I built and sold a multimillion dollar business

[ariapluscat]

I saw this thread the first day. I immediately finished the title with "...and you can too." Then I saw the OP had only two posts. I smelled troll. I also noticed OP was coy about what he did to earn his reported millions. More troll smell. Then OP expresses that he has no desire to retire early, and I again question his motive. I decided to let it ride for a few days.

Three days later, I see nothing to disprove my initial assessment. "nottheturkey" is clearly not the second coming he seems to be angling to prove he is. Sorry, sir, you may have lurked here for months, but opening an account, making a single post, then publishing this screed isn't going to generate a lot of traction for whatever it is you're trying to sell. At least not to this crowd. Further, other than your very first post, you have not commented on any other thread. I still smell that troll smell.

Yeah, stay tuned for how to start an internet company for only $200. You can work from your own living room! No experience necessary! Retire a millionaire in 5 years!

i too am dubious about the possible troll... but if this person has truly succeeded, that's amazing and congrats to them.
i think the thing with why so little of the forum focuses on this is there's a significant advantage for early adopters. your $200 on the internet years ago benefited from being paid years ago. maybe the advice needs to be general on how to spot the opportunity, and i think that's hard advice to give.
┬──┬ ¯\_(ツ) let's maybe put the chairs down and shrug agreeably

[Kyle B]

Thanks Kyle B, I'll take all the good luck I can get! Oh, and speaking of apologies, here's one for you...

Okay! Feedback heard loud and clear.

Sorry for taking such personal offense @sol and I also appreciate your gentle response when you were probably pretty pissed off at me :-)

I think I have a soft shell on the issue of ethics about running this website, because I'm VERY aware of the potential conflict of interest between having people's attention (and sometimes even trust), and abusing it for the sake of making money. So I have really tried not to abuse it.

At the same time, I have felt really good about some of the things that earning money post-retirement has allowed me to do, and also kind of proud that my family and I have not inflated our lifestyles beyond what we could have afforded pre-blog. So I do want the site (and/or any eventual book, or maybe some other future projects) to continue to earn money. It's a useful tool for an idealistic person who likes big long-term plans.

So I do my best, and valid criticism is accepted, and misguided accusations seem to hurt quite a bit - at least from actual forum members here.

Aside from that, Sol and I probably just have different styles, and that is fine with me if it's fine with everyone else.

I personally feel like everyone should be super polite to each other on the Internet, never throw the first insult, never speculate aloud about negative motivations of people you don't know, and assume the best, or if that doesn't work, just take separate paths. But I'm not the Internet Police, so off I go to get back to some construction - it's a sunny day here in Colorado :-)

Once again, Dicey, you have missed that this is not an "apology" in the sense of "I have wronged you."  It's just Pete bending over backwards to be gracious to help Sol save face. 

That's because here Pete's taking Sol at his word when Sol swore swore swore that if Pete please please please wouldn't ban him, Sol would be on perfect behavior from then on.

But if Pete had known that just ten days later Sol would be ripping into a newbie in a very similar way, he certainly would have banned Sol. No question.

By the way, banning long-timers for gang-banging newcomers does wonders for making forums kinder. And it really cuts down on the junior-high in-group nastiness that long-timers often subject newcomers to, when they come to believe that there's nothing they can do to lose the "status" they imagine themselves to have, simply because they've lurked somewhere on the net for a decade.

I know because I'm on another forum where treating peers badly gets a single warning -- a "scarlet letter" red Warning icon that shows on everything they post for the next several months.  And during that period any transgression at all is a lifetime instaban.

And sure, the warn-ee behaves better. But the real benefit of the Mark of Shame is that it's a subtle reminder to everyone else that the forum really is moderated, that behavior matters, and that membership is a privilege, not a right.

And it's kind of like how people drive when there's a police cruiser two lanes away -- WOW are people polite and supportive there!

[Missy B]

Welcome Turkey! I was glad to discover this thread this morning. I enjoy hearing success stories and imagine people here could learn quite a lot from you. I hope you stick around :)

The point Turkey raised about increasing income is critically important. If someone insists that you can solve a cash-flow problem exclusively by optimizing (reducing expenses), that someone is making a two big assumptions that may be wrong: first, that there is sufficient income in the first place, and second, that they are living somewhere that facilitates optimization*.

My income increased over the last three years (as a direct result of the sort of power dynamic thing SeattleCPA talked about in his linked post) and my savings rate shot up. There is no way I could achieve the same rate by optimization. If I ate the cheapest possible food, never ate out for anything, added a roommate to my 400sq-ft apartment, cancelled Netflix and Crave, I would not quite make half of the additional income... and it would be way, way more costly to me in aggravation and loss of simple, inexpensive enjoyments. Like having the toilet to myself.

I know that the people pointing out that time is better spent on a business than a side gig aren't going to get a lot of traction with people who don't really want more work. But their argument is valid, and in the conversations we could have, even people who don't want to run a business will probably pick up something that will help them with their side-gig. Or help them understand something about their business or their boss that could help them with their work.

*When you live in a relatively dense and highly resourced area, it's easy to forget that the bounty of quality cast-offs is not available everywhere. Try getting a great deal on higher-end sports equipment, kids clothes, newish tablets or other tech, or tools, furniture etc. in a small, beat-down town.

[bacchi]

But if Pete had known that just ten days later Sol would be ripping into a newbie in a very similar way, he certainly would have banned Sol. No question.

No question? How do you know that and where was Sol ripping into a newbie? In this thread?

By the way, banning long-timers for gang-banging newcomers does wonders for making forums kinder. And it really cuts down on the junior-high in-group nastiness that long-timers often subject newcomers to, when they come to believe that there's nothing they can do to lose the "status" they imagine themselves to have, simply because they've lurked somewhere on the net for a decade.

We get that this is a sensitive issue for you and you have a problem with "long-timers." You haven't explained why but maybe it's something to explore.

[nara]

I do kind of agree with you Turkey. Several years ago I went out on my own and started a business. We are not cash flowing millions but are above $500k. When you have a successful business you weigh things very differently than someone who has a salaried position with less growth potential (maybe a 3% raise each year to match inflation or a 9% promotion?) Whereas a business owner can see a 100% increase in a year! So as a business owner, you are always looking for ways to free up your time because the return on your time usually far exceeds the expense.

But the value in what MMM and others like him teach is that lifestyle inflation can creep in no matter how much you have and a multimillionaire can easily be broke before they die if they are not good money managers. So I think the philosophy taught here applies to everyone: that you will not find happiness in material things. All you need money for is security and anything beyond that is really just needless. I think people who have come into windfalls are far more at risk of losing everything than people who have developed good financial life habits over years.

[Dicey]

Thanks Kyle B, I'll take all the good luck I can get! Oh, and speaking of apologies, here's one for you...

Okay! Feedback heard loud and clear.

Sorry for taking such personal offense @sol and I also appreciate your gentle response when you were probably pretty pissed off at me :-)

I think I have a soft shell on the issue of ethics about running this website, because I'm VERY aware of the potential conflict of interest between having people's attention (and sometimes even trust), and abusing it for the sake of making money. So I have really tried not to abuse it.

At the same time, I have felt really good about some of the things that earning money post-retirement has allowed me to do, and also kind of proud that my family and I have not inflated our lifestyles beyond what we could have afforded pre-blog. So I do want the site (and/or any eventual book, or maybe some other future projects) to continue to earn money. It's a useful tool for an idealistic person who likes big long-term plans.

So I do my best, and valid criticism is accepted, and misguided accusations seem to hurt quite a bit - at least from actual forum members here.

Aside from that, Sol and I probably just have different styles, and that is fine with me if it's fine with everyone else.

I personally feel like everyone should be super polite to each other on the Internet, never throw the first insult, never speculate aloud about negative motivations of people you don't know, and assume the best, or if that doesn't work, just take separate paths. But I'm not the Internet Police, so off I go to get back to some construction - it's a sunny day here in Colorado :-)

Once again, Dicey, you have missed that this is not an "apology" in the sense of "I have wronged you."  It's just Pete bending over backwards to be gracious to help Sol save face. 

That's because here Pete's taking Sol at his word when Sol swore swore swore that if Pete please please please wouldn't ban him, Sol would be on perfect behavior from then on.

But if Pete had known that just ten days later Sol would be ripping into a newbie in a very similar way, he certainly would have banned Sol. No question.

By the way, banning long-timers for gang-banging newcomers does wonders for making forums kinder. And it really cuts down on the junior-high in-group nastiness that long-timers often subject newcomers to, when they come to believe that there's nothing they can do to lose the "status" they imagine themselves to have, simply because they've lurked somewhere on the net for a decade.

I know because I'm on another forum where treating peers badly gets a single warning -- a "scarlet letter" red Warning icon that shows on everything they post for the next several months.  And during that period any transgression at all is a lifetime instaban.

And sure, the warn-ee behaves better. But the real benefit of the Mark of Shame is that it's a subtle reminder to everyone else that the forum really is moderated, that behavior matters, and that membership is a privilege, not a right.

And it's kind of like how people drive when there's a police cruiser two lanes away -- WOW are people polite and supportive there!

I think you've mischaracterized my comments pretty thoroughly, but meh, whatever. However, you are always free to ping a moderator and let them decide. I'll stand by their decision if you will, too.

[2Birds1Stone]

I think you've mischaracterized my comments pretty thoroughly, but meh, whatever. However, you are always free to ping a moderator and let them decide. I'll stand by their decision if you will, too.

He's been here a whopping 38 days.....

[plantingourpennies]

Weird fuckin' thread.

MMM forum sets up a sub-forum for entrepreneurship, then old-timers and mods attack successful business owners when they show up and share their stories.

@nottheturkey and @nara  Please hang around and ignore the lifestyle guys. I hope to start a small business myself and would love to hear your experiences, best practices, lessons learned, etc.

[gerardc]

Every dollar cut from your budget means 25 dollars you don't need to save for your retirement, so the benefits of frugality are huge.

But you need to cut that dollar from your budget every year. Would you rather put $25 in the piggy bank today, or $1 every year for the rest of your life, which might amount to $50-75+? That's the power of compounding. So, I'd rather save more today and not bother with reducing expenses later down in life.

I'm totalling kidding but still... the above is a slight mind fuck.

[Dicey]

Weird fuckin' thread.

MMM forum sets up a sub-forum for entrepreneurship, then old-timers and mods attack successful business owners when they show up and share their stories.

@nottheturkey and @nara  Please hang around and ignore the lifestyle guys. I hope to start a small business myself and would love to hear your experiences, best practices, lessons learned, etc.

You bet it's weird. So far, the OP hasn't shared much in the way of "experiences, best practices, lessons learned, etc." which is why this thread has raised suspicions. There's too much that looks, well, troll-ish. If you want to start a small business, there are plenty of threads here and elsewhere that offer actual advice.

[plantingourpennies]

Weird fuckin' thread.

MMM forum sets up a sub-forum for entrepreneurship, then old-timers and mods attack successful business owners when they show up and share their stories.

@nottheturkey and @nara  Please hang around and ignore the lifestyle guys. I hope to start a small business myself and would love to hear your experiences, best practices, lessons learned, etc.

You bet it's weird. So far, the OP hasn't shared much in the way of "experiences, best practices, lessons learned, etc." which is why this thread has raised suspicions. There's too much that looks, well, troll-ish. If you want to start a small business, there are plenty of threads here and elsewhere that offer actual advice.

No shit-he's spent the entire thread defending himself against a mod (who thinks this guy is a troll because...reasons) and sol (who apparently hates the idea of making money, despite the fact he's hanging out on the forum named after a guy that has started at least three pretty successful ones). If he doesn't come back, it would be tough to blame him. If he's a troll i'll eat crow, but nothing in his initial post indicated a scam of any sort.

Yes, there are other threads about small business ownership here. Outside of the ones involving SC93 and SeattleCPA, most are useless to me.

[LWYRUP]

Thousands of words have been spilled on this thread, and I am still here wondering in good faith about how I can make millions without doing that much work or taking that much risk.  I'm not here to lecture, I'm here to learn, seriously, but there has been zero actual teaching.  :(

I've been taunted for my inability to become a rich successful entrepreneur, but no guidance has been proffered and how I can overcome my shortcomings, so it all seems kind of like a tease / insult to me.

[nottheturkey]

I do kind of agree with you Turkey. Several years ago I went out on my own and started a business. We are not cash flowing millions but are above $500k. When you have a successful business you weigh things very differently than someone who has a salaried position with less growth potential (maybe a 3% raise each year to match inflation or a 9% promotion?) Whereas a business owner can see a 100% increase in a year! So as a business owner, you are always looking for ways to free up your time because the return on your time usually far exceeds the expense.

But the value in what MMM and others like him teach is that lifestyle inflation can creep in no matter how much you have and a multimillionaire can easily be broke before they die if they are not good money managers. So I think the philosophy taught here applies to everyone: that you will not find happiness in material things. All you need money for is security and anything beyond that is really just needless. I think people who have come into windfalls are far more at risk of losing everything than people who have developed good financial life habits over years.

Can't agree more with the warning about lifestyle creep. I saw it with myself, even when I felt guilty doing it. But the purpose of this thread wasn't to talk about pursing more income to pay for more consumerism. The purpose was a quicker path to FIRE. There is a certain amount of time it takes to implementing frugal strategies. Not that I'm against the strategies. My original question was to ask why some of that time wasn't spent on generating more income. Ok, I'll admit my particular path, and thread title, was a bit sensationalism, but I wasn't expecting this thread to get as much attention as it did. And I could have, and maybe should have, just asked the question without the background story. I apologize for that.

[nottheturkey]

Thousands of words have been spilled on this thread, and I am still here wondering in good faith about how I can make millions without doing that much work or taking that much risk.  I'm not here to lecture, I'm here to learn, seriously, but there has been zero actual teaching.  :(

I've been taunted for my inability to become a rich successful entrepreneur, but no guidance has been proffered and how I can overcome my shortcomings, so it all seems kind of like a tease / insult to me.

That wasn't the intention of the thread. But I'm also interested in same if you can find it! My path took a lot of work and a lot of risk. I apologize for the taunt, although I didn't mean to taunt.

[Telecaster]

Can't agree more with the warning about lifestyle creep. I saw it with myself, even when I felt guilty doing it. But the purpose of this thread wasn't to talk about pursing more income to pay for more consumerism. The purpose was a quicker path to FIRE. There is a certain amount of time it takes to implementing frugal strategies. Not that I'm against the strategies. My original question was to ask why some of that time wasn't spent on generating more income. Ok, I'll admit my particular path, and thread title, was a bit sensationalism, but I wasn't expecting this thread to get as much attention as it did. And I could have, and maybe should have, just asked the question without the background story. I apologize for that.

Well, there is an entire sub-board devoted to real estate investing.  And there are any number of active threads about side-hustles, tradelines, etc. and of course this entire sub-board about entitled "Entrepreneurship."  How much more time should be devoted to entrepreneurship that isn't already? 

[plantingourpennies]

Well, there is an entire sub-board devoted to real estate investing.  And there are any number of active threads about side-hustles, tradelines, etc. and of course this entire sub-board about entitled "Entrepreneurship." 

Here is why I'm interested in what SeattleCPA, SC93 and possibly NTT write about.

Real Estate takes big leverage to get the types of returns that I'm looking for from starting a business. I'm against leverage in general and a decent chunk of my net worth is already in houses, rental units and land.

All the etsy/tradelines/side hustles are both small-ball and seem to be basically creating a job. I already have a job. It's actually a pretty damn good one that pays well, so I don't need another.

How much more time should be devoted to entrepreneurship that isn't already? 

Most of what is talked about in the "entreprenuership" forum is really just how to create a job for yourself. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just looking for information on something bigger.

[Kyle B]

Well, there is an entire sub-board devoted to real estate investing.  And there are any number of active threads about side-hustles, tradelines, etc. and of course this entire sub-board about entitled "Entrepreneurship." 

Here is why I'm interested in what SeattleCPA, SC93 and possibly NTT write about.

Real Estate takes big leverage to get the types of returns that I'm looking for from starting a business. I'm against leverage in general and a decent chunk of my net worth is already in houses, rental units and land.

All the etsy/tradelines/side hustles are both small-ball and seem to be basically creating a job. I already have a job. It's actually a pretty damn good one that pays well, so I don't need another.

How much more time should be devoted to entrepreneurship that isn't already? 

Most of what is talked about in the "entreprenuership" forum is really just how to create a job for yourself. Nothing wrong with that, I'm just looking for information on something bigger.

Yeah, real estate is perfect for Pete, who seems like he would work construction for free. But having tenants would make me want to blow my brains out.

And Etsy is mostly tuned for SAHMs who want a mode of self-expression rather than a cash-cow. It seems like Mrs. Money Mustache has turned her new store into a solid performer, but I'm pretty sure the platform is limiting potential growth.

My guess is that NTT has been pretty put off by the badgering (by mods no less!) who are now basically daring him to continue the thread amid continuing incoming fire from "long-timers". Teaching this crowd how to start a business sounds like as much fun as putting your arm down a running garbage disposal.

Anyway, a great way to learn about the OP's field of ecom is from podcasts like

eCommerce Fuel - Andrew Youderian
Shopify Masters
AM/PM Podcast w/Manny Coats
ActiveGrowth - Shane Melaugh
Amazing Seller - Scott Voelker
Diary of a CEO - Steven Bartlett
SuperFast Business - James Schramko
Mixergy
My Wife Quit Her Job
Noah Kagan Presents
The RV Entrepreneur
Tropical MBA

That should get you pretty far down the rabbit hole, lol.

[damyst]

Anyway, a great way to learn about the OP's field of ecom is from podcasts like

eCommerce Fuel - Andrew Youderian
Shopify Masters
AM/PM Podcast w/Manny Coats
ActiveGrowth - Shane Melaugh
Amazing Seller - Scott Voelker
Diary of a CEO - Steven Bartlett
SuperFast Business - James Schramko
Mixergy
My Wife Quit Her Job
Noah Kagan Presents
The RV Entrepreneur
Tropical MBA

That should get you pretty far down the rabbit hole, lol.

Leaving aside the less savory parts of this thread, thank you Kyle B for posting that list. I'm already knee-deep in Tropical MBA, and finding it very inspiring.

Read their critique of MMM and RE if you find this discussion interesting. Like the OP, it completely ignores the non-financial aspects of Mustachianism, but it's still relevant and appealing for this reader at least.

[Kyle B]

There are also tons of FB groups on all aspects of entrepreneurship. FB gets much more traffic and might skew younger.

Also, you can join the Tropical MBA forum, which is great when I remember to visit.

I will also probably join the eCommerce Fuel forum, but I'm feeling like I'm already consuming enough content right now.

My guess is that Pete created the entrepreneurship forum because he knows it can be a big part of FI for the right people. He and his wife are that kind of people, but it seems like most MMMers are economizing/job oriented. The people who launch forums are not the same as the people who use them.

So I don't know if there will ever be critical mass of entrepreneurs here (but entrepreneurs are the only people on standalone entrepreneurship forums.)

[mtbbrown]

I'm really interested in Entrepreneurship but don't really know what it means. Haven't even finished college yet (trying to get a Business Administration degree with an Entrepreneurship concentration), but know that some day I want to lead. Are there any bits of advice you have for someone as green as myself?

[Kyle B]

I'm really interested in Entrepreneurship but don't really know what it means. Haven't even finished college yet (trying to get a Business Administration degree with an Entrepreneurship concentration), but know that some day I want to lead. Are there any bits of advice you have for someone as green as myself?

Not sure if you're asking me. But I don't really feel qualified to give advice, other than: take advantage of the miracle of podcasts. The best people in any field are podcasting right now, and you will learn way more than your professors know before long. Especially if you want to be an entrepreneur.  Way better than college and it's all free.

A college prof teaching how to be an entrepreneur is like a fish teaching flying.

Also, start using twitter to follow people who are the best in the world at what interests you.  You want to be eavesdropping on those conversations.

Finally, if you have interest in coding (I don't, but I kind of wish I did) look into Lambda School.

[mtbbrown]

LOL, certainly understand that one. Probably learned more about Entrepreneurship from NRTOC than I will in the program. Might choose an IT concentration instead if it's really that unproductive to learn Entrepreneurship in a college environment. I've looked at some podcasts online, but it's really difficult to tell the difference between the good ones and the people providing minimal knowledge to push their product without wasting too much of my time. Any recommendations on good podcasts to listen to? I have a book list of things I've been told to (and things I have added myself) to help with the entrepreneurship and strengthening business knowledge:

Think and Grow Rich by Napolean Hill
The Prince by Machiavelli
How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
The Little Book of Common Sense Investing by John Bogle (Unrelated to Entrepreneurship, but good reading nonetheless)
Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen R Covey

I'm mildly interested in coding, but have hated some coding classes in the past. VBA wasn't bad but JAVA didn't make much sense to me.

[Kyle B]

My ecom podcast recs are above.

For other subjects, honestly, just google "best XXXXX podcasts" and you can't lose.

Not a huge fan of Machiavelli. People revere his deviousness but miss the fact that he died in exile on a rock in the Mediterranean.  He wrote the book in an unsuccessful attempt to grovel to the person who exiled him. So...win?

The Carnegie book is much, much better. Live that way and you will absolutely have a great life -- and you will get to be proud of yourself along the way. (By the way, people as diverse as Warren Buffett and Scott Adams have pointed to their Carnegie public speaking training as among the most important educational experiences they ever had. If you can afford it -- it's not cheap -- do it.)

Also read Peterson's 12 Rules for Living.

Think and Grow Rich -- it's okay. Kind of occult nonsense, really. Though they delete his bizarre sexual chapter when they reprint it these days.

[mtbbrown]

Okay, I admit I didn't read the entire thread before I just jumped on and posted. Will look up those podcasts. Looking forward to when I can use what is being taught through all the books and podcasts in a practical outlet, theoretical knowledge certainly has its limits. Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

[TVRodriguez]

Anyway, a great way to learn about the OP's field of ecom is from podcasts like

eCommerce Fuel - Andrew Youderian
Shopify Masters
AM/PM Podcast w/Manny Coats
ActiveGrowth - Shane Melaugh
Amazing Seller - Scott Voelker
Diary of a CEO - Steven Bartlett
SuperFast Business - James Schramko
Mixergy
My Wife Quit Her Job
Noah Kagan Presents
The RV Entrepreneur
Tropical MBA

That should get you pretty far down the rabbit hole, lol.

Leaving aside the less savory parts of this thread, thank you Kyle B for posting that list. I'm already knee-deep in Tropical MBA, and finding it very inspiring.

Read their critique of MMM and RE if you find this discussion interesting. Like the OP, it completely ignores the non-financial aspects of Mustachianism, but it's still relevant and appealing for this reader at least.

I found that linked post interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

[Dicey]

Anyway, a great way to learn about the OP's field of ecom is from podcasts like

eCommerce Fuel - Andrew Youderian
Shopify Masters
AM/PM Podcast w/Manny Coats
ActiveGrowth - Shane Melaugh
Amazing Seller - Scott Voelker
Diary of a CEO - Steven Bartlett
SuperFast Business - James Schramko
Mixergy
My Wife Quit Her Job
Noah Kagan Presents
The RV Entrepreneur
Tropical MBA

That should get you pretty far down the rabbit hole, lol.

Leaving aside the less savory parts of this thread, thank you Kyle B for posting that list. I'm already knee-deep in Tropical MBA, and finding it very inspiring.

Read their critique of MMM and RE if you find this discussion interesting. Like the OP, it completely ignores the non-financial aspects of Mustachianism, but it's still relevant and appealing for this reader at least.

I found that linked post interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

Looked interesting to me, too. Thanks, Kyle!

[robartsd]

Read their critique of MMM and RE if you find this discussion interesting. Like the OP, it completely ignores the non-financial aspects of Mustachianism, but it's still relevant and appealing for this reader at least.

I found that linked post interesting.  Thanks for sharing.

Looked interesting to me, too. Thanks, Kyle!

Yes, though I didn't see it so much as a critique. It was written before the money and confidence are interchangeable post. Seems to me that MMM agrees that building a business is another way to reach your goals (but the wins from frugality are still worthwhile). I don't think anyone in this community has a problem with earning financial freedom through entrepreneurship - just that this community values the concept of "enough" much more than the OP seems to appreciate.

Finally, if you have interest in coding (I don't, but I kind of wish I did) look into Lambda School.

Lambda School tuition: 30k (or 17% of two years gross salary if < 88k/yr) for 6 month FT coding school (also available 12 month PT). Would be interesting if they offered tuition as an % of increased salary instead of % of total salary (something like 50% of increased salary for next 3 years).

[Kyle B]

Looked interesting to me, too. Thanks, Kyle!

You're very welcome.

Finally, if you have interest in coding (I don't, but I kind of wish I did) look into Lambda School.

Lambda School tuition: 30k (or 17% of two years gross salary if < 88k/yr) for 6 month FT coding school (also available 12 month PT). Would be interesting if they offered tuition as an % of increased salary instead of % of total salary (something like 50% of increased salary for next 3 years).

What's cool is that to prove out the concept they are starting with poor minority kids who would never have had a shot at college. The first three kids have just come through the program, and the CEO (Austin Allred) posted preliminary results a few days ago:

Chatted with the first three Lambda School students hired today to ask if we could share their stories, and ended up doing some quick math:

Their collective incomes increased by $183,150/yr after Lambda School (a $61,050 increase on average).

All three are minorities.

Each of them is making more than 2x their previous income after taxes, *even while they're paying Lambda School back*

That's after a six-month bootcamp, not a four year college education. 

Compare that with the bastards at schools like DeVry, that victims students never recover from.

Companies like Lambda are going to turn higher education upside down.

(Thought experiment: If Mr. Money Mustache had done Lambda instead of his 4-year education, could he have retired at 26?)

[LessIsLess]

The MMM hardcore followers learn one way (self deprivation) and they learn it well.  It can become difficult to accept there is another way, perhaps better way, to reach FI.  No one is attacking their "temple of frugality" but even if someone did, so what?  Frugality is just another concept open for debate.

As for "seriously, how do you build a successful business from $200, that can't be true..." thoughts, it's an indication of self doubt.  The main ingredient to success is self-confidence.  Believe you can do it, and get to work from there.  The world is fluid, so the ability to tweak, adapt, and pivot is important.  Sitting around doing nothing, while filling your heads with negative thoughts, only leads to one outcome:  it keeps you glued to your current place.

[Kyle B]

The main ingredient to success is self-confidence.  Believe you can do it, and get to work from there.  The world is fluid, so the ability to tweak, adapt, and pivot is important.  Sitting around doing nothing, while filling your heads with negative thoughts, only leads to one outcome:  it keeps you glued to your current place.

I think this is very true. But I also think Pete's post about money & confidence is true, too. Pete seems to be saying that even when he didn't think he'd succeed (ie, just doing cool stuff for grins and giggles) he succeeded anyway. (At least succeeded well enough that he was glad he tried.)

Like Pete, I've never anticipated success with anything I did. Yet I had the same shocking experience as Pete -- everything I tried wound up succeeding in one way or another. (So then I beat myself up for not starting earlier, not pushing harder, not trying more things, etc.)

I don't think I'm special, either. And I don't think that Pete's experience is rare for 'triers', either.  Instead, I think that trying has been beaten out of almost everyone since they were kids.  I think if more people tried stuff, they'd all be amazed at how much worked.  People act like success is impossible. But since trying almost always improves something somehow, success is practically the default result of trying.

[BigHaus89]

I'm really interested in Entrepreneurship but don't really know what it means. Haven't even finished college yet (trying to get a Business Administration degree with an Entrepreneurship concentration), but know that some day I want to lead. Are there any bits of advice you have for someone as green as myself?

Try to find some areas that you are truly passionate about. When you start a business, you will be eating, breathing and dreaming of your business constantly. You have to love it even when things are difficult. The difficulties are where the true growth and learning comes from. As Ray Dalio says, growth comes from pain and reflection. You need to have a growth mindset; always looking for opportunity, learning experiences, and ways to optimize.

Start small, like the OP. Keep your costs as low as possible, live on very little and do the things that get you the most bang-for your buck. Taking from the 4 hour work week approach, do the 20% of the work for 80% of the results. Then find the next thing to leverage your time with that approach. Spend the first 5 years of the business building young company into a mature, stable company.

I'll reiterate the three things again that we have learned from our successful biz: Learn constantly, always look for opportunity, and optimize everything.

Thanks to the OP for sharing your thoughts. Business is definitely something that you can leverage yourself many times over vs. traditional employment. The more successful our biz becomes, the harder it becomes to go to my desk job everyday. Nothing beats the freedom and possibilities of running your own business.

As an aside: All the unbridled jealousy in this thread is really fucking weird. 

[mtbbrown]

I'm really interested in Entrepreneurship but don't really know what it means. Haven't even finished college yet (trying to get a Business Administration degree with an Entrepreneurship concentration), but know that some day I want to lead. Are there any bits of advice you have for someone as green as myself?

Try to find some areas that you are truly passionate about. When you start a business, you will be eating, breathing and dreaming of your business constantly. You have to love it even when things are difficult. The difficulties are where the true growth and learning comes from. As Ray Dalio says, growth comes from pain and reflection. You need to have a growth mindset; always looking for opportunity, learning experiences, and ways to optimize.

Start small, like the OP. Keep your costs as low as possible, live on very little and do the things that get you the most bang-for your buck. Taking from the 4 hour work week approach, do the 20% of the work for 80% of the results. Then find the next thing to leverage your time with that approach. Spend the first 5 years of the business building young company into a mature, stable company.

I'll reiterate the three things again that we have learned from our successful biz: Learn constantly, always look for opportunity, and optimize everything.

Thanks to the OP for sharing your thoughts. Business is definitely something that you can leverage yourself many times over vs. traditional employment. The more successful our biz becomes, the harder it becomes to go to my desk job everyday. Nothing beats the freedom and possibilities of running your own business.

As an aside: All the unbridled jealousy in this thread is really fucking weird.

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice. I will certainly try to find out what I will like, and hope that I have the dedication to see it all through. Kind of hard to know what I like before I enter the "real world". Will continue to lurk on here and see just what people are coming up with, some really inspiring successes from the forum members here.

[Telecaster]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice. I will certainly try to find out what I will like, and hope that I have the dedication to see it all through. Kind of hard to know what I like before I enter the "real world". Will continue to lurk on here and see just what people are coming up with, some really inspiring successes from the forum members here.

That's not terrible advice ("do what you love") but it is incomplete.  The thing you really need to do is develop a set of in-demand skills.  If you do that, then everything else flows naturally. 

[mtbbrown]

Thanks for the words of encouragement and advice. I will certainly try to find out what I will like, and hope that I have the dedication to see it all through. Kind of hard to know what I like before I enter the "real world". Will continue to lurk on here and see just what people are coming up with, some really inspiring successes from the forum members here.

That's not terrible advice ("do what you love") but it is incomplete.  The thing you really need to do is develop a set of in-demand skills.  If you do that, then everything else flows naturally. 

I understand that side of the argument too. If you put all your energy into skills that aren't valued in modern society, then you won't really ever hit it big. On the other hand, with the growing power of the internet a bit of business savvy can turn a lot of unusual ideas into profitable ventures. Preferably I will find something that I enjoy that is at least somewhat relevant.