Author Topic: Elon musk and Jeff Bezos sold their stocks before 2022 stock market crash  (Read 2985 times)

michaelbsf

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I have read that both Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos both sold out their stock positions right before the stock crashed about 8 months ago. I am curious how did they know that it was time to sell?

Is there any way to track their buys and sells to follow their decisions in the future?

bacchi

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Not in real-time. They have to file with the SEC, for certain positions, but it's delayed.

wageslave23

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Elon says that a recession is imminent so if you think he is a good stock market prognosticators, you better sell.

Niceday

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Mush and Bezos continue to own a huge chunk of tesla and amazon respectively. People sell stocks for various reasons. Musk had company-granted options expiring in Jan 2022 if I remember correctly and so he had to sell some. If Bezos had indeed sold some, it might have to do with the new taxes becoming effective in 2022 in the state of Washington(additional 7% tax on any capital gains over $400,000), or just simple diversification.

MustacheAndaHalf

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I have read that both Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos both sold out their stock positions right before the stock crashed about 8 months ago. I am curious how did they know that it was time to sell?
If someone sells every year, does that mean they predict every crash?

I assume you mean Bezos selling $3 billion last November, which is somewhere near 2% of his NW.  This is not his entire stock position - more like pocket change.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/04/bezos-sells-more-than-3-billion-worth-of-amazon-shares-.html

And he sold $4 billion in Feb, after the Jan drop.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/02/11/jeff-bezos-sold-4point1-billion-worth-of-amazon-shares-in-past-week.html

And then another $2 billion a couple months ago.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/05/amazon-ceo-bezos-sells-nearly-2-billion-worth-of-amazon-shares.html

If you look at only the sale two months ago, I guess you'd say Mr Bezos is terrible at timing the market, since he sold after such a large drop in AMZN stock price.  But the sale was planned well in advance, because he has to file stock sales well in advance so everyone knows about them.

pasadenafr

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I have read that both Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos both sold out their stock positions right before the stock crashed about 8 months ago. I am curious how did they know that it was time to sell?

They knew because... it was time to sell... for their specific situation.

First, the did NOT sell out their stock positions. They sold some.

Musk had Tesla options expiring, he had to sell. I think he also has a specific plan where he must sell some of his stock. Then he had to raise some cash to pay his taxes. Oh, and maybe he was planning on buying a well-known social media platform and needed the cash.

I believe Bezos did what a lot of others did in WA State - sold a lot of stock before EOY to avoid the new CG tax effective in 2022. Nadella did the same.

In other words, they didn't sell "because they knew something". They sold because their specific circumstances called for it. Now maybe they also thought the market was particularly high and took some profits off the top, but you don't need anyone to tell you to do that.

Then there's the fact that they must file those transactions with the SEC.

It's often a mistake to try and replicate what billionaire people do, because they have vastly different circumstances than you do, and you don't know half of those circumstances. Appearances can be misleading.

These guys don't just buy and sell on a whim or a gut check (well, maybe Musk does lol). They have plans, and they implement those when specific triggers are reached. That's what we should all do.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2022, 07:44:32 AM by pasadenafr »

vand

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On a slightly cynical note.. they know their companies inside out... and thy probably know when its ridiculously overvalued

ChpBstrd

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Elon says that a recession is imminent so if you think he is a good stock market prognosticators, you better sell.
This is the same prognosticator who offered $54.20/share for Twitter, only to be hit with immediate regret when his market timing turned out to be terrible.

vand

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Don't read too much into it.
People sell for all sorts of reasons, even the single-stock billionaires.

Isn't it funny how during the pandemic as the big techs rallied, people were outraged that they tech billionaires had increased their wealth while main street was on the ropes? And yet we don't see any of the stories of how Zuckerberg's or Bezos' wealth has declined precipitously over the last year? Just a reminder that the press, even the financial press, like to report on what people can relate to, which is only one very narrow version of the real facts.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/american-billionaires-got-434-billion-richer-during-the-pandemic.html

Boll weevil

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Several years ago, I read Bezos was selling in excess of a billion dollars a year of stock to fund his space company Blue Origin. I wouldn’t be too surprised if it’s up to 1.5 or 2 by now.

wageslave23

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Don't read too much into it.
People sell for all sorts of reasons, even the single-stock billionaires.

Isn't it funny how during the pandemic as the big techs rallied, people were outraged that they tech billionaires had increased their wealth while main street was on the ropes? And yet we don't see any of the stories of how Zuckerberg's or Bezos' wealth has declined precipitously over the last year? Just a reminder that the press, even the financial press, like to report on what people can relate to, which is only one very narrow version of the real facts.
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/21/american-billionaires-got-434-billion-richer-during-the-pandemic.html

I had been thinking the same thing.  Press needs to be consistent and report the facts instead of cherry picking an agenda. 

HPstache

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...

MDM

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Press needs to be consistent and report the facts instead of cherry picking an agenda.
Sure would be nice. ;)

But the press, whether Breitbart or the NY Times, exists to make money for itself so whatever brings more subscription and/or advertising revenue....

Crease

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These may be scheduled sell-offs. CEOs often get paid in stock with lock-up provisions that require them to hold the stock for a period before they can be converted to cash. I don’t doubt Jeff and Elon are well-versed in economics, but I wouldn’t automatically attribute these sales to market timing.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...
They sold a few billion once, while the Fed has begun selling billions in bonds every day.  It's not even close, which you can see from matching market drops to Fed news.  In response to inflation, the Fed has raised the Fed funds rate, which went through the bond market and reached mortgages.  Musk and Bezos are mice running around, but don't ignore the elephant in the room: the Federal Reserve.

HPstache

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...
They sold a few billion once, while the Fed has begun selling billions in bonds every day.  It's not even close, which you can see from matching market drops to Fed news.  In response to inflation, the Fed has raised the Fed funds rate, which went through the bond market and reached mortgages.  Musk and Bezos are mice running around, but don't ignore the elephant in the room: the Federal Reserve.

Musk tweeted  that Doge was "pretty cool" and that crypto absolutely up over the next few days.  Don't underestimate how what these guys say/do can change market sentiment more than the dollar value of their transactions.

Metalcat

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...
They sold a few billion once, while the Fed has begun selling billions in bonds every day.  It's not even close, which you can see from matching market drops to Fed news.  In response to inflation, the Fed has raised the Fed funds rate, which went through the bond market and reached mortgages.  Musk and Bezos are mice running around, but don't ignore the elephant in the room: the Federal Reserve.

Musk tweeted  that Doge was "pretty cool" and that crypto absolutely up over the next few days.  Don't underestimate how what these guys say/do can change market sentiment more than the dollar value of their transactions.

What in earth does that have to do with how we should invest in the markets??

I'm not seeing the connection.

HPstache

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...
They sold a few billion once, while the Fed has begun selling billions in bonds every day.  It's not even close, which you can see from matching market drops to Fed news.  In response to inflation, the Fed has raised the Fed funds rate, which went through the bond market and reached mortgages.  Musk and Bezos are mice running around, but don't ignore the elephant in the room: the Federal Reserve.

Musk tweeted  that Doge was "pretty cool" and that crypto absolutely up over the next few days.  Don't underestimate how what these guys say/do can change market sentiment more than the dollar value of their transactions.

What in earth does that have to do with how we should invest in the markets??

I'm not seeing the connection.

I'm just saying that some people (not necessarily "we") take cues from what Musk & Bezos do in the market as predictions of things to come.  If the sheeple see these guys taking huge chunks out of the market, it may, in part help their moves to become self fulfilling prophecies about what the market will do as a whole.  Just like Musk, on a micro scale, can tweet about some crypto being a good investment  and lo and behold it becomes a good investment the following days.

Metalcat

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...
They sold a few billion once, while the Fed has begun selling billions in bonds every day.  It's not even close, which you can see from matching market drops to Fed news.  In response to inflation, the Fed has raised the Fed funds rate, which went through the bond market and reached mortgages.  Musk and Bezos are mice running around, but don't ignore the elephant in the room: the Federal Reserve.

Musk tweeted  that Doge was "pretty cool" and that crypto absolutely up over the next few days.  Don't underestimate how what these guys say/do can change market sentiment more than the dollar value of their transactions.

What in earth does that have to do with how we should invest in the markets??

I'm not seeing the connection.

I'm just saying that some people (not necessarily "we") take cues from what Musk & Bezos do in the market as predictions of things to come.  If the sheeple see these guys taking huge chunks out of the market, it may, in part help their moves to become self fulfilling prophecies about what the market will do as a whole.  Just like Musk, on a micro scale, can tweet about some crypto being a good investment  and lo and behold it becomes a good investment the following days.

I'm still not getting how this relates to us as investors.

By the time we can even react to what's publicly known about these peoples moves, the markets will have already reacted and baked in that info.

Sure, you might catch an upswing or a downswing before it's done, but do you think someone can really predictably react to publicly known behaviours and statements of individuals and then figure out how to capitalize on them *consistently* in a way that would outperform buy and hold?

I'm not being facetious, I'm legitimately asking if you think there's a way to do so?

Here's another example. I have access, thanks to my spouse, to a lot of confidential information about the governments energy strategy. This isn't even public information, so I'm not competing with everyone on the planet in real time.

Still, if I wanted to exploit this info, it would be incredibly difficult because the industries involved already bake a lot of this info into their prices, and I'm nowhere near enough of an expert to understand how certain initiatives and announcements might affect the markets with enough precision to be able to effectively time anything.

My point is, even if you have really good information, it's not necessarily enough to outmaneuver the market.

For every "I should have bought Doge" there's a "well that didn't turn out how I expected." All based on salient information.

I'm in no way arguing that the behaviours of billionaires don't move markets, they absolutely do. But often even those billionaires themselves aren't amazing at capturing those moves in terms of profiting off of them.

So I still don't understand how I'm supposed to translate the fact that Besos and Musk impact the market into a predictable investment strategy that nets me more than index funds over time.

People who do this crap professionally have a hard time doing that, and often with much better info than we have access to.

MustacheAndaHalf

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Maybe their sales of stock caused it, in part...
They sold a few billion once, while the Fed has begun selling billions in bonds every day.  It's not even close, which you can see from matching market drops to Fed news.  In response to inflation, the Fed has raised the Fed funds rate, which went through the bond market and reached mortgages.  Musk and Bezos are mice running around, but don't ignore the elephant in the room: the Federal Reserve.
Musk tweeted  that Doge was "pretty cool" and that crypto absolutely up over the next few days.  Don't underestimate how what these guys say/do can change market sentiment more than the dollar value of their transactions.
Musk said that back in April 2019, over 3 years ago.  At the start of 2019, the trading volume of DOGE was under $41,000 a day.  Musk's comment caused a huge spike in DOGE trading volume on April 4 2019, to just under $520,000.  And the next day, trading volume fell to under $120,000.  I'm not impressed that he drove $400k to $500k of DOGE buying.  He could have spent $10 million personally and moved the DOGE trading volume far more.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/DOGE-USD/history

And my point was the Federal Reserve is far more powerful than that.  When you look at any mortgage rate, why is the price so high?  Because the Federal Reserve decided to raise rates that high.  We're talking orders of magnitude more power than moving less than million worth of a crypto currency.

svosavvy

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This conversation is making me think of the movie "Trading Places". Might have to watch it again sometime.  That, and short the frozen concentrated orange juice futures. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!