Author Topic: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards  (Read 6896 times)

arebelspy

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New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« on: March 12, 2019, 02:38:26 PM »
MODERATOR VOICE ON

Greetings, friends!

In today's political climate, discussions have become increasingly contentious, and this has affected people's enjoyment of the forums here.

The primary purpose of the MMM forums is for people to have a friendly chat and learn from others with similar values regarding money, waste, and Mustachianism in general.

Money is an often political topic, and we prefer to allow these sorts of discussions. However, it is a not infrequent occurrence for people to sign up for the forums solely to argue and troll political topics. This is not the purpose of these forums. If your only reason for being here is to discuss these sort of issues, there are better venues for you to inhabit.

Thus, we are instating a new policy: To post in off topic threads, or start an off topic conversation, you must have at least 100 posts elsewhere on the forums. We'd like you to participate in our community and be "on topic", in other words, before you go "off topic." If your only interest is not being on topic, why are you here in the MMM forums in the first place?

I apologize to those of you with <100 posts who have something you want to chime in with on these off topic forums. I encourage you to go and participate with the rest of the community and get to know us and what we're about here, and then you are more than welcome to go off topic once you have done so.

We hope this will help cut down on the trolls who sign up and immediately post controversial "opinions" merely to get a rise out of people.

Please PM me, or another mod, with any concerns.

Cheers!

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2019, 02:56:06 PM »
MODERATOR VOICE ON

Greetings, friends!

In today's political climate, discussions have become increasingly contentious, and this has affected people's enjoyment of the forums here.

The primary purpose of the MMM forums is for people to have a friendly chat and learn from others with similar values regarding money, waste, and Mustachianism in general.

Money is an often political topic, and we prefer to allow these sorts of discussions. However, it is a not infrequent occurrence for people to sign up for the forums solely to argue and troll political topics. This is not the purpose of these forums. If your only reason for being here is to discuss these sort of issues, there are better venues for you to inhabit.

Thus, we are instating a new policy: To post in off topic threads, or start an off topic conversation, you must have at least 100 posts elsewhere on the forums. We'd like you to participate in our community and be "on topic", in other words, before you go "off topic." If your only interest is not being on topic, why are you here in the MMM forums in the first place?

I apologize to those of you with <100 posts who have something you want to chime in with on these off topic forums. I encourage you to go and participate with the rest of the community and get to know us and what we're about here, and then you are more than welcome to go off topic once you have done so.

We hope this will help cut down on the trolls who sign up and immediately post controversial "opinions" merely to get a rise out of people.

Please PM me, or another mod, with any concerns.

Cheers!

That's a fair policy and something I should have considered a little harder before I weighed in on contentious issues. To those of you I have left hanging in the Off-Topics I apologize as my hands are tied at the moment.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2019, 03:56:31 PM »
+1 That is all.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2019, 06:00:06 PM »
Seems like a decent policy given the circumstances.

YummyRaisins

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2019, 07:14:41 PM »
Are there metrics on how long it takes a new user to reach 100 posts?

Not sure how big a problem it is, but a motivated troll could get 100 low-effort posts pretty quickly. Might be worth keeping an eye on that.

Buffalo Chip

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2019, 03:35:54 PM »
MODERATOR VOICE ON

Greetings, friends!

In today's political climate, discussions have become increasingly contentious, and this has affected people's enjoyment of the forums here.

The primary purpose of the MMM forums is for people to have a friendly chat and learn from others with similar values regarding money, waste, and Mustachianism in general.

Money is an often political topic, and we prefer to allow these sorts of discussions. However, it is a not infrequent occurrence for people to sign up for the forums solely to argue and troll political topics. This is not the purpose of these forums. If your only reason for being here is to discuss these sort of issues, there are better venues for you to inhabit.

Thus, we are instating a new policy: To post in off topic threads, or start an off topic conversation, you must have at least 100 posts elsewhere on the forums. We'd like you to participate in our community and be "on topic", in other words, before you go "off topic." If your only interest is not being on topic, why are you here in the MMM forums in the first place?

I apologize to those of you with <100 posts who have something you want to chime in with on these off topic forums. I encourage you to go and participate with the rest of the community and get to know us and what we're about here, and then you are more than welcome to go off topic once you have done so.

We hope this will help cut down on the trolls who sign up and immediately post controversial "opinions" merely to get a rise out of people.

Please PM me, or another mod, with any concerns.

Cheers!

Might I make a different suggestion?  Particularly since I'm not going to be able to post off topic for awhile?

Ban political threads.  Ban them with prejudice.  Ban partisan politics from this website like the obscenity that it is.

Pardon my noobness and my ignorance toward the finer points of mustachianism, but I was not attracted to MMM or this site because of the political views expressed. And I don't think I'm that unusual.  OK, maybe somewhat unusual, but not THAT unusual. 

I don't see the point of allowing political discussion and the discord it inevitably causes on a website that is about developing badassity, frugality, and a different way of looking at consumerism. I don't see the logical connection to partisan politics.  Perhaps I might go further and suggest that partisan politics is actually antithetical to mustachianism?  How is self-development enhanced by allowing discussion of partisan politics?   

But I fear I've not yet gone far enough.  I happen to have the good luck of being old enough to remember a time when ones political views and affiliation were considered private affairs, like ones sexuality.  You didn't discuss it in public because is was considered rude.  Perhaps we should go back to those times, and recognize that partisan politics has no place in polite, genteel discussion.  Perhaps we should take it one step further and condemn the expression of partisan political views in public as a character defect, evidence of an uncouth nature and poor upbringing.  Like loudly discussing one's nose-picking habits, or commenting on the aroma of flatulence.

In sum, I urge consideration of a different and frankly more badassed approach to partisan political discussion.  Let other non-mustachian forums take the partisan politics niche.   

Thank you for this forum and allowing for my rant. 

 

 

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2019, 03:59:00 PM »
Might I make a different suggestion?  Particularly since I'm not going to be able to post off topic for awhile?

Ban political threads.  Ban them with prejudice.  Ban partisan politics from this website like the obscenity that it is.

Pardon my noobness and my ignorance toward the finer points of mustachianism, but I was not attracted to MMM or this site because of the political views expressed. And I don't think I'm that unusual.  OK, maybe somewhat unusual, but not THAT unusual. 

I don't see the point of allowing political discussion and the discord it inevitably causes on a website that is about developing badassity, frugality, and a different way of looking at consumerism. I don't see the logical connection to partisan politics.  Perhaps I might go further and suggest that partisan politics is actually antithetical to mustachianism?  How is self-development enhanced by allowing discussion of partisan politics?   

But I fear I've not yet gone far enough.  I happen to have the good luck of being old enough to remember a time when ones political views and affiliation were considered private affairs, like ones sexuality.  You didn't discuss it in public because is was considered rude.  Perhaps we should go back to those times, and recognize that partisan politics has no place in polite, genteel discussion.  Perhaps we should take it one step further and condemn the expression of partisan political views in public as a character defect, evidence of an uncouth nature and poor upbringing.  Like loudly discussing one's nose-picking habits, or commenting on the aroma of flatulence.

In sum, I urge consideration of a different and frankly more badassed approach to partisan political discussion.  Let other non-mustachian forums take the partisan politics niche.   

Thank you for this forum and allowing for my rant.   
hello Buffalo Chip, and welcome to the forums.

I'll respectfully give a contrarian opinion:

While political threads do often get messy, and some users (who inevitably get the eventual boot) resort to rule breaking and trolling, I'd disagree that political subjects have nothing to do with mustachianism, nor should we strive for a society (virtual or otherwise) where people cannot share and debate their political views. Personally I have learned a great deal through these lively debates about how others view the world, and a few times it has even changed my own opinions. I've found it particularly useful to learn how citizens of other countries view the role of government, social services and taxes.

A core tenant of 'mustachianism' is reducing your environmental impact.  Another is saving enough to live passively off of investment (or real-estate) income.  Both of these are acutely influenced by laws and regulations. To me it only makes sense to have threads on environmental policy, monetary policy and government entitlement programs. One of the biggest concerns among the FIRE crowd is access to affordable healthcare, which naturally opens up discussions about the ACA for people living in the US.

I understand that in many regions and with some generations it is considered 'impolite' to discuss politics at all.  That view is not universal, and as a very international community we have members who come from countries where talking about politics in mixed company is as commonplace as people in the US might talk about the latest big sporting event.  As long as we have governments we will have laws, and I think an honorable goal is for us to strive for ways to be able to talk - in civil tones - about these important topics.

just my 2
~nereo~

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2019, 04:04:12 PM »
+1 to what Nereo said. I don't often participate in political threads because I don't care to get into debates myself, but I really enjoy reading them. Also, even when Mustachians disagree about a political point, we have core shared understandings about other ways we see the world. That means that sometimes my fellow Mustachians of contrarian political leanings can better explain to me why they believe a certain way, even if it doesn't change my mind about what I believe. This is so helpful in a divided society where most of the people I interact with agree with me politically.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2019, 04:04:25 PM »
In ars's post that you quoted, he said "Money is an often political topic, and we prefer to allow these sorts of discussions."

So no, politics will not be banned. The below sounds like one of the divisive posts from people without a stake in the community that they're trying to cut down on.

Quote
But I fear I've not yet gone far enough.  I happen to have the good luck of being old enough to remember a time when ones political views and affiliation were considered private affairs, like ones sexuality.  You didn't discuss it in public because is was considered rude.  Perhaps we should go back to those times, and recognize that partisan politics has no place in polite, genteel discussion.  Perhaps we should take it one step further and condemn the expression of partisan political views in public as a character defect, evidence of an uncouth nature and poor upbringing. Like loudly discussing one's nose-picking habits, or commenting on the aroma of flatulence.

I would like to point out forum rule #1, which is don't be a jerk.

#2, attack the argument, not the person.
#4, be respectful of the site and other members.

You are already breaking forum rules with the above. You are being rude to many posters in your attempt to make the site more genteel.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2019, 04:09:40 PM »
In ars's post that you quoted, he said "Money is an often political topic, and we prefer to allow these sorts of discussions."

So no, politics will not be banned. The below sounds like one of the divisive posts from people without a stake in the community that they're trying to cut down on.

Quote
But I fear I've not yet gone far enough.  I happen to have the good luck of being old enough to remember a time when ones political views and affiliation were considered private affairs, like ones sexuality.  You didn't discuss it in public because is was considered rude.  Perhaps we should go back to those times, and recognize that partisan politics has no place in polite, genteel discussion.  Perhaps we should take it one step further and condemn the expression of partisan political views in public as a character defect, evidence of an uncouth nature and poor upbringing. Like loudly discussing one's nose-picking habits, or commenting on the aroma of flatulence.

I would like to point out forum rule #1, which is don't be a jerk.

#2, attack the argument, not the person.
#4, be respectful of the site and other members.

You are already breaking forum rules with the above. You are being rude to many posters in your attempt to make the site more genteel.


Great call out. By the way, I would argue that only the privileged class was so fortunate as to hold their politics as a private affair, so this "genteel time" you're remembering probably never existed for a lot of people.

Buffalo Chip

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2019, 04:44:48 PM »
In ars's post that you quoted, he said "Money is an often political topic, and we prefer to allow these sorts of discussions."

So no, politics will not be banned. The below sounds like one of the divisive posts from people without a stake in the community that they're trying to cut down on.

Quote
But I fear I've not yet gone far enough.  I happen to have the good luck of being old enough to remember a time when ones political views and affiliation were considered private affairs, like ones sexuality.  You didn't discuss it in public because is was considered rude.  Perhaps we should go back to those times, and recognize that partisan politics has no place in polite, genteel discussion.  Perhaps we should take it one step further and condemn the expression of partisan political views in public as a character defect, evidence of an uncouth nature and poor upbringing. Like loudly discussing one's nose-picking habits, or commenting on the aroma of flatulence.

I would like to point out forum rule #1, which is don't be a jerk.

#2, attack the argument, not the person.
#4, be respectful of the site and other members.

You are already breaking forum rules with the above. You are being rude to many posters in your attempt to make the site more genteel.

My apologies.  I'm used to a frisky level of discourse and no rudeness, insult, or disrespect was intended. This is obviously a subject I'm passionate about.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2019, 05:34:19 PM »

My apologies.  I'm used to a frisky level of discourse and no rudeness, insult, or disrespect was intended. This is obviously a subject I'm passionate about.

I'm glad you shared your opinion, even if we disagreed.  There are other financially minded forums which do not allow any political discussions, and I think they are poorer because of it.  One (with a lot of member crossover) even goes so far as to prohibit discussion about  political candidates' tax policies. To me that doesn't make any sense, but that's the route they have taken to prevent discord and to me the entire forum feels much more sterile, which I attribute in part to that policy.

I do think the moderators do a good job here allowing as much discussion as possible and a range of opinions, but certainly many threads get out of hand and warnings are handed out and threads get locked.  I encourage fellow members to use the "if you see something, say something" approach - if a member is breaking a rule, call them out on it, preferably in a respectful and helpful manner (e.g. "hey, let's avoid all personal attacks and stick to the forum rules".  And if something is truly out of line click the "report to moderator" button.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2019, 06:10:44 PM »
Great policy.

arebelspy

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2019, 06:56:21 PM »
Buffalo Chip, I'm with you.

I'd ban the * outta it, if I thought it was feasible and would lead to a better forum.

Not because I don't think it's interesting (I love politics), but because I don't think it belongs here, specifically because it brings too much toxicity.

HOWEVER, so many money topics automatically turn political because they are, by their nature political. Taxes. Health care. Types of retirement savings accounts. The list goes on.

There are financial forums that ban political topics. I believe both Bogleheads and E-R.org do so. The problem with this is twofold:
1) Their moderation becomes arbitrary. They allow topics to a certain point, then decide they've become political and ban people. It's not fair to those individuals who don't have clear-cut rules.
2) It leads to very heavy handed moderation, out of necessity. Many bannings occur. Many users get upset, it's more work, it's just a big cluster * the other way, if you do ban it.

And that's where I don't think it'd lead to the better forum. More heavy handed moderation, instead of treating people like the adults they are, would not be as fun of a place for anyone to visit.

Ultimately, I'd love to be able to not have politics here, or, even better, have it but have it be non-toxic. Unfortunately, that's not the world we're living in, right now.

So the best compromise we (the people running the forums) have is to have rules around how you argue. Don't be a jerk, for example.

We expect people to act like adults. Mature, not petty. To debate in good faith, using reason and facts. To be willing to change their mind, if presented with new evidence.

Anyone can have whatever opinion they want, if they can calmly present it and add thoughtful, provoking comments to the discussion.

And if people can't play nice, and act like the mature grown ups, then it doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum they lie, they don't belong here.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
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Buffalo Chip

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #14 on: March 27, 2019, 07:56:09 PM »
Buffalo Chip, I'm with you.

I'd ban the * outta it, if I thought it was feasible and would lead to a better forum.

Not because I don't think it's interesting (I love politics), but because I don't think it belongs here, specifically because it brings too much toxicity.

HOWEVER, so many money topics automatically turn political because they are, by their nature political. Taxes. Health care. Types of retirement savings accounts. The list goes on.

There are financial forums that ban political topics. I believe both Bogleheads and E-R.org do so. The problem with this is twofold:
1) Their moderation becomes arbitrary. They allow topics to a certain point, then decide they've become political and ban people. It's not fair to those individuals who don't have clear-cut rules.
2) It leads to very heavy handed moderation, out of necessity. Many bannings occur. Many users get upset, it's more work, it's just a big cluster * the other way, if you do ban it.

And that's where I don't think it'd lead to the better forum. More heavy handed moderation, instead of treating people like the adults they are, would not be as fun of a place for anyone to visit.

Ultimately, I'd love to be able to not have politics here, or, even better, have it but have it be non-toxic. Unfortunately, that's not the world we're living in, right now.

So the best compromise we (the people running the forums) have is to have rules around how you argue. Don't be a jerk, for example.

We expect people to act like adults. Mature, not petty. To debate in good faith, using reason and facts. To be willing to change their mind, if presented with new evidence.

Anyone can have whatever opinion they want, if they can calmly present it and add thoughtful, provoking comments to the discussion.

And if people can't play nice, and act like the mature grown ups, then it doesn't matter what side of the political spectrum they lie, they don't belong here.

Thanks for the detailed and reasoned reply as well as your efforts as mod. An underrated and unappreciated job. And its impossible to make everyone happy. 

I think we're getting to the same place, but by different means in recognizing the toxic potential of political discussion and its destructive impact. Where we differ I think is that I view that toxicity as not an aberration, but part of the inherent nature of politics. Who knows?  Maybe I should be an accountability coach for those who are repelled by politics and want it out of their lives?

In any case, I've had my say.  Thanks again for the reply and the forum. 

 

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2019, 04:52:21 PM »
Well, guess I need to post more to get to 100. :)

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2019, 02:14:21 AM »
I tend to lurk unless I really feel like adding my comments is important. With that said, the majority of my posts so far have been in political discussions in the off-topic section. Does this 100 post requirement mean that I should start commenting here on the forums the same way I might in a casual conversation, since 100 high-quality posts is unlikely from a lurker like me?

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2019, 04:39:08 AM »
I tend to lurk unless I really feel like adding my comments is important. With that said, the majority of my posts so far have been in political discussions in the off-topic section. Does this 100 post requirement mean that I should start commenting here on the forums the same way I might in a casual conversation, since 100 high-quality posts is unlikely from a lurker like me?

What's preventing you from contributing to conversations on the main forum?

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2019, 05:09:50 AM »
Poor @spartana , she never seems to be able to reach 100 posts.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2019, 10:03:39 AM »
Poor @spartana , she never seems to be able to reach 100 posts.

I dont know why she never crosses 17 posts ;-)

Anyway, she is too nice to get involved in the nasty political fights.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2019, 11:18:58 AM »
Poor @spartana , she never seems to be able to reach 100 posts.

I dont know why she never crosses 17 posts ;-)

Anyway, she is too nice to get involved in the nasty political fights.

We need a new level for posters like @spartanta.  Maybe based on total number of posts deleted.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2019, 02:25:41 PM »
Poor @spartana , she never seems to be able to reach 100 posts.

I dont know why she never crosses 17 posts ;-)

Anyway, she is too nice to get involved in the nasty political fights.


We need a new level for posters like @spartanta.  Maybe based on total number of posts deleted.
haha! Yeah that spartana is a bit crazy or fickle or just gets embarrassed by stuff she posts ( urrggghhh someone is reading weird stuff I wrote urrggghhh). Although I doubt I could compete with the large number of huge journals that have been deleted.

BTW thanks @CowboyAndIndian I try to be (semi?) civil but having less than 100 posts now does work wonders for keeping my occasional rants in the off topic forum in check.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 05:56:42 PM by spartana »

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2019, 12:43:39 AM »
What's preventing you from contributing to conversations on the main forum?

There's no stop from the forum itself, it is mostly personal reasons. A forum thread is kind of like a conversation happening on a stage, and most of the time I feel like a simple "I agree with that" or "That surprises me" would be inappropriate. The closest parallel I can think of is an audience member inserting themselves into a panel discussion. If there's something really good to contribute, the interruption is welcome. I don't usually have something high-quality enough to warrant that.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2019, 08:09:54 AM »
What's preventing you from contributing to conversations on the main forum?

There's no stop from the forum itself, it is mostly personal reasons. A forum thread is kind of like a conversation happening on a stage, and most of the time I feel like a simple "I agree with that" or "That surprises me" would be inappropriate. The closest parallel I can think of is an audience member inserting themselves into a panel discussion. If there's something really good to contribute, the interruption is welcome. I don't usually have something high-quality enough to warrant that.
I agree with that. ;-)

I think the net effect is a positive one.  You filter out a lot of chaff but there will be some "innocent" casualties via the limitation.  But again, read ARS' well-crafted notice at the top of this thread - you must be on-topic for a bit first to more or less qualify your off-topic credential.  If the limit was over my own number and constrained where I could post I still couldn't disagree with the intent of the rule.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #24 on: April 30, 2019, 06:05:03 AM »
Yeah, 50 might have been a better number, now I need to go make 25 dumb posts somewhere just to continue a conversation!


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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2019, 06:07:26 AM »
Or is there a way to base it on time in the forum, rather than number of posts?  Seems like that would be more effective.  A troll could easily just make 100 posts just to get around this restriction.

arebelspy

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #26 on: April 30, 2019, 07:27:10 AM »
Yeah, 50 might have been a better number, now I need to go make 25 dumb posts somewhere just to continue a conversation!

The policy has been in effect for a month and a half--if you just now realized that, clearly it wasn't a super active conversation. It can probably wait until you get 20 more posts, whenever that is. :)

Or is there a way to base it on time in the forum, rather than number of posts?  Seems like that would be more effective.  A troll could easily just make 100 posts just to get around this restriction.

That's a great idea, and would be a much better and more effective solution. Unfortunately there is no way to make membergroups or permissions based on registration age.

What we have is a poor solution, but better than the previous situation.
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nereo

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #27 on: April 30, 2019, 07:47:49 AM »
Yeah, 50 might have been a better number, now I need to go make 25 dumb posts somewhere just to continue a conversation!
Or is there a way to base it on time in the forum, rather than number of posts?  Seems like that would be more effective.  A troll could easily just make 100 posts just to get around this restriction.
...Or you could make 25 thoughtful, quality posts in the main subforums, thereby supporting the development of this community :-)

There's no 100% foolproof way of thrwarting trolls, but it's pretty easy to spot a poster who has made 100 on-topic posts in a very short time period, most of which are simply saying "+1" to other posters.  On the other hand, if there's a poster who's been around for years but rarely participates, how is s/he really contributing to the underlying community?

SaucyAussie

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #28 on: April 30, 2019, 07:50:54 AM »
Agreed.

Maybe a journal is where it's at, I see people can rack up tons of posts talking about themselves! :)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2019, 07:53:32 AM by SaucyAussie »

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #29 on: April 30, 2019, 08:00:34 PM »
Looks like you made it in under a day.
We are two former teachers who accumulated a bunch of real estate, retired at 29, spent some time traveling the world full time and are now settled with two kids.
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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2019, 05:13:28 AM »
I think topics such as personal finance, frugality, tax mitigation etc are inherently political, so I'd agree that banning political discourse is going to be untenable on a site dedicated to personal finance.

I think this forum has some great political discussion and, while spirited, almost always in good spirit. I've rarely come across a forum that has such diplomatic posting. Partly it's the forum rules and partly it's the make-up of the forum.

The only ban I would support is a ban on certain types of non-financial politics - e.g. racial discussion. I find those get very toxic very quickly.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2019, 02:38:36 PM »
I read all the thread and then Bloop Bloop said about when I was going to say.

How can you ban political discussion when almost everything is political.

 Healthcare, Obamacare :-o, God forbid you say anything pro Trump, even if
it was leading the liberal agenda before Trump. Taxes, Taxes on investments,
Social security, minimum wage, maximum wage, the homeless, garbage collection, banking,
social status.
 Politics is so involved in most peoples lives it would be silly to ban it, even if you could define it.

 Heck, you having a Million Dollars would be political to some people!

happypigday

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2019, 02:56:36 PM »

Might I make a different suggestion?  Particularly since I'm not going to be able to post off topic for awhile?

Ban political threads.  Ban them with prejudice.  Ban partisan politics from this website like the obscenity that it is.

Pardon my noobness and my ignorance toward the finer points of mustachianism, but I was not attracted to MMM or this site because of the political views expressed. And I don't think I'm that unusual.  OK, maybe somewhat unusual, but not THAT unusual. 

I don't see the point of allowing political discussion and the discord it inevitably causes on a website that is about developing badassity, frugality, and a different way of looking at consumerism. I don't see the logical connection to partisan politics.  Perhaps I might go further and suggest that partisan politics is actually antithetical to mustachianism?  How is self-development enhanced by allowing discussion of partisan politics?   

But I fear I've not yet gone far enough.  I happen to have the good luck of being old enough to remember a time when ones political views and affiliation were considered private affairs, like ones sexuality.  You didn't discuss it in public because is was considered rude.  Perhaps we should go back to those times, and recognize that partisan politics has no place in polite, genteel discussion.  Perhaps we should take it one step further and condemn the expression of partisan political views in public as a character defect, evidence of an uncouth nature and poor upbringing.  Like loudly discussing one's nose-picking habits, or commenting on the aroma of flatulence.

In sum, I urge consideration of a different and frankly more badassed approach to partisan political discussion.  Let other non-mustachian forums take the partisan politics niche.   

Thank you for this forum and allowing for my rant. 


+1 for the policy, great idea.  I was confused there for a while but now it all makes sense.

I think having a specific place to talk partisan politics is better than having no place and then having it seep into everything.  I agree that there isn't a clear relationship between Mustachianism and partisan politics (at least here in the United States).  Frugality and responsibility are usually considered conservative values and the Republicans have claimed conservatism (both small and big c) while things like climate change and paying taxes are usually considered liberal values claimed by the Dems.  It's the mix of values that is attractive to me and the fact that MMM forums have attracted a group of people who believe in certain core values but who surely represent both parties is even more interesting.

The reason that partisan politics was never discussed in polite company was that it has never been a life or death issue for the American upper class.  People who are completely safe regardless of who is in power don't need to talk politics because it cannot touch them.  Caring about politics, then, is a sign that you are not wealthy enough to not-care or that you have some other disability (wrong race, wrong religion, etc.) that could make you vulnerable to politics.  Caring about politics reveals this vulnerability.  That is why it is declasse.

People who are targeted by politics talk politics all the time, and they always have.  (I mean, if it's 1937 and some people are Klan members and others are not, you don't necessarily need to discuss it.  But if you are targeted by the Klan for daring to open a small business, it is something you need to discuss.)

I agree, though, that privacy has its charms and those charms are being quickly forgotten.  I cannot lead the way in this area, but I can definitely learn from others.

nereo

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2019, 03:14:24 PM »
[snip]
...  Frugality and responsibility are usually considered conservative values and the Republicans have claimed conservatism (both small and big c) while things like climate change and paying taxes are usually considered liberal values claimed by the Dems. 

Uh... what?

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #34 on: July 23, 2019, 03:45:14 PM »
[snip]
...  Frugality and responsibility are usually considered conservative values and the Republicans have claimed conservatism (both small and big c) while things like climate change and paying taxes are usually considered liberal values claimed by the Dems. 

Uh... what?

Basically if I declare myself Republican the physical laws of the universe are suspended and I don't have to pay tax :D

efree

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #35 on: September 07, 2019, 02:45:09 AM »
What's preventing you from contributing to conversations on the main forum?

There's no stop from the forum itself, it is mostly personal reasons. A forum thread is kind of like a conversation happening on a stage, and most of the time I feel like a simple "I agree with that" or "That surprises me" would be inappropriate. The closest parallel I can think of is an audience member inserting themselves into a panel discussion. If there's something really good to contribute, the interruption is welcome. I don't usually have something high-quality enough to warrant that.

I feel the same. I've been registered for a while but I don't have much to contribute, partly because I don't live in the US. I did want to contribute to a thread about foreign languages in the off-topic section and was perplexed that I was not allowed to. I don't like making meaningless posts so I suspect it's going to take me a while to get to 100.

Dicey

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #36 on: September 07, 2019, 06:32:57 AM »
What's preventing you from contributing to conversations on the main forum?

There's no stop from the forum itself, it is mostly personal reasons. A forum thread is kind of like a conversation happening on a stage, and most of the time I feel like a simple "I agree with that" or "That surprises me" would be inappropriate. The closest parallel I can think of is an audience member inserting themselves into a panel discussion. If there's something really good to contribute, the interruption is welcome. I don't usually have something high-quality enough to warrant that.

I feel the same. I've been registered for a while but I don't have much to contribute, partly because I don't live in the US. I did want to contribute to a thread about foreign languages in the off-topic section and was perplexed that I was not allowed to. I don't like making meaningless posts so I suspect it's going to take me a while to get to 100.
@efree and @DHMO: You can always follow the celebrations threads and congratulate people that are achieving their goals. I love the "Race to 10k" thread and the Cohorts. Your words would be the opposite of meaningless. A little kindness goes a long way.

If that doesn't float your boat, there are threads about what you didn't buy today, or what are you lusting after or what you're making for dinner. There's a place to brag about your high-mileage vehicle, places to gently mock coworkers/neighbors/relatives who just don't "get it" or even one about unethical ways to save money, which is mostly tongue in cheek. There is a thread dedicated to epic FU Money stories and another to Inheritance Drama.

These are conversations in which we endeavor to help each other. They are not panel discussions. I politely call BS on the "I have nothing to contribute" excuse. Put a little effort into it and the results will surprise you.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #37 on: September 07, 2019, 07:24:06 AM »
I fully support this change.  Thank you to the moderators for making this happen!

I'm with Buffalo Chip, and think politics should be banned (or at least shamed) completely.  But I also understand the logistical and arbitrary nature of making that happen.

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #38 on: September 07, 2019, 07:43:15 PM »
What's preventing you from contributing to conversations on the main forum?

There's no stop from the forum itself, it is mostly personal reasons. A forum thread is kind of like a conversation happening on a stage, and most of the time I feel like a simple "I agree with that" or "That surprises me" would be inappropriate. The closest parallel I can think of is an audience member inserting themselves into a panel discussion. If there's something really good to contribute, the interruption is welcome. I don't usually have something high-quality enough to warrant that.

I feel the same. I've been registered for a while but I don't have much to contribute, partly because I don't live in the US. I did want to contribute to a thread about foreign languages in the off-topic section and was perplexed that I was not allowed to. I don't like making meaningless posts so I suspect it's going to take me a while to get to 100.

Yep--not wasting everyone's time with pointless posts that don't contribute anything, and apparently that means I can't contribute to a discussion about movies.  Well done, I guess?  The whole 'well, this has been in place for a month' doesn't mean a whole lot since it's been six(?) months since I've gone to see a movie and haven't had anything particular to contribue in that area prior to now.  If politics are the problem, why not create a 'politics' subforum and lock people out of that instead of literally everything 'off topic'?

efree

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #39 on: September 08, 2019, 10:20:44 AM »
You can always follow the celebrations threads and congratulate people that are achieving their goals. I love the "Race to 10k" thread and the Cohorts. Your words would be the opposite of meaningless. A little kindness goes a long way.

If that doesn't float your boat, there are threads about what you didn't buy today, or what are you lusting after or what you're making for dinner. There's a place to brag about your high-mileage vehicle, places to gently mock coworkers/neighbors/relatives who just don't "get it" or even one about unethical ways to save money, which is mostly tongue in cheek. There is a thread dedicated to epic FU Money stories and another to Inheritance Drama.

These are conversations in which we endeavor to help each other. They are not panel discussions. I politely call BS on the "I have nothing to contribute" excuse. Put a little effort into it and the results will surprise you.
What effort are you talking about? Posting more? If I had a goal to make 100 posts a month, I'm sure I could achieve it (well, maybe) but I don't have such a goal and I see no reason to have such a goal (or similar). I want to post when I feel like posting. I like to help people and to educate people but there's not much opportunity for me because, as I said, I'm not from the US. I'm from a rather poor country, one of the Baltic states, and I don't have any outrageous stories to share. I mean, I've read some of the threads you mentioned and I would have participated if I had had anything to add.

I'm not exactly complaining, posting in the off-topic section isn't that big of a deal for me. I'm just letting whoever may read this know that there are some people who like to post little and who don't want to change their posting style for such an arbitrary reason.

Dicey

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #40 on: September 08, 2019, 10:42:58 AM »
You can always follow the celebrations threads and congratulate people that are achieving their goals. I love the "Race to 10k" thread and the Cohorts. Your words would be the opposite of meaningless. A little kindness goes a long way.

If that doesn't float your boat, there are threads about what you didn't buy today, or what are you lusting after or what you're making for dinner. There's a place to brag about your high-mileage vehicle, places to gently mock coworkers/neighbors/relatives who just don't "get it" or even one about unethical ways to save money, which is mostly tongue in cheek. There is a thread dedicated to epic FU Money stories and another to Inheritance Drama.

These are conversations in which we endeavor to help each other. They are not panel discussions. I politely call BS on the "I have nothing to contribute" excuse. Put a little effort into it and the results will surprise you.
What effort are you talking about? Posting more? If I had a goal to make 100 posts a month, I'm sure I could achieve it (well, maybe) but I don't have such a goal and I see no reason to have such a goal (or similar). I want to post when I feel like posting. I like to help people and to educate people but there's not much opportunity for me because, as I said, I'm not from the US. I'm from a rather poor country, one of the Baltic states, and I don't have any outrageous stories to share. I mean, I've read some of the threads you mentioned and I would have participated if I had had anything to add.

I'm not exactly complaining, posting in the off-topic section isn't that big of a deal for me. I'm just letting whoever may read this know that there are some people who like to post little and who don't want to change their posting style for such an arbitrary reason.
If I understand you correctly, you want to come here to learn from others, but you don't feel you have anything to contribute, nor do you wish to. And you apparently have no interest in supporting or encouraging anyone else. I think that's kind of sad, and believe you are selling yourself short.

A forum is, "a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged."

If you do not wish to be a participant in an exchange of ideas and views, then you have scant room to complain about anything. But thanks for offering your opinion about the way things should be.

Best of luck to you in your journey.


efree

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #41 on: September 09, 2019, 01:06:29 AM »
No, Dicey, you have misunderstood me. I do wish to contribute, I have been doing so and plan to keep doing so. I didn't get to 48 posts by posting nothing and I never said I don't have anything to contribute, I said I don't have "much" to contribute. I don't know why you feel like it's the same thing, I don't think it's the same thing at all.

I also don't get why you think posting more is better than posting less. Isn't anyone free to use this forum how they wish? I'm sure there are thousands of lurkers who haven't made a single post. Why would that be sad or something to discourage?

Dicey

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #42 on: September 14, 2019, 10:47:48 PM »
No, Dicey, you have misunderstood me. I do wish to contribute, I have been doing so and plan to keep doing so. I didn't get to 48 posts by posting nothing and I never said I don't have anything to contribute, I said I don't have "much" to contribute. I don't know why you feel like it's the same thing, I don't think it's the same thing at all.

I also don't get why you think posting more is better than posting less. Isn't anyone free to use this forum how they wish? I'm sure there are thousands of lurkers who haven't made a single post. Why would that be sad or something to discourage?

"I don't like making meaningless posts so I suspect it's going to take me a while to get to 100."

As I suggested upthread, congratulating or encouraging others is far from meaningless.

To answer your questions in bold, you and DHMO originally seemed to be complaining about the way the forum is set up. I merely offered you suggestions to get past the hurdles. You seem to want total access in exchange for...very little. Sure, you can absolutely lurk as much as you want, but you haven't earned the cred to complain about the way things are run here, in my opinion. I gave you friendly suggestions, and you say I've misunderstood you. Shall we politely agree to disagree?

efree

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #43 on: September 21, 2019, 06:28:55 AM »
No, Dicey, you have misunderstood me. I do wish to contribute, I have been doing so and plan to keep doing so. I didn't get to 48 posts by posting nothing and I never said I don't have anything to contribute, I said I don't have "much" to contribute. I don't know why you feel like it's the same thing, I don't think it's the same thing at all.

I also don't get why you think posting more is better than posting less. Isn't anyone free to use this forum how they wish? I'm sure there are thousands of lurkers who haven't made a single post. Why would that be sad or something to discourage?

"I don't like making meaningless posts so I suspect it's going to take me a while to get to 100."

As I suggested upthread, congratulating or encouraging others is far from meaningless.

To answer your questions in bold, you and DHMO originally seemed to be complaining about the way the forum is set up. I merely offered you suggestions to get past the hurdles. You seem to want total access in exchange for...very little. Sure, you can absolutely lurk as much as you want, but you haven't earned the cred to complain about the way things are run here, in my opinion. I gave you friendly suggestions, and you say I've misunderstood you. Shall we politely agree to disagree?
I was just providing information for the moderators. I had the impression that they thought getting 100 posts was no big deal so I decided to offer my opinion. You can see this as complaining if you want, but I know I'm a new poster and I wouldn't presume to come here and tell you how to run things. I was just offering my perspective for what it's worth because I think (for the mods) it's better to have more information than less information. I don't get what's so controversial about it that we have to argue about it.

nereo

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #44 on: September 22, 2019, 01:13:58 PM »
I was just providing information for the moderators. I had the impression that they thought getting 100 posts was no big deal so I decided to offer my opinion. You can see this as complaining if you want, but I know I'm a new poster and I wouldn't presume to come here and tell you how to run things. I was just offering my perspective for what it's worth because I think (for the mods) it's better to have more information than less information. I don't get what's so controversial about it that we have to argue about it.

If you want to give you input to the moderators it's best to PM them directly, or to tag one in your response.  Otherwise, there's a below average chance that any moderator will read what you've written.  There's only a handful of moderators and thousands of responses posted daily

Cheers
~n~

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Re: New: 100+ Posts to Post in "Off Topic" Boards
« Reply #45 on: October 09, 2019, 08:53:10 AM »
:(

I guess I need to work on my post count so I can comment on the upcoming Canadian election.  At my current pace of 0.009 posts per day this while take a while!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 08:54:46 AM by Maverick1 »