Author Topic: Next steps after INVENTING?  (Read 4551 times)

baconschteam

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Next steps after INVENTING?
« on: December 03, 2021, 10:56:24 PM »
I have an idea for a product. It is a simple electronic device that I would use all the time if it existed. This makes me think a few other people would want to as well. I can make a run of working prototypes myself. I can do this spending only my time and probably few hundred dollars.

But then comes incorporating, patenting, marketing, mass producing, selling; I do not know how these things happen. Any inventors out their that can give me a push in the right direction? Does patenting really cost many thousands of dollars? Do I have to take care of this before anything?

I’m currently, briefly, in between jobs and my naive vision is that I will spend a short but intense time making this product real, getting it on Amazon, and then getting back to a regular job with a nice passive income stream from my invention. Could it be real?
« Last Edit: December 04, 2021, 12:28:21 AM by baconschteam »

swashbucklinstache

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2021, 10:31:09 AM »
Consider talking to your local small business association as a first step.

baconschteam

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2021, 11:59:06 AM »
Is that the same thing as "Small Business Administration"? Having trouble finding info on this.

G-dog

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2021, 02:27:18 PM »
Patent agent here (insert disclaimers).  In general patent costs will depend on how many countries you file in, how well written and claimed the application is, how straightforward and easy (or hard) examination and prosecution is, how well you (or counsel) meets deadlines, and how long you maintain any granted patent(s).  But it will likely cost you at least a few thousand overall even if you file only in the US (assuming you are in the US).

Feel free to PM me if you want more detailed advice - but most importantly:
1.  do a really good search for all the information  and devices already known (aka “prior art”).  Similar devices inly need to be described, not necessarily for sale or produced;
2. Be very careful to define what makes your invention unique versus closest prior art;
3. Be very careful with whom snd how you share any information about your invention.  You could inadvertently make it public and then start a filing clock against yourself.  Even publicly using a prototype in public might create a public disclosure that will come back and bite you later.

Watchmaker

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2021, 03:02:21 PM »
I'd recommend looking for an Business Accelerator/Incubator/Hub. Local to you would be best, but failing that one that works with companies in the same space as your idea. They can provide excellent advice/mentorship/connections.

Don't worry about a patent. They are expensive, time consuming, and unlikely to give you real protection against the "big guys".

The most important things for you to do are to build the prototype and get real world data that supports your product and revenue model.

Edited to add: Your product idea most likely cannot be adequately protected by a patent. Either because it is not novel (in the legal sense), or because you wouldn't be able to get broad enough claims to prevent competitors from working around your IP. 
« Last Edit: December 08, 2021, 03:07:15 PM by Watchmaker »

baconschteam

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2021, 10:49:32 AM »
I'd recommend looking for an Business Accelerator/Incubator/Hub. Local to you would be best, but failing that one that works with companies in the same space as your idea. They can provide excellent advice/mentorship/connections.

Don't worry about a patent. They are expensive, time consuming, and unlikely to give you real protection against the "big guys".

The most important things for you to do are to build the prototype and get real world data that supports your product and revenue model.

Edited to add: Your product idea most likely cannot be adequately protected by a patent. Either because it is not novel (in the legal sense), or because you wouldn't be able to get broad enough claims to prevent competitors from working around your IP.

My fear (of course) is that I could put lots of work into making this thing and then as soon as I start selling it publicly, somebody (somebody with more business/supply chain experience) can just figure out how to make/sell it for much cheaper. I am not a very skilled business person; I am good at making things. I don't want to make this as cheaply as possible. I want to make it in the USA, with minimal, biodegradable packaging. Is there no protection for a small player? How, then, could somebody make money from a product? I will look for a local business incubator, I suppose they would have more details. I'm in NJ near NYC, BTW.


Patent agent here (insert disclaimers).  In general patent costs will depend on how many countries you file in, how well written and claimed the application is, how straightforward and easy (or hard) examination and prosecution is, how well you (or counsel) meets deadlines, and how long you maintain any granted patent(s).  But it will likely cost you at least a few thousand overall even if you file only in the US (assuming you are in the US).

Feel free to PM me if you want more detailed advice - but most importantly:
1.  do a really good search for all the information  and devices already known (aka “prior art”).  Similar devices inly need to be described, not necessarily for sale or produced;
2. Be very careful to define what makes your invention unique versus closest prior art;
3. Be very careful with whom snd how you share any information about your invention.  You could inadvertently make it public and then start a filing clock against yourself.  Even publicly using a prototype in public might create a public disclosure that will come back and bite you later.


Thanks for this informed perspective. I do not mind spending a few thousand dollars if it would provide a bit of protection. I'll send you a message.


I appreciate all the advice!
« Last Edit: December 15, 2021, 12:12:48 PM by baconschteam »

Watchmaker

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2021, 12:04:29 PM »
I'd recommend looking for an Business Accelerator/Incubator/Hub. Local to you would be best, but failing that one that works with companies in the same space as your idea. They can provide excellent advice/mentorship/connections.

Don't worry about a patent. They are expensive, time consuming, and unlikely to give you real protection against the "big guys".

The most important things for you to do are to build the prototype and get real world data that supports your product and revenue model.

Edited to add: Your product idea most likely cannot be adequately protected by a patent. Either because it is not novel (in the legal sense), or because you wouldn't be able to get broad enough claims to prevent competitors from working around your IP.

My fear (of course) is that I could put lots of work into making this thing and then as soon as I start selling it publicly, somebody (somebody with more business/supply chain experience) can just figure out how to make/sell it for much cheaper. I am not a very skilled business person; I am good at making things. I don't want to make this as cheaply as possible. I want to make it in the USA, with minimal, biodegradable packaging. Is there no protection for a small player? How, then, could somebody make money from a product? I will look for a local business incubator, I suppose they would have more details. I'm in NJ near NYC, BTW.

I appreciate all the advice!

The best defense you have against competition is not a patent-- it's building a high quality product and having a good business and marketing plan. To be clear, I'm not against patents in general, they have a place (I'm an inventor on 50+ patents and have helped write another 50). But it is usually a mistake for a start-up to put time and money into a patent rather than work that gets you closer to revenue or investment.

Being in the NY/NJ area, you're near a ton of great resources that are designed precisely to help people in your position. A good place to start would be the NJ Small Business Development Center: https://njsbdc.com/new-business/
« Last Edit: December 16, 2021, 03:02:54 PM by Watchmaker »

KarefulKactus15

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2021, 02:40:54 PM »
One blog that I read daily (Sorry MMM =/) Is living Stingy.  It just so happens that he has done a good portion of his professional career as a patent attorney or at the patent office. 

http://livingstingy.blogspot.com/2015/12/why-inventors-never-win-problem-with.html   (Search "patent" on his blog for an entire list of his thoughts on the matter")

It seems the system is designed to protect big companies and could be prohibitive for the little guys to patent or even fully protect their intellectual property.

I have never pursued a patent, but my current opinion is that developing a product and producing sales has a better ROI?

Metalcat

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2021, 06:38:00 PM »
I'd recommend looking for an Business Accelerator/Incubator/Hub. Local to you would be best, but failing that one that works with companies in the same space as your idea. They can provide excellent advice/mentorship/connections.

Don't worry about a patent. They are expensive, time consuming, and unlikely to give you real protection against the "big guys".

The most important things for you to do are to build the prototype and get real world data that supports your product and revenue model.

Edited to add: Your product idea most likely cannot be adequately protected by a patent. Either because it is not novel (in the legal sense), or because you wouldn't be able to get broad enough claims to prevent competitors from working around your IP.

My fear (of course) is that I could put lots of work into making this thing and then as soon as I start selling it publicly, somebody (somebody with more business/supply chain experience) can just figure out how to make/sell it for much cheaper. I am not a very skilled business person; I am good at making things. I don't want to make this as cheaply as possible. I want to make it in the USA, with minimal, biodegradable packaging. Is there no protection for a small player? How, then, could somebody make money from a product? I will look for a local business incubator, I suppose they would have more details. I'm in NJ near NYC, BTW.


Patent agent here (insert disclaimers).  In general patent costs will depend on how many countries you file in, how well written and claimed the application is, how straightforward and easy (or hard) examination and prosecution is, how well you (or counsel) meets deadlines, and how long you maintain any granted patent(s).  But it will likely cost you at least a few thousand overall even if you file only in the US (assuming you are in the US).

Feel free to PM me if you want more detailed advice - but most importantly:
1.  do a really good search for all the information  and devices already known (aka “prior art”).  Similar devices inly need to be described, not necessarily for sale or produced;
2. Be very careful to define what makes your invention unique versus closest prior art;
3. Be very careful with whom snd how you share any information about your invention.  You could inadvertently make it public and then start a filing clock against yourself.  Even publicly using a prototype in public might create a public disclosure that will come back and bite you later.


Thanks for this informed perspective. I do not mind spending a few thousand dollars if it would provide a bit of protection. I'll send you a message.


I appreciate all the advice!

Your intuition is correct, there is no protection business-wise for an inventor of a product. You can patent and then sell your invention to someone who has the resources to turn it into a business, or you can try your hand at building a business yourself.

Buy no, unfortunately inventing something doesn't legally entitled you to be the one who develops a profitable business as a result of inventing it.

That's why the laws favour big business because patent laws aren't designed to protect your business interests, just your intellectual property. And big business will always have advantage on the business front since IP laws don't protect you at all on the business front.

There is no way to protect yourself from competition, the only thing you can do is develop the best business strategies for your product, so if you aren't strong on business skills, then you either need to learn quickly, or partner with someone/another business who does such as an incubator, or just sell your IP.

I know a number of brilliant inventors who've never made any money, and a lot of savvy business people who've made plenty without ever having a single original idea.

Inventing things doesn't make anyone rich, it's figuring out how to capitalize on inventions that makes people rich.

Watchmaker

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2021, 08:15:08 AM »
The Wire said it quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbAbFF6Xc04

Chris Pascale

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2022, 09:03:34 PM »
The Wire said it quite well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbAbFF6Xc04

"You think Ronald McDonald going down to the basement and be like...."

Chris Pascale

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2022, 09:05:50 PM »
I have an idea for a product. It is a simple electronic device that I would use all the time if it existed. This makes me think a few other people would want to as well. I can make a run of working prototypes myself. I can do this spending only my time and probably few hundred dollars.

But then comes incorporating, patenting, marketing, mass producing, selling; I do not know how these things happen. Any inventors out their that can give me a push in the right direction? Does patenting really cost many thousands of dollars? Do I have to take care of this before anything?

I’m currently, briefly, in between jobs and my naive vision is that I will spend a short but intense time making this product real, getting it on Amazon, and then getting back to a regular job with a nice passive income stream from my invention. Could it be real?

You get a version that can be used, post on the "Badassity" and a few other topics so we know about it.

You gotta be willing to tell people about it - splash it on your social media, ask others to do the same, make demo videos, make improved versions.

Good luck.

BlueHouse

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2022, 12:24:00 PM »
Patent agent here (insert disclaimers).  In general patent costs will depend on how many countries you file in, how well written and claimed the application is, how straightforward and easy (or hard) examination and prosecution is, how well you (or counsel) meets deadlines, and how long you maintain any granted patent(s).  But it will likely cost you at least a few thousand overall even if you file only in the US (assuming you are in the US).

Feel free to PM me if you want more detailed advice - but most importantly:
1.  do a really good search for all the information  and devices already known (aka “prior art”).  Similar devices inly need to be described, not necessarily for sale or produced;
2. Be very careful to define what makes your invention unique versus closest prior art;
3. Be very careful with whom snd how you share any information about your invention.  You could inadvertently make it public and then start a filing clock against yourself.  Even publicly using a prototype in public might create a public disclosure that will come back and bite you later.

Wouldn't a provisional patent provide at least some protection (back when I filed, it was $75 and protected the idea for a year while I figured everything else out).

The other piece of advice I have is what my old boss told me (that I was a big baby about because I was dead-set that it should be a hardware product).  He told me that if it can be done with software instead of hardware, not only is the development that much easier, but it's easier to sell and get into the hands of consumers.  30 years ago I was holding out for the hardware option because I thought it was so cool.  Now everybody has the function built into their smartphones.  So think about whether there's another way to accomplish what you want to build as a widget.

webguy

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #13 on: July 20, 2022, 06:27:08 AM »
I’m currently, briefly, in between jobs and my naive vision is that I will spend a short but intense time making this product real, getting it on Amazon, and then getting back to a regular job with a nice passive income stream from my invention. Could it be real?

This is definitely not the best way to think about it. If you want it to be successful then you’re underestimating the ongoing work it will take, otherwise if you just leave it on Amazon hands-off then someone will build a better version with better customer support and better marketing and your version will slowly die. For a product to be successful it takes a full time effort, talking to customers, iterating, support, marketing etc. A book l’d recommend is “Build” by tony fadell. This will give you a better idea of what it takes to build a successful product.

lutorm

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2022, 02:38:43 PM »
I’m currently, briefly, in between jobs and my naive vision is that I will spend a short but intense time making this product real, getting it on Amazon, and then getting back to a regular job with a nice passive income stream from my invention. Could it be real?

This is definitely not the best way to think about it. If you want it to be successful then you’re underestimating the ongoing work it will take, otherwise if you just leave it on Amazon hands-off then someone will build a better version with better customer support and better marketing and your version will slowly die. For a product to be successful it takes a full time effort, talking to customers, iterating, support, marketing etc. A book l’d recommend is “Build” by tony fadell. This will give you a better idea of what it takes to build a successful product.
Not to mention, patent or not, if you put it on Amazon and it sells, someone's going to make a shitty version in China and compete with you. Now you gotta bring your patent to court, at which point the seller disappears and reappears. Just look at the amount of counterfeit shit on Amazon.

Michael in ABQ

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Re: Next steps after INVENTING?
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2022, 10:00:39 PM »
My first job in college was working as an intern in a market research office in the business school. For $750 an inventor could get someone to look at their idea and tell them if there was a market for it. In general, no there wasn't. One guy got a patent on using the pilot light in your furnace or water heater to make distilled water. However, it produced maybe a few ounces per day and would have required getting the two companies that basically control the water heater market to build it into their products. I think he said he had spent about $20k on the patent and it was worthless as there was no market for his products and it wasn't economically feasible when a gallon of distilled water costs $1 at the grocery store.

Another one was basically a business card that you could tear off part of it, fold it over, and it would work like a thumb drive. Neat idea, but even by the mid 2000s it was getting easy enough to just host whatever content online and provide a link.


Ideas are worthless, turning those ideas into a product/service/business is what's valuable. The idea of selling a wide variety of products at low prices wasn't something new that Walmart invented - they just implemented it better than their competition. Some ideas are truly new and radical - but it's usually not the first person/company with an idea that ends up making it successful. Everyone has heard of Elon Musk, no one knows the names of the guys who actually started Tesla but couldn't get a successful electric car built.


Depending on the type of products and market, you could try licensing it. This is very common in the toy industry where independent inventors and small companies routinely invent new toys and then market them to big toy companies who will license the product and pay the inventory a royalty. Even 1-2% or a few cents per unit when there are tens of millions of units sold is a lot better than making $5 per unit if you can only sell a few hundred.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2022, 09:11:25 PM by Michael in ABQ »

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!