Author Topic: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?  (Read 6214 times)

dougules

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Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« on: January 22, 2020, 02:57:34 PM »
Is it just my perception, or has there been a recent rise in necroposts?  If it's not just my perception, does anybody have any guesses on the driving factor?

Frankies Girl

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2020, 03:06:35 PM »
Spam.

It's 99% of the time a spammer bumping an old thread that has either related subject to their spammy spam or else they try to sneak into an older, longer thread and tag it with their garbage in the hopes it gets by unnoticed.

Most of them are keyword/seo garbage companies.

It is a personal peeve of mine that the necro threads are not sent back to the grave after the spam is removed, by deleting the unintended legitimate responses after the spam is deleted. Most every time, there are 2+ people that do not look at ANY of the dates or read other responses but just chip in their 2 despite the fact that the OP may not have been on the forum for YEARS, or the issue was resolved/so old as to be pointless to add any further comments.


dougules

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2020, 03:11:00 PM »
I've been fooled or nearly fooled a few times lately.  It's not something you're going to think about generally.

Has there been a recent uptick, or is it just that I'm now paying attention to it more?

Frankies Girl

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2020, 03:18:36 PM »
I personally tagged at least 4+ spammers last night/wee hours this morning here.

I moderate (admin level) a popular forum elsewhere and we are getting slammed every day or so with garbage black hat seo out of Asia. We have askemet and a small amount just weasels around it using VPN/proxy servers and as long as folks can create throwaway emails. they'll be spammers. I can't even imagine how much of a pain the behind the scenes stuff is for this forum. ;)

Would be super if links/keywords could be blocked for a time/minimum post count, but like you said most folks don't think about spammers sneaking their garbage into their posts if they can form basic sentences and stick to the subject. It's always been around, but they are definitely increasing their stealth/sneak spam in the last year as far as I've noticed.

TVRodriguez

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2020, 03:20:55 PM »
Spam.

It's 99% of the time a spammer bumping an old thread that has either related subject to their spammy spam or else they try to sneak into an older, longer thread and tag it with their garbage in the hopes it gets by unnoticed.

Most of them are keyword/seo garbage companies.

It is a personal peeve of mine that the necro threads are not sent back to the grave after the spam is removed, by deleting the unintended legitimate responses after the spam is deleted. Most every time, there are 2+ people that do not look at ANY of the dates or read other responses but just chip in their 2 despite the fact that the OP may not have been on the forum for YEARS, or the issue was resolved/so old as to be pointless to add any further comments.

I'm going to disagree with you on this.  I mean, I don't disagree that it's your pet peeve, but I disagree that it's pointless to continue comments.  In fact, I think it's point-full (okay, I know that's not a word), or rather, useful, to those who were not around when the original discussion was posted.  Lots of subjects are timeless and lots of newer folks might benefit from a discussion and thoughtful comments, even if they are 4 years old.  I think, for the most part, people can either avoid the spammer's links.  It certainly is helpful if the spammer gets blocked and their content removed, but in general reviving old posts is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO.

dougules

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 10:12:01 AM »
Spam.

It's 99% of the time a spammer bumping an old thread that has either related subject to their spammy spam or else they try to sneak into an older, longer thread and tag it with their garbage in the hopes it gets by unnoticed.

Most of them are keyword/seo garbage companies.

It is a personal peeve of mine that the necro threads are not sent back to the grave after the spam is removed, by deleting the unintended legitimate responses after the spam is deleted. Most every time, there are 2+ people that do not look at ANY of the dates or read other responses but just chip in their 2 despite the fact that the OP may not have been on the forum for YEARS, or the issue was resolved/so old as to be pointless to add any further comments.

I'm going to disagree with you on this.  I mean, I don't disagree that it's your pet peeve, but I disagree that it's pointless to continue comments.  In fact, I think it's point-full (okay, I know that's not a word), or rather, useful, to those who were not around when the original discussion was posted.  Lots of subjects are timeless and lots of newer folks might benefit from a discussion and thoughtful comments, even if they are 4 years old.  I think, for the most part, people can either avoid the spammer's links.  It certainly is helpful if the spammer gets blocked and their content removed, but in general reviving old posts is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO.

I think there is value in legitimate necroposts on recurring general topics, too.  That's basically what the sticky posts are.  It doesn't make sense to rehash things that were discussed a year or two ago, and it keeps info less scattered. 

Necroposts are a good tool for spammers and trolls, though. 

nereo

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 10:16:40 AM »
Spam.

It's 99% of the time a spammer bumping an old thread that has either related subject to their spammy spam or else they try to sneak into an older, longer thread and tag it with their garbage in the hopes it gets by unnoticed.

Most of them are keyword/seo garbage companies.

It is a personal peeve of mine that the necro threads are not sent back to the grave after the spam is removed, by deleting the unintended legitimate responses after the spam is deleted. Most every time, there are 2+ people that do not look at ANY of the dates or read other responses but just chip in their 2 despite the fact that the OP may not have been on the forum for YEARS, or the issue was resolved/so old as to be pointless to add any further comments.

I'm going to disagree with you on this.  I mean, I don't disagree that it's your pet peeve, but I disagree that it's pointless to continue comments.  In fact, I think it's point-full (okay, I know that's not a word), or rather, useful, to those who were not around when the original discussion was posted.  Lots of subjects are timeless and lots of newer folks might benefit from a discussion and thoughtful comments, even if they are 4 years old.  I think, for the most part, people can either avoid the spammer's links.  It certainly is helpful if the spammer gets blocked and their content removed, but in general reviving old posts is not necessarily a bad thing, IMO.

I've noticed several of the posts that dougules is referring to. 
The problem I have is that subsequent posters haven't brought anything new to the discussion.  This is poor form on their part, as they are too lazy to read through the pages of comments and merely want to put their own, redundant thoughts out there.  It adds little (if anything) and clogs up the forum.  As Frankies Girl said, generally the OP got his/her answer long ago and sometimes has left the forum entirely.

Occasionally old threads get revived for good reason, and new developments (e.g. updates to tax laws) warrant further discussion.  That's different than these necroposts.

dougules

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 12:52:59 PM »
Just a little more anecdotal evidence, I just got fooled by one again.

https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/travel-and-mustachianism/

And for reference, I did look at what the other folks had to say. 

chemistk

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2020, 06:57:09 AM »
Maybe anecdotal, but id does seem like there has been an uptick recently. I've been sulking around here for the last 5 years or so, and I don't recall as many blatant spam posts a few years ago. But then again, perception and recency bias is a funny thing and I could be totally off base here.

It would be nice to have some means of asking the forum-at-large to please check the date a thread was started and the date of the last post. There's definitely value in resurrecting old topics (or continuing long-standing threads), but when the original post is someone asking a question that's not so relevant today and/or any advice given by new posters is not likely to be helpful, it can get a little confusing. 

Dicey

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2020, 07:18:12 AM »
As a long time member (since before @Frankies Girl was FIRE, lol) I loves me a good update, but hate the shitty spammers. I report 'em when I see them as well. What peeves me is when some dum bass quotes the spammer - Gah! The [amazing] mods can take down the offending comment but not the ones that have been quoted by someone else. Grrr. For God's sake, don't quote spammers, people!

Another reason for necroposts is touch screens. It's easy to bump something accidentally and end up in 2015. #askmehowiknow.

OP, thanks for asking the question. Increased awareness hopefully leads to less spam.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2020, 07:37:57 AM by Dicey »

MrDelane

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2020, 07:26:31 AM »
Would be super if links/keywords could be blocked for a time/minimum post count

That's not a bad idea.
I used to admin a high traffic forum at one time and our solution (which worked for us) was to require new posters to make an introductory post in one particular forum before they could post anywhere else on the site. I think we called it something boring like 'New Members Post Here').

By making a single post in the appropriate forum new members could get full permissions - but it forced all spammers to post in one place first which made it MUCH easier to catch them.  Granted, that site had over 50 individual forums, so that solution made sense in that context.  But, if it ever gets bad enough here it might be something to think about. I know it made our mods jobs much easier.

Omy

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2020, 09:14:41 AM »
Posting a new topic that has been hashed out in the past annoys some posters. Adding to an old post annoys other posters. Damned if you do...damned if you dont.

What's the correct approach?

bisunacceptable

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2020, 09:32:36 AM »
Posting a new topic that has been hashed out in the past annoys some posters. Adding to an old post annoys other posters. Damned if you do...damned if you dont.

What's the correct approach?
As a longtime lurker (as in, I have been following the MMM site for YEARS, but only recently made an account), this is an excellent point. I assumed some older posts that were showing up - as annoying as they might be to others - might be by someone who searched the forum, found an old post with a similar question, then perhaps added to it to get new insights, rather than starting an entirely new thread and THEN being curtly told to "search first" (a la fatwallet)... I can see myself in the former group - or rather, I could - now I would be hesitant. For instance, suppose there's an old post on DIY brake repair; you're a new poster with a question that's not covered in that post. That post contains info XYZ. Now, by reposting that thread with your new question, it narrows the focus by demonstrating that you KNOW what's already out there - but you're looking for additional info beyond that. That is, you don't have a post that's starting from ground zero. I would think that would make more sense than starting a whole new thread. And I KNOW you're talking about spammers using that technique, but if you eliminate reposting of old threads, you affect everyone, not just the spammers, no?

nereo

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2020, 09:38:51 AM »
What's the correct approach?
the correct approach is to read through threads before posting.  If its one that has laid dormant for months or years, consider whether there's a reason to revive the thread. A warning will even come up if its been more than 6 (?) months since the last post.  If several previous posters have already made similar suggestions, ask yourself whether your response adds anything to the discussion. 

It's not unlike group conversations in real life.  Generally it's rude to suggest the same exact thing that someone else has already said, and bringing up a topic that was already discussed extensively gets tedious for those involved and suggests the poster wasn't paying attention.

tl;dr - If you wouldn't do it IRL, don't do it on the forum.

Omy

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2020, 09:57:31 AM »
I agree with that. Though it gets a bit tedious to go through the REALLY long threads.

dougules

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2020, 10:22:51 AM »
Even if you are good about reading through previous comments, it's very easy to miss looking at dates. 

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2020, 10:39:27 AM »
I was trying to figure out if this was real or Necro - https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-type-of-re-person-are-you/msg2547226/

A thread is dead for 2+ years and someone with 5 postcount jumps on just to post a useless sentence?

TVRodriguez

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2020, 11:05:07 AM »
What's the correct approach?
the correct approach is to read through threads before posting.  If its one that has laid dormant for months or years, consider whether there's a reason to revive the thread. A warning will even come up if its been more than 6 (?) months since the last post.  If several previous posters have already made similar suggestions, ask yourself whether your response adds anything to the discussion. 

It's not unlike group conversations in real life.  Generally it's rude to suggest the same exact thing that someone else has already said, and bringing up a topic that was already discussed extensively gets tedious for those involved and suggests the poster wasn't paying attention.

tl;dr - If you wouldn't do it IRL, don't do it on the forum.

I'm going to full on disagree with this, for the reasons listed by @Omy and @bisunacceptable above.

Also, online boards and threads are not real life conversations. 

For one thing, they do not happen in real time anyway, even for those that happen over the course of only one day, so a latecomer cannot be compared to a RL conversation-buster. 

They are also open to the public, generally, unlike private real life conversations.  And suggesting the same thing as someone else is generally accepted when done as a "+1" or "ditto."  Not to mention that adding to a prior suggestion can sometimes give it more weight, especially if it's an uncommon approach.

And, while the original poster may be long gone or have solved his/her issue, there may be 20 other lurkers who can benefit from the suggestions.

I do recognize that long-time posters can get weary of seeing the same topics over and over.   That's not unique to this forum.  It happens all over, and it's one reason that long-time posters tend to leave.  Doesn't mean that new posters should miss out on being able to contribute to and extend an existing thread.

Omy

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2020, 11:49:29 AM »
I was trying to figure out if this was real or Necro - https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-type-of-re-person-are-you/msg2547226/

A thread is dead for 2+ years and someone with 5 postcount jumps on just to post a useless sentence?

IMO, the poster answered the question in good faith. I have no idea what SWAMIs and YETIs are, but those were 2 of the choices in the poll and the poster was clarifying his/her situation. Why would that type of post have an expiration date? I'm not trying to be argumentative - just trying to understand why it's an issue for some people.

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2020, 12:06:30 PM »
I was trying to figure out if this was real or Necro - https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-type-of-re-person-are-you/msg2547226/

A thread is dead for 2+ years and someone with 5 postcount jumps on just to post a useless sentence?

IMO, the poster answered the question in good faith. I have no idea what SWAMIs and YETIs are, but those were 2 of the choices in the poll and the poster was clarifying his/her situation. Why would that type of post have an expiration date? I'm not trying to be argumentative - just trying to understand why it's an issue for some people.

That's what made the case so intriguing to me, looking through their posts it does seem that they have jumped on to the board and started to legitimately contribute.  They could have just voted (which would not have revived the thread), but basically said they are none of the options in the poll which revived it to tell us :)  I'm going to have to unsubscribe from threads at some point.

Omy

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2020, 12:23:16 PM »
How do you unsubscribe from a thread? Do you have to delete all of your posts from the thread in question?

robartsd

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2020, 02:44:48 PM »
How do you unsubscribe from a thread? Do you have to delete all of your posts from the thread in question?
Stop using "Sow new replies to your posts" and start using "Notifications". To get there, go to your profile and select "Notifications" from the "Modify Profile" menu. For the option labelled "For topics and boards I've requested notification on, notify me of:" choose "Nothing at all" (so you don't get email updates). Check the box for "Turn notification on when you post or reply to a topic." Congratulations, now you go to this page (I use it as my bookmark for these forums) to see which threads that you are interested in have been updated. Unfortunately all your notification threads are listed (not just those with unread posts). Fortunately you can also just click the "Notify" button for threads you are interested (no need to "ptf" when you don't have something to add to a thread you are interested in). To remove from this listing click the checkbox for the thread then click the "Unnotify" button (or just click the "Unnotify" button when viewing the thread).

solon

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2020, 02:54:24 PM »
How to Unsubscribe from a thread

Step 1 - Subscribe
Go to this page: https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/profile/?area=notification
Use it as your bookmark for the forum.
Set all the settings as you see in the picture attached.
From now on, any time you reply to a thread, it will show up in this list and you will see every time it gets updated.
You can also hit "Notify" on any thread to add it to this list without actually replying to the thread.

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Dicey

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2020, 03:19:12 PM »
I was trying to figure out if this was real or Necro - https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/welcome-to-the-forum/what-type-of-re-person-are-you/msg2547226/

A thread is dead for 2+ years and someone with 5 postcount jumps on just to post a useless sentence?

IMO, the poster answered the question in good faith. I have no idea what SWAMIs and YETIs are, but those were 2 of the choices in the poll and the poster was clarifying his/her situation. Why would that type of post have an expiration date? I'm not trying to be argumentative - just trying to understand why it's an issue for some people.

That's what made the case so intriguing to me, looking through their posts it does seem that they have jumped on to the board and started to legitimately contribute.  They could have just voted (which would not have revived the thread), but basically said they are none of the options in the poll which revived it to tell us :)  I'm going to have to unsubscribe from threads at some point.
Ah, that particular one came up because someone made specific reference to it, including link, on another thread. It's an outlier, though, as far as this topic is concerned.

Omy

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2020, 03:33:06 PM »
Thanks for the unsubscribe directions!

EscapeVelocity2020

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #25 on: January 28, 2020, 08:49:40 PM »
Ah, that particular one came up because someone made specific reference to it, including link, on another thread. It's an outlier, though, as far as this topic is concerned.

Mystery solved!  It wasn't spammy, like others were complaining about, I just could not understand how a newbie finds a two-year dead thread unless it is something like a sticky thread or a 4% Rule style mega-thread (which probably shows up in Google searches on the 4% rule).

Omy

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2020, 06:26:34 AM »
I spent years digging around the site and forum and reading tons before I ever posted. There's a wealth of information. So it makes sense to me that a newbie might be reading and not necessarily paying attention to dates.

Rural

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2020, 07:11:47 AM »
Non spam necroposts are likely to be up in January as people make new year resolutions and join in January.

Samuel

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #28 on: January 31, 2020, 03:38:21 PM »
I don't suppose there is any way to add an icon or badge or visual notation of some sort next to threads where the original post is >3 months old, is there? So you'd at least immediately know it's not a fresh topic?



Frankies Girl

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #29 on: January 31, 2020, 04:35:24 PM »
I don't suppose there is any way to add an icon or badge or visual notation of some sort next to threads where the original post is >3 months old, is there? So you'd at least immediately know it's not a fresh topic?

That would in theory be helpful, but if people don't notice any of the post's dates or read the previous responses... then even a icon or visual isn't likely to register either.

That's the issue - 9 times out of 10, no one that posts after a spammer bumped the necro thread READS THE PREVIOUS POSTS OR LOOKS AT THE OP DATE. Right there, most folks would be "hmmmm I wonder why spammerguy searched out this 3 year old post to make that rather bland statement? Is what I have to say so different from the 5, 10+ posters that already responded? "

I personally would rather see a brand new thread rather than a really old one bumped up to add a new question/information pertaining to new poster's situation... for exactly the reason above. Very few posters are going to answer the NEW poster's question; they'll just read the original post and respond to that one. So it makes more sense to me if the new person wants their topic/questions discussed to begin a new thread to ensure posters are paying attention to the subject...

But that's me. I'm sure there are a wide variety of preferences for this sort of thing. ;)


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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #30 on: January 31, 2020, 11:12:00 PM »
Would be super if links/keywords could be blocked for a time/minimum post count

That's not a bad idea.
I used to admin a high traffic forum at one time and our solution (which worked for us) was to require new posters to make an introductory post in one particular forum before they could post anywhere else on the site. I think we called it something boring like 'New Members Post Here').

By making a single post in the appropriate forum new members could get full permissions - but it forced all spammers to post in one place first which made it MUCH easier to catch them.  Granted, that site had over 50 individual forums, so that solution made sense in that context.  But, if it ever gets bad enough here it might be something to think about. I know it made our mods jobs much easier.

Both of these seem like great ideas. I'm not certain if they'll have a measurable affect on the necroposters, but they'd sure help quarantine the flood of garbage SEO spam threads that have been posted here several times this week.

Frankies Girl

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #31 on: January 31, 2020, 11:51:35 PM »
Would be super if links/keywords could be blocked for a time/minimum post count

That's not a bad idea.
I used to admin a high traffic forum at one time and our solution (which worked for us) was to require new posters to make an introductory post in one particular forum before they could post anywhere else on the site. I think we called it something boring like 'New Members Post Here').

By making a single post in the appropriate forum new members could get full permissions - but it forced all spammers to post in one place first which made it MUCH easier to catch them.  Granted, that site had over 50 individual forums, so that solution made sense in that context.  But, if it ever gets bad enough here it might be something to think about. I know it made our mods jobs much easier.

Both of these seem like great ideas. I'm not certain if they'll have a measurable affect on the necroposters, but they'd sure help quarantine the flood of garbage SEO spam threads that have been posted here several times this week.

They've already had to deal with DOS attacks here (denial of service) in the last year or so, so they are aware more stringent protections and active moderation is something that needs to be done since the forum has grown large enough to be an attractive target. There are so many things they could implement to protect the site.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2020, 11:56:04 PM by Frankies Girl »

ApacheStache

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #32 on: February 01, 2020, 12:14:10 AM »
I used to admin a vBulletin and phpBB forums back in the mid-2000's when there were fewer script kiddies and botnets interested in performing Spam, DOS or DDOS against niche site and forums. The toughest part with attempting to manually address these issues/attacks is that admins and moderators volunteer their free time dealing with issues that, like you mentioned, are much better suited to being handled programatically. From my experience it was sustainable and the task of removing the spam get old pretty quickly.

Chris Pascale

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2020, 06:33:49 PM »
I would guess that some are from new people just finding stuff. I think I've revived some dead threads just because I had found them when I first joined and wanted to put my thoughts forward.

dougules

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #34 on: February 24, 2020, 11:58:48 AM »
I would guess that some are from new people just finding stuff. I think I've revived some dead threads just because I had found them when I first joined and wanted to put my thoughts forward.

Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to revive a thread.  I should have been more specific that there were a lot of suspicious looking necroposts. 

Dicey

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #35 on: February 24, 2020, 01:12:33 PM »
I would guess that some are from new people just finding stuff. I think I've revived some dead threads just because I had found them when I first joined and wanted to put my thoughts forward.

Yes, there are plenty of good reasons to revive a thread.  I should have been more specific that there were a lot of suspicious looking necroposts.
I never trust any necropost by someone with only a few posts if it contains any kind of link. Sorry, go build your own following, don't do it on MMM's back. Since Pete has very little interest in this place he created, I guess it might also be accurate to say, "Don't do it on our backs." At least Pete knighted our awesome moderators, who really keep the shit together here.

simonsez

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Re: Has there been a recent rise necroposts?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2020, 10:08:13 AM »
Interesting topic (and I chuckled to myself and had to check the date on the OP before commenting on this, this will one day be a potential necropost itself!), I'm naive when it comes to to this sort of thing and hold out hope that someone resurrecting a thread has something important to say.  That said, maybe some type of post minimum required to resurrect wouldn't hurt?  Similar to the Off Topic, require x numbers of posts to allow someone to resurrect an old thread.

It's not intuitive for me to check dates.  Why do I care?  If someone has something interesting to say and it grabs my attention to the point to post it doesn't really affect me if it was originally posted yesterday or years ago.  But again, I'm not attuned to the nefariousness of what can go on in forums or have any moderating experience.