Fishing tackle business investment, risk, reward, etc ?

[jeromedawg]

Hey all,

Just wanted to preface this by saying I love fishing - always have but got into it a lot more after college and having more free time haha. Nowadays, I try to get out when I can but it's tough with the family. That said, I'm in several groups on FB for general fishing and also buy/sell/trade. Someone in my area posted up an interest ad for kick-starting a brand/label business focused, as of now, on selling a high quality but lower cost fluorocarbon fishing line. For those of you who don't fish, fluoro is a pretty expensive fishing line (there are probably a dozen or less or so brands out there that sell fluorocarbon) but many people like using it for certain benefits (faster sinking, lower visibility, better abrasion resistance, etc), so a lot of this seems to be hinging on the fact that he has found a quality manufacturer in Japan who makes higher-quality fluoro (compared to other brands per the testing that has been done) and at significantly less the cost of current competition.
As far as the product/costs/profit: This would be material he buys in bulk from Japan, of which he would have handspooled by US Vets (not sure but I think this might be part of the marketing) onto a 50m spool at a cost of $4.18 per spool. He would be looking to sell each 50m spool for around $18 per spool. (not unreasonable considering that a 20-30 yard spool of fluoro typically sells for anywhere from $10-15... on lighter line though, typically).

Anyway, I was considering meeting with him in person to discuss further but he's looking to fund $35k from investors (prefers looking for investors who fish versus going to the bank for a loan) and is putting in $35k of his own money. He was saying he doesn't think $35k is much overall and he doesn't want to take on too much from too many investors as he "wants to run lean and get profitable quickly."
He hasn't done anything else in the fishing market but mentioned he has launched other products in tougher markets (didn't get specifics) and that the fishing market lacks marketing innovation, which I think he was probably implying he has an edge on.
What I know as of now is that the funds would go towards "website, administration startup, getting enough inventory, licenses"
He also stated he wouldn't take any sort of salary until they hit the shelves with a product. His wife is a photographer who has shot for Yeti and Patagonia as well (as far as some cost-savings).


He's looking for investors willing to put in anywhere from $5k to $20k and said he currently has about 5 people who are interested but probably 3 who are on the more serious side. 
That's about all I have for now. Just wanted to get some initial feedback with the info given, particularly from those of you who have done any sort of investments or business on the sporting good/camping/outdoors and specifically fishing side.

[ROF Expat]

I'm not a small businessman, but I am a fisherman, and I'm not sure I see how the numbers here add up to a profitable business. 

If you are talking about 30 and 50 yard spools of fluoro, can I assume you are talking about selling this as fly fishing tippet?  If so, the "big name" players (to the degree "names" exist in a niche market like fly fishing) do sell for around $15  per 30 yd spool (a few for considerably more).  But they usually have a range of products to go with their tippet (like leaders and fly lines) a recognized brand, a reputation for customer service, and a marketing budget that gets them out in front of a lot of fly fishermen. 

At $18 for 50 yards, you really aren't undercutting these companies on price by a significant amount, so you will have to sell based on the superiority of the product.  If this Japanese tippet is really significantly better than what established companies produce, you're going to have to quantify this and get it out in front of fly fishermen.  How will potential customers know your product is better?  Why will they believe you?  My guess is that this requires attendance at trade shows, placement in magazines and use by pros, guides, etc.  That all takes time and money.  And if the product really is superior, unless you have an exclusive, other companies can simply buy the same product and market it themselves. 

It also looks to me like there's a lot of competition.  I buy fluorocarbon tippet, but I usually buy when it is on sale, so I get a name brand for under $10 per spool.  And unlike mono tippet, fluorocarbon doesn't degrade with age, so I don't have to buy every season, and I can wait until I see a really good deal.  There's a lot of choices for fluoro tippet in 50 yard sizes for under $10 on Amazon from companies I haven't heard of.  As an unknown product, you'll probably be competing with them as much as with the big boys. 

To turn a profit, you're going to have to sell many thousands of spools of this fluoro.  And doing all that by direct sale is going to be tough.  If you get it into Cabela's or fly shops or Amazon, you might sell more, but your margins are going to be a lot lower. 

I'm trying to picture myself sending $54 for three spools of tippet to your company (plus postage?), and it is a little difficult.  Tippet is  a product I like to buy from a local fly shop to help keep them in business.  If I go mail order, I could pay $45 for the product I usually buy in 30 yd spools, maybe $30 on sale, or about $15 for a generic product.  Both of those options seem more likely. 

All that said, I think being in the tackle business might be really interesting, particularly if you're more than just a silent partner.  If the product really is superior and you're willing to invest in things like having a booth at the fishing tackle shows, it could be fun, especially if you can afford to lose your $5,000 investment. 

I'd have a look at the proposed business plan and look to see how that $70,000 would create a market for the product.  I think you'd have to sell a lot of tippet to turn a profit on a $70,000 investment. 

Good luck!

[jeromedawg]

I'm not a small businessman, but I am a fisherman, and I'm not sure I see how the numbers here add up to a profitable business. 

If you are talking about 30 and 50 yard spools of fluoro, can I assume you are talking about selling this as fly fishing tippet?  If so, the "big name" players (to the degree "names" exist in a niche market like fly fishing) do sell for around $15  per 30 yd spool (a few for considerably more).  But they usually have a range of products to go with their tippet (like leaders and fly lines) a recognized brand, a reputation for customer service, and a marketing budget that gets them out in front of a lot of fly fishermen. 

At $18 for 50 yards, you really aren't undercutting these companies on price by a significant amount, so you will have to sell based on the superiority of the product.  If this Japanese tippet is really significantly better than what established companies produce, you're going to have to quantify this and get it out in front of fly fishermen.  How will potential customers know your product is better?  Why will they believe you?  My guess is that this requires attendance at trade shows, placement in magazines and use by pros, guides, etc.  That all takes time and money.  And if the product really is superior, unless you have an exclusive, other companies can simply buy the same product and market it themselves. 

It also looks to me like there's a lot of competition.  I buy fluorocarbon tippet, but I usually buy when it is on sale, so I get a name brand for under $10 per spool.  And unlike mono tippet, fluorocarbon doesn't degrade with age, so I don't have to buy every season, and I can wait until I see a really good deal.  There's a lot of choices for fluoro tippet in 50 yard sizes for under $10 on Amazon from companies I haven't heard of.  As an unknown product, you'll probably be competing with them as much as with the big boys. 

To turn a profit, you're going to have to sell many thousands of spools of this fluoro.  And doing all that by direct sale is going to be tough.  If you get it into Cabela's or fly shops or Amazon, you might sell more, but your margins are going to be a lot lower. 

I'm trying to picture myself sending $54 for three spools of tippet to your company (plus postage?), and it is a little difficult.  Tippet is  a product I like to buy from a local fly shop to help keep them in business.  If I go mail order, I could pay $45 for the product I usually buy in 30 yd spools, maybe $30 on sale, or about $15 for a generic product.  Both of those options seem more likely. 

All that said, I think being in the tackle business might be really interesting, particularly if you're more than just a silent partner.  If the product really is superior and you're willing to invest in things like having a booth at the fishing tackle shows, it could be fun, especially if you can afford to lose your $5,000 investment. 

I'd have a look at the proposed business plan and look to see how that $70,000 would create a market for the product.  I think you'd have to sell a lot of tippet to turn a profit on a $70,000 investment. 

Good luck!

Thanks! So this flourocarbon is actually going to be marketed towards conventional/baitcasting/spinning freshwater and saltwater fishermen and not necessarily the fly fishing niche per my understanding. Also, the ratings on tippet is pretty different when it comes to "lb test" and what not - tippet is generally stronger at thinner diameters. It could very well be that he's just buying material that is used more commonly with tippet and 'converting' it to regular flouro spools but I thought tippet was also pricier because of that advantage?

Primary use cases for flouro would be fishing heavy cover for freshwater bass but also more so for saltwater fishing - a lot of people especially in SoCal rely on flouro fishing for pelagics because they can tend to be line shy but also fishing around the kelp and boiler rocks (heavy flouro leader + braid setups are called "kelp-cutters"). It's a bit of a niche given that, and in general, most flouro is sold in small 20-30yd spools and maybe 100yd spools - people buy them as-needed because the price point of spending on a larger 200-300+yd spool is way too much. But I think selling a 50yd spool also makes sense from the perspective that people may just want to buy one spool rather than picking up 2-3 smaller "spare" spools of flouro leader material.

In any case, I do want to learn more about this area since it's an industry I'm interested in. A lot of good points/problems you bring up though as far as competition. I won't say there isn't any but I think this guy is looking at it from both a product superiority perspective and also a superior product placement/marketing strategy standpoint. Will definitely need to get more info

[ROF Expat]

That's really interesting. 

Even as a niche market in conventional fishing is probably larger than fly fishing, so that might help the potential. 

I wonder how much difference there really is between "regular" fluoro and "tippet" fluoro.  Regular fishing line is usually sold by breaking strength and the diameter can vary.  Tippet is sold by diameter, and breaking strength can vary.  Using better material either allows you to make regular line thinner for the same strength or tippet stronger for the same diameter.  I don't see why they would really be different at the manufacturing stage. 

At least some companies claim that their fluoro tippet is specially formulated as tippet.  They say it has better limpness for landing a fly and slight improvements to keep knots from slipping.   On the other hand, I know a lot of people who buy regular spin fishing fluoro, check the diameter with a micrometer, and happily use it as tippet. 

Fly fishing fluoro (like just about everything involved in fly fishing) costs more than equivalent spinning stuff, but I'm not sure that is rational or justifiable.  Fly fishing is a smaller market, so margins have to be a little larger, but I notice that spinning rods from a company like GLoomis cost hundreds of dollars less than their fly rod counterparts, and I don't think the quality is lower.   

Anyway, I still think seeing the business plan and understanding how you'll create a market is the key.  And I still think it could be an interesting and entertaining side project. 

Let me know how it goes, and feel free to PM if that seems better. 

Good luck!

[jeromedawg]

That's really interesting. 

Even as a niche market in conventional fishing is probably larger than fly fishing, so that might help the potential. 

I wonder how much difference there really is between "regular" fluoro and "tippet" fluoro.  Regular fishing line is usually sold by breaking strength and the diameter can vary.  Tippet is sold by diameter, and breaking strength can vary.  Using better material either allows you to make regular line thinner for the same strength or tippet stronger for the same diameter.  I don't see why they would really be different at the manufacturing stage. 

At least some companies claim that their fluoro tippet is specially formulated as tippet.  They say it has better limpness for landing a fly and slight improvements to keep knots from slipping.   On the other hand, I know a lot of people who buy regular spin fishing fluoro, check the diameter with a micrometer, and happily use it as tippet. 

Fly fishing fluoro (like just about everything involved in fly fishing) costs more than equivalent spinning stuff, but I'm not sure that is rational or justifiable.  Fly fishing is a smaller market, so margins have to be a little larger, but I notice that spinning rods from a company like GLoomis cost hundreds of dollars less than their fly rod counterparts, and I don't think the quality is lower.   

Anyway, I still think seeing the business plan and understanding how you'll create a market is the key.  And I still think it could be an interesting and entertaining side project. 

Let me know how it goes, and feel free to PM if that seems better. 

Good luck!

Definitely here in SoCal the "niche" fishing market is huge - particularly because there's such a wide-variety of fishing you can do. And, in general, people aren't afraid to spend big bucks on gear, tackle, etc...

I've generally heard the same opinion about tippets vs standard flouro. Heck, I know many who end up just buying flouro and using that as tippet material. I think it's doable but I think there likely are some key difference - likely the purist and intentional fly fishermen (especially the trout guys I would thiknk) are probably going to be a bit more picky about their leader/tippet material. Especially based on this thread theflyfishingforum.com/forums/fly-lines/326277-fluorocarbon-tippet-different-than-fluorocarbn-line.html
Key Quotes from that thread:

"The reason for the high cost of fluorocarbon tippets is due to building a higher quality product and economy of scale. There is a bit more engineering in a leader material that is stronger in thinner diameters but retains the suppleness to make nice presentations. Also the economy of scale is going to favor the conventional line companies. They are just going to pump out more line."

"I agree with the assertion that fluorocarbon lines tend to be thicker than fluorocarbon tippet of equal breaking strength. For this reason I still use fluorocarbon tippet rather than substituting fluorocarbon line.

However, I feel that fluorocarbon tippet manufacturers are probably making a huge profit when they sell 25 or 30 yard spools for $15-18. I feel violated every time I have to shell out this amount for something that probably costs $.50 to manufacture."

There are guys who will tell you that as long as they catch fish it doesn't matter. But there are guys who are very insistent that using flouro tippet is the *only* way to do it. Haha...

You make a good point though in that the fly fishing market is an even smaller niche - nearly everything is more expensive! It's easy to spend a thousand bucks on a fly setup for it to only be "above average" - if you want a really supreme setup you need to spend double that. On the other hand, I could spend that much on big game/tuna gear lol.  But yea, with rods, it's not like they're building fly rods with materials that are much different. Perhaps it takes a certain amount of 'effort' and time to get the tapers and actions correct with the blanks? That's about the only thing I can think of but even then the costs can be exorbitantly high.

Thanks for all the pointers! I'll definitely reach out to you via PM as things progress.

[MishMash]

So as avid deep sea fishers with a penchant for floro I wouldn't do it.  I've ordered floro from China and Japan and it's crap.  DH and a buddy actually ran a scientific test in the garage with every brand of floro out there testing tensile strength and stretch, and they came in dead last, 50lb test was breaking at around 20lbs and stretching at around 15.  Spiderwire was the best.

I would advise in the least, testing the product he wants to spool before even considering it. 

[jeromedawg]

So as avid deep sea fishers with a penchant for floro I wouldn't do it.  I've ordered floro from China and Japan and it's crap.  DH and a buddy actually ran a scientific test in the garage with every brand of floro out there testing tensile strength and stretch, and they came in dead last, 50lb test was breaking at around 20lbs and stretching at around 15.  Spiderwire was the best.

I would advise in the least, testing the product he wants to spool before even considering it.

Good point. He said it has been tested against Seaguar with favorable results. As far as flouro manufactured and sold straight from China, I would be inclined to believe that but not flouro manufactured,sold/shipped from Japan - have you ever heard of Yo-Zuri? Sunline is another newer brand that has come out. MANY guys hunting pelagics here in SoCal (primarily tuna and yellowtail) prefer Yo-Zuri pink. Seaguar Blue Label is the bare minimum standard but most guys prefer Yo-Zuri to it as far as quality. Sunline was favorably reviewed by a small but extremely reputable company called Charkbait (based out of SoCal) due to it's strength/quality and price over Seaguar. The problem is that not many people know about Sunline. One of my buddies uses Sunline to fish the surf and likes it a lot. So I think there are definitely opportunities here but it does fall a lot on marketing and also having a product that is backed by its quality (and price). It would be good to get some more data on breaking strengths with this line so that's one area I'll have to inquire more about.

[MishMash]

Oh yea we've used every brand you've mentioned (we are big into yellowfin tuna and sword fishing).  And yea Yo-Zuri is good (and they also make killer squid jigs) but a lot of the bulk stuff that we in the states can get our hands on isn't up to that quality.  I've ordered rolls of the stuff over the years, and it's never once been on par.  Now if he's ordering it from a guy he knows that can get his hands on some of the commercial boat stuff that's a different story. 


PS love Charkbait, we ordered all our Avets through them. 

[jeromedawg]

Oh yea we've used every brand you've mentioned (we are big into yellowfin tuna and sword fishing).  And yea Yo-Zuri is good (and they also make killer squid jigs) but a lot of the bulk stuff that we in the states can get our hands on isn't up to that quality.  I've ordered rolls of the stuff over the years, and it's never once been on par.  Now if he's ordering it from a guy he knows that can get his hands on some of the commercial boat stuff that's a different story. 


PS love Charkbait, we ordered all our Avets through them.

Nice! So what bulk stuff are you referring to again? Are you talking about Yo-Zuri manufactured elsewhere? I would think the Yo-zuri and Sunline manufactured in Japan is likely superior to many brands out there. If that's the case, then I would generally trust the quality of the line that this guy I'm talking to is referring to, as he's saying it is also manufactured in Japan. Not to assume to that *all* line coming from Japan is the best quality but I think they generally tend to have a pretty good track record as far as QC is concerned ;)

Are you located down in SoCal too then?

[MishMash]

Oh yea we've used every brand you've mentioned (we are big into yellowfin tuna and sword fishing).  And yea Yo-Zuri is good (and they also make killer squid jigs) but a lot of the bulk stuff that we in the states can get our hands on isn't up to that quality.  I've ordered rolls of the stuff over the years, and it's never once been on par.  Now if he's ordering it from a guy he knows that can get his hands on some of the commercial boat stuff that's a different story. 


PS love Charkbait, we ordered all our Avets through them.

Nice! So what bulk stuff are you referring to again? Are you talking about Yo-Zuri manufactured elsewhere? I would think the Yo-zuri and Sunline manufactured in Japan is likely superior to many brands out there. If that's the case, then I would generally trust the quality of the line that this guy I'm talking to is referring to, as he's saying it is also manufactured in Japan. Not to assume to that *all* line coming from Japan is the best quality but I think they generally tend to have a pretty good track record as far as QC is concerned ;)

Are you located down in SoCal too then?

Couple of websites we have used, including Alibaba, eBay and amazon to buy stuff that was a generic brand of floro supposedly out of Japan, and yea not good results.  If it's coming out of the same factory as Yo Zuri then yea I would trust it.  Has he told you where or who he is getting it from?

We are in Florida, DH is originally from Laguna Beach though.  Charkbait usually beats the pants off of our local stores on prices and spooling.  No one in our area even sold Avets when we started buying them.  I wish they would come out with a good sealed spinning reel, I just got a Penn slammer III and it feels too clunky to me. 

If you want to test his stuff out, check out the oil rig tuna trips out of Texas, that will put ANY line to the test (and yield you a crap ton of yellowfin tuna) 

[jeromedawg]

Oh yea we've used every brand you've mentioned (we are big into yellowfin tuna and sword fishing).  And yea Yo-Zuri is good (and they also make killer squid jigs) but a lot of the bulk stuff that we in the states can get our hands on isn't up to that quality.  I've ordered rolls of the stuff over the years, and it's never once been on par.  Now if he's ordering it from a guy he knows that can get his hands on some of the commercial boat stuff that's a different story. 


PS love Charkbait, we ordered all our Avets through them.

Nice! So what bulk stuff are you referring to again? Are you talking about Yo-Zuri manufactured elsewhere? I would think the Yo-zuri and Sunline manufactured in Japan is likely superior to many brands out there. If that's the case, then I would generally trust the quality of the line that this guy I'm talking to is referring to, as he's saying it is also manufactured in Japan. Not to assume to that *all* line coming from Japan is the best quality but I think they generally tend to have a pretty good track record as far as QC is concerned ;)

Are you located down in SoCal too then?

Couple of websites we have used, including Alibaba, eBay and amazon to buy stuff that was a generic brand of floro supposedly out of Japan, and yea not good results.  If it's coming out of the same factory as Yo Zuri then yea I would trust it.  Has he told you where or who he is getting it from?

We are in Florida, DH is originally from Laguna Beach though.  Charkbait usually beats the pants off of our local stores on prices and spooling.  No one in our area even sold Avets when we started buying them.  I wish they would come out with a good sealed spinning reel, I just got a Penn slammer III and it feels too clunky to me. 

If you want to test his stuff out, check out the oil rig tuna trips out of Texas, that will put ANY line to the test (and yield you a crap ton of yellowfin tuna)

Oh I *definitely* wouldn't trust a site like Alibaba if the seller claims the flouro they're selling is "from" or "made in" Japan. Ebay and Amazon might be better but I'd still be suspicious on that especially depending on the seller and where they're shipping from. That said, I've ordered Yo-zuri from Amazon and also Ebay and I trust the authenticity. If it's some no-name "100% authentic Japanese Flourocarbon!" though I'd likely not even bother.
Anyway, all he said was that he was sourcing from Japan but no additional specifics. I can dig more on that too.

Ah yes, Florida has a pretty awesome fishery :) I chit-chatted with the vendor/owner of a software company we use at work and he has a bay boat and is huge into fishing (I think he's in Sarasota?). I think, generally, the fishery over there is a bit more diverse compared to over here in terms of accessibility and variety of fish to be caught.
Yea, Charkbait has some good prices, especially since they'll include braid and topshot on many reels (not sure if they still do this). BTW: I've noticed that spinning gear is much more popular in FL and was sort of wondering why that's the case. I know spinning gear is more popular with popping but I've seen guys do fast-jigging with it too (in fact, the last trip I went out on for YFT a guy was fast-jigging with a heavy spinning setup and was doing really well).
Avets are nice reels at the price point - I have a couple SXes but trying to sell one at the moment. Just picked up a couple Okuma Komodos and think I prefer the lower profile large baitcasters to smaller conventional reels. Also, one of the SXes is 2-spd which is kind of overkill and pointless IMHO.  If I were to do it all over, I'd probably just get the SX2 Raptor and call it a day though. But I've caught lots of fish on both reels - they were able to handle 20-30lb grade YFT and I've caught 25 and 35lb yellowtail on them as well. In addition to tons of usage on the rockfish/bottom-fishing.I was considering getting an HX or HXW for a 'light' bluefin setup but ended up going with Penn Fathom 2spds for that (40NLD2 and 60LD2).  Also have a Saltiga 35-2spd which is probably the smoothest reel I've ever used to date (which probably isn't saying much lol).

Speaking of "sealed spinning reels" I was considering getting a Penn Spinfisher VI 2500 for surf fishing but seems a bit heavy IMHO. Otherwise, I've heard good things about it.  By "good sealed spinning reel" I'm assuming you mean "good budget sealed spinning reel"? lol. Have you tried Van Staals? Otherwise you could just get a Dogfight or Stella LOL. Besides that, although not *fully* sealed you've got The Certate LT, Ballistic LT, Stradic CI4+ but those are pretty pricey. I actually picked up a couple Tsunami Shields which claim to be fully sealed and run for $100~ or so at Dicks or Amazon (can get for less if you wait for coupons). I haven't tried fishing them yet but they seem to be pretty solid. What I've found to be a disappointment is that most 'budget' sealed spinning reels I've come across tend not to come in higher gear ratios than 5.x:1 as well as being on the light side (the Spinfisher VI 2500 is 6.2:1 I think but it's heavy at 10oz).
I actually picked up a Kastking Sharky III just because I was interested in the claims of that one being fully or close-to-fully sealed (Saltstrong did an unbiased review on it and surprisingly liked it) - fished with it yesterday and it seemed pretty good although I think the drag smoothness could be improved (possibly greasing them or replacing the existing carbon fiber drag washers with carbontex ones). I went out yesterday with my buddy in his kayak and got a pretty nice bite on it (likely a spotted bay bass) but bad hookset because I apparently forgot that I needed to set the hook...lol. It felt pretty good fishing it otherwise.
Apparently I have issues with too much gear... If anything this is one area that is totally unmustachian!

[MishMash]

Ha! my previous one was a Van Stall, it only lasted two years before seizing which is why I was switching.  We use them a lot but take care of the reels, one of our avets is like 8 years now.  For what you do yea a two speed is probably overkill.  For what we do, I use our two and three speed all the time.  When they are over 100lbs it makes a HUGE difference, especially when you've had multiple surgeries.  We have all raptors JX, SX, HX, HXW, DH is eying the T-RX, which I think is overkill unless we start sword fishing the wall on a regular occurrence.  We also have a few Internationals, but outside of trolling I like the Avets better, they fit my hands and T-rex arms (as DH has so lovingly called my lack of arm span lol)

In regards to the spinners.  Here certain breeds of fish sit further out, so if you are in the keys for example and you are chumming for yellowtail snapper (not your yellowtail, which are jacks I mean the 12-26 inch snapper), the mackeral and the mutton snapper sit quite a bit further behind the line so you have to cast out past the yellowtail bait thieves to catch them, and the bait casters just don't cut it.  Also, slow pitch jigging on acid wrap rods is becoming hot, you can use a standard reel as well, we just prefer the spinners.  I can imagine slow pitch would be AWESOME in your fishery.  Jigging and popping off the oil rig platforms with flying fish is a huge hit as well, I caught a 110lber last month doing that. 

Let me know how the tsunami shields work for you.  And yea, I have an industrial strength pallet rack in my garage FULL of gear, related to fishing, spearfishing, and diving.   DH is also about to buy a WAY un mustachian 27.5 ft boat, and that is currently hurting my heart a bit.  We recently got started in pouring lead (hey that's a bit mustachian, no more $20 lures right?)

[jeromedawg]

Ha! my previous one was a Van Stall, it only lasted two years before seizing which is why I was switching.  We use them a lot but take care of the reels, one of our avets is like 8 years now.  For what you do yea a two speed is probably overkill.  For what we do, I use our two and three speed all the time.  When they are over 100lbs it makes a HUGE difference, especially when you've had multiple surgeries.  We have all raptors JX, SX, HX, HXW, DH is eying the T-RX, which I think is overkill unless we start sword fishing the wall on a regular occurrence.  We also have a few Internationals, but outside of trolling I like the Avets better, they fit my hands and T-rex arms (as DH has so lovingly called my lack of arm span lol)

In regards to the spinners.  Here certain breeds of fish sit further out, so if you are in the keys for example and you are chumming for yellowtail snapper (not your yellowtail, which are jacks I mean the 12-26 inch snapper), the mackeral and the mutton snapper sit quite a bit further behind the line so you have to cast out past the yellowtail bait thieves to catch them, and the bait casters just don't cut it.  Also, slow pitch jigging on acid wrap rods is becoming hot, you can use a standard reel as well, we just prefer the spinners.  I can imagine slow pitch would be AWESOME in your fishery.  Jigging and popping off the oil rig platforms with flying fish is a huge hit as well, I caught a 110lber last month doing that. 

Let me know how the tsunami shields work for you.  And yea, I have an industrial strength pallet rack in my garage FULL of gear, related to fishing, spearfishing, and diving.   DH is also about to buy a WAY un mustachian 27.5 ft boat, and that is currently hurting my heart a bit.  We recently got started in pouring lead (hey that's a bit mustachian, no more $20 lures right?)

Nice collection of Avets! lol the great thing about them is that they're much lighter weight construction vs Internationals and other conventional reels out there. However, if you hookup on some brutes you'll be glad you had a heavier duty reel/frame from what I've heard. I picked up a Mak20IISea for 'heavier' bluefin for that reason haha.

In terms of bait casters, I think distance really depends more so on technique (besides the obvious rod length) over anything. For instance, I know of a guy up in the Bay Area who does a ton of Dungeness crab snaring - *most* guys out there use heavy 6000-8000 spinning reels and 10-12' rods. He prefers round conventional reels and is known to bomb his crab snares wayyyy further out than anyone who has a spinning setup. Same length rods too. As far as casting off the boat, I used to have a Curado 300DSV paired with an 8'6 Seeker Blue Lightning 2 stick and I could absolutely *BOMB* the heck out of Tady lures with it (this was on an open party boat too but I was casting off the bow with nobody else around besides the captain who appeared to be having a casting competition with me lol). I'm pretty sure I could cast just as far if not further than a comparable spinning rod setup if I had one on hand to do a side-by-side. With spinning the 'upstart' is faster in terms of just picking something up and getting it out there. In the right hands and tuned properly though, BCs/conventionals can be deadly for casting lures - it does take more practice and dialing in though. But then it just becomes second nature.
The guy I was chatting with talked a lot about acid wrap rods too - do they really make that much of a difference compared to standard rods? Or is the use case for them very specific to the FL fishery? Slow pitch seems very similar to yo-yo'ing, which is most popular for CA Yellowtail but the idea is generally the same I think - essentially getting the lure up higher in the water column and letting it sink/flutter back down. 
Flying fish is the candy bait out here from Bluefin. The serious guys are into the Yummy Fliers + Balloon setups too and several of the more prolific BFT captains have gotten into 300lb class fish which is amazing for SoCal waters.
It sounds like you've probably watched Local Knowledge (by BDOutdoors) with Ali and Rush? Those guys are top of the game - really cool watching them do their thing. Wish I could be doing *that* for my day job lol.

I'll keep you posted on the Tsunami Shields - I'm surprised you haven't tried them actually! I would think they're more popular out that way as the videos I've seen are of people using them in the Gulf, Florida, East Coast and around the Carribbean more than anything. I could be overstating...

What kind of boat is it? My buddy recently picked up a 20` Robalo so I've gone out with him several times on it. We're just learning the ropes though but hoping to put some pelagics on the deck next season. So far we've done more exploring of the inshore areas (calico bass, barred sandbass, CA sheephead, sculpin, whitefish, and rockfish). We did try to hunt for bft/yft over the summer (trolling and looking for boils) when there were reports of Fishdope of fish cruising the area (this is the Dana Pt area btw) but no such luck. One of my other buddies got into pouring his own plastics and lead too - I'm hesitant on both because knowing me I'd probably end up inhaling too much of that stuff LOL. I have a float tube as well but it's stashed away - I'll take it to fish the harbors every now and then though.

This all just reminded me - I have a surf-fishing buddy who's currently in FL now and just sent me a video of the structure at one of the beaches in Miami, showing an obvious trough and holes likely holding plenty of pompano and whiting. I was reprimanding him for standing around shooting vids while he could be grabbing a setup and tackle from Walmart and catching some fish. Anyway, makes me want to go out there and do some of that. Last time I was out there, this past summer for a cruise, I just didn't have the chance to do it.

[MishMash]

Yea we love the avets! The internationals are nice for trolling but too heavy for anything else.  I actually bought those at a yard sale for like 200 each, then sent them in for about 50 bucks of servicing. So got a great deal on that.

Yea we are gulf coast so little different fishery, mainly you have to go out far for decent size fish.  The slow pitch rod does make a difference.  You can literally bend the rod in half without breaking, combined with the braid you can feel EVERYTHING.  And the rod is literally the same thickness of some of my fly rods, but rated for MUCH heavier fish.  Also, the eyes are twisted around the rod vs straight up one side to help with the jig fall flutter. The lures are weighted heavier on one side vs the other so the flutter action is somewhat different than the fast jigging.  Slow pitch actually started in Japan I think, it's relatively new around here.  One of our buddies is a pro captain in the Keys and got us hooked on it.  It's pretty efficient and slays the red and mangrove snappers here. There is a YouTube video of a guy in Kuala Lumpur that's GREAT at explaining the motions etc.

DH can use the magic cast on the avets and pitch it pretty well, me and my tiny hands it doesn't work so well so I stick to the spinners. 

I have not used a balloon with the yummy fliers but we typically pitch those around the rigs with great success when they are top boiling and jumping.

The boat is a rare one for the states, it's aluminum and manufactured out of New Zealand so a strange sight indeed for Florida.  I just don't like the lack of shade on T-tops, I burn to a crisp if the sun even looks at me, this one has a cabin, but is still a walk around unlike the Grady Whites and Parkers which are big on the east coast.

What is this crab snaring thing...I must now Youtube that!

[jeromedawg]

Yea we love the avets! The internationals are nice for trolling but too heavy for anything else.  I actually bought those at a yard sale for like 200 each, then sent them in for about 50 bucks of servicing. So got a great deal on that.

Yea we are gulf coast so little different fishery, mainly you have to go out far for decent size fish.  The slow pitch rod does make a difference.  You can literally bend the rod in half without breaking, combined with the braid you can feel EVERYTHING.  And the rod is literally the same thickness of some of my fly rods, but rated for MUCH heavier fish.  Also, the eyes are twisted around the rod vs straight up one side to help with the jig fall flutter. The lures are weighted heavier on one side vs the other so the flutter action is somewhat different than the fast jigging.  Slow pitch actually started in Japan I think, it's relatively new around here.  One of our buddies is a pro captain in the Keys and got us hooked on it.  It's pretty efficient and slays the red and mangrove snappers here. There is a YouTube video of a guy in Kuala Lumpur that's GREAT at explaining the motions etc.

DH can use the magic cast on the avets and pitch it pretty well, me and my tiny hands it doesn't work so well so I stick to the spinners. 

I have not used a balloon with the yummy fliers but we typically pitch those around the rigs with great success when they are top boiling and jumping.

The boat is a rare one for the states, it's aluminum and manufactured out of New Zealand so a strange sight indeed for Florida.  I just don't like the lack of shade on T-tops, I burn to a crisp if the sun even looks at me, this one has a cabin, but is still a walk around unlike the Grady Whites and Parkers which are big on the east coast.

What is this crab snaring thing...I must now Youtube that!

Nice - that's a great price on the internationals! The other popular thing here on the West Coast is rail rods versus stand-up/gimbals etc. A lot of the rods they've designed here are designed to leverage the power of the rail to bring the fish in. And most guys will fish for the big bluefin using Shimano Flat Falls in the dark - that's when most of the bigger ones are caught outside of the guys flying kites and balloons at least.

Yea the Raptor and MC Avets I'm sure are good with casting. On my SXes I only fish live bait pretty much so short lobs even with an 8' Seeker American. I got my butt kicked on the last tuna trip and lost more than I should have though. 8' glass rods vs 20-30lb fish is no fun if you just want to kill fish. Especially after you catch 2-3 on them. Unfortunately, those were the only working setups I had to fall-back to because my next sized setup I stupidly put a long topshot of 40lb mono on (not sure what I was thinking but 5-6" sardines do *not* swim well with mono that thick lol).

My buddy is considering selling his Robalo if we're not successful with pelagics... mostly because the cost of maintenance + slip fees and cleaning is crazy. He's pretty well-off and has historically had lots of money pits but I think this by far is probably the biggest one. I think if he didn't have to worry about pay slip fees, it would be another story. And he also doesn't want to trailer it (and wouldn't have anywhere to store it too). Is that as much of a problem out in FL? I would tend to imagine not... but yea his has the T-Top which is actually nice but at the same time we don't get as strong of sunshine (though it is still easy to get burnt out there so I make sure I'm covered up when we go out). Parkers are sweet boats and definitely the most prolific boat private boaters prefer for hunting bluefin and other pelagics here in SoCal.

Crab snaring is a lot of fun - it's an alternative to dropping crab pots and is basically a small cage that you put squid/mackerel/scented bait in with 6 thick mono/nylon/weedwacker loops attached. The idea is that the crab will crawl up to the cage and start picking at the bait all while getting it's appendages inside the loops. After about 10-15mins of casting the snare out you "sweep-set the hook" relatively aggressively and reel, keeping pressure on, in hopes that the loops will have closed and cinched down onto one or more of the crab's appendages. It's quite effective and can be done from shore or pier. You have to be sufficient casting anywhere generally from 6-12oz of lead (usually including the weight of the snare and bait) and it can be scary. I've lost several home-made snares due to not being careful. Casting gloves or the Breakaway Canon is a necessity too unless you want to slice/burn your fingers lol.
Search for Fisherman's Life, More Than Fishing, Ish With Fish, ScorpionTube, or Die Hard Fishing +"Crab Snaring" to get an idea. It's definitely a great work-out but if you're doing it from the shore you usually will want waders and to practice *extreme* caution. The undertows up along the Northern California coast are no joke - several have died from being swept out. Especially if you don't know how to bail out of waders. That coupled with the colder water is a recipe for disaster if you're not fully aware of your surroundings or have a respect for the ocean.

[MishMash]

Yea we love the avets! The internationals are nice for trolling but too heavy for anything else.  I actually bought those at a yard sale for like 200 each, then sent them in for about 50 bucks of servicing. So got a great deal on that.

Yea we are gulf coast so little different fishery, mainly you have to go out far for decent size fish.  The slow pitch rod does make a difference.  You can literally bend the rod in half without breaking, combined with the braid you can feel EVERYTHING.  And the rod is literally the same thickness of some of my fly rods, but rated for MUCH heavier fish.  Also, the eyes are twisted around the rod vs straight up one side to help with the jig fall flutter. The lures are weighted heavier on one side vs the other so the flutter action is somewhat different than the fast jigging.  Slow pitch actually started in Japan I think, it's relatively new around here.  One of our buddies is a pro captain in the Keys and got us hooked on it.  It's pretty efficient and slays the red and mangrove snappers here. There is a YouTube video of a guy in Kuala Lumpur that's GREAT at explaining the motions etc.

DH can use the magic cast on the avets and pitch it pretty well, me and my tiny hands it doesn't work so well so I stick to the spinners. 

I have not used a balloon with the yummy fliers but we typically pitch those around the rigs with great success when they are top boiling and jumping.

The boat is a rare one for the states, it's aluminum and manufactured out of New Zealand so a strange sight indeed for Florida.  I just don't like the lack of shade on T-tops, I burn to a crisp if the sun even looks at me, this one has a cabin, but is still a walk around unlike the Grady Whites and Parkers which are big on the east coast.

What is this crab snaring thing...I must now Youtube that!

Nice - that's a great price on the internationals! The other popular thing here on the West Coast is rail rods versus stand-up/gimbals etc. A lot of the rods they've designed here are designed to leverage the power of the rail to bring the fish in. And most guys will fish for the big bluefin using Shimano Flat Falls in the dark - that's when most of the bigger ones are caught outside of the guys flying kites and balloons at least.

Yea the Raptor and MC Avets I'm sure are good with casting. On my SXes I only fish live bait pretty much so short lobs even with an 8' Seeker American. I got my butt kicked on the last tuna trip and lost more than I should have though. 8' glass rods vs 20-30lb fish is no fun if you just want to kill fish. Especially after you catch 2-3 on them. Unfortunately, those were the only working setups I had to fall-back to because my next sized setup I stupidly put a long topshot of 40lb mono on (not sure what I was thinking but 5-6" sardines do *not* swim well with mono that thick lol).

My buddy is considering selling his Robalo if we're not successful with pelagics... mostly because the cost of maintenance + slip fees and cleaning is crazy. He's pretty well-off and has historically had lots of money pits but I think this by far is probably the biggest one. I think if he didn't have to worry about pay slip fees, it would be another story. And he also doesn't want to trailer it (and wouldn't have anywhere to store it too). Is that as much of a problem out in FL? I would tend to imagine not... but yea his has the T-Top which is actually nice but at the same time we don't get as strong of sunshine (though it is still easy to get burnt out there so I make sure I'm covered up when we go out). Parkers are sweet boats and definitely the most prolific boat private boaters prefer for hunting bluefin and other pelagics here in SoCal.

Crab snaring is a lot of fun - it's an alternative to dropping crab pots and is basically a small cage that you put squid/mackerel/scented bait in with 6 thick mono/nylon/weedwacker loops attached. The idea is that the crab will crawl up to the cage and start picking at the bait all while getting it's appendages inside the loops. After about 10-15mins of casting the snare out you "sweep-set the hook" relatively aggressively and reel, keeping pressure on, in hopes that the loops will have closed and cinched down onto one or more of the crab's appendages. It's quite effective and can be done from shore or pier. You have to be sufficient casting anywhere generally from 6-12oz of lead (usually including the weight of the snare and bait) and it can be scary. I've lost several home-made snares due to not being careful. Casting gloves or the Breakaway Canon is a necessity too unless you want to slice/burn your fingers lol.
Search for Fisherman's Life, More Than Fishing, Ish With Fish, ScorpionTube, or Die Hard Fishing and "Crab Snaring" to get an idea.

OK now crab snaring looks amazing, will have to try that next time on the northern west coast.  I looooove crabbing, grew up in MD so chicken necking was huge.  I wonder if that would work with stone crab here, not sure their legs are spindly enough.

We plan on trailering, too many places here in FL for specialized fishing.  Scalloping in the northern gulf in the summer, shrimping on the east coast this time of year, lobstering in the Keys in July etc.  Slips and storage are huge fees here, not as much as SoCal though.  However we can store it on the military posts, I can store it in Key West for 500 year dry, a bit more up here but still about 1k for the year dry.  DH is getting ready to drop retirement in a year or so and part of the boat agreement is that when he does retire he uses his GI bill to become a Yamaha tech, and to learn basic welding with the sole purpose of being able to do all the maintenance.  He's already pretty handy with electrical and stuff so those two should round out most maintenance. 

I fully anticipate this being a HUGE money pit.  This is his one ask over many years of me pushing FIRE and saving every dime though.

[ROF Expat]

Yea we love the avets! The internationals are nice for trolling but too heavy for anything else.  I actually bought those at a yard sale for like 200 each, then sent them in for about 50 bucks of servicing. So got a great deal on that.

Yea we are gulf coast so little different fishery, mainly you have to go out far for decent size fish.  The slow pitch rod does make a difference.  You can literally bend the rod in half without breaking, combined with the braid you can feel EVERYTHING.  And the rod is literally the same thickness of some of my fly rods, but rated for MUCH heavier fish.  Also, the eyes are twisted around the rod vs straight up one side to help with the jig fall flutter. The lures are weighted heavier on one side vs the other so the flutter action is somewhat different than the fast jigging.  Slow pitch actually started in Japan I think, it's relatively new around here.  One of our buddies is a pro captain in the Keys and got us hooked on it.  It's pretty efficient and slays the red and mangrove snappers here. There is a YouTube video of a guy in Kuala Lumpur that's GREAT at explaining the motions etc.

DH can use the magic cast on the avets and pitch it pretty well, me and my tiny hands it doesn't work so well so I stick to the spinners. 

I have not used a balloon with the yummy fliers but we typically pitch those around the rigs with great success when they are top boiling and jumping.

The boat is a rare one for the states, it's aluminum and manufactured out of New Zealand so a strange sight indeed for Florida.  I just don't like the lack of shade on T-tops, I burn to a crisp if the sun even looks at me, this one has a cabin, but is still a walk around unlike the Grady Whites and Parkers which are big on the east coast.

What is this crab snaring thing...I must now Youtube that!

Nice - that's a great price on the internationals! The other popular thing here on the West Coast is rail rods versus stand-up/gimbals etc. A lot of the rods they've designed here are designed to leverage the power of the rail to bring the fish in. And most guys will fish for the big bluefin using Shimano Flat Falls in the dark - that's when most of the bigger ones are caught outside of the guys flying kites and balloons at least.

Yea the Raptor and MC Avets I'm sure are good with casting. On my SXes I only fish live bait pretty much so short lobs even with an 8' Seeker American. I got my butt kicked on the last tuna trip and lost more than I should have though. 8' glass rods vs 20-30lb fish is no fun if you just want to kill fish. Especially after you catch 2-3 on them. Unfortunately, those were the only working setups I had to fall-back to because my next sized setup I stupidly put a long topshot of 40lb mono on (not sure what I was thinking but 5-6" sardines do *not* swim well with mono that thick lol).

My buddy is considering selling his Robalo if we're not successful with pelagics... mostly because the cost of maintenance + slip fees and cleaning is crazy. He's pretty well-off and has historically had lots of money pits but I think this by far is probably the biggest one. I think if he didn't have to worry about pay slip fees, it would be another story. And he also doesn't want to trailer it (and wouldn't have anywhere to store it too). Is that as much of a problem out in FL? I would tend to imagine not... but yea his has the T-Top which is actually nice but at the same time we don't get as strong of sunshine (though it is still easy to get burnt out there so I make sure I'm covered up when we go out). Parkers are sweet boats and definitely the most prolific boat private boaters prefer for hunting bluefin and other pelagics here in SoCal.

Crab snaring is a lot of fun - it's an alternative to dropping crab pots and is basically a small cage that you put squid/mackerel/scented bait in with 6 thick mono/nylon/weedwacker loops attached. The idea is that the crab will crawl up to the cage and start picking at the bait all while getting it's appendages inside the loops. After about 10-15mins of casting the snare out you "sweep-set the hook" relatively aggressively and reel, keeping pressure on, in hopes that the loops will have closed and cinched down onto one or more of the crab's appendages. It's quite effective and can be done from shore or pier. You have to be sufficient casting anywhere generally from 6-12oz of lead (usually including the weight of the snare and bait) and it can be scary. I've lost several home-made snares due to not being careful. Casting gloves or the Breakaway Canon is a necessity too unless you want to slice/burn your fingers lol.
Search for Fisherman's Life, More Than Fishing, Ish With Fish, ScorpionTube, or Die Hard Fishing and "Crab Snaring" to get an idea.

OK now crab snaring looks amazing, will have to try that next time on the northern west coast.  I looooove crabbing, grew up in MD so chicken necking was huge.  I wonder if that would work with stone crab here, not sure their legs are spindly enough.

We plan on trailering, too many places here in FL for specialized fishing.  Scalloping in the northern gulf in the summer, shrimping on the east coast this time of year, lobstering in the Keys in July etc.  Slips and storage are huge fees here, not as much as SoCal though.  However we can store it on the military posts, I can store it in Key West for 500 year dry, a bit more up here but still about 1k for the year dry.  DH is getting ready to drop retirement in a year or so and part of the boat agreement is that when he does retire he uses his GI bill to become a Yamaha tech, and to learn basic welding with the sole purpose of being able to do all the maintenance.  He's already pretty handy with electrical and stuff so those two should round out most maintenance. 

I fully anticipate this being a HUGE money pit.  This is his one ask over many years of me pushing FIRE and saving every dime though.

Mishmash,

Money Pit?  Un-mustachian?  Sure, but as far as I'm concerned, I live a (relatively) mustachian life so I can do the things I really love.  For me, that largely means boats and fishing.  There's another thread on here about fishing as the "mustachian" hobby because you can go out and catch dinner for very little investment.  I smiled when I read that, because when I cook fish or game, they are probably the most expensive protein on the face of the earth, if you include the cost of boats, gear, travel, lodges, guides, and everything else. 

Tight lines!

[jeromedawg]

Yea we love the avets! The internationals are nice for trolling but too heavy for anything else.  I actually bought those at a yard sale for like 200 each, then sent them in for about 50 bucks of servicing. So got a great deal on that.

Yea we are gulf coast so little different fishery, mainly you have to go out far for decent size fish.  The slow pitch rod does make a difference.  You can literally bend the rod in half without breaking, combined with the braid you can feel EVERYTHING.  And the rod is literally the same thickness of some of my fly rods, but rated for MUCH heavier fish.  Also, the eyes are twisted around the rod vs straight up one side to help with the jig fall flutter. The lures are weighted heavier on one side vs the other so the flutter action is somewhat different than the fast jigging.  Slow pitch actually started in Japan I think, it's relatively new around here.  One of our buddies is a pro captain in the Keys and got us hooked on it.  It's pretty efficient and slays the red and mangrove snappers here. There is a YouTube video of a guy in Kuala Lumpur that's GREAT at explaining the motions etc.

DH can use the magic cast on the avets and pitch it pretty well, me and my tiny hands it doesn't work so well so I stick to the spinners. 

I have not used a balloon with the yummy fliers but we typically pitch those around the rigs with great success when they are top boiling and jumping.

The boat is a rare one for the states, it's aluminum and manufactured out of New Zealand so a strange sight indeed for Florida.  I just don't like the lack of shade on T-tops, I burn to a crisp if the sun even looks at me, this one has a cabin, but is still a walk around unlike the Grady Whites and Parkers which are big on the east coast.

What is this crab snaring thing...I must now Youtube that!

Nice - that's a great price on the internationals! The other popular thing here on the West Coast is rail rods versus stand-up/gimbals etc. A lot of the rods they've designed here are designed to leverage the power of the rail to bring the fish in. And most guys will fish for the big bluefin using Shimano Flat Falls in the dark - that's when most of the bigger ones are caught outside of the guys flying kites and balloons at least.

Yea the Raptor and MC Avets I'm sure are good with casting. On my SXes I only fish live bait pretty much so short lobs even with an 8' Seeker American. I got my butt kicked on the last tuna trip and lost more than I should have though. 8' glass rods vs 20-30lb fish is no fun if you just want to kill fish. Especially after you catch 2-3 on them. Unfortunately, those were the only working setups I had to fall-back to because my next sized setup I stupidly put a long topshot of 40lb mono on (not sure what I was thinking but 5-6" sardines do *not* swim well with mono that thick lol).

My buddy is considering selling his Robalo if we're not successful with pelagics... mostly because the cost of maintenance + slip fees and cleaning is crazy. He's pretty well-off and has historically had lots of money pits but I think this by far is probably the biggest one. I think if he didn't have to worry about pay slip fees, it would be another story. And he also doesn't want to trailer it (and wouldn't have anywhere to store it too). Is that as much of a problem out in FL? I would tend to imagine not... but yea his has the T-Top which is actually nice but at the same time we don't get as strong of sunshine (though it is still easy to get burnt out there so I make sure I'm covered up when we go out). Parkers are sweet boats and definitely the most prolific boat private boaters prefer for hunting bluefin and other pelagics here in SoCal.

Crab snaring is a lot of fun - it's an alternative to dropping crab pots and is basically a small cage that you put squid/mackerel/scented bait in with 6 thick mono/nylon/weedwacker loops attached. The idea is that the crab will crawl up to the cage and start picking at the bait all while getting it's appendages inside the loops. After about 10-15mins of casting the snare out you "sweep-set the hook" relatively aggressively and reel, keeping pressure on, in hopes that the loops will have closed and cinched down onto one or more of the crab's appendages. It's quite effective and can be done from shore or pier. You have to be sufficient casting anywhere generally from 6-12oz of lead (usually including the weight of the snare and bait) and it can be scary. I've lost several home-made snares due to not being careful. Casting gloves or the Breakaway Canon is a necessity too unless you want to slice/burn your fingers lol.
Search for Fisherman's Life, More Than Fishing, Ish With Fish, ScorpionTube, or Die Hard Fishing and "Crab Snaring" to get an idea.

OK now crab snaring looks amazing, will have to try that next time on the northern west coast.  I looooove crabbing, grew up in MD so chicken necking was huge.  I wonder if that would work with stone crab here, not sure their legs are spindly enough.

We plan on trailering, too many places here in FL for specialized fishing.  Scalloping in the northern gulf in the summer, shrimping on the east coast this time of year, lobstering in the Keys in July etc.  Slips and storage are huge fees here, not as much as SoCal though.  However we can store it on the military posts, I can store it in Key West for 500 year dry, a bit more up here but still about 1k for the year dry.  DH is getting ready to drop retirement in a year or so and part of the boat agreement is that when he does retire he uses his GI bill to become a Yamaha tech, and to learn basic welding with the sole purpose of being able to do all the maintenance.  He's already pretty handy with electrical and stuff so those two should round out most maintenance. 

I fully anticipate this being a HUGE money pit.  This is his one ask over many years of me pushing FIRE and saving every dime though.

Mishmash,

Money Pit?  Un-mustachian?  Sure, but as far as I'm concerned, I live a (relatively) mustachian life so I can do the things I really love.  For me, that largely means boats and fishing.  There's another thread on here about fishing as the "mustachian" hobby because you can go out and catch dinner for very little investment.  I smiled when I read that, because when I cook fish or game, they are probably the most expensive protein on the face of the earth, if you include the cost of boats, gear, travel, lodges, guides, and everything else. 

Tight lines!

I'd say it *can* be mustachian but depends on if you are close to or live near the resource and if you're 'minimalistic' as far as what gear you own. Probably the most mustachian way to do it is to either live in Alaska or Montana in a home that's right next to a stream known to hold salmon or trout. Buy a couple setups and tackle and you'll be good. Admittedly for most of us who are into fishing, this very likely isn't the case - if I were up there, I'd probably still have 20+ setups LOL!

[jeromedawg]

Yea we love the avets! The internationals are nice for trolling but too heavy for anything else.  I actually bought those at a yard sale for like 200 each, then sent them in for about 50 bucks of servicing. So got a great deal on that.

Yea we are gulf coast so little different fishery, mainly you have to go out far for decent size fish.  The slow pitch rod does make a difference.  You can literally bend the rod in half without breaking, combined with the braid you can feel EVERYTHING.  And the rod is literally the same thickness of some of my fly rods, but rated for MUCH heavier fish.  Also, the eyes are twisted around the rod vs straight up one side to help with the jig fall flutter. The lures are weighted heavier on one side vs the other so the flutter action is somewhat different than the fast jigging.  Slow pitch actually started in Japan I think, it's relatively new around here.  One of our buddies is a pro captain in the Keys and got us hooked on it.  It's pretty efficient and slays the red and mangrove snappers here. There is a YouTube video of a guy in Kuala Lumpur that's GREAT at explaining the motions etc.

DH can use the magic cast on the avets and pitch it pretty well, me and my tiny hands it doesn't work so well so I stick to the spinners. 

I have not used a balloon with the yummy fliers but we typically pitch those around the rigs with great success when they are top boiling and jumping.

The boat is a rare one for the states, it's aluminum and manufactured out of New Zealand so a strange sight indeed for Florida.  I just don't like the lack of shade on T-tops, I burn to a crisp if the sun even looks at me, this one has a cabin, but is still a walk around unlike the Grady Whites and Parkers which are big on the east coast.

What is this crab snaring thing...I must now Youtube that!

Nice - that's a great price on the internationals! The other popular thing here on the West Coast is rail rods versus stand-up/gimbals etc. A lot of the rods they've designed here are designed to leverage the power of the rail to bring the fish in. And most guys will fish for the big bluefin using Shimano Flat Falls in the dark - that's when most of the bigger ones are caught outside of the guys flying kites and balloons at least.

Yea the Raptor and MC Avets I'm sure are good with casting. On my SXes I only fish live bait pretty much so short lobs even with an 8' Seeker American. I got my butt kicked on the last tuna trip and lost more than I should have though. 8' glass rods vs 20-30lb fish is no fun if you just want to kill fish. Especially after you catch 2-3 on them. Unfortunately, those were the only working setups I had to fall-back to because my next sized setup I stupidly put a long topshot of 40lb mono on (not sure what I was thinking but 5-6" sardines do *not* swim well with mono that thick lol).

My buddy is considering selling his Robalo if we're not successful with pelagics... mostly because the cost of maintenance + slip fees and cleaning is crazy. He's pretty well-off and has historically had lots of money pits but I think this by far is probably the biggest one. I think if he didn't have to worry about pay slip fees, it would be another story. And he also doesn't want to trailer it (and wouldn't have anywhere to store it too). Is that as much of a problem out in FL? I would tend to imagine not... but yea his has the T-Top which is actually nice but at the same time we don't get as strong of sunshine (though it is still easy to get burnt out there so I make sure I'm covered up when we go out). Parkers are sweet boats and definitely the most prolific boat private boaters prefer for hunting bluefin and other pelagics here in SoCal.

Crab snaring is a lot of fun - it's an alternative to dropping crab pots and is basically a small cage that you put squid/mackerel/scented bait in with 6 thick mono/nylon/weedwacker loops attached. The idea is that the crab will crawl up to the cage and start picking at the bait all while getting it's appendages inside the loops. After about 10-15mins of casting the snare out you "sweep-set the hook" relatively aggressively and reel, keeping pressure on, in hopes that the loops will have closed and cinched down onto one or more of the crab's appendages. It's quite effective and can be done from shore or pier. You have to be sufficient casting anywhere generally from 6-12oz of lead (usually including the weight of the snare and bait) and it can be scary. I've lost several home-made snares due to not being careful. Casting gloves or the Breakaway Canon is a necessity too unless you want to slice/burn your fingers lol.
Search for Fisherman's Life, More Than Fishing, Ish With Fish, ScorpionTube, or Die Hard Fishing and "Crab Snaring" to get an idea.

OK now crab snaring looks amazing, will have to try that next time on the northern west coast.  I looooove crabbing, grew up in MD so chicken necking was huge.  I wonder if that would work with stone crab here, not sure their legs are spindly enough.

We plan on trailering, too many places here in FL for specialized fishing.  Scalloping in the northern gulf in the summer, shrimping on the east coast this time of year, lobstering in the Keys in July etc.  Slips and storage are huge fees here, not as much as SoCal though.  However we can store it on the military posts, I can store it in Key West for 500 year dry, a bit more up here but still about 1k for the year dry.  DH is getting ready to drop retirement in a year or so and part of the boat agreement is that when he does retire he uses his GI bill to become a Yamaha tech, and to learn basic welding with the sole purpose of being able to do all the maintenance.  He's already pretty handy with electrical and stuff so those two should round out most maintenance. 

I fully anticipate this being a HUGE money pit.  This is his one ask over many years of me pushing FIRE and saving every dime though.

Just bear in mind to always check the local regs - for Dungeness it's pretty strict and if you're caught without a gauge (yes, a ruler/measuring tape won't cut it) and or crabs that are under-size (usually 5 3/4" across the West coast where crab snaring is permitted), you'll be heavily fined. As far as crab snares working for other crabs, I'm sure they do. In fact, someone who makes crab snares for sale posted a pic of a guy somewhere in Asia who caught a large mud crab using one of his snares. I think as long as the appendages are long enough to get inside any given loop, you'll be able to snare it. In Oregon and possibly Washington, I believe there may be no limit on the number of loops you can attach to a snare as well.

[anonymouscow]

Any reason you, he, or both couldn’t start smaller? It doesn’t seem necessary to go all in at once. I would want to do some testing of the line on my own. You could always do the testing and upload the videos for marketing. Some people will always shop for the name brand type of stuff no matter what. They could buy the exact same line and if one is cheaper and their line breaks, now they assume it’s because of the cheaper line (even if it wasn’t). If you start small and it’s a quality product, the word will eventually spread. I would have to really trust someone to go into business with them.