity or Vanguard. I personally like Fido, but Vanguard is great, and honestly there's others like T Rowe that are likely a great choice as well. Set up matching accounts with whatever is currently in EJ if they don't already have existing ones, so taxable/brokerage at Fido, inherited IRA at Fido, etc if that's the same as what is currently existing at EJ.

You then fill out the transfer forms with FIDO/VANGUARD/TROWE and have THEM pull the money over from the EJ accounts, and once it has been confirmed you've emptied all EJ, short email to confirm all EJ accounts are closed as of X date, thanks so much... BYE Felicia!! Do not respond to ANY phone calls, letters, emails or requests for meetings after you initiate transfers. Let the Fido/Vanguard/TRowe folks deal with their crap.

It may take a few weeks or months. EJ has very poor reputation for being helpful about losing accounts and you will see lots of sell fees, account transfer fees, closing account fees... because they can. You might be able to get the new company to reimburse you for some of the EJ fees, or offer a bonus for transferring over, so don't forget to ask!

« Last Edit: October 29, 2019, 05:52:37 PM by Frankies Girl »

Villanelle

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2019, 05:51:17 PM »
Why meet with them?  In what scenario would it make sense to keep your money with EJ, because I can't think of any.  If you can't either, then don't waste the advisors time, your time, and your parents time, while also subjecting your parents to what could easily be a convincing or confusing sales pitch from this person, which might make them question your advice.

Find out from your parents the details of the accounts.  If they don't know, contact EJ and ask them for the basic info (account balances and types).  Then, decide what you are going to do with the money.  If you can have the new company/firm (e.g. Vanguard) do the transfer, great.  If not, only contact EJ to tell them you are going to be closing the accounts and instruct them on what specifically you want done.  (Note that generally the "you/your" here means your parents, unless maybe they give you a POA to act in their interest on this.  And that could be best i you are afraid they will cave to the hard sell that is almost sure to come if this requires any direct contact with EJ.)

Traveler15

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2019, 06:01:05 PM »
Iím not really following the logic to why youíre going to waste time sitting down with this Edward Jones adviser. If your parents are already on board with your recommendation to move it out of there, I just see the meeting as an opportunity for their sales guy to muddy the waters and confuse your parents.

If it was my parents, Iíd just call Vanguard and ask about the process of moving the money over, what all I needed to know about tax implications, and get it moved ASAP.

If youíre wanting to meet with Edward Jones because you yourself arenít yet convinced itís not the place for your parentsí investments, then let us know because thatís an issue we should address right away!

I agree, but it is a "family friend" (as they always are), so needs dealt with a bit more delicately.

Traveler15

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2019, 06:10:05 PM »
Your parents and you should not meet with the EJ person. At all. Especially do not hint in any way that you will be leaving because they likely will make it horrible for your parents to get free (there are so many shitty things EJ reps have done to make it 10 times harder to get out).

There are no questions whatsoever you should be asking this person. Cancel the meeting and get things figured out to extricate the accounts as quickly as possible. Do not waste your time meeting with them.



Please clarify the following as it directly pertains to the accuracy of my following statements.

1. BOTH parents JUST inherited EJ accounts from their parent/s? Like within the last few months to under 1 year? WHO inherited from WHO and WHEN?
2. What type of accounts? ALL taxable/brokerages, or are there any IRA/401k/403b or other pre-tax/retirement accounts?

This is what I would do under the same circumstances (and will be if/when my MIL passes as all her accounts are at EJ as well).

FIRST: confirm (by phone/email) that accounts were switched over to new/owed accounts by parent that inherited. NEXT, make sure any inherited IRA/401k type accounts had a required minimum distribution taken if your parent was required to take one.

Then the following:

Basing this on the idea that this is concerning a very recent inheritance (under 1 year and hopefully a whole lot less time), then even tho there will be tax generated from the taxable/brokerage accounts when you sell off off funds/stocks/whatever... it is best to sell off EVERYTHING and go 100% cash. Stepped up costs applies on inherited things like this, and what that means is the date of death is the reset for the funds' value. So any loss OR gain is therefore reportable and taxable. If you sell off ASAP after inheriting, then you minimize the damage. This does not matter if any funds are inside any type of IRA or most any pre-tax retirement accounts (selling doesn't create any taxable events, just pulling money out does).



Inheriting parent should send a letter with a brief statement:

DATE

NAME OF EJ REP

Please sell ALL FUNDS/STOCKS and go 100% cash in all of my accounts. I wish to start from a cash basis and need a bit of time to figure out what my plans are. As such, I want everything sold and all cash position. Once this has been accomplished, please mail me statements showing all accounts in cash position and hold for future instructions from me. I do not wish ANY further actions taken whatsoever - no buying/selling by Edward Jones or any of their representatives - until such time as you receive further instruction from me.

Thanks,
NAME


If they refuse or otherwise insist on your parent coming in for a visit before inacting any instructions, print out two copies of this letter after mailing, go ahead and setup a meeting and go in person to have parent hand them a copy in person - confirm they received this in the mail and make note of this very conspicuously during this face to face meeting, maybe even have them sign "letter received, name/date" while you're there, and if the rep tries to talk them into things or anything other than what is in the letter, have parent pull out the copy and read it out loud and ask them what the problem is and why they are pressuring them to do things the are not ready to do right now? Then stand up, say they value their help, but what the need right now is TIME to process the death of their beloved relative and ask them to please do what they are instructed to do per letter confirmed and received, and parent will revisit in a month or so when they are able to think clearly. Then, thank them SO MUCH for their time reminder to please mail the statements after they have done what they were instructed to do in this letter they just confirmed they received. Then leave.

The key is to be sweet as pie to their face, and play the "flustered but hopeful" type to keep THEM on the hook - you want them thinking you're a nice lump of dumb they can play with until you hit them with the "BYE FELICIA" (see below).

I suggest you go online and make sure they do this. And be prepared to escalate because typically EJ reps get nasty when they sense people aren't gullible enough to let them walk all over them and could outright ignore/refuse or even close accounts/remove themselves off the accounts (which is a dick move as the EJ business model means that you have to play phone tag with corporate to get someone assigned to be the face of your account - they won't let anyone self-manage AT ALL).

As soon as you confirm the EJ accounts are cash, then go to either Fidelity or Vanguard. I personally like Fido, but Vanguard is great, and honestly there's others like T Rowe that are likely a great choice as well. Set up matching accounts with whatever is currently in EJ if they don't already have existing ones, so taxable/brokerage at Fido, inherited IRA at Fido, etc if that's the same as what is currently existing at EJ.

You then fill out the transfer forms with FIDO/VANGUARD/TROWE and have THEM pull the money over from the EJ accounts, and once it has been confirmed you've emptied all EJ, short email to confirm all EJ accounts are closed as of X date, thanks so much... BYE Felicia!! Do not respond to ANY phone calls, letters, emails or requests for meetings after you initiate transfers. Let the Fido/Vanguard/TRowe folks deal with their crap.

It may take a few weeks or months. EJ has very poor reputation for being helpful about losing accounts and you will see lots of sell fees, account transfer fees, closing account fees... because they can. You might be able to get the new company to reimburse you for some of the EJ fees, or offer a bonus for transferring over, so don't forget to ask!

Awesome information and thanks so much.  The rep is a "family friend" so the whole ghosting thing will not work (trust me I would love to do that though).  I will definitely be "playing dumb" this first meeting.

To answer your questions...father inherited since both his parents have passed.  This is within the last few weeks, so minimal issues on the tax side.  I believe all of it is taxable, but have not seen details which is part of what this meeting is about.

If the adviser does pull these shenanigans, then that will reinforce to my parents that they did the right thing even more so.

TomTX

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2019, 06:10:14 PM »
Iím not really following the logic to why youíre going to waste time sitting down with this Edward Jones adviser. If your parents are already on board with your recommendation to move it out of there, I just see the meeting as an opportunity for their sales guy to muddy the waters and confuse your parents.

If it was my parents, Iíd just call Vanguard and ask about the process of moving the money over, what all I needed to know about tax implications, and get it moved ASAP.

If youíre wanting to meet with Edward Jones because you yourself arenít yet convinced itís not the place for your parentsí investments, then let us know because thatís an issue we should address right away!

I agree, but it is a "family friend" (as they always are), so needs dealt with a bit more delicately.

I bet your parents are social enough that they don't need to buy friends.

What good is a "friend" who is only friendly when they are getting paid exorbitant fees?

Traveler15

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2019, 06:12:10 PM »
Iím not really following the logic to why youíre going to waste time sitting down with this Edward Jones adviser. If your parents are already on board with your recommendation to move it out of there, I just see the meeting as an opportunity for their sales guy to muddy the waters and confuse your parents.

If it was my parents, Iíd just call Vanguard and ask about the process of moving the money over, what all I needed to know about tax implications, and get it moved ASAP.

If youíre wanting to meet with Edward Jones because you yourself arenít yet convinced itís not the place for your parentsí investments, then let us know because thatís an issue we should address right away!

I agree, but it is a "family friend" (as they always are), so needs dealt with a bit more delicately.

I bet your parents are social enough that they don't need to buy friends.

What good is a "friend" who is only friendly when they are getting paid exorbitant fees?

It will be telling how friendly he is after he is not pulling these fees in.  I am interested to see how this plays out to be honest.

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2019, 08:41:06 AM »
Iím not really following the logic to why youíre going to waste time sitting down with this Edward Jones adviser. If your parents are already on board with your recommendation to move it out of there, I just see the meeting as an opportunity for their sales guy to muddy the waters and confuse your parents.

If it was my parents, Iíd just call Vanguard and ask about the process of moving the money over, what all I needed to know about tax implications, and get it moved ASAP.

If youíre wanting to meet with Edward Jones because you yourself arenít yet convinced itís not the place for your parentsí investments, then let us know because thatís an issue we should address right away!

I agree, but it is a "family friend" (as they always are), so needs dealt with a bit more delicately.

I bet your parents are social enough that they don't need to buy friends.

What good is a "friend" who is only friendly when they are getting paid exorbitant fees?

It will be telling how friendly he is after he is not pulling these fees in.  I am interested to see how this plays out to be honest.

I am also concerned about meeting with the EJ rep especially now that we've found out they are a family friend. How confident are you that your parents will listen to you and not be persuaded by whatever BS the "friend" comes up with? If they were truly a friend then they would be acting in your parents best interest (i.e. as a fiduciary) and wouldn't accept them as a client at EJ...

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2019, 09:08:07 AM »
This is a business transaction; you need to treat it as such. Nothing more, nothing less.
I expect you will gain little by going to this meeting.  The meeting is a sales pitch, plain and simple.

I can't envision a scenario where you would be financially better off with EJ than with Vanguard, Fidelity or any other number of low-fee brokerages.

You do not need to justify leaving
You do not need to give EJ a reason. 
You should not feel guilty for doing what is financially best for you and your parents
Your 'family friend' should not take it personally that you have transferred the assets elsewhere (though s/he might)

I would contact Vanguard and have THEM initiate the transfer of assets. They will draft all the paperwork for you to sign and send it to EJ.  I've heard of enough dickish things EJ brokers have done to try to retain clients, so be clear, be firm, and do it in writing.


JAYSLOL

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #11 on: October 30, 2019, 09:09:53 AM »
Iím not really following the logic to why youíre going to waste time sitting down with this Edward Jones adviser. If your parents are already on board with your recommendation to move it out of there, I just see the meeting as an opportunity for their sales guy to muddy the waters and confuse your parents.

If it was my parents, Iíd just call Vanguard and ask about the process of moving the money over, what all I needed to know about tax implications, and get it moved ASAP.

If youíre wanting to meet with Edward Jones because you yourself arenít yet convinced itís not the place for your parentsí investments, then let us know because thatís an issue we should address right away!

I agree, but it is a "family friend" (as they always are), so needs dealt with a bit more delicately.

I bet your parents are social enough that they don't need to buy friends.

What good is a "friend" who is only friendly when they are getting paid exorbitant fees?

It will be telling how friendly he is after he is not pulling these fees in.  I am interested to see how this plays out to be honest.

Sorry, but you already know he wonít be a family friend after you pull the funds, and you also know itís not worth the fees to leave them there.  So, is the meeting just to help convince your parents that pulling them is the right move?  Do your parents have a tendency to make decisions on logic or emotions?  Because unless they heavily favour logic in decision making, the meeting is likely to make it harder to get out of EJ.  If it were me, and no parents were involved, I would probably do the meeting out of morbid curiosity right before I ripped those funds outta there ASAP, but if I had to bring my parents into the mix, nah, too much risk of things going sideways. 

BicycleB

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2019, 12:36:42 PM »
Inherited Edward Jones accounts myself. I concur with moving. I think all the questions suggested are good.

In my experience, there will be fees involved and yes your parents will benefit financially from moving. Sooner is better because some fees will probably be ongoing (funds have management fees; also the grandparents may or may not have been paying some advisory fees). If you move promptly, according to the detailed description already posted, the fees should cease after the transfer is complete.

The "family friend" thing is an interesting wrinkle that I didn't experience. Best of luck there. A true friend will remain friendly afterwards. In practice it might be simpler he/she they stayed away. Stand firm is my advice. If you can retain your parents' trust, act on it and stand your ground. Behave in a confident manner, complete the transactions, and Mom and Dad will forget about the details soon enough. IMHO this will also instill confidence for any future situations when they might need to rely on you... a good thing, since you are (I assume) trustworthy.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2019, 12:39:53 PM by BicycleB »

Villanelle

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #13 on: October 30, 2019, 12:43:37 PM »
If it's a family friend, then that's all the more reason not to waste his time.  That's how I'd pitch it to the parents if they needed convincing.  The right thing to do is to move the accounts, so that's what they need to do.  And if they take up his time when they already know they will leave, then they are eating up time he could use to generate new business or service existing customers.  "It just wouldn't be thoughtful or fair to good ol' Bob to use his time when we have no intention at all of retaining his services."

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #14 on: October 30, 2019, 01:14:09 PM »
I am married to a woman who really likes her EJ advisor. It is her (inherited) money, so I do not feel as though I have a lot of latitude, apart from minimizing the new resources that go towards that account.

At a minimum, direct that all dividends and capital gains distributions be made in cash. You'll want to get this done soon, as December is typically the month these happen. Figuring out how to stop adding to the bucket is step #1.

Proud Foot

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #15 on: October 30, 2019, 01:41:45 PM »
At a minimum, direct that all dividends and capital gains distributions be made in cash. You'll want to get this done soon, as December is typically the month these happen. Figuring out how to stop adding to the bucket is step #1.

Definitely do this! It costs you money to reinvest your stock dividends. If you want to see how much EJ will cost you just check out their Fee Schedules

markbike528CBX

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Re: Help - Inheritance & Edward Jones
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 03:17:18 AM »

Definitely do this! It costs you money to reinvest your stock dividends. If you want to see how much EJ will cost you just check out their Fee Schedules

Holy crap! The fee schedule and how EJ makes money page are actually pretty clear for most Mustachians.
Of course, normal customers would neither read nor understand all the verbiage.

Nice link @Proud Foot !