The Money Mustache Community
Learning, Sharing, and Teaching => Investor Alley => Topic started by: Case on September 13, 2016, 08:37:14 AM
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I'm wondering if anyone has recently (2016) done the research at what is the most cost effects HSA provider that allows you to invest in a low cost stock index fund. A few years ago I went with HSA administrators vs HSA bank; I'm revisitng the choice now as I think about potentially switching. I have gone to their websites and started to re-read all of the fee info.... but maybe one of you already has a clearly understanding?
My recollection is that HSA Administrators has a $45 fee; additionally they charge $0.625 per $1000 invested, 4 times per year; that ends up adding 0.25% to your effective expense ratio. The nice perk of HSA Admins though is that you get straightforward access to Vanguard index funds with minimal monkey work and no additional fees.
Meanwhile, HSABank has an annual fee of $30, unless you keep $5000-ish of your funds in the regular HSA account (e.g. not invested in index funds). Then you invest your money via TD Ameritrade and are effectively able to invest in Vanguard (or similar) funds. I haven't figured out how the trading fees for this option work.
Currently I have ~20k invested, and am maxing out every year.
It appears that HSA Bank is the less expensive option. However, I haven't figured out all of the monkey work to make HSA bank work (what funds are available via TDAmeritrade; fees)...
Has anyone figured this out?
Other better HSA providers out there?
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Meanwhile, HSABank has an annual fee of $30, unless you keep $5000-ish of your funds in the regular HSA account (e.g. not invested in index funds). Then you invest your money via TD Ameritrade and are effectively able to invest in Vanguard (or similar) funds. I haven't figured out how the trading fees for this option work.
As far as I can tell: the trading fees are $0 if you sign up for commission free ETFs.
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Meanwhile, HSABank has an annual fee of $30, unless you keep $5000-ish of your funds in the regular HSA account (e.g. not invested in index funds). Then you invest your money via TD Ameritrade and are effectively able to invest in Vanguard (or similar) funds. I haven't figured out how the trading fees for this option work.
As far as I can tell: the trading fees are $0 if you sign up for commission free ETFs.
This is what I do. Just make sure you sign up for the commission free ETFs before you buy anything otherwise they will charge you for a trade.
My company covers the annual fees from HSAbank so I end up paying $0 to invest in ETFs (everything is in VTI) and no transaction fees.
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Here is the list of TDameritrade commission free ETFs. It includes 32 Vanguard ETFs.
https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/public/etfs/commissionfree/commissionfree.asp?fromSectionLeftNav=true
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Meanwhile, HSABank has an annual fee of $30, unless you keep $5000-ish of your funds in the regular HSA account (e.g. not invested in index funds). Then you invest your money via TD Ameritrade and are effectively able to invest in Vanguard (or similar) funds. I haven't figured out how the trading fees for this option work.
As far as I can tell: the trading fees are $0 if you sign up for commission free ETFs.
This is what I do. Just make sure you sign up for the commission free ETFs before you buy anything otherwise they will charge you for a trade.
My company covers the annual fees from HSAbank so I end up paying $0 to invest in ETFs (everything is in VTI) and no transaction fees.
Excellent, thank you all. It looks like HSA Bank is the frugal way to go.
Has working with the bank been ok? In my experience, HSA Administrators have been pretty good to work with. In contrast, my default workplace custodian, HealthyEquity, is absolutely terrible and I have gotten into multiple arguments with me due to them charging unnecessary fees and them incorrectly reading forms.
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Meanwhile, HSABank has an annual fee of $30, unless you keep $5000-ish of your funds in the regular HSA account (e.g. not invested in index funds). Then you invest your money via TD Ameritrade and are effectively able to invest in Vanguard (or similar) funds. I haven't figured out how the trading fees for this option work.
As far as I can tell: the trading fees are $0 if you sign up for commission free ETFs.
This is what I do. Just make sure you sign up for the commission free ETFs before you buy anything otherwise they will charge you for a trade.
My company covers the annual fees from HSAbank so I end up paying $0 to invest in ETFs (everything is in VTI) and no transaction fees.
Excellent, thank you all. It looks like HSA Bank is the frugal way to go.
Has working with the bank been ok? In my experience, HSA Administrators have been pretty good to work with. In contrast, my default workplace custodian, HealthyEquity, is absolutely terrible and I have gotten into multiple arguments with me due to them charging unnecessary fees and them incorrectly reading forms.
Huge caveat here:
* I have only had my HSA since the beginning of this year
* I do not withdraw funds and have no real intention of withdrawing funds. I keep track of every expense using their online tools and quietly leave the money alone
With that out of the way: I think they're fine. I am really using them as a bit of an IRA. It gives us a $6k income reduction and allows us to invest the money. Some day when we need it for something, we'll withdraw our incurred expenses tax free.
I did have to talk to them on the phone once... and it was a bit of a pain. This may be an anomaly. When I called it did say something to the effect of "we are experiencing large call volume because XXX company just switched their plan over to us." I believe it took me almost an hour on hold to get through. Once I talked to them, they were helpful and my issue was resolved.
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I just got an HSA at work and did some quick research. I came to that HSAbank is the best. All others have higher fees and/or worse funds. There should be no fees for commision free Vanguard ETFs through TD. At least that was my impression. My employer use a crappy local bank which charge $25/year, then I transfer and have to pay HSAbank $36. But they give me $1200 to the account so can't really complain.
This is old, but from the ones I checked more or less correct except some slight changes in amounts.
http://whitecoatinvestor.com/choosing-an-hsa-provider/
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Question from a total noob here: My employer doesn't offer an HSA. Can I set up one on my own?
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Question from a total noob here: My employer doesn't offer an HSA. Can I set up one on my own?
You can *IF* you have an HSA compatible health insurance plan.
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I saw someone else on here recommend Wells Fargo's HSA. You can supposedly invest the full amount in a 0.25% S&P 500 fund and there are no monthly/annual account fees. Might be worth a look.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade account ($30 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
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HSA admin was extremely easy and you can invest in VTSAX without $10k. I use it as my "investment" HSA and I pay medical expenses out of my HSA account my employer set up.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade account ($30 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
I came across some articles indicating that that HSA provider, which formerly was the best, now charges an additional fee which makes them not the best.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade brokerage account ($25 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
I came across some articles indicating that that HSA provider, which formerly was the best, now charges an additional fee which makes them not the best.
Well, in 2014 they finally added a fee to accounts with less than $2500 in the standard HSA. Which is what I referred to above. If there is another fee, I'm not aware of it and haven't been billed for it.
I transfer money from my employer's HSA once a year to my Elements HSA. I then transfer everything, except 2500, to my TD Ameritrade brokerage account for a $25 fee and get free Vanguard ETFs. So I pay $25/year total for this. I haven't seen anything here that's better.
Based on the OP, I guess HSA bank could be fee-free, but I'm not willing to keep 5K in a regular savings account to save $30 when I can keep to 2500.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade brokerage account ($25 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
I came across some articles indicating that that HSA provider, which formerly was the best, now charges an additional fee which makes them not the best.
Well, in 2014 they finally added a fee to accounts with less than $2500 in the standard HSA. Which is what I referred to above. If there is another fee, I'm not aware of it and haven't been billed for it.
I transfer money from my employer's HSA once a year to my Elements HSA. I then transfer everything, except 2500, to my TD Ameritrade brokerage account for a $25 fee and get free Vanguard ETFs. So I pay $25/year total for this. I haven't seen anything here that's better.
Based on the OP, I guess HSA bank could be fee-free, but I'm not willing to keep 5K in a regular savings account to save $30 when I can keep to 2500.
The alternative:
* Don't keep $5k in the account. Pay the 30
* Invest the $5k in VTI
* Plan on 7% returns on $5k of $350
* profit
Or do the same with the $2500 in the Elements HSA. I am not really promoting one in particular. I just mean that when you look at the big picture, the fee isn't so terrible.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade brokerage account ($25 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
I came across some articles indicating that that HSA provider, which formerly was the best, now charges an additional fee which makes them not the best.
Well, in 2014 they finally added a fee to accounts with less than $2500 in the standard HSA. Which is what I referred to above. If there is another fee, I'm not aware of it and haven't been billed for it.
I transfer money from my employer's HSA once a year to my Elements HSA. I then transfer everything, except 2500, to my TD Ameritrade brokerage account for a $25 fee and get free Vanguard ETFs. So I pay $25/year total for this. I haven't seen anything here that's better.
Based on the OP, I guess HSA bank could be fee-free, but I'm not willing to keep 5K in a regular savings account to save $30 when I can keep to 2500.
The alternative:
* Don't keep $5k in the account. Pay the 30
* Invest the $5k in VTI
* Plan on 7% returns on $5k of $350
* profit
Or do the same with the $2500 in the Elements HSA. I am not really promoting one in particular. I just mean that when you look at the big picture, the fee isn't so terrible.
Right, I of course might be better off investing the 2500, but less so, and I actually prefer to keep 2500 in the HSA as a medical emergency fund.
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I'm contemplating a switch and like Spork's perspective on this. For example:
The tricky case for me is Health Equity. Investing in the limited Vanguard choices incurs an "additional 0.033% fee per month" because it's a low cost fund. So Vanguard funds cost me +0.40% expense ratio at Health Equity, and that's a real drag compared to investing the same money elsewhere. So I need to switch.
HSA Bank's schedule of fees states "$3 / mo ... investment fee" ($36/yr) unless the minimum balance requirement of $5,000 is met. So let's compare the two choices for $5,000:
Keep it in cash, earning 0.20% but paying no fee. End of year you have $5,010.
Keep in equities, costing $36/yr but maybe earning +7% (avg 10 yr U.S. stocks), or $5,314.
Some years stocks will lose money - and so will the account. But on average stocks will earn more than 1% and easily beat the forced asset allocation to cash. So I would actually pick plans based on one that allows me to keep the entire account in equities, which sounds like HSA Bank.
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I use my HSA as a retirement vehicle. I did lots of research on this, and ended up at Saturna (http://www.saturna.com/individual/hsa/). It was the cheapest option I could find that offered index funds, and didn't require any money sitting in cash before I could invest, which has it's own opportunity cost which is it's own fee. This thread (https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135513&start=50) was particularly useful. Here's the TL:DR. Make your investment once a year, and all you'll have to pay is the "cost per trade" (once a year), and any dividend reinvestment fees (probably 4 times a year).
Vanguard Mutual Funds
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Cost per trade: $24.95
Admiral Shares: Yes (*without* meeting the minimum 10k requirement).
Dividend re-invest: no charge
Inactivity fee (no trade within calendar year): $12.50
Fidelity Mutual Funds
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Cost per trade: $14.95
Admiral Shares: Yes* (but *will* need to meet 10k requirement). The new website will give you an error right away if the order doesn't meet the fund's minimum.
Dividend re-invest: no charge
Inactivity fee (no trade within calendar year): $12.50
ETF (Vanguard & Fidelity)
=========================
Cost per trade: $14.95
Dividend re-invest: $1
Inactivity fee (no trade within calendar year): $25
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I'm contemplating a switch and like Spork's perspective on this. For example:
The tricky case for me is Health Equity. Investing in the limited Vanguard choices incurs an "additional 0.033% fee per month" because it's a low cost fund. So Vanguard funds cost me +0.40% expense ratio at Health Equity, and that's a real drag compared to investing the same money elsewhere. So I need to switch.
HSA Bank's schedule of fees states "$3 / mo ... investment fee" ($36/yr) unless the minimum balance requirement of $5,000 is met. So let's compare the two choices for $5,000:
Keep it in cash, earning 0.20% but paying no fee. End of year you have $5,010.
Keep in equities, costing $36/yr but maybe earning +7% (avg 10 yr U.S. stocks), or $5,314.
Some years stocks will lose money - and so will the account. But on average stocks will earn more than 1% and easily beat the forced asset allocation to cash. So I would actually pick plans based on one that allows me to keep the entire account in equities, which sounds like HSA Bank.
HSA Bank Fee is a bit more than that. It's $3/month investment fee if <5K, but also a $2.5/month low balance fee. So total is $5.5/month or $66/year.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade account ($30 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
Interested, but I could not for the life of me find anything on their website stating what the fees are. If they're going to bury it that badly I don't want to deal with them.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade account ($30 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
Interested, but I could not for the life of me find anything on their website stating what the fees are. If they're going to bury it that badly I don't want to deal with them.
The fee sheet was the first thing that came up when I googled 'Elements financial HSA fees'. I've also had excellent customer service with them.
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Have you look at the Elements HSA? Looks similar to HSAbank except you only have to keep 2500 in regular HSA to avoid the fee and there is a transfer fee to the TD Ameritrade account ($30 I think), so I only transfer once a year. Free Vanguard ETFs.
Interested, but I could not for the life of me find anything on their website stating what the fees are. If they're going to bury it that badly I don't want to deal with them.
The fee sheet was the first thing that came up when I googled 'Elements financial HSA fees'. I've also had excellent customer service with them.
silly me, I went to the HSA section of their website..
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HSA Bank's schedule of fees states "$3 / mo ... investment fee" ($36/yr) unless the minimum balance requirement of $5,000 is met.
HSA Bank Fee is a bit more than that. It's $3/month investment fee if <5K, but also a $2.5/month low balance fee. So total is $5.5/month or $66/year.
Let's say someone has two years of HSA contributions, about $6500. If they switch all of it into investments, do they still pay the low balance fee ($2.50/mo) when they have over $5,000 at HSA Bank? If all $6500 goes to investments, are you saying it would be $66/year?
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HSA Bank's schedule of fees states "$3 / mo ... investment fee" ($36/yr) unless the minimum balance requirement of $5,000 is met.
HSA Bank Fee is a bit more than that. It's $3/month investment fee if <5K, but also a $2.5/month low balance fee. So total is $5.5/month or $66/year.
Let's say someone has two years of HSA contributions, about $6500. If they switch all of it into investments, do they still pay the low balance fee ($2.50/mo) when they have over $5,000 at HSA Bank? If all $6500 goes to investments, are you saying it would be $66/year?
My interpretation is yes. If you have $6500, transfer it all to investments you'd pay $66 p.a. Or you could transfer $1500 to investment, keep $5k in cash, and you'd pay $36 p.a.
http://hsabank.com/~/media/files/cdh/fees/fees_standard_2_50
Of course if you expect to get more than 0.7% return you're better off investing it all..
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HSA Bank's schedule of fees states "$3 / mo ... investment fee" ($36/yr) unless the minimum balance requirement of $5,000 is met.
HSA Bank Fee is a bit more than that. It's $3/month investment fee if <5K, but also a $2.5/month low balance fee. So total is $5.5/month or $66/year.
Let's say someone has two years of HSA contributions, about $6500. If they switch all of it into investments, do they still pay the low balance fee ($2.50/mo) when they have over $5,000 at HSA Bank? If all $6500 goes to investments, are you saying it would be $66/year?
Of course if you expect to get more than 0.7% return you're better off investing it all..
Sorry I'll make it more clear. I've had HSA Bank for like 4 years now. They keep raising their minimum every year. For 2016, the minimum is $5K. The minimum is what is in HSA Bank, and not what has been transferred to TD Ameritrade to invest.
If your HSA Bank has $5K (or whatever the new minimum is) or above (with the rest in TD Ameritrade) then there are NO FEES. TD Ameritrade has trading fees of $9.99 per trade, but as others have said, they have a good selection of commission free ETF's.
If your HSA Bank has even $1 below the minimum, then you will get hit with 2 monthly fees totaling $5.50/month. I believe they calculate the minimum based on average daily balance.
So the analysis is for $66/year, is it worth it to take the fee hit and invest the $5000? Well assume you keep $70 in the HSA Bank side to pay the fees, that means you invest $4930. So the fees are approximately 1.34% of the $4930.
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If you get more than a 1.44% return then yes it's worth it. (accounting for their 0.1% interest.) Of course can't guarantee that you will in the stock market, but since the dividend yield now is above 2% I'd consider it pretty likely on a longer time frame.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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I have been with HSABank for many years and investing with them for 3. Their fees may not be the absolute cheapest but have always had great experiences with their customer support and their website. For example, for a while I had to manually schedule a transfer from HSAbank to tdameritrade every paycheck, which was easy but took time. Now, you can schedule it to be automatic. I also like their expense management where you can upload unreimbursed receipts to have an electronic copy.
Other providers may offer the same services but wanted to point out other capabilities and benefits.
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Thanks to several people who confirmed HSA Bank charges $66/year for 100% invested HSA account.
HSA bank requires $500 cash reserve, which prevents roughly $40/year of growth (8% per Total Stock Market 10-year performance). When you compare the remaining monthly fees, the break even point is about two years of contributions ($66 vs $40 + $26, where $26 represents $6500 x 0.40% fee on invested assets). So it looks like anyone well above about $7000 in their HSA could benefit by switching from Health Equity to HSA Bank.
I hope Saturna gets more competition. Their fee structure penalizes people who buy Vanguard funds, and who buy multiple funds. Their list of fees and incentives is rather long. They could ruin the situation by adding one, or by me missing some fee in their list.
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I saw someone else on here recommend Wells Fargo's HSA. You can supposedly invest the full amount in a 0.25% S&P 500 fund and there are no monthly/annual account fees. Might be worth a look.
There was always a $2,000 requirement in cash, but the rest could be invested with no fees. Wells Fargo sold their HSA business to Optum. Optum has the same $2,000 minimum and the rest can be invested in an even better selection of mutual funds including a dozen or so admiral class funds from Vanguard with no fees. I think this makes Optum sound better than many options people discussed in the thread. My employer used Wells Fargo and the switch to Optum is in progress so I can't give more impressions yet.
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Optum seems a bit cagey about stating their fees. Even when I found the right page, they wouldn't state them:
"Monthly Maintenance Fee
Refer to your Employer Open Enrollment materials, Optum Bank HSA Welcome Kit or log in to your account to view the fee schedule associated with your HSA for specifics under View Your Account Details on the HSA Dashboard"
https://www.optumbank.com/customer-support/hsa-resources/fees.html
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Yes I was trying to find the fees page for Optum. It's a good sign that they don't charge a wire transfer fee like Elements HSA does when transferring money to the TD Ameritrade brokerage.
But it's unfortunate that Optum does charge $20 to rollover HSA to another institution.
And of course the unknown is what the monthly fees would be, if any.
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I'm at Optum and they have a monthly $1.50 fee (at my company anyway).
I'm currently investing 100% in VASGX...felt like the right choice instead of VTSAX, in case I need to sell in a downturn. Are others still mostly investing in VTSAX or equivalents for their HSA?
Investment options are good though with no trading fees. http://www-elr.optum.com/content/dam/optum/consumer-activation/A13534/43505-hsa-investment-flyer.pdf
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index VTSAX Large-Cap Blend
Vanguard Extended Market Index VEXAX Mid-Cap Growth
Vanguard Equity-Income Inv VEIRX Large-Cap Value
Vanguard REIT Index VGSLX Alternative
Vanguard Health Care VGHAX Alternative
Vanguard Mid Cap Index Inv VIMAX Mid-cap Blend
Vanguard Small Cap Index Inv VSMAX Small-Cap Blend
Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth VSMGX Allocation
Vanguard LifeStrategy Conservative Growth VSCGX Allocation
Vanguard LifeStrategy Growth VASGX Allocation
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Ok so with Elements you get 0.5% interest on the first $2500 that's required to sit in the checking account, but they also charge $24 to transfer money to the TD Ameritrade broker.
The Elements fees seem equivalent to Optum: if you take into account the $1.50 monthly charge combined with the $2000 sitting in cash at no interest.
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Optum officially completed the HSA purchase from Wells Fargo today. I notice that I only have access to Wells Fargo mutual funds, still. Wells Fargo S&P500 index and Dreyfus S&P600 index aren't too bad, but I was really looking forward to Vanguard funds with much lower ER's. Anyone had this experience?
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For Elements HSA they do not allow you to pay the fees using an external account or write a check. I read you could with some other HSA providers. Has anyone else experienced differently?
Also has anyone used Saturna and if so, can you confirm if you can write a check to fund the transfer fees?
Currently have $4,300.00 with Elements (won't be adding more since FIRE'd) but debating moving the account to another provider because Elements requires you to have $2,500 each month in their account, and they do not permit external funding for transfer fee. So unless you have a lot more HSA funds to work with to invest, it might not be worth it. Thoughts?
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I don't know the answer to that question. I know that I transferred my Elements HSA over to Saturna because I didn't like Elements requirement of having $2500 earning 0.5%
I seem to recall with SAturna that I had to use a portion of the funds to pay the fee to buy the Index fund. Not sure if they allow an external payment for that fee.
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I use Elements and I don't mind having $2500 in an HSA because I don't want to be 100% invested. I see the $2500 as my emergency medical fund.
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For investing 100% once a year, Saturna is currently still the best at $15/trade for swab/fidelity funds ($25 for vanguard), or $12.50/year with no trading.
HSA bank, HSA administrators, and Elements are all pretty good for investing too.
HealthEquity is terrible.
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Has anyone been able to pay the HSA fees using an external account, eg check? Please share details which provider. Thanks!!
For those of you who do seek to invest 100% of HSA funds and you have a balance under 5k, which company do you use and why? Thanks!!
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I only have personal experience with HealthEquity, and they do not allow outside funds to pay for any fees unless paid for by the plan sponsor (your company).
I've read that HSA bank used to, but stopped allowing it, but I would confirm that before a depending on it.
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ok thanks! anyone else have any positive success paying the HSA fees using and external account? unable to do so for elements hsa and do not want to leave $2,500 in the money market account when only have $4,300 total and cannot contribute more.
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I use my HSA as a retirement vehicle. I did lots of research on this, and ended up at Saturna (http://www.saturna.com/individual/hsa/). It was the cheapest option I could find that offered index funds, and didn't require any money sitting in cash before I could invest, which has it's own opportunity cost which is it's own fee. This thread (https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135513&start=50) was particularly useful. Here's the TL:DR. Make your investment once a year, and all you'll have to pay is the "cost per trade" (once a year), and any dividend reinvestment fees (probably 4 times a year).
Thanks @Interest Compound - I found that thread useful, along with this one containing the list of documents you need.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=135513
The direct links to the documents have changed, but they are easy to find on Saturna's website. Saturna's staff is very helpful. I just took a distribution for the entire amount from my employer's hsa provider, and then called Saturna to do an EFT transfer from my bank. You can avoid a closeout fee at your current provider that way. Saturna did require me to send in a statement showing the distribution amount matched the contribution amount.
It was $24.95 invest my entire balance in FSTVX. Much cheaper than my employer's ~1% ER, and the requirement to keep $1,000s in cash.
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I had an employer HSA with BenefitWallet (backed by Mellon Bank of New York). When I left the company last year I looked into moving my HSA to another administrator. Surprisingly, I think they might be the best deal around, though their investing interface is not very intuitive. There's a $3.50 monthly fee for account balances under $1,000. Once the balance goes over $1,000 you can invest funds. The investment platform is through SaveDaily. There are a number of funds to invest in, and Vanguard Total Stock Market Investor Shares (VTSMX) is one of them. If you choose to invest, there is a $2.90 monthly fee for that, but no commissions are charged on transactions and no expense fees are taken beyond the monthly charge.
My HSA balance is five figures so I keep a little over $1,000 in the "savings" account, mitigating that monthly fee. The rest is invested in VTSMX and my only cost is $34.80 (2.90x12). I've heard the customer service isn't the greatest but I've only called them once in the 7 years I've had the HSA and I would say it was an average experience.
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Optum seems a bit cagey about stating their fees. Even when I found the right page, they wouldn't state them:
"Monthly Maintenance Fee
Refer to your Employer Open Enrollment materials, Optum Bank HSA Welcome Kit or log in to your account to view the fee schedule associated with your HSA for specifics under View Your Account Details on the HSA Dashboard"
https://www.optumbank.com/customer-support/hsa-resources/fees.html
I have been 100% fee-free in Optum for several years. But I can only invest my balance over $2500.
I originally signed up with them because they were fee-free in partnership with my health insurance company (I think it was United Health). I haven't had insurance with United Health for years, but they never seem to have noticed.
I think Optum is dodgy about their fees because their fees are highly dependent on who you're associated with.
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I just confirmed with HSA Bank that my fees are paid by my employer and do not come out of my account. So when evaluating options, it may be wise to check with HSA Bank or your HR department before making a decision.
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I just confirmed with HSA Bank that my fees are paid by my employer and do not come out of my account. So when evaluating options, it may be wise to check with HSA Bank or your HR department before making a decision.
They might be talking about the fees for the account. There is another fee that is $3 if you invest and have less than $5000 that comes out of your account. A single person can't get $5000 in one year so it will cost you $36.
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I just confirmed with HSA Bank that my fees are paid by my employer and do not come out of my account. So when evaluating options, it may be wise to check with HSA Bank or your HR department before making a decision.
They might be talking about the fees for the account. There is another fee that is $3 if you invest and have less than $5000 that comes out of your account. A single person can't get $5000 in one year so it will cost you $36.
I don't think so. I've had my account since Jan 2016. Account balance has never been over $400 or so and I have an autosweep set up so there is only ever $100 in the HSA Bank account with the rest in the TD account. I combed through my transaction history, and there have been no fees taken out. So unless there's something I'm missing, an employer can completely subsidize this, which is what the HSA Bank rep told me.
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I just confirmed with HSA Bank that my fees are paid by my employer and do not come out of my account. So when evaluating options, it may be wise to check with HSA Bank or your HR department before making a decision.
They might be talking about the fees for the account. There is another fee that is $3 if you invest and have less than $5000 that comes out of your account. A single person can't get $5000 in one year so it will cost you $36.
I don't think so. I've had my account since Jan 2016. Account balance has never been over $400 or so and I have an autosweep set up so there is only ever $100 in the HSA Bank account with the rest in the TD account. I combed through my transaction history, and there have been no fees taken out. So unless there's something I'm missing, an employer can completely subsidize this, which is what the HSA Bank rep told me.
Yea yours must be different than mine. It pretty clearly shows $3 getting taken out of the HSA account on the 7th of each month so you wouldn't miss it. My employer pays the rest of fees. (I think I heard the HR lady say $10 per employee) I asked her about the $3 fee and she said it is for any investment account that is under $5000. Must be different plans for different employers.
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I just opened by HSA account. My company provides one through Optum Bank.
$0/mo fee - the usual $3/mo fee is paid for by my company.
>fee could be reinstated if I leave my company but it would be waived if my average balance is over $5000/mo (this balance does not include investment funds).
ATM fee of $2.50/transaction + bank/ATM fee if applicable. $
$20 fee for Outbound Transfer or Rollover to another HSA custodian.
No minimum balance or contribution amount.
Investment Account has no monthly fee.
$2000 investment threshold: HSA must remain at or exceed investment threshold each time a new investment is made.
my investment options:
Vanguard Wellington VWENX
Vanguard Equity VEIRX
Blackrock Equity Dividend MDDVX
Vanguard S&P 500 Index FXIAX
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index VTSAX
Neuberger Berman Genesis NBGIX
American Funds Capital World CWGFX
Vanguard Global Equity MGOAX
John Hancock Large Equity TAGRX
T. Rowe Price Blue Chip Growth TRBCX
Fidelity Low-Priced Stock FLPSX
Vanguard Mid Cap Index VIMAX
Oppenheimer Developing Markets ODMAX
Vanguard Small Cap Index VSMAX
Vanguard Extended Market Index VEXAX
Vanguard REIT Index VGSLX
Vanguard Health Care VGHAX
Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth VSMGX
Vanguard LifeStrategy Conservative Growth VSCGX
Vanguard LifeStrategy Growth VASGX
PIMCO Real Return PRTNX
Lord Abbett High Yield PRTNX
JP Morgan Money Market VPMXX
Not crazy about having to keep $2000 available at all times and only investing the excess. but my company puts a certain amount of money in too, so it's free $ to have the HSA; and the $2k is a just in case fund for medical emergency.
w/o my company, sounds like Optum isn't the absolute best though.
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Wondering how many of you have a HSA that is not offered through an employers HDHP? If so are any of you able to make new contributions? I no longer have an employer with a HDHP and I was instructed by HR prior to leaving that I could not make new contributions. Is this still correct?
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Wondering how many of you have a HSA that is not offered through an employers HDHP? If so are any of you able to make new contributions? I no longer have an employer with a HDHP and I was instructed by HR prior to leaving that I could not make new contributions. Is this still correct?
You can contribute to an HSA as long as you are covered by an eligible High Deductible HSA Health Insurance plan. The HSA account is in your name so it's yours and exists as long as it is open regardless of where you're employed.
My HSA was first established when I worked for one employer with an eligible health insurance plan. After I switched jobs, I wasn't eligible to contribute their anymore because my new health insurance plan wasn't HSA eligible. However, at my next employer, it was HSA eligible again so I gave my employer my HSA direct deposit information and my contributions resumed.
Whenever possible, have the HSA contributions go through payroll so that your withholdings for Federal, State, and FICA taxes are lowered. Otherwise, if you have to contribute by transferring funds from your personal checking account into the HSA, your contributions would only be considered pre-tax for Federal and State taxes.
For good measure, contact your HSA vendor and ask them what your options are.
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Wondering how many of you have a HSA that is not offered through an employers HDHP? If so are any of you able to make new contributions? I no longer have an employer with a HDHP and I was instructed by HR prior to leaving that I could not make new contributions. Is this still correct?
I have an HSA that is not via an employer's HDHP. I would be able to make contributions *IF* my 2017 policy qualified. I was able to in 2016 (with a different policy) and hope to be able to again if my new insurance company can get it's act together. FWIW: I have never been under an employer based HDHP -- only a self directed HSA.
I wonder if the HR department meant you could no longer make new contributions to the plan they administer. I suspect you could move it to another administrator and make contributions if your current policy qualifies.
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HSA Authority.
Only fee is $36 Annual.
Portfolio includes all the Vanguard usual suspects.
Took a little time to set up and some snail mail activity, but I can now get money invested electronically in ~3days.
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Check out Lively - they are 100% FREE for Individuals and Families. Offer investing (through TD Ameritrade) for $2.50/month and are the top-ranked HSA on HSA Search.
https://livelyme.com/
Please note - I work at Lively.
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So Saturna is still the best if you contribute once per year at $15-25 per year. I wish Vanguard would offer an HSA directly!
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So Saturna is still the best if you contribute once per year at $15-25 per year. I wish Vanguard would offer an HSA directly!
I was all set this summer to sign up with Saturna and do a full, single contribution. I was happy with this approach. But my company addressed that our plans will be changing later in the year ( which is now ). So I held off.
I just got our new health plans. HSA is on their and with a employer match now...Great! but it is dispersed directly into the HSA bank of your choosing 2x of month. So it seems to me then, that i have basically just eliminated myself from using Saturna.
Does that seem correct?
I'm ready to max out my HSA for 2017 right now, but since things are so different for next year, seems best to put my 2017 contribution into what plan is best for our new and ongoing 2018 plan.
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Well, you can either put in Saturna and just invest it once a year, or you can pit is somewhere like HSA bank and pay about $66/year to invest it every two weeks.
I doubt it will make a huge difference either way.
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Morningstar did a comparison of HSAs, depending on your needs:
http://www.morningstar.com/blog/2017/09/25/best-hsa-investment.html
I am using Health Savings Administrators now but will change to the HSA Authority next year. Health Savings Administrators is great for ease of use, first-dollar investing, and dollar-cost averaging, all electronic, no snail mail or phone calls needed, but the cost is a little excessive.
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Possibly dumb question but here goes: when is a HDHP + HSA a better value than alternative plans?
I'm about to on-board with a new firm. They offer a few health care options, two of which are HSA compatible and the firm contributes $1000 towards the HSA. Here's the glitch: My wife is a student expected to graduate in May and I don't want her to have a gap in coverage while she's out of school and hunting for the right job. If it were just me, I'd dive into an HDHP + HSA model because I consume very little in health care. My wife, however, relies on multiple prescriptions, sees doctors regularly, and can be expected to have an ER visit once or twice a year. If I'm buying coverage for the both of us, does HDHP + HSA still make sense or does a higher premium lower deductible/coinsurance/oop max plan make more sense? I've used the HDHP Analysis tab in the case study spreadsheet and it gives me a crossover point where HDHP + HSA begins to cost more, but I feel the spreadsheet oversimplifies the analysis. Any thoughts?
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Possibly dumb question but here goes:when is a HDHP + HSA a better value than alternative plans?
I'm about to on-board with a new firm. They offer a few health care options, two of which are HSA compatible and the firm contributes $1000 towards the HSA. Here's the glitch: My wife is a student expected to graduate in May and I don't want her to have a gap in coverage while she's out of school and hunting for the right job. If it were just me, I'd dive into an HDHP + HSA model because I consume very little in health care. My wife, however, relies on multiple prescriptions, sees doctors regularly, and can be expected to have an ER visit once or twice a year. If I'm buying coverage for the both of us, does HDHP + HSA still make sense or does a higher premium lower deductible/coinsurance/oop max plan make more sense?
its a math equation you have to do the math. typically in most instances worst case scenario would be maxing out your OOP max - which ironically enough in most instances the HDHP with HSA still comes out ahead assuming you're company lets you do payroll deduct b/c you will bypass FICA taxes too. - basically you need to lay out all the plan info and costs for your plans and then do a cost comparison based on your expected costs for a year and worst case costs for a year. keeping in mind you need to max your HSA to take full advantage of the tax/FICA deducts.
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Possibly dumb question but here goes:when is a HDHP + HSA a better value than alternative plans?
I'm about to on-board with a new firm. They offer a few health care options, two of which are HSA compatible and the firm contributes $1000 towards the HSA. Here's the glitch: My wife is a student expected to graduate in May and I don't want her to have a gap in coverage while she's out of school and hunting for the right job. If it were just me, I'd dive into an HDHP + HSA model because I consume very little in health care. My wife, however, relies on multiple prescriptions, sees doctors regularly, and can be expected to have an ER visit once or twice a year. If I'm buying coverage for the both of us, does HDHP + HSA still make sense or does a higher premium lower deductible/coinsurance/oop max plan make more sense?
its a math equation you have to do the math. typically in most instances worst case scenario would be maxing out your OOP max - which ironically enough in most instances the HDHP with HSA still comes out ahead assuming you're company lets you do payroll deduct b/c you will bypass FICA taxes too. - basically you need to lay out all the plan info and costs for your plans and then do a cost comparison based on your expected costs for a year and worst case costs for a year. keeping in mind you need to max your HSA to take full advantage of the tax/FICA deducts.
Thank you.
Would a good place to start be to call up my wife's current insurer and ask them for a 2017 breakdown of her medical charges/expenses? Would the insurer also be able to tell me how much it would cost us for the same services in 2018 under their plans offered by my employer (same insurer).
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I've got the majority of my HSA (around $7,000) with HealthEquity. I've noticed a lot of people say that health equity is pretty bad. Curious as to why or if they are doing something hidden with fees? The only fees I've visibly seen are investment fees but these are all vanguard funds so it's only .03%. Please advise on what makes them bad.
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Possibly dumb question but here goes:when is a HDHP + HSA a better value than alternative plans?
I'm about to on-board with a new firm. They offer a few health care options, two of which are HSA compatible and the firm contributes $1000 towards the HSA. Here's the glitch: My wife is a student expected to graduate in May and I don't want her to have a gap in coverage while she's out of school and hunting for the right job. If it were just me, I'd dive into an HDHP + HSA model because I consume very little in health care. My wife, however, relies on multiple prescriptions, sees doctors regularly, and can be expected to have an ER visit once or twice a year. If I'm buying coverage for the both of us, does HDHP + HSA still make sense or does a higher premium lower deductible/coinsurance/oop max plan make more sense?
its a math equation you have to do the math. typically in most instances worst case scenario would be maxing out your OOP max - which ironically enough in most instances the HDHP with HSA still comes out ahead assuming you're company lets you do payroll deduct b/c you will bypass FICA taxes too. - basically you need to lay out all the plan info and costs for your plans and then do a cost comparison based on your expected costs for a year and worst case costs for a year. keeping in mind you need to max your HSA to take full advantage of the tax/FICA deducts.
Thank you.
Would a good place to start be to call up my wife's current insurer and ask them for a 2017 breakdown of her medical charges/expenses? Would the insurer also be able to tell me how much it would cost us for the same services in 2018 under their plans offered by my employer (same insurer).
no you start with what the two plans cost you and the cost savings using the HSA vehicle - then start applying your costs. - also i dont know why you would make a phone call - your information should be readily available online to understand what you spent last year.
99/100 times an HSA flat out wins and it doesnt matter what your spending was - there is a small percentage of the time where medications you take consistently make a higher premium plan out weigh the lower premium/ HSA tax savings of the HDHP.
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I've got the majority of my HSA (around $7,000) with HealthEquity. I've noticed a lot of people say that health equity is pretty bad. Curious as to why or if they are doing something hidden with fees? The only fees I've visibly seen are investment fees but these are all vanguard funds so it's only .03%. Please advise on what makes them bad.
HealthEquity is terrible because they have the highest fees I've seen, both a monthly dollar fee and an investment wrapper fee. Often a company will pay some or all of these fees while you're employed, but staying with them after you leave would cost you a lot more than moving to any of the low cost providers.
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Possibly dumb question but here goes: when is a HDHP + HSA a better value than alternative plans?
I'm about to on-board with a new firm. They offer a few health care options, two of which are HSA compatible and the firm contributes $1000 towards the HSA. Here's the glitch: My wife is a student expected to graduate in May and I don't want her to have a gap in coverage while she's out of school and hunting for the right job. If it were just me, I'd dive into an HDHP + HSA model because I consume very little in health care. My wife, however, relies on multiple prescriptions, sees doctors regularly, and can be expected to have an ER visit once or twice a year. If I'm buying coverage for the both of us, does HDHP + HSA still make sense or does a higher premium lower deductible/coinsurance/oop max plan make more sense? I've used the HDHP Analysis tab in the case study spreadsheet and it gives me a crossover point where HDHP + HSA begins to cost more, but I feel the spreadsheet oversimplifies the analysis. Any thoughts?
This is really a very individualized question that depends on your plan offerings and your medical expenses. Different employers subsidize their medical insurance plans differently. In some companies, the HDHP may be a no-brainer for most people, while in other companies perhaps they offer a big enough subsidy for the fancier plans that those may be more appealing to more people.
As to your medical expenses, take a look at the explanation of benefits forms that your partner currently gets from her insurance. That should give you a pretty good idea. The new insurance company will likely have slightly different negotiated rates for the services she needs, but it should be in the same ballpark.
I've got the majority of my HSA (around $7,000) with HealthEquity. I've noticed a lot of people say that health equity is pretty bad. Curious as to why or if they are doing something hidden with fees? The only fees I've visibly seen are investment fees but these are all vanguard funds so it's only .03%. Please advise on what makes them bad.
HealthEquity is terrible because they have the highest fees I've seen, both a monthly dollar fee and an investment wrapper fee. Often a company will pay some or all of these fees while you're employed, but staying with them after you leave would cost you a lot more than moving to any of the low cost providers.
Every HSA provider charges fees. HealthEquity's aren't the best, but they aren't all that terrible either. With their Index Investor plan (https://healthequity.com/indexinvestor/), there's an account fee of $36/year plus 0.24% of assets, in addition to the underlying fund expenses. For a $20k HSA balance invested in their 0.02% S&P 500 fund, that comes out to 0.44% overall expenses.
That Lively option mentioned above looks like a nice alternative though. Assuming you want to invest, you'll pay a $2.50/month fee for the TD Ameritrade account, and you can invest in some commission-free ETFs like a 0.04% iShares S&P 500 fund. For a $20k HSA balance that comes out to 0.19% total expenses. Definitely better than HealthEquity.
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I forgot to mention that HealthEquity also forces you to keep $1000 in cash, so assuming a 7% average return makes it cost another $70/yr.
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I've got the majority of my HSA (around $7,000) with HealthEquity. I've noticed a lot of people say that health equity is pretty bad. Curious as to why or if they are doing something hidden with fees? The only fees I've visibly seen are investment fees but these are all vanguard funds so it's only .03%. Please advise on what makes them bad.
HealthEquity is terrible because they have the highest fees I've seen, both a monthly dollar fee and an investment wrapper fee. Often a company will pay some or all of these fees while you're employed, but staying with them after you leave would cost you a lot more than moving to any of the low cost providers.
maybe I am getting the investment wrapper fee mixed up with what I thought was just the expense ratio of the mutual funds I hold. What low cost HSA do you recommend? I also have some funds set up with Saturna, so a transfer there would likely be easier than others if Saturna is a good one.
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"Best HSA" really depends on your needs and personal situation. Do you want to use it to pay for current expenses only? Do you want an HSA debit card? Do you want it to all stay invested as a stealth IRA? Do you want the broadest range of investment options? Do you want a mix of both? Can you make your full contribution in a single lump sum each year (which makes Saturna the cheapest option) or do you prefer to DCA? Do you mind the hassle of phone calls and paper checks to move your money around, or do you want to do it all purely online?
For example, Saturna may be the "cheapest" but only if you lump sum each year since they charge for each contribution activity, and also you need to send a paper check and application, so that's two strikes in my book. I am going to give HSA Authority a try but there you have to call to move your money from checking to investment and back again (if you want to use a card or checks to pay for current expenses.) I might try Lively if they get established and look solid. I expect a lot of churn in various HSA options in the years ahead and I don't want to waste a lot of time and money jumping around just to save $20.
I posted the Morningstar link where you can download their PDF analysis on the various largest ones (it's not comprehensive, since there are hundreds if not thousands of options, but these are the top ones): http://www.morningstar.com/blog/2017/09/25/best-hsa-investment.html
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maybe I am getting the investment wrapper fee mixed up with what I thought was just the expense ratio of the mutual funds I hold. What low cost HSA do you recommend? I also have some funds set up with Saturna, so a transfer there would likely be easier than others if Saturna is a good one.
Saturna has the lowest fees if you invest one lump sum per year or less. Lively seems to be least expensive if you want to invest more often (although they're very new, so don't be surprised if they raise their fees in a few years).
I posted the Morningstar link where you can download their PDF analysis on the various largest ones (it's not comprehensive, since there are hundreds if not thousands of options, but these are the top ones): http://www.morningstar.com/blog/2017/09/25/best-hsa-investment.html
This analysis is worthless, as all of the investment options they chose were expensive (the lowest was 0.57% ER I think). When you only look in the sewer the shiniest turd wins.
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"Best HSA" really depends on your needs and personal situation. Do you want to use it to pay for current expenses only? Do you want an HSA debit card? Do you want it to all stay invested as a stealth IRA? Do you want the broadest range of investment options? Do you want a mix of both? Can you make your full contribution in a single lump sum each year (which makes Saturna the cheapest option) or do you prefer to DCA? Do you mind the hassle of phone calls and paper checks to move your money around, or do you want to do it all purely online?
For example, Saturna may be the "cheapest" but only if you lump sum each year since they charge for each contribution activity, and also you need to send a paper check and application, so that's two strikes in my book. I am going to give HSA Authority a try but there you have to call to move your money from checking to investment and back again (if you want to use a card or checks to pay for current expenses.) I might try Lively if they get established and look solid. I expect a lot of churn in various HSA options in the years ahead and I don't want to waste a lot of time and money jumping around just to save $20.
I posted the Morningstar link where you can download their PDF analysis on the various largest ones (it's not comprehensive, since there are hundreds if not thousands of options, but these are the top ones): http://www.morningstar.com/blog/2017/09/25/best-hsa-investment.html
Do you want it to all stay invested as a stealth IRA? YES!!!!
My opinion is that the triple tax shelter of an HSA is just too good of a deal for me to be spending out of it now at this stage in my life.
I have a hdhp and rarely if ever go to the doctor. When I do, I'll pay out of pocket now, and not touch my HSA, and only use it around retirement. So based on that, I'm thinking Saturna is my best option. Making one lump sum investment per year is no big deal for me. Does that one lump sum have to go into one asset class / fund only? Or can it be spread out accordingly?
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I don't use Saturna, but as far as I understand their fee is per trade, so if you wanted to buy multiple funds it costs $15-25 each.
I just put my whole HSA into an S&P500 fund and rebalance the rest of my portfolio to account for that, but if you need more than that for any reason another provider might be cheaper.
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HSA Authority.
Only fee is $36 Annual.
Portfolio includes all the Vanguard usual suspects.
Took a little time to set up and some snail mail activity, but I can now get money invested electronically in ~3days.
Just signed up for the investment account. Does it just sweep from the checking automatically to put money in? All the instructions are around getting money out.