Weeds in Landscaping Stones

[Mr. Freedom]

In my pre-DIY/FIRE-focused days, I paid for a pretty major overhaul of my landscaping about 6 or 7 years ago and went with landscaping stones in the areas where mulch was assuming it'd be much more maintenance-free over time with the weed barrier underneath the stones.  At this point now, there are quite a few areas where enough dirt has accumulated on top of the weed barrier or where the barrier separated and now I've got quite a weed problem.  Last year I did use the weed torch on a few areas and that is a temporary fix but also comes with the risk of singing actual landscaping plants and shrugs which it really does a number on them. 

A few weeks ago, I took down an ash tree that was in a landscaped stone area that had succumbed to the emerald ash borer infestation and then removed the stump which necessitated a clean up and restoration of the landscaping stones over that area.  I also went on to pull the stones back in a large strip area that had been overrun with weeds and replaced the weed barrier fabric underneath.  That was a lot of time and effort and I really don't want to do that throughout all of the areas. 

I'm just wondering if others have run into this and came up with any other creative solutions.  I've attached a sample picture of a problem area.  I have seen a video of someone using something called a hula hole in a pretty far gone landscaped stone area that looked like it never had a weed barrier underneath and it looks like it does a good job of quickly removing the weeds, but probably leaving a lot of the root system.  Again, I think a lot of these weeks have grown from dirt that accumulated on top of the weed barrier and they're not growing through it.  I'm just not sure if that would rip up the weed barrier underneath.  But I could see doing something that like that and then maybe using the weed torch on the debris to at least clean it up.  I've also heard there's some granules of some weed pre-emergent that could be sprinkled in the stone which  may prevent weeds from germinating and coming back.  Any input would be appreciated.

Thanks!

[gavint]

Hi there, what you've run up against is the hard fact that gravel beds are not actually low-maintenance. 

For exactly the reasons you stated below, accumulation of organic matter and whatnot, weeds will get in there and are a serious PIA to get out again.  You can go the old-school Duke-Nukem road and spray it all down with herbicide on a regular basis, but since it's the 21st century let's not do that.  Or you could painstakingly pick the weeds out by hand, moving the gravel around as you do, but that's tedious, so let's not do that either.

What you might consider is removing the landscape fabric entirely, and planting the areas up with a suitable perennial mix for the spot.  Nature hates a vacuum, and weeds will occupy empty spaces.  By planting the area up, you're shading the ground and outcompeting the weeds with desirable plants.  You could probably even leave the stones in there. 

Google the New Perennial Movement and Piet Oudolf online to get inspired, the new style is mixing compatible groups of perennials to simulate nature in a visually appealing way.  In the end it's super low-maintenance because it looks after itself, good for nature, and looks good too. 

       

[Mr. Freedom]

Thanks for these innovative ideas gavint.  Yes, if I'm going to do anymore significant pulling back on these stones I'd just as soon get rid of them I think.  I'll have to look more into this New Perennial Movement to see if this might be something worth pursuing further.

Thank you!

[Sibley]

Whatever you do, DON'T throw a layer of plastic down and add more stones. Seriously. I will hunt you down and make you dig all of it out if you do that.

I hate landscape rocks. There is 1 area of my yard which I'm letting rocks stay, and that's around the air conditioner. I've spent 3 years digging out rocks (I skipped last year). I give them away, I just want them out of my yard. I don't even know how many I've given away, they leave in truck bed sized piles and there's been at least 6 over the years. Probably more. And they keep appearing in the yard. It's like they're never ending.

[Mr. Freedom]

Yes, I certainly wish I had a do-over on this.  Costlier on the front end and becomes that tremendous PITA gavint mentioned in the out years.  I just went around with the weed torch just to clean them up a bit for now.  Can't help but singe some of the tips of the landscaping shrugs and plants, however.  I think what I'm looking at moving forward is intermittent weed torching, some pulling of weeds closer to shrubs and plants, some spot areas of replacing a small square of weed fabric where it's clear the original fabric has separated, and possibly getting that hula hoe thing to perhaps tear the weeds off of the top of the landscaping fabric moving it through the rocks in some of the harder to reach places.  The whole thing really sucks for sure.

Thank you!

[RetiredAt63]

Last house I had that around my swimming pool.  So many weeds.  And so hard to weed with all the little rocks in the way.  My sympathies, only suggestion is to remove it all and plant something low and tough.  Edible would be a nice plus.

[markbike528CBX]

PTF
I'm getting rock to replace the lawn.
Hopefully the drip irrigation will minimize the weed growth.

It is dry enough here that if you don't water, nothing much grows.

But yes, in areas that get water, dirt on top of the weed barrier grows fine weed crops.

[Green_Tea]

What you might consider is removing the landscape fabric entirely, and planting the areas up with a suitable perennial mix for the spot.  Nature hates a vacuum, and weeds will occupy empty spaces.  By planting the area up, you're shading the ground and outcompeting the weeds with desirable plants.  You could probably even leave the stones in there. 

I like this idea. You might even leave the landscape fabric and the stones and just seed or plant some plants and flowers that grow in very low nutrition, and (i assume) low humidity stone environments. Like in a stone wall. Just like the weeds, some pretty plants are specialized for and even thrive in this sort of environment. Some might even be beneficial to wildlife.

For reference: My parents have a tiny gravel patch next to the house and the rain rarely reaches it so there's even barly any weeds but still every year there's some very pretty white and pink flowers growing there (they self-seeded, I think it's alyssum), same for a stone wall at work (don't know the flower's name) which is very pretty.

[gavint]

@markbike528CBX good on you for ditching the lawn in an arid climate.  I visited Phoenix once, and laughed at all the boneheads there who painted the desert gravel in front of their houses green...   There were some very impressive gardens there too though, using plants native to the region.  In Phoenix that meant a lot of cacti, but in your region there's probably a lot of cool stuff you could plant that wouldn't need any irrigation at all.  There is likely a native plant grower in your region, they'd be able to help you find plants that'll work in your spot.  The idea is to work with nature, not fight it.  If you're doing a gravel bed, don't put fabric down underneath!  That'll allow the plants you put in to spread or self-seed.

Good luck with it!

[crazy jane]

Also PTF.
We are building a house and are going to diy the landscaping. Crossing rocks off of the list of options.

[markbike528CBX]

@markbike528CBX good on you for ditching the lawn in an arid climate.  I visited Phoenix once, and laughed at all the boneheads there who painted the desert gravel in front of their houses green...   There were some very impressive gardens there too though, using plants native to the region.  In Phoenix that meant a lot of cacti, but in your region there's probably a lot of cool stuff you could plant that wouldn't need any irrigation at all.  There is likely a native plant grower in your region, they'd be able to help you find plants that'll work in your spot.  The idea is to work with nature, not fight it.  If you're doing a gravel bed, don't put fabric down underneath!  That'll allow the plants you put in to spread or self-seed.

Good luck with it!

We are going with barrier fabric and rock because we are doing dryland trees.  We don't want plant spread.  The look is for flood basalt with trees, sort of like near Spokane Wshington, which is marginally wetter than here.
Thanks for the good wishes.

[TrMama]

I absolutely despise landscape fabric. It doesn't work worth anything past about year 3 and it's very difficult to remove cleanly without leaving a bunch of shredded plastic bits in the ground. The stuff is an environmental disaster. Only really tenacious weeds seem to grow through it, so you also end up selecting for the most difficult species in your area. Ditto all the recommendations to remove it and replace with something else. The only places I've seen rock landscaping work are very dry areas. Think Arizona and markbike528CBX's part of WA and BC. Basically if cactus is a native species, then rock landscaping can work. Although I think it still involves burying plastic sheets which gives me the heebie jeebies.

In areas where there's any kind of rain, you'll get organic matter falling from the sky. Over time this stuff decomposes and makes soil. Presto, now you have somewhere for weeds to grow.

If you want the look of bare areas interspersed with plants I've had good luck with laying sheets of plain cardboard or 4-5 sheets of newsprint and then covering it with a thick layer of mulch. The paper layer acts as landscape fabric to smother weeds and the mulch compacts and keeps them from growing over the long term. However, both layers compost into the ground so you either have to put down more mulch annually, or you have to redo both layers every 2-3 years. You also have to stay on top of the weeds that will grow on top of the mulch. However, the mulch should remain fairly loose so the weeds that do grow will be easy to pull.

[dougules]

Have you considered just taking it all up and reverting it back to just grass that you mow and weed-eat?  Honestly that seems like the least difficult option here where the humidity makes weeds fast-growing and aggressive. 

[BDWW]

I've found my people.  I absolutely hate landscape gravel/river rocks. It's a maintenance nightmare. 
I've literally hauled off a few tons of rocks and stones from our yard. Also, the soil here is incredibly rocky to begin with, so I definitely judge people who deem it necessary to haul in extra rocks.

Young, naive me thought this house/yard looks nice, without realizing the maintenance overhead. There's a reason mansions and estates employee full-time gardeners. Previous owners were retired, and must have spent most of their time caring for the yard.

/bit-bitter rant, oh well live and learn.