Author Topic: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?  (Read 1429 times)

apricotfuzz

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« on: March 02, 2021, 06:03:12 AM »
Hey All,

When I married, my wife had notable equities under management with a financial planner.  He charges a conventional fee (~1.0%) for management.

We're young (30s), both working and in the incredibly fortunate position that we don't need access to fund.  Unsurprisingly, the manager's performance doesn't beat the market and when I look at the effect of his fees over time, I'm staggered by how large the drag is on the return to the whole portfolio.

I'd love to move us to a simple JL Collins/Boglehead portfolio and let it ride for 20-30 years, contributing as much as we can.  However, it's currently a broad mix of individual stocks, bond funds, etf, etc etc. 

With the current state of market- there are gains on everything.  Presumably, we'll have to take the tax hit on these gains as we sell and move into a different fund? 

Any advice on how to migrate his individual choices to a streamlined indexed portfolio with this least tax consequences?

Thanks in advance!   

cool7hand

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1319
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2021, 06:26:19 AM »
Congratulations on making the change!

Is everything in a brokerage account? Is there nothing in an IRA, 401k, or 403b? Can you transfer everything to Schwab or a similar platform right now so that you can at least free yourself from the professional's fees? Can you bridge the sales over several years as you invest new monies more efficiently?

A little more granularity would be helpful!

apricotfuzz

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2021, 08:31:23 AM »
Thanks for the quick response!

Everything currently managed in a Schwab account,  brokerage, Roth IRA and IRA-   So I think we'd be set from a platform perspective, just severing the management ties (which is presumably just a phone call to Schwab and the manager?)

Yes, we can completely bridge the sales over several years- would you keep an eye on tax bracket to guide those sales?  Or would there be other metrics in play?



Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22390
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2021, 08:34:35 AM »
Posting to follow - for a friend, of course.

Tigerpine

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 495
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2021, 08:46:24 AM »
My understanding is that you can buy and sell inside the IRA or Roth IRA without tax obligations as long as you do not make distributions.

So the real question is the money in the non-IRA brokerage account.  Find out your holding period, because the difference between your sell price and basis for anything you own for 1 year or less is considered short term capital gain/loss, but anything you've held for at least 1 year plus 1 day is long term capital gain/loss.

If you have to sell, ideally you'd like it all to be taxed at a long term capital gain basis, assuming you're not in a very low marginal tax rate bracket.

When you sell, you can spread it out or you can sell some things at a loss and others at a gain and potentially have them cancel each other out.

apricotfuzz

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2021, 08:50:05 AM »
You got it-  the vast majority is in a non- IRA brokerage account.

Good thinking about short vs long term capital gains-  Probably wise to create a multiple year schedule- selling based on tax bracket, and the when certain stock fall into the long term cap gains category.

Any other wisdom out there on this?

robartsd

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3342
  • Location: Sacramento, CA
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2021, 09:05:57 AM »
Long term cap gains simply means held at least 1 full year.

I believe if you have purchased shares of the same stock multiple times you can designate which shares you're selling, so if you bought 100 shares 5 years ago and 10 shares a month ago, you can sell the 100 shares using the tax basis from 5 years ago at long term capital gains rate, but the 10 recently purchased shares have to be held or would be subject to short term capital gains status.

bacchi

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 7095
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2021, 09:12:18 AM »
Take a sabbatical and sell up to the 0% bracket?

Donate appreciated stock?

Not much else you can do except spread out the pain.

Frankies Girl

  • Magnum Stache
  • ******
  • Posts: 3899
  • Age: 86
  • Location: The oubliette.
  • Ghouls Just Wanna Have Funds!
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2021, 09:13:30 AM »
Anything inside an IRA/tax deferred account can be sold without incurring any taxes on cap gains. So get those accounts out of the way ASAP - once you figure out what you want to hold across all the accounts (your asset allocation).

The brokerage is subject to tax if you are above (I think) the 12% taxable bracket.

https://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/tax-brackets.aspx

Married filing jointly caps at $80,250, so that would mean if you combined make under that then you could start selling anything you've held longer than 1 year as long term cap gains up to that ~$80K cap and pay zero dollars (as long as you don't go over anyway on anything else). If you do, then that money over the amount is taxed, so you'll need to figure out a schedule if you will be paying taxes on LTCGs until you get it all moved into the funds you want to hold long term. 

Check the fees on the funds to buy and sell too. You'll want to make sure whatever you end up buying is the best for YOUR brokerage as far as no fee, but you can't do much about the fees for selling if there are any depending on what junk your adviser put you in unfortunately.

Once you've fired the manager, the main thing to do is to turn off any automatic reinvesting in the brokerage accounts on all the funds held that you're planning on dumping. This prevents future short term lots being created, so you can start moving/selling from the oldest and hopefully by the time you reach the front of the line (the newest lots) you'll at least minimize the short term cap gains you'll have to sell off.


And another note: you may want to examine the best most tax efficient funds to hold in your taxable. I hold ONE mutual fund in mine and use my tax deferred accounts to hold the bonds and such so they can generate dividends and other junk til the cows come home but don't pop my tax owed up at all. You want low turnover, low dividend generation as far as I've understood.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Principles_of_tax-efficient_fund_placement

And finally as I just ran into this last year, you may want to examine how Schwab defaults their cost basis in the taxable. In my case, I use Fidelity, and just discovered that they use average cost basis as their default so that means I don't have exact cost basis unless I want to dig through the paperwork and report them myself (I don't). It isn't a huge deal for me as we were talking a few dollars difference and they report their info to the IRS. My understanding is that before 2012, it was on the individual to track their funds and that sounds like a nightmare. Average CB can work in your favor depending if things are up or down when selling and whether you are buying over a long period of time it can smooth a bumpy ride out, but you do want to make sure you understand the pro/con of whatever their default CB is so it doesn't surprise you when you go to sell.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2021, 09:37:00 AM by Frankies Girl »

Tigerpine

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 495
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2021, 09:14:45 AM »
Long term cap gains simply means held at least 1 full year.
Just to nitpick a little, if you sell an equity at exactly one year from the date of purchase, it's still short term capital gain/loss.

https://www.irs.gov/taxtopics/tc409

trollwithamustache

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1146
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2021, 09:15:00 AM »
I'm gonna propose you don't worry too much about the tax consequences.  Here is why, many financial advisors are required to trade XX many times per quarter in your account to generate fees for the broker dealer. They say its ethical because that way you can benefit from their active management.

But that means no matter how you time it, you will have some short term gains. you likely can't get to 100% optimal, so its worth considering getting it done, which gets you out of the 1% fee and underperformance issue.  Which I suspect is the big issue.

MustacheAndaHalf

  • Walrus Stache
  • *******
  • Posts: 6658
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2021, 09:30:40 AM »
... Presumably, we'll have to take the tax hit on these gains as we sell and move into a different fund? 

Any advice on how to migrate his individual choices to a streamlined indexed portfolio with this least tax consequences?
You can transfer stocks and ETFs between brokerages without selling them.  I forget the exact name, but there's an asset to asset transfer you can use.

Things are trickier for mutual funds, in that selling fund shares costs $25-$50 per trade (last I checked).  Any brokerage can buy and sell ETFs, but only Vanguard can buy/sell Vanguard mutual funds.  Other brokerages have to go through some special hassle, and would rather you not hold assets from a competitor.  If you move mutual funds to another brokerage, you're going to want to sell in large blocks to make the commissions worthwhile.

Can you keep your assets where they are, and just exit the 1% of assets annual fee?  Do you have many mutual funds with that advisor?

apricotfuzz

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2021, 06:28:59 AM »
Thank you all!  I much appreciate the wisdom in this forum!

FLBiker

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1794
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Canada
    • Chop Wood Carry FIRE
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2021, 07:00:40 AM »
You can transfer stocks and ETFs between brokerages without selling them.  I forget the exact name, but there's an asset to asset transfer you can use.

Things are trickier for mutual funds, in that selling fund shares costs $25-$50 per trade (last I checked).  Any brokerage can buy and sell ETFs, but only Vanguard can buy/sell Vanguard mutual funds.  Other brokerages have to go through some special hassle, and would rather you not hold assets from a competitor.  If you move mutual funds to another brokerage, you're going to want to sell in large blocks to make the commissions worthwhile.

Can you keep your assets where they are, and just exit the 1% of assets annual fee?  Do you have many mutual funds with that advisor?

This is what I was going to suggest -- are the investments themselves bad (ie high expense ratios, actively managed, etc.) or just the advisor fee?  If you do a transfer in kind, you don't sell anything and thus don't pay any capital gains.  I just moved our taxable from Vanguard to Questrade (because we moved to Canada) and I didn't sell anything -- just shifted the two Vanguard ETFs into a US denominated account at QT.  We won't pay any taxes on the move.

apricotfuzz

  • 5 O'Clock Shadow
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2021, 08:44:51 AM »
@FLBiker   There's some individual stock picks that seem silly, overall I don't think there's anything catastrophic.    Just have to schedule a slow migration, reduce tax hits and get to a place of simplicity that I don't have to think about it.   

Thanks!

Sandi_k

  • Handlebar Stache
  • *****
  • Posts: 1597
  • Location: California
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2021, 10:04:46 AM »
... Presumably, we'll have to take the tax hit on these gains as we sell and move into a different fund? 

Any advice on how to migrate his individual choices to a streamlined indexed portfolio with this least tax consequences?
You can transfer stocks and ETFs between brokerages without selling them.  I forget the exact name, but there's an asset to asset transfer you can use.

It's called transferring the investments "in kind" - you keep the shares and do not liquidate. This is only available if your new brokerage sells the same funds or stocks. Which is why slimy "investment advisors" will frequently put you in proprietary investments only available at their brokerage house.

Things are trickier for mutual funds, in that selling fund shares costs $25-$50 per trade (last I checked).

This depends upon the brokerage, and the amount of your assets under management; many brokerage accounts have a certain number of free trades, or fee-free funds.

Any brokerage can buy and sell ETFs, but only Vanguard can buy/sell Vanguard mutual funds. 

Not true - you just pay a "platform fee" to buy Vanguard. I own Vanguard funds at Fidelity.

Other brokerages have to go through some special hassle, and would rather you not hold assets from a competitor.  If you move mutual funds to another brokerage, you're going to want to sell in large blocks to make the commissions worthwhile.

The "special hassle" is a fee. I pay $75 every time I submit a "buy" order of Vanguard funds on the Fidelity platform. So, I want to make sure that the "buy" is significant, to reduce the fee-per-share.

G-String

  • Bristles
  • ***
  • Posts: 445
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2021, 05:37:07 PM »
Posting to follow - for a friend, of course.
What's wrong with following for yourself?

Dicey

  • Senior Mustachian
  • ********
  • Posts: 22390
  • Age: 66
  • Location: NorCal
Re: Migrating Away from Financial Planner- Advice?
« Reply #17 on: March 06, 2021, 12:46:26 AM »
Posting to follow - for a friend, of course.
What's wrong with following for yourself?
It's a joke. Some people really hate "PTF", so I was injecting a little humor.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!