Author Topic: Bookcases  (Read 2899 times)

NaN

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Bookcases
« on: November 18, 2024, 08:08:25 PM »
So I'm going to throw this out there to either get either motivation or to just buy something. I'm kind of curious how this post experiment will turn out.

I used a furniture store design service to spec out some furniture. This place, while better than IKEA but is not 'high-end', and I rather have something well built and can last than a Wal-Mart shelf system. Their design service spec'd out a bookcase system on this ~12' wall. After six years living in our house in would be nice to get our favorite books off a 3' tall, 4' wide book shelf (stacked two deep), in two under bed bins, and scattered amongst our house. The one in the photo is on the lower price end, $5k, while other units can go up to $8k.

Has anyone had experience DIY your own book cases? Was it worth it? I have two kids less than 5 years old and my pre-kid self would tackle this with enthusiasm. My time when not working is spent with them or trying to manage some resemblance of relaxation.

1) Yes, I could get rid of all the books and not build or buy book shelves.
2) Yes, if I did not have a job then I would have more time.


neo von retorch

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #1 on: November 18, 2024, 08:23:13 PM »
I built a wall with built in bookcases and a middle set of shelves that rolled to the side to reveal a hidden room behind. Mix of plywood, drywall, pine as edge banding to give it a nicer look.

EDIT: Technique - note these are only ~7" on the sides and even less in the middle. Have vertical 2x6 planks around the doorway and at the edges. Made each vertical a small piece, the horizontals are full pieces. Everything is glued. Would put the middle piece in, then lay a shelf on top with glue where needed, add the end vertical supports, use a level and a speed square, and painter's tape to hold things in place, with some weight on the shelf while the glue set. Built from the bottom up that way. Total depth is from the 6" planks plus 1" edge banding and trim pieces.

Built the middle shelf in the garage ahead of time, then mounted it to the rail system.

Used pine trim around the edges.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2024, 07:57:23 AM by neo von retorch »

Wintergreen78

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2024, 09:57:52 PM »
That is a big unit to build yourself. If you’ve built furniture before and have tools, it isn’t complicated, but would take some time/attention to get a nice result. Plus, you’d need to track down good quality plywood, etc. etc.

I enjoy woodworking, but don’t have kids and have time to do it. Here is a plug for a writer/designer I appreciate. He wrote a whole book about reasonably simple furniture for your home that can be built with a pretty simple set of tools. These bookcases aren’t any bigger than what you have now, but could be scaled up to 6-8’ fairly easily.

https://blog.lostartpress.com/2016/12/15/boarded-bookshelf/

lthenderson

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2024, 04:52:13 AM »
I've built a large built-in bookcase at both houses I've owned. As far as DIY, it is one of the easiest pieces of furniture to build skill wise. I just start by building a carcass out of cabinet grade plywood glued and screwed together. They were built as smaller carcass units and then slid in place and fastened to each other. Once the carcasses were built, fastened to each other and to the wall, then I build a solid wood face frame that gets glued and pin nailed to the carcasses. This dresses up the look plus adds considerable amounts of strength to prevent the shelves from sagging over time like every single purchased solution I've ever owned. All this could be done with a single skilsaw, a cordless impact driver and a hammer. Then I just mask off the area, apply the finish and once it cures, load it up with books.




Sibley

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2024, 08:37:31 AM »
Do you have carpentry experience? There's a big difference between building a bookcase when you have no practical experience, and doing it when you've built a bunch of other things. Yes, bookcases are among the easier things to build but not if you don't know how to build anything to start with.

Frankly, the easiest-just-get-it-done-fast option is to buy IKEA Billy bookcases. As long as you don't move them around they hold up well.

nereo

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2024, 08:42:43 AM »
As an enthusiastic woodworker who has built several bookcases I feel comfortable making these two statements:

  • This is a project most handy DIYers can easily do
  • it’s very unlikely that you will be able to do it for less $ than a set of standard IKEA bookcases

So, why do it?  Well my top reasons are because I can build to the exact dimensions needed (“built-in”) and the style/look that I want. Oh, and I find it enjoyable. Once you’ve progressed to hardwood w/hardwood ply (jointed and planed yourself) you can build it for considerably less than what you’ll find available thru quality furniture stores, but it will take a couple weekends from rough lumber to sanding and finish.

Oh, and counterintuitively, building with standard hardwoods can be a lot easier than the less expensive softwood options, and finishing is more forgiving than painting. It’s easy to spend $400-600 on rough cut hardwood lumber for a bookcase that size. About half that if you are using sanded B/C ply from the big box store and “common boards” for the trim.

neo von retorch

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2024, 08:56:10 AM »
Oh yeah my hidden room project was probably ~$1500 though that includes $185 for the door rail, $400 in bedding, and some paint and lighting and other electrical.

2 x 6s, 2x4s and plywood and "common" pine boards added up to easily over $500. Plywood isn't exactly "cheap". Though my lumber costs also include the frame and plywood for the bed platform I built in the hidden movie room.

Moonwaves

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2024, 09:04:29 AM »
I've seen lots of "hacks" (ooh, how I have come to hate that word when used in this connection) around using Ikea Billy bookcases and then adding on trim to make it look more upscale. I think if you have enough of them together, including the extensions to make them taller and the corner units, that they look perfectly fine as is. However, it should also be noted there may be a good reason I am not employed as an interior designer.

Boll weevil

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2024, 10:33:51 AM »
I commissioned 2 bookcases from a cabinet maker and later built 6 more that matched the style.

If I recall correctly, first 2 were 92” tall x 36” wide x 9” deep (shallow to discourage 2 layers of books). Commissioned in 2013 for $1100 (which I believe included installation). Pine facing, 3/4” plywood shelves and sides, 1/2” plywood back. Everything painted white. Was happy with them but eventually needed more.

Next 6: built myself in my living room (literally… apartment dweller without a garage) with same overall construction, but different case dimensions:
- 2x 92” tall x 30” wide x 9” deep
- 1x 92” tall x 24” wide x 9” deep
- 2x 72” tall x 30” wide x 12” deep
- 1x (29”?) tall x (42”?) wide x (15”?) deep (this one is more of an entry table/shoe rack).
Didn’t contact the cabinet maker, but my estimate at the time (circa 2015) was he would’ve charged $3300. I had a coworker who had a 2 car garage sized wood shop and he helped me break down the lumber. I think all in I was about $1100 in materials and another $1000 in tools (clamps, sawhorses, router, cordless brad nailer, etc). Add in a bottle of scotch for the coworker and I still came out way ahead.

Since then I’ve built some more shelving using what I would call a “garage style” - basically thin luan plywood over a furr strip frame, and I’m considering building another wall mount unit using either the same method or 1x6 boards. No paint or finish.

In some ways the change of construction preference could be interpreted as me saying it wasn’t worth it, but I’m not sure that’s entirely true. For those first 2 sets, I was prioritizing appearance, while for the later builds I’ve been prioritizing build speed and strength.

NorCal

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2024, 11:09:22 AM »
I've built many things as a woodworker.

I can say with confidence that a DIY approach will be more expensive than any flat-pack furniture you buy.  In nearly any scenario.  I'm not current on prices, but I feel pretty confident on this.

The materials cost alone on nicer lumber will be multiples above the cost of Ikea or similar.

The reasons to DIY are for pride, quality, or specific fit you can't get in pre-built things. 


lthenderson

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2024, 08:19:25 AM »
Do you have carpentry experience? There's a big difference between building a bookcase when you have no practical experience, and doing it when you've built a bunch of other things. Yes, bookcases are among the easier things to build but not if you don't know how to build anything to start with.

Frankly, the easiest-just-get-it-done-fast option is to buy IKEA Billy bookcases. As long as you don't move them around they hold up well.

The top picture was probably the first project I ever built out of wood and I had no plans either. I just sketched it up on paper and using the above mentioned tools in my response, built the entire thing. The lower one, I had a few more projects under my belt including a lot more fancier tools like a track saw for breaking the plywood down and a table saw for getting straighter edges. From five feet away, I don't think anyone could tell the difference in experience or tools. If you took the books out of the first one and inspected the joint where the plywood meets the face frame, you would see some larger gaps and maybe pick up on the tool difference.

Like you said, flat pack furniture would be way faster and cheaper. They are also disposable which fills up landfills and uses lots of fossil fuels to create those pressed wood and plastic pieces. As you also mentioned, they don't tend to last long through moves and in my experience, will have sagging shelves shortly if filled with books. I don't begrudge anyone for choosing that route because I went that route for many years when I was less affluent.

I am no longer poor like I was back then and my tastes are hopefully a little bit more sophisticated these days. I like the built-in look and it probably adds value to my house when I go to sell it so I perhaps recoup a bit of the added expense back. The shelves never sag and are a lot deeper than most purchased options so my spouse can add her knick knacks in front of the books to dress things up a bit.

I think anyone who considers themself handy and enjoys DIY projects could build such a bookcase.

NorCal

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2024, 08:43:50 AM »
I've seen some people do a potential middle-ground between these approaches.

Some people buy standard Ikea bookcases as a base, and then mount them to walls, and use trimwork to make them look like built-ins.  It gives you a less expensive base to work with, and still looks custom in the end.

I don't know if I'd do this myself, but it's one option to consider.

NaN

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2024, 07:37:47 PM »
Nice @neo von retorch! Clever use of the sliding shelf. And those shelves are great, @lthenderson. Your photos do help motivate me to DIY.

In terms of my carpentry experience, @Sibley, I have enough to tackle it on my own. I don't have some of the tools I want, like a table saw. And @lthenderson, @NorCal, and @nereo, you are right that seems in line with what a DIY like myself could tackle. I've done enough work in my house over the last few years this would fit nicely in my theme.

My problem is finding the time, not my enthusiasm. Can any of you comment on how long it took? Also, did you fix the shelves or make them adjustable? I saw tools able to drill the adjustable shelf peg holes at the right spacing. Anything that makes it go faster, I am interested in it!

My other problem is the disruption in the living room and the likely fume smells from any stain bothering the family.
 
My ideal end product would be bookcases with a bottom row of cabinets for storing away kid stuff, like the design in this picture. This set is just above $4k ($5k for 17" deep) and made from a Pennsylvania woodworking shop and sold through Room & Board (called Woodwind bookcases). My opinion is manufacturing is better than Ikea, and the price to suggest it (though never a guarantee you get what you pay for these days).

The benefit of doing it myself is I could make it the dimension I want and have it built in. I have no intention of moving these bookcases, so it makes sense to build it in.

So far, the post is definitely giving me more to think about. Thanks everyone!

NorCal

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2024, 08:08:16 PM »
Nice @neo von retorch! Clever use of the sliding shelf. And those shelves are great, @lthenderson. Your photos do help motivate me to DIY.

In terms of my carpentry experience, @Sibley, I have enough to tackle it on my own. I don't have some of the tools I want, like a table saw. And @lthenderson, @NorCal, and @nereo, you are right that seems in line with what a DIY like myself could tackle. I've done enough work in my house over the last few years this would fit nicely in my theme.

My problem is finding the time, not my enthusiasm. Can any of you comment on how long it took? Also, did you fix the shelves or make them adjustable? I saw tools able to drill the adjustable shelf peg holes at the right spacing. Anything that makes it go faster, I am interested in it!

My other problem is the disruption in the living room and the likely fume smells from any stain bothering the family.
 
My ideal end product would be bookcases with a bottom row of cabinets for storing away kid stuff, like the design in this picture. This set is just above $4k ($5k for 17" deep) and made from a Pennsylvania woodworking shop and sold through Room & Board (called Woodwind bookcases). My opinion is manufacturing is better than Ikea, and the price to suggest it (though never a guarantee you get what you pay for these days).

The benefit of doing it myself is I could make it the dimension I want and have it built in. I have no intention of moving these bookcases, so it makes sense to build it in.

So far, the post is definitely giving me more to think about. Thanks everyone!

If I was quoting the time to my wife, I'd estimate 1 month to build.

If I was going on experience, I'd say this would take 6 months to a year.  Life happens in these projects. 

I recently built a dresser.  Cutting the basic frame took me about 7 months because I was distracted.  Then I decided to get serious and did all of the casework and five drawers in two weeks.  Time and effort are rarely linear in woodworking.

The nice thing about bookcases like this is you have lots of identical pieces.  Cutting 20 shelves the same size is easy once you have the tablesaw set up. 

Below is a link to a video tutorial from the Wood Whisperer guild.  I've built a few of their projects, and have always been happy with the quality of their content.

https://thewoodwhispererguild.com/product/one-two-sheet-bookcases/

neo von retorch

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2024, 10:15:12 PM »
My project took about 3 months and I was unemployed at the time. I spent quite a few hours on it each weekday, but was a bit casual about it. "Just" shelves should take less time than a wall with bed platform and barn door style sliding shelves.

While I used my table saw to rip common boards to use for trim, and to create the edge banding, everything else was cut via an inexpensive Ryobi miter saw. But I do own lots of clamps!

nereo

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #15 on: November 21, 2024, 05:06:48 AM »


My problem is finding the time, not my enthusiasm. Can any of you comment on how long it took? Also, did you fix the shelves or make them adjustable? I saw tools able to drill the adjustable shelf peg holes at the right spacing. Anything that makes it go faster, I am interested in it!



 I built something quite similar to your photo when I was living in a city apartment but before I had a kid. It took me about one month, working only on the weekends. Maybe 25 hours in total. I “cheated” and bought unfinished hardwood cabinets for the base (wall units, and I made a simple stand to raise them up to toe-kick height. Saved tons of time and to the casual eye looked like it was built alongside the bookshelves “uppers”.

I did not have a table saw, but did everything with a miter saw, circular saw (with homemade straight line jig) and a router. I didn’t do adjustable shelves but rather cut dados with the router and a flush trim bit. This made the cases much stronger, and personally I’ve always been a “set the shelves and forget it” kinda person. I used pocket holes to assemble the face frame because that’s the ideal use case and no one will ever see them!!

If I were doing adjustable shelving I  would definitely use a something like Kreg’s shelf jig (there are many others and you can make your own, but IME Kreg makes decent stuff for a fair price for projects just like this.

Gluck

lthenderson

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #16 on: November 21, 2024, 05:30:41 AM »
My problem is finding the time, not my enthusiasm. Can any of you comment on how long it took? Also, did you fix the shelves or make them adjustable? I saw tools able to drill the adjustable shelf peg holes at the right spacing. Anything that makes it go faster, I am interested in it!

My other problem is the disruption in the living room and the likely fume smells from any stain bothering the family.
 
My ideal end product would be bookcases with a bottom row of cabinets for storing away kid stuff, like the design in this picture. This set is just above $4k ($5k for 17" deep) and made from a Pennsylvania woodworking shop and sold through Room & Board (called Woodwind bookcases). My opinion is manufacturing is better than Ikea, and the price to suggest it (though never a guarantee you get what you pay for these days).

The benefit of doing it myself is I could make it the dimension I want and have it built in. I have no intention of moving these bookcases, so it makes sense to build it in.

So far, the post is definitely giving me more to think about. Thanks everyone!

I probably had two or three days worth of work for each, i.e. around 24 hours or so but both were spaced in 2 or 3 hour increments over several weeks.

I didn't use adjustable shelves for either built in bookcase. I knew ahead of time what was going to be on them and it is much easier to make them solid by making them permanently in place. But if I am putting shelving someplace where the items on them might change in size, I do put in adjustable shelving and I do use a jig to make it easier. I think my jig is from Rockler but the Kreg jig looks good too.

For the fumes, I just seal off the doorway with a sheet of plastic and my ZipWall spring clamps. They are a huge game changer when doing any DIY work in a lived in space. Open a window and stick in a fan for exhaust, preferably during a seasonable time of the year.

One note on your picture, if you do do bottom doors, do overlay and not inset as shown. Inset are a couple levels up in difficulty because it is difficult to get the gaps to look right unless you are very meticulous in your woodworking. Overlay doors are much much more forgiving.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2024, 06:28:36 AM by lthenderson »

sonofsven

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #17 on: November 21, 2024, 08:26:03 AM »
OP, you might consider a track saw instead of a table saw.
It's best to have a good size table saw and outfeed table when cutting down sheet goods; 3/4 ply is heavy.
With a track saw you only need a set of sawhorses.
I'm a pro carpenter and I use my track saw more than my table saw when breaking down sheet goods for built ins and closets.
I also buy prefinished plywood, because finishing carcasses inside and out is a PITA. I pre cut face frames and 1/4" x 3/4" fronts out of wood and my guy sprays them with lacquer (not a good homeowner option) if I'm on a big job. If I'm not, I buy varnish in a spray can and do a few coats.
The more you can finish (varnish, or whatever) your parts before you assemble them, the easier it will be.

Sibley

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #18 on: November 21, 2024, 08:54:50 AM »
I think it's going to boil down to what will you be willing to sacrifice in order to get your bookcases?

If you're willing to sacrifice the time to build them, then do so. And this is not just a decision you make - you need to discuss with your spouse. If they aren't willing to pick up the house and kid slack while you build bookcases, then it's not going to happen.

You have the ability. It's the time that is in question.

Archipelago

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #19 on: November 21, 2024, 09:20:18 AM »
PTF

nereo

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2024, 09:28:57 AM »
OP, you might consider a track saw instead of a table saw.
It's best to have a good size table saw and outfeed table when cutting down sheet goods; 3/4 ply is heavy.
With a track saw you only need a set of sawhorses.
I'm a pro carpenter and I use my track saw more than my table saw when breaking down sheet goods for built ins and closets.
I also buy prefinished plywood, because finishing carcasses inside and out is a PITA. I pre cut face frames and 1/4" x 3/4" fronts out of wood and my guy sprays them with lacquer (not a good homeowner option) if I'm on a big job. If I'm not, I buy varnish in a spray can and do a few coats.
The more you can finish (varnish, or whatever) your parts before you assemble them, the easier it will be.
+1 on a track saw over a table saw if you are buying tools.  Personally, I've found it easiest to skip the sawhorses entirely and just lay the ply on top of a sacrificial $20 sheet of rigid foam.  Set the depth of the cut  ~ 1/8" deeper than the ply (so ~7/8" for 3/4"* plywood) and rip away.  The plywood is supported through the whole cut and it reduces tear-out.  The rigid foam can be used for several projects.

If your budget won';t allow for the ~$500 track-saw, you can make a zero-clearance rip guide for a cheap circular saw for < $50 in < 15 minutes. I made one with an aluminum U channel (for straightness) and a scrap piece of plywood.  Make your first cut with the 'foot' of the circular saw along the aluminum straight edge and then you'll have a zero-clearance track for all future cuts.  All you have to do is set the depth of your plunge to the material you are cutting + the material thickness of your guide.

Oh, and if you want there are pre-made circular saw guides as well.

Boll weevil

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2024, 09:57:26 AM »
My recollection is that it took a couple months. I did them in 2 batches. The fact that it took up the majority of my living room forced me to finish it in a timely manner.

For the adjustable shelves, I bought shelf pins and drilled holes on the inner sides of the carcass. If you go this route, drill holes in a board of appropriate length to keep the spacing consistent, and label which ends go up/down. I tried using the Kreg shelf pin jig along the entire length for the first unit I built and and it didn’t end well. Some of that may have been user error due to inexperience, but you’re more likely to get consistent locations from a single story stick compared to moving the jig every 5-6 holes.

For the finish, I used Sherwin Williams alkyd paint. It was pricy but alkyds are the recommended type for shelving and I can see why… it’s held up very well.

neo von retorch

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2024, 11:13:45 AM »
My project took about 3 months...

Circling back to this. Because memory / estimates are generally not my strong suit :)

Sept 18th - first photos of tearing up some trim where bed platform would go
Sept 19th - first coat of paint on walls that will end up inside hidden room
Sept 21st - build scaffold that runs across top of shelves
Sept 22nd - installed scaffolding, vertical 2x6" planks
Sept 26th - installed drywall inside hidden room / backing of bookshelves
Oct 1st - began installing plywood shelves; cut into wooden sawhorse accidentally
Oct 2nd - cutting out "cubbie" holes in drywall inside of room (storage above the shelf area)
Oct 3rd - continue install plywood shelves
Oct 4th - plywood shelves are done

Oct 6th - installed plywood inside each cubbie area
Oct 7th - built bed platform
Oct 13th - beginning building rolling bookshelf
Oct 14th - continue building (add backing)
Oct 15th - glue together internal shelves of rolling bookshelf

Oct 17th - inside is (mostly) done - watched our first movie
Oct 19th - attempt to make stairs for aging Mastiff
Oct 22nd - edge banding on rolling bookcase
Oct 23rd - trim on a little shelf inside
Oct 24th - paint
Oct 26th - begin edge banding on stationary shelves
Oct 28th - rail for rolling shelves, trial install
Oct 29th - continue edge banding


I won't continue - this is kind of a "good enough" point where I took a break for a while, and eventually we did some more painting and putting things on the shelves!

I bolded the bookshelf focused things so you can get an idea of how many "work days" were involved in just those portions.

Fru-Gal

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2024, 01:44:58 PM »
Wow @neo von retorch that is so creative to use a rail door system for a bookshelf! It’s kind of how my local hardware store is set up. Seems a bit more foolproof than the bookshelf door on hinges, but you sacrifice the depth of course.

Personally have always wanted floor to ceiling shelves with a rolling library ladder. But none of the rooms in my house are particularly big. I also have the famous IKEA cubby bookcase which I do love. One hack is you stack a second one on top (or a slightly smaller one with 3 rows of cubes instead of 4), anchor it all to the wall.

But frankly I am super impressed with your built-ins!

NaN

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2024, 09:10:20 PM »
Ooof, @nereo and @lthenderson. One, to two, to many months is a lot. I hear @Sibley like she is my spouse's inner conscious on what she knows she'll have to do as I mention the idea of building bookcases.

If I were to do this myself, then I would have to have it well thought out before even beginning.

nereo

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2024, 06:56:58 AM »
Ooof, @nereo and @lthenderson. One, to two, to many months is a lot. I hear @Sibley like she is my spouse's inner conscious on what she knows she'll have to do as I mention the idea of building bookcases.

If I were to do this myself, then I would have to have it well thought out before even beginning.

Yup, it’s a lot of time on the calendar, but remember it’s not that many days. I worked on the built in bookshelves for 2-4 hours one or two days a week, always on the weekends.

I’m pretty sure with the experience level I have now I could do the whole build in two-days (Saturday and Sunday) all the way down to sanding and the first coat of finish. I’d probably need another few hours the next weekend to do the final cot and assembly. So 9 calendar days but just two full days and two days for an hour or two. 

As I said above, for mid-level functionality you can’t build for less than why you can buy at IKEA… you have to enjoy the process of woodworking (and I do!) for it to make sense.

Wintergreen78

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2024, 09:12:24 AM »
Ooof, @nereo and @lthenderson. One, to two, to many months is a lot. I hear @Sibley like she is my spouse's inner conscious on what she knows she'll have to do as I mention the idea of building bookcases.

If I were to do this myself, then I would have to have it well thought out before even beginning.

Yup, it’s a lot of time on the calendar, but remember it’s not that many days. I worked on the built in bookshelves for 2-4 hours one or two days a week, always on the weekends.

I’m pretty sure with the experience level I have now I could do the whole build in two-days (Saturday and Sunday) all the way down to sanding and the first coat of finish. I’d probably need another few hours the next weekend to do the final cot and assembly. So 9 calendar days but just two full days and two days for an hour or two. 

As I said above, for mid-level functionality you can’t build for less than why you can buy at IKEA… you have to enjoy the process of woodworking (and I do!) for it to make sense.

1-2 months start to finish is a pretty good estimate if you can only work on it in 1-2 hour chunks a few days each week. I just made myself a desk and I picked up the lumber for it in early October.

Also, think about where you can set up to work on it - do you have a place to leave things out, or will you need to stack up parts/put them away at the end of each work session?

Sibley

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2024, 10:27:48 AM »
I am extremely practical. Yes, it might not be much time, but also, consider the impact that the project would have on the space and other issues. There will be more cleaning needed for example.

I'm not saying don't do it. I am saying, you need to be aware and make sure that you're ok with the tradeoffs. And since you're not the only person living there, you need to consider them as well. That said, in your place I'd probably build them.

Cranky

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2024, 03:09:45 PM »
I found a neighborhood carpenter to build 3 ladder style bookcases for $100 each, but he was a rare find.

I’d look around for an unfinished furniture store and buy something solid and make it look built in with trim. That would surely be less than $5k. We bought some unfinished bookcases when we got married almost 50 years ago, stained them, and have moved them cross country multiple times.

But IKEA has plenty of furniture that isn’t particle board.

lthenderson

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2024, 05:23:04 AM »
My biggest issue with using prebought shelving and fastening hardwood to the front to make it appear built in is that much of the prebuilt bookcase material is pressed wood of low quality that doesn't hold fasteners well. It is also finished with adhesive backed edge banding whose surface is finished which doesn't allow adhesives like glue to stick really well when applying the hardwood face framing. So to be effective, one has to sand through the edge banding to apply the adhesive and then you are still adhering onto pressed wood which is not a strong joint. Also, the most expensive part of a built in bookcase material wise, is the hardwood face framing material, even at today's high plywood prices. Really the only big savings to me is the labor involved in building the rough case which is perhaps the least time consuming aspect of building a built in bookcase. Finishing the project is probably the biggest labor aspect and one would have to do that in both cases and it would be tough to match the finish of the face frame to the factory laminate applied to press wood prebuilt bookcases.

NaN

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #30 on: November 26, 2024, 08:24:20 PM »
I was reading a thread on Reddit regarding the latest Billy book shelf 'quality'. Apparently they had a change in build quality and people are not happy about it. Building a front on top of that seems like it would look a bit wonky.

Yeah, in concept this sounds super easy. There are few vertical pieces the shelves attach to. A top and bottom piece, the shelves, and the trim around the front.

Would you guys use pocket screw jigs for attaching the skeleton horizontal pieces at top/bottom? Pocket holes for the shelves or just cleats? Or Dado grooves for sliding in the shelf? The last one seems a bit hard as those have to be cut before install. The other option is the adjustable shelving pins.

Would the skeletons sit on top of a wood base just like a cabinet?

The track saw sounds great. What are other "nice to have" tools for this job? I like ZipWall idea.

lthenderson

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2024, 06:22:14 AM »
I use pocket screws and glue for holding on the face frame to the carcass if I can put them in unseen locations. They are faster than waiting for glue to dry and messing around with lots of bar clamps. They have bandy clamps now that are much easier to use but are pretty expensive to buy enough to get even pressure.

I would not use pocket screws to hold up shelves. With the pocket needed for the screw, I have found it becomes the point of failure when loading perpendicular to the screw such as a heavy shelf load of books.i prefer shelf pins for movable shelving or dadoes for fixed shelving.For light duty shelving, screwing from the outside of the case into the shelving through predrilled holes works too. I use predrilled holes because sometimes screws can split the shelf material causing weak points of failure too.

Radagast

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Re: Bookcases
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2024, 01:00:17 AM »
I don't have the experience building book cases others have, though I've made a number of shelves of different types and finishes. But I have a couple tips.

A shelf's resistance to sagging (which many probably already know) = depth x thickness x thickness x thickness / 12
(or B x H^3 / 12)

For every time you double it's thickness, it will sag 8x less. So a 1/2" thick shelf will sag over 3x more than a 3/4" thick shelf of the same size and material. A 1/2" shelf will sag 8x more than a 1" shelf.

My favorite shelving material is a 12"x48" bullnosed stair step 1" thick.
https://www.homedepot.com/p/EVERMARK-Stair-Parts-48-in-x-11-1-2-in-x-1-in-Unfinished-Red-Oak-Plain-Cut-No-Return-Engineered-Stair-Tread-8530R-048-HD00L/202088436
or
https://www.homedepot.com/p/EVERMARK-Stair-Parts-48-in-x-11-1-2-in-x-1-in-Unfinished-Pine-Plain-Cut-Engineered-Stair-Tread-8503E-048-HD00L/202087175

These make a real solid shelf that will sag 8x less than 1/2" plywood. It will even sag less than 3/4" plywood with a 1x2 face. The extra thickness also makes an extra classy and solid above-and-beyond look compared to standard 1/2" or 3/4" shelves. You can also use that extra strength to go the full 4 feet wide if you want. They have a nice looking nose that doesn't need extra finishing. They may be a little more expensive, but the time and material savings of not nailing a 1x2 to the front and sanding it flush more than makes up for that. Plus I like not having that irritating space-eating recess behind the 1x2. Also it is easier to get a screw into a full 1" thick if you go that route. Choose either oak or pine depending on your desired finish. I've always used pine but note it dents pretty easily while working on it. Finally, you can buy round pieces that exactly match the thickness and bull nose if you want to go around an outside corner or add some round bits for whatever reason (pine only). https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-in-x-2-ft-x-2-ft-Pine-Edge-Glued-Panel-Round-Common-Softwood-Boards-682527/202017012

When building your shelf, especially in dryer climates, you may notice some of your shelf boards bow up in the middle. Put those where you expect the heaviest loads with the bow facing up in proportion to how heavy you anticipate for each shelf. That way once they sag the two will cancel out and they will look great. This is called camber, and bridges are built several inches too high in the center on purpose so that they will attain the right grade once the sagging process is complete along the same principle.

Finally, my personal preference is for adjustable shelves using this inset/recessed style metal rail (except a brass /aged finish), if it matches your look:



 

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