Author Topic: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!  (Read 37609 times)

zephyr911

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #100 on: January 29, 2016, 07:26:36 AM »
For people with such poor risk appetites - I recommend real estate/rental property that is in a reasonably good area.

You don't "see" the markets fluctuate much, only if its severe enough. If the rental throws off the 30K you need to retire post vacancy calculations, then you should never have to sell it.

You need to diversify.

I feel like everyone should have some rental exposure. Just one good house can provide a substantial portion of the average FIRE income requirement (see MMM's AA). Yeah, it can be lumpy, so you need some cash reserves, but it's a great hedge, among other things.

With rentals as my primary FIRE income, my risk tolerance in IRAs will always be above average, and no amount of market insanity will dissuade me when it's time to start my new life.

merula

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #101 on: January 29, 2016, 10:54:39 AM »
Will everyone please stop reassuring all the prophets of doom, destruction and "This time is different!"?

I need to have someone on the other side of my buy transactions.
Ever read that book? It's on my wish list.

I had never heard of it, but it's now on my goodreads list. Thanks! Plus, in searching my library, I came across another one that looks like an interesting read: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/11106024-markets-never-forget-but-people-do

Jack

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #102 on: January 29, 2016, 11:10:16 AM »
For people with such poor risk appetites - I recommend real estate/rental property that is in a reasonably good area.

You don't "see" the markets fluctuate much, only if its severe enough. If the rental throws off the 30K you need to retire post vacancy calculations, then you should never have to sell it.

You need to diversify.

I feel like everyone should have some rental exposure. Just one good house can provide a substantial portion of the average FIRE income requirement (see MMM's AA). Yeah, it can be lumpy, so you need some cash reserves, but it's a great hedge, among other things.

With rentals as my primary FIRE income, my risk tolerance in IRAs will always be above average, and no amount of market insanity will dissuade me when it's time to start my new life.

It's off-topic, but I'll mention that the only thing that's making it hard for me to add real estate to my AA is that I'd currently have to forego maxing my tax-advantaged accounts to do it. Once I'm able to max those accounts and have another $20K/year left over for other investment, then I'd be able to get into real estate.

robartsd

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #103 on: January 29, 2016, 02:24:54 PM »
It's off-topic, but I'll mention that the only thing that's making it hard for me to add real estate to my AA is that I'd currently have to forego maxing my tax-advantaged accounts to do it. Once I'm able to max those accounts and have another $20K/year left over for other investment, then I'd be able to get into real estate.
It is possible to invest in real estate in tax advantaged accounts (and I'm not just talking REITs). It may not be easy to set up, precludes DIY repairs and management, and may be difficult to finance; but investment properties are allowed in an self-directed IRA.

Financial.Velociraptor

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #104 on: January 29, 2016, 03:10:02 PM »
It's off-topic, but I'll mention that the only thing that's making it hard for me to add real estate to my AA is that I'd currently have to forego maxing my tax-advantaged accounts to do it. Once I'm able to max those accounts and have another $20K/year left over for other investment, then I'd be able to get into real estate.
It is possible to invest in real estate in tax advantaged accounts (and I'm not just talking REITs). It may not be easy to set up, precludes DIY repairs and management, and may be difficult to finance; but investment properties are allowed in an self-directed IRA.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/06/06/how-to-invest-your-ira-in-real-estate-gold-and-alternative-assets/#570ef7c14881

Geekenstein

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #105 on: January 29, 2016, 03:21:30 PM »

I feel like everyone should have some rental exposure. Just one good house can provide a substantial portion of the average FIRE income requirement (see MMM's AA). Yeah, it can be lumpy, so you need some cash reserves, but it's a great hedge, among other things.

With rentals as my primary FIRE income, my risk tolerance in IRAs will always be above average, and no amount of market insanity will dissuade me when it's time to start my new life.

I think there are a couple of reasons more people don't do this:

1. It's work.  Even if you farm the management of it out, you still have work to do.  Not everyone has the time to do it right.
2. It's not something just anyone can do.  Without detailing all of the things you need to do right to have a decently performing rental, it's not easy.

I know that's not new information, and those may be absolutely stupid-sounding reasons, but they are real.  Unless one is in a position to dedicate themselves to being a successful landlord it's something that can go badly, and wind up being an expensive mess.


http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/06/06/how-to-invest-your-ira-in-real-estate-gold-and-alternative-assets/#570ef7c14881


Nice link, thanks!!
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 03:25:05 PM by Geekenstein »

Jack

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #106 on: January 29, 2016, 04:32:13 PM »
It's off-topic, but I'll mention that the only thing that's making it hard for me to add real estate to my AA is that I'd currently have to forego maxing my tax-advantaged accounts to do it. Once I'm able to max those accounts and have another $20K/year left over for other investment, then I'd be able to get into real estate.
It is possible to invest in real estate in tax advantaged accounts (and I'm not just talking REITs). It may not be easy to set up, precludes DIY repairs and management, and may be difficult to finance; but investment properties are allowed in an self-directed IRA.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/deborahljacobs/2012/06/06/how-to-invest-your-ira-in-real-estate-gold-and-alternative-assets/#570ef7c14881


Oops, I forgot to mention: I've previously looked into that possibility, and the "no DIY repairs and management" part is a deal breaker for me.

LadyStache in Baja

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #107 on: January 29, 2016, 09:20:14 PM »
Love this thread.  I like to read stuff like this to program my brain ahead of time so that when I lose a substantial amount of money in a downturn at some point in the future, I'll remember to ride it out!  commenting to follow

WerKater

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #108 on: January 30, 2016, 05:55:55 AM »
1. It's work.  Even if you farm the management of it out, you still have work to do.  Not everyone has the time to do it right.
2. It's not something just anyone can do.  Without detailing all of the things you need to do right to have a decently performing rental, it's not easy.

I know that's not new information, and those may be absolutely stupid-sounding reasons, but they are real.  Unless one is in a position to dedicate themselves to being a successful landlord it's something that can go badly, and wind up being an expensive mess.

At least the second reason is not stupid at all, it's what is keeping me from investing in real estate. There are places (like where I live) where it is simply hard to impossible to find rentals that are cash-flow positive. I certainly haven't been able to find any. Sure, they might exist, but it lokks like it will take an awful amount of effort to find one (if they exist). And then you still run the risk that you overlooked something seriously wrong with one of the very few properties that you would be able to buy. So for me: Thanks but no thanks. I'll take the volatility of the stock market over this kind of risk an day.

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #109 on: January 30, 2016, 07:29:36 AM »
I think there are a couple of reasons more people don't do this:

1. It's work.  Even if you farm the management of it out, you still have work to do.  Not everyone has the time to do it right.
2. It's not something just anyone can do.  Without detailing all of the things you need to do right to have a decently performing rental, it's not easy.

I know that's not new information, and those may be absolutely stupid-sounding reasons, but they are real.  Unless one is in a position to dedicate themselves to being a successful landlord it's something that can go badly, and wind up being an expensive mess.


Those are reasons that temper my interest. I'd also add having high local house prices. I live on an island and the 100yr cottage I live in costs $420K+. Buying property to rent out is hard and the ratio of cost vs. rent is not favourable.

I'm not keen on buying somewhere other than where I live so my thought is to invest in REITs for additional RE exposure without the hassles.

zephyr911

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #110 on: February 02, 2016, 10:30:09 AM »
I think there are a couple of reasons more people don't do this:

1. It's work.  Even if you farm the management of it out, you still have work to do.  Not everyone has the time to do it right.
2. It's not something just anyone can do.  Without detailing all of the things you need to do right to have a decently performing rental, it's not easy.

I know that's not new information, and those may be absolutely stupid-sounding reasons, but they are real.  Unless one is in a position to dedicate themselves to being a successful landlord it's something that can go badly, and wind up being an expensive mess.
I don't dispute any of that. I just feel like a community where people are willing to put so much time and energy into learning, planning, and executing financial strategies should be pretty low on people who actually find #1 and #2 to be full-on dealbreakers.

Or maybe I just don't adequately count up all the time and energy I've put into it, because I (personally) like it so much that I don't think of most of it as work... xD

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #111 on: February 02, 2016, 10:54:01 AM »
I think there are a couple of reasons more people don't do this:

1. It's work.  Even if you farm the management of it out, you still have work to do.  Not everyone has the time to do it right.
2. It's not something just anyone can do.  Without detailing all of the things you need to do right to have a decently performing rental, it's not easy.

I know that's not new information, and those may be absolutely stupid-sounding reasons, but they are real.  Unless one is in a position to dedicate themselves to being a successful landlord it's something that can go badly, and wind up being an expensive mess.
I don't dispute any of that. I just feel like a community where people are willing to put so much time and energy into learning, planning, and executing financial strategies should be pretty low on people who actually find #1 and #2 to be full-on dealbreakers.

Or maybe I just don't adequately count up all the time and energy I've put into it, because I (personally) like it so much that I don't think of most of it as work... xD

Those two points are dissuading me from RE as well. Yeah, I'm sure I've spend a decent amount of time reading about investing, DIY home repair, or finding the cheapest phone provider. But that's usually done in 10 min chunks when I feel like it. And kinda something I'd have to do anyway. With a house to maintain, two adults at work ~10 hrs/day and a child I don't want to (and my wife definitely don't) have to spend weekends dealing with skumbag renters, toilet leaks, painting walls etc etc. It's a nice idea and I've looked into it, but really can't be bothered to sacrifice my valuable time, and a $50k+ down payment, for something that may or may not cash flow (around here i think most don't).

And speaking of losses. Considering the house repairs, maintenance and upgrades we have done I can easily see sinking $5k into your rental every now and then, equivalent to the losses my Roth have taken this year.. Hopefully you get some back, but still have to deal with major drops in value/expenses/surprises, just of a different kind.

Cougar

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #112 on: February 02, 2016, 11:31:19 AM »
Love this thread.  I like to read stuff like this to program my brain ahead of time so that when I lose a substantial amount of money in a downturn at some point in the future, I'll remember to ride it out!  commenting to follow


Then enjoy this read:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-02-02/numbers-are-hedge-funds-furiously-dumped-rally-selling-was-biggest-nearly-two-years

"The Numbers Are In: Hedge Funds Furiously Dumped The Rally; Selling Was "Biggest In Nearly Two Years"

There are signs like this everywhere that the smart guys/big boys are getting out, just follow zerohedge for a week.

Discard my post if you wish, but what macroeconomics anywhere say the global economy is not slowing ?

Histories suggest a bad January means a bad year and every 10% you lose; you need to have to wait for a 20% gain to be even again.


ok, i'm out of this thread again; the buy and hold and dollar costs avg preaching here just frustrates me so much; imo the mantra for the mmm crowd should be capital preservation; i do not know why it isn't.


sol

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #113 on: February 02, 2016, 11:43:03 AM »
every 10% you lose; you need to have to wait for a 20% gain to be even again.

I think you failed 7th grade math.

I also think you failed sophomore econ, but that's a more forgivable offense.

FLBiker

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #114 on: February 02, 2016, 11:45:23 AM »
ok, i'm out of this thread again; the buy and hold and dollar costs avg preaching here just frustrates me so much; imo the mantra for the mmm crowd should be capital preservation; i do not know why it isn't.

I may be too late, but I'm wondering what you mean exactly (strategywise) by capital preservation, other than market timing (ie getting out before you know it's going to drop).

merula

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #115 on: February 02, 2016, 11:50:31 AM »
every 10% you lose; you need to have to wait for a 20% gain to be even again.

I think you failed 7th grade math.

I also think you failed sophomore econ, but that's a more forgivable offense.

Is this a severe misinterpretation of needing an 11% gain to make up for a 10% loss? If you lose $10 on a $100 investment, you'll then need to gain $10 on your remaining $90, which is 11%?

Also, how is selling low preserving capital? smh

Interest Compound

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #116 on: February 02, 2016, 11:51:43 AM »
every 10% you lose; you need to have to wait for a 20% gain to be even again.

$100 - 10% = $90

$90 + 20% = $108


Interest Compound

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #117 on: February 02, 2016, 12:44:29 PM »
There are signs like this everywhere that the smart guys/big boys are getting out, just follow zerohedge for a week.

This is a very interesting comment, which offers a good thought experiment for the newbies of the thread. What's the best sign that some people are selling? Market price. Simply looking at a graph shows us that people are getting out. But what else does it show us?



Remember, for every dollar that's selling, there's a corresponding dollar that's buying. So for every "smart guy/gal or big boy/girl" who is getting out, another one is getting in at that exact point! Who are you to know that one half is smarter than the other half? What information do you think you have, that they don't?

The only way to win, is not to play. When buying an index, you are mathematically guaranteed to beat or match 50% of all dollars invested in the market. You will never underperform.

If you're looking at one particular year, sure, there's a chance you can beat the market on your own. But over the long term with the index, you're beating 50% of all invested dollars this year, then beating 50% of all invested dollars next year, and the year after that...every single year for the rest of your life.

If you're trying to beat this, even one bad year can make it almost impossible to catch up. Losing 50% one year, means you need to gain 100% next year just to break even. If you do 10% better than the index one year, then do 10% worse than the index the next year, you will still end up with less money than simply choosing the index.

It seems counterintuitive, but the opposite has the same result. Do 10% worse than the index one year, then 10% better than the index the next year, and you are still behind the index.

When looking at the long term, you're beating significantly more than 50%, you're beating almost everybody. The compounding effects of bad years make it incredibly difficult to beat the index long-term.

zephyr911

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #118 on: February 02, 2016, 01:45:53 PM »
Those two points are dissuading me from RE as well. Yeah, I'm sure I've spend a decent amount of time reading about investing, DIY home repair, or finding the cheapest phone provider. But that's usually done in 10 min chunks when I feel like it. And kinda something I'd have to do anyway. With a house to maintain, two adults at work ~10 hrs/day and a child I don't want to (and my wife definitely don't) have to spend weekends dealing with skumbag renters, toilet leaks, painting walls etc etc. It's a nice idea and I've looked into it, but really can't be bothered to sacrifice my valuable time, and a $50k+ down payment, for something that may or may not cash flow (around here i think most don't).

And speaking of losses. Considering the house repairs, maintenance and upgrades we have done I can easily see sinking $5k into your rental every now and then, equivalent to the losses my Roth have taken this year.. Hopefully you get some back, but still have to deal with major drops in value/expenses/surprises, just of a different kind.
What you just listed are a bunch of good reasons for the 50% rule of thumb. Outsource everything, and you get (on average) half of your scheduled rent. And only if it still beats the market after allowing for all those deductions does it make for an ideal investment. If nothing in your area qualifies, then staying out of the market is the right idea.
I'm gung-ho about it because there's no shortage of such properties here, and the entry fee is only $10-15K in some cases.

I may be too late, but I'm wondering what you mean exactly (strategywise) by capital preservation, other than market timing (ie getting out before you know it's going to drop).
Guys, this isn't rocket science. Cougar is right - all you have to do to beat the market is develop psychic powers. If you can't figure out how to do that, your only solution is 100% bank CDs, and save 100x your FIRE spending.


Eric

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #119 on: February 02, 2016, 01:56:25 PM »
There are signs like this everywhere that the smart guys/big boys are getting out, just follow zerohedge for a week.

This is a very interesting comment, which offers a good thought experiment for the newbies of the thread. What's the best sign that some people are selling? Market price. Simply looking at a graph shows us that people are getting out. But what else does it show us?

The only problem with the graph is that it assumes that anyone following zerohedge still had money in the market in 2016.  Everyone at zerohedge knew that the crash was right around the corner in 2013.  And 2014.  And 2015.

If you followed zerohedge for the right week, you'd know that you could've avoided all of the losses of the last month by simply avoiding the gains of the last few years.

zephyr911

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #120 on: February 02, 2016, 02:01:10 PM »
...you could've avoided all of the losses of the last month by simply avoiding the gains of the last few years.

I'm fuckin' dyin' here! xD #$%^&

robartsd

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #121 on: February 02, 2016, 02:18:32 PM »
Remember that hedge fund managers are somewhat constrained by the emotional reactions to the markets of their investors. If they have more money being divested than invested in their fund, they have to make up the difference. Who knows, they may even be personally buying while their fund sells.

zephyr911

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #122 on: February 02, 2016, 02:36:02 PM »
Remember that hedge fund managers are somewhat constrained by the emotional reactions to the markets of their investors. If they have more money being divested than invested in their fund, they have to make up the difference. Who knows, they may even be personally buying while their fund sells.
I should hope they would, with all that extra commission all of a sudden.

AdrianC

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #123 on: February 02, 2016, 03:37:22 PM »



And that works out to about 2.3% annualized after inflation, dividends reinvested.

AdrianC

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #124 on: February 02, 2016, 03:43:03 PM »
Remember that hedge fund managers are somewhat constrained by the emotional reactions to the markets of their investors. If they have more money being divested than invested in their fund, they have to make up the difference. Who knows, they may even be personally buying while their fund sells.
I should hope they would, with all that extra commission all of a sudden.

Fund managers charge a % of assets under management.

Full_Beard

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #125 on: February 02, 2016, 04:45:00 PM »



And that works out to about 2.3% annualized after inflation, dividends reinvested.
Well, your point is a good one. But of course you can pick and choose a time period to modify the results. For example, if I expand that period and go from 1/1/1995 through 12/31/2015, the annualized return (adjusted for inflation and with dividends reinvested), I get 7.08% annual return. A good viewpoint:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/02/business/20110102-metrics-graphic.html

AdrianC

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #126 on: February 03, 2016, 05:17:35 AM »
Well, your point is a good one. But of course you can pick and choose a time period to modify the results. For example, if I expand that period and go from 1/1/1995 through 12/31/2015, the annualized return (adjusted for inflation and with dividends reinvested), I get 7.08% annual return. A good viewpoint:

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2011/01/02/business/20110102-metrics-graphic.html

Nice chart. It says to me "save more".

Rollin

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #127 on: February 03, 2016, 06:33:29 AM »
So while we are all on the ship deciding if we should throw A Plan Comes Together (the OP) a life ring, call the Coast Guard, or see if he (or she?) can swim, has anyone heard from APCT?  Last post was 1/22/16.  It would be great to hear how he (or she?) is doing.

SevenSeas

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #128 on: February 04, 2016, 03:39:58 AM »
This is the best time to BUY - not to SELL!
I was trying to increase my cash reserves in the last 6 months. But with this small correction, I put it all in :) Mmm discount prices. I love to save more during these periods too for an added bonus :).

AdrianC

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #129 on: February 04, 2016, 05:26:55 AM »
This is the best time to BUY - not to SELL!

It's a better time to buy.

zephyr911

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #130 on: February 04, 2016, 07:17:00 AM »
So while we are all on the ship deciding if we should throw A Plan Comes Together (the OP) a life ring, call the Coast Guard, or see if he (or she?) can swim, has anyone heard from APCT?  Last post was 1/22/16.  It would be great to hear how he (or she?) is doing.
Sold it all, partying with the proceeds

Fund managers charge a % of assets under management.
Oh, I'm a dumbass. Oh well.

Jsn

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #131 on: December 24, 2017, 11:43:17 PM »
I'm reviving this old thread to illustrate the power of staying the course.

This fellow invested in the market in January of 2015. By early 2016 he was convinced he'd "missed the entire ride up" and that "this market now seems intent on going straight to hell". To him, it was obvious that "I f'ed myself over on waiting until the peak to buy in...I'm literally watching my hard work and hopes and dreams vanish with each day."

Today's total S&P return since January 2015, dividends reinvested? 36.984%.


I get the whole "eventually the market always goes up" argument and trying to time it can result in losses. However, I'm in a situation here that is tearing me to shreds:

1. I had planned on early retiring at some point this year.
2. I missed the entire ride up. At the start of last year, I piled my entire net worth into investments, despite understanding we were at historically high valuations (foolish, in retrospect).
3. I've held tight since, despite the downturns. But this market now seems intent on going straight to hell with crazy overreactions to stupid shit (China is less than 1% of all U.S. exports!!!!!! WTF?!!?!). There is zero good news that has any sustained impact and the downturn has "seemingly" just started - we're still at a high valuation level.
4. My only hope for saving my retirement this year (and potentially years ahead) is to sell today and buy back in at a lower level that could get me back to par. I'd be happy to just recoup my losses and then play it smarter in the future by finding ways to protect the downside.
5. I don't think I have 2, 3, 4+ more years of work left in me to get back to the point I was at last year.

I realized I f'ed myself over on waiting until the peak to buy in and then planning to retire shortly after. Rare scenario, but shit happens. I'm literally watching my hard work and hopes and dreams vanish with each day. My plan is falling apart. Talk to me, please.

bacchi

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #132 on: December 24, 2017, 11:55:32 PM »
I hope he didn't sell. He sounded like he was on the ropes.

sol

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #133 on: December 25, 2017, 09:37:12 AM »
Awesome.  Rereading this whole thread was awesome.

JAYSLOL

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #134 on: December 25, 2017, 09:54:09 AM »
Wow, I just read this whole thread.  10/10, HUGE respect to the vast majority that posted fantastic advice, I really hope the OP followed it!  The MMM community really does have a good handle on things.  Also enjoyed Cougars guest appearance of doom and gloom and misguided advice, which may have scared me a couple years ago, but thanks to Top Is In, Red Dow and now this I think I'm fully up to date with my Emotional Financial Decisions vaccinations.   

itchyfeet

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #135 on: December 25, 2017, 03:49:27 PM »
Awesome read. Great lesson on market timing. I’d love to hear an honest update from the OP.

Did they sell? Have they re-entered the market yet? Are they still waiting for the correction that “must happen”?


Indexer

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #136 on: December 25, 2017, 09:50:50 PM »
Just checked and OP hasn't been active since Oct 2016, but the last investment related post I saw was the one where he said he wasn't going to sell.

We can hope for the best.

BTDretire

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #137 on: December 26, 2017, 01:49:43 PM »
I only scanned the posts, but I didn't see anyone ask what he invested in to be down 15% while VTSAX is up 32%,
from the beginning of last year.
So, did you invest in no-load mutual funds or individual stocks?
 Most here go for total market risk not individual stock risk.
  EDIT:
 OOPs! I see the OP posted in Jan, 2016, so I his -15%, but if he stayed
is say, VTSAX he's up 32% since his post.
 Hope he did.
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 02:02:47 PM by BTDretire »

Mr. Green

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #138 on: December 26, 2017, 04:55:10 PM »
Someone should put together a compilation thread of some of these market timing threads as a "WARNING! Read these examples before considering timing the market." There are some great examples of how emotions can kill a portfolio.

itchyfeet

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #139 on: December 26, 2017, 05:03:12 PM »
Someone should put together a compilation thread of some of these market timing threads as a "WARNING! Read these examples before considering timing the market." There are some great examples of how emotions can kill a portfolio.

And these are people selling during a raging bull market. Wait until the market turns bear and I am sure we will see masses of people selling after the market turns.

powskier

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #140 on: December 27, 2017, 12:21:18 AM »
Someone should put together a compilation thread of some of these market timing threads as a "WARNING! Read these examples before considering timing the market." There are some great examples of how emotions can kill a portfolio.

And these are people selling during a raging bull market. Wait until the market turns bear and I am sure we will see masses of people selling after the market turns.

Looking forward to that! Could use some discount buying.

BTDretire

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #141 on: December 27, 2017, 06:37:28 AM »
I'm going to sell when the top is in, we should have a thread about "the top is in!"  ;-)

Moonwaves

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #142 on: December 27, 2017, 06:41:01 AM »
Really interesting to read this and a good reminder that an emotional approach to investing is probably best avoided.

I've only recently started investing and am only investing a tiny amount in an ETF monthly savings plan. It freaked me out a lot when that ETF proceeded to go down in value what felt like every day* for the first six or seven months. But because I knew from MMM that these things happen, I just kept telling myself to stick with it. Even for my measly (now) €459, I found it really tough to not feel like I'd made a massive mistake. At 1 million, I would definitely have been freaking out. And this thread is a timely reminded that now that I've dipped my toes in the water again, I really need to sit down and draw up a proper investment plan for myself so that as I have (hopefully) more in invest in the next few years, I'll know exactly how I want to do that.

Hope the OP managed to stick with it but most of all that they managed to get out of their job. Getting out of a toxic work situation is life-changing!


*I don't purposely check it but I do generally log on to my current account most days and it's with the same bank and shown on the start page when I log in.

DavidAnnArbor

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #143 on: January 01, 2018, 07:51:06 AM »
Definitely fasten the seatbelts, it's always a bumpy ride up.

PizzaSteve

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Re: About to sell everything. Talk me off the ledge (or push me off) please!
« Reply #144 on: January 01, 2018, 09:46:58 AM »
Just checked and OP hasn't been active since Oct 2016, but the last investment related post I saw was the one where he said he wasn't going to sell.

We can hope for the best.
+1
Happy New Years Investors.  Speculators can fuss away their time on fruitless endeavours, while we can own our share of the global economy and ride the tides like calm, zen surfers.  When the waves come surf, when a crash happens, hop on the board and paddle back out, patiently waiting for the next wave.
« Last Edit: January 01, 2018, 09:51:25 AM by PizzaSteve »