Author Topic: Wood Stove (Read 13175 times)

ThatGuyFromCanada · « **on:** August 30, 2012, 12:50:09 PM »

I'm considering installing a wood- or pellet-burning stove in my house to offset the high cost of heating in the fall/winter/spring. Our basement especially gets very cold and it's unbearable to be down there without having the space-heater going 8-10hrs per day.

Has anyone installed their own wood stove? I'd likely install it in the basement and would need to deal with below-grade venting and I"m interested to hear if anyone else has done this. I'm also open to other heating suggestions.

SweetTPi · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2012, 02:23:46 PM »

No real experience with installing a wood stove, but I grew up in Pennsylvania in a house that was wood-heated, although we also had an oil furnace that ran (as a backup when not home, when having the fireplace going would be uncomfortable, etc.) We had a high-efficiency fireplace insert on the first floor, with an integrated fan to draw in and heat the room air. It worked okay- I'm a bit biased as I had the bedroom furthest from the fire, and it could get chilly at night when the fire died down. We would go through several cords of seasoned wood a year- a local guy had a tree removal business and he would haul, season, split, and deliver the wood. The cost was low, mainly because we lived in a fairly wooded area and trees were consistently coming down.

I'm mentioning this as an option- it likely won't be as effective in Calgary as it is in Pennsylvania, but if you already have a fireplace, it might be a good way to supplement your heating.

sol · « **Reply #2 on:** September 05, 2012, 09:30:29 AM »

Check your local ordinances carefully. Where I live, there's an active anti-wood-stove campaign for air quality reasons. Only some kinds are legal, all kinds are discouraged.

ThatGuyFromCanada · « **Reply #3 on:** September 05, 2012, 10:08:15 AM »

Sol, that's interesting. Were a lot of people switching over?
I did some brief checking on local ordinances and it all seems reasonable. Only new factory-built stoves/fireplaces can be installed in dwellings, and there is a permit/inspection process as well.

wiferkhart · « **Reply #4 on:** September 05, 2012, 11:59:18 AM »

As an alternative to the wood/pellet stove, maybe look into a masonry heater?

Posthumane · « **Reply #5 on:** September 05, 2012, 01:45:28 PM »

Jon, one thing to check into is insurance. My dad has a house in Calgary with a wood stove in the basement, and he ended up having to unhook the chimney and block it off to make it unusable because the fire insurance would end up being a lot more expensive with it in place. I don't recall how much extra he would have to pay, but it might not be worth it if you're trying to offset the costs of heating. Better gas heating might be a better option since gas in Alberta is cheap. You may also be able to get some gov't rebates for things like better insulation.

ThatGuyFromCanada · « **Reply #6 on:** September 05, 2012, 02:00:14 PM »

Quote from: Posthumane on September 05, 2012, 01:45:28 PM

Jon, one thing to check into is insurance. My dad has a house in Calgary with a wood stove in the basement, and he ended up having to unhook the chimney and block it off to make it unusable because the fire insurance would end up being a lot more expensive with it in place. I don't recall how much extra he would have to pay, but it might not be worth it if you're trying to offset the costs of heating. Better gas heating might be a better option since gas in Alberta is cheap. You may also be able to get some gov't rebates for things like better insulation.

I'm surprised that the cost of insurance would outdo the benefits of it, but I could see insurance companies being wary of wood heating. Thanks for the heads up.

strider3700 · « **Reply #7 on:** September 13, 2012, 01:16:13 AM »

In Nanaimo BC insurance is about $60/year for my certified fireplace insert so long as I burn about 1 cord/year. Go over that and you run the risk of it not being a back up heat source and insurance goes way up. Due to my stove being an insert and the chimney needing modified I paid for the install on this stove. It took 2 pro's 6 hours to get it installed. whoever built the chimney built it to outlast just about everything, they used 1/2" plate to make up the damper. the guys told me they normally see 1/8 or 3/16" plates... To comply with regulations these days they had to run a stainless liner from roof to basement and put a spark arrestor on the top. It was about $3500 in the end.

twa2w · « **Reply #8 on:** September 15, 2012, 08:57:30 PM »

When you install a wood stove in a basement, you must make sure the chimney is higher than the height of your roof.

Also - if you vent it through a wall then up outside teh house, you will likely have to warm up the chimney before you light the stove - take a roll of newspaper, light it, and hold it in the stove near the pipe that leads to the chimney. This starts an updraft of warm air and will then lead the smoke up and out. Other wise the stove thinks the house is the chimney - the cold air coming down the chimney will make the house fill up with smoke as it follows warm air up through the house. Ask me how I know :-).

And if you think wood stove will save on heat there are lots of jokes about by the time you pay for the chainsaw, sharpening, and the axe, the splitter etc and the pickup truck to haul it, you never come out ahead.
Make sure you get a good air tight stove other wise more heat may go up the chimney than warms the house.

Wood heat warms you twice - once when you split it...
and better than a treadmill for exercise :-)
Cheers

jawisco · « **Reply #9 on:** September 17, 2012, 06:36:40 PM »

I have installed a wood stove and it is doable as a do-it-yourself project, but I would consult with someone who knows better than you do ahead of time and then have someone look over your final installation. A fire inside a house is a big deal and not to be taken lightly.

Something I have done with projects like this is to consult with a contractor whose work I respect or have been recommended to about what the best way to install it is and pay the contractor well for his/her time. Many contractors are glad to help you out with ideas or expertise or rough estimates of costs. If you pay them the going rate ($75-100/hour), they are happy to make some money and not get dirty.

It is a good point that wood heat is not always the cheapest, especially when you factor in your time and mess, but I think it is a very comfortable heat and I prefer it over all others, except when I am feeling lazy.

Barry · « **Reply #10 on:** September 21, 2012, 04:08:51 PM »

Hey Jon,

I called my insurance provider here in Calgary (Meloche), and it was around $150 / yr extra insurance, with a top limit of 4 cords burned per year. Above 4 cords per year they would not provide any insurance.

I did a bit of math, and I could do about 75% of my heating for the year on 4 cords with a high-efficiency unit tied into the central heating system.

Cheers,
- Barry

HeidiO · « **Reply #11 on:** September 22, 2012, 10:23:27 PM »

We had one installed a few years ago. Where we are the insurance co required a licensed installer to do it, or we might not be covered if there was a claim.
Heidi

twa2w · « **Reply #12 on:** September 24, 2012, 08:22:49 PM »

In Calgary you need a city permit to install one and IIRC you need an outside air source for the stove - this may involve putting a hole in your wall and running a pipe to the wood stove.. Also the chimney has to reach higher than the peak of the house. (important if putting the lower level of a split level home - need to ensure chimney exceeds height of tallest part of house.)
Cheers

Barry · « **Reply #13 on:** October 01, 2012, 02:18:06 PM »

Quote from: Barry on September 21, 2012, 04:08:51 PM

Hey Jon,

I called my insurance provider here in Calgary (Meloche), and it was around $150 / yr extra insurance, with a top limit of 4 cords burned per year. Above 4 cords per year they would not provide any insurance.

I did a bit of math, and I could do about 75% of my heating for the year on 4 cords with a high-efficiency unit tied into the central heating system.

Cheers,
- Barry

I found my notes, and figured I'd update this for reference. The total was $115 / yr as long no more than 4 cords were burned per year.

ThatGuyFromCanada · « **Reply #14 on:** October 01, 2012, 02:28:37 PM »

Interesting, $115/yr isn't that much at all really.

I'm going to hold off for now, the starting price of stoves around here seems to be in the $1,500 range and we're likely not going to be in the house long enough to make up the difference. The city bylaws state that second-hand stoves are only acceptable for dwellings w/o a sleeping area so there aren't many options there.

strider3700 · « **Reply #15 on:** October 01, 2012, 04:08:14 PM »

Canadian tire has a few EPA approved stoves starting in the $600 range. Home hardware also carries a few. They may not be as nice or large enough for what you need but they're not a bad place to start researching. The more expensive models tend to be more efficient in their wood usage and/or cleaner burning. It they're worth that increased price depends a lot on how much wood you'll be burning.

trammatic · « **Reply #16 on:** October 03, 2012, 06:21:03 AM »

Funny thing, I helped a buddy of mine price a new basement wood stove addition (including chimney), and it was around th $4000 range, adding 4 cords per year at $150 each is a $600/year operating cost. After doing some math, we realized that it was much cheaper for him to put in a DIY geothermal heat pump in the long run. All-in, materials were about $6,000, and renting a backhoe for the day to lay the horizantal pipe field was another $500. It costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $40/month to run in the winter months (Nov - Mar)which is about $200/year, and it saves on the A/C costs for the summer. It's a 7-year break even for just heat alone, and probably half that for heat and cool.

And back to to the OP, my in-law's had a basement that needed constant space heating in the winter as well. We did a complete reno down there including using 1/2" foam insulation between the cinder blocks and the drywall. We also put in a radiant floor heating system in, but we never hooked up the pipes! The insulation gave it about a 15 degree bump down there, and it became comfortable. So ripping out drywall and reinstalling it with insulation is labor intensive, but relatively cheap in terms of bang for the buck.

strider3700 · « **Reply #17 on:** October 03, 2012, 11:11:31 AM »

Quote from: trammatic on October 03, 2012, 06:21:03 AM

Funny thing, I helped a buddy of mine price a new basement wood stove addition (including chimney), and it was around th $4000 range, adding 4 cords per year at $150 each is a $600/year operating cost. After doing some math, we realized that it was much cheaper for him to put in a DIY geothermal heat pump in the long run. All-in, materials were about $6,000, and renting a backhoe for the day to lay the horizantal pipe field was another $500. It costs somewhere in the neighborhood of $40/month to run in the winter months (Nov - Mar)which is about $200/year, and it saves on the A/C costs for the summer. It's a 7-year break even for just heat alone, and probably half that for heat and cool.

They payback period on my woodstove is way out there for reasons you mentioned. I however used to have an electric only house. One winter the power went out. 4 days later the power came back on. I hadn't froze to death and there was no permanent damage to the plumbing but I swore I'd never be in a house that would only stay warm if the power was on. It was a very crappy 4 days.

babar · « **Reply #18 on:** October 24, 2012, 09:08:44 PM »

Look into a brick-based rocket mass heater. Not only does it use 1/2-1/4 the amount of wood it burns so hot that the only waste is CO2 and moisture. Due to the mass and air flow most of the heat transfers to the brick and radiates out, so a small load of wood will be totally burned up and then radiates for 12-18 hours.

While you can feed it pellets, it works great with "trash" wood- small pieces you can get from tree trimmers for example. You likely could get a few loads from a company for free (if they have to pay to dump normally), and you let it dry a little or not, it'll burn up! The way the airflow is designed, it pulls air past the wood so there's no smoke in the house. You can install a fresh air inlet from outside that feeds directly to the furnace as well. These are much more common in Europe, and some are built as works of art with decorative metal around them.

ThatGuyFromCanada · « **Reply #19 on:** October 30, 2012, 06:40:44 AM »

I would love to do a rocket-mass heater but as I understand it there are no building code provisions for it. We're planning to sell the house in a few years and so this isn't an optimal strategy.

We did find a fantastic, no-cost way to improve the temperature in our basement though: leave the door to the furnace room open! We have a small basement with the furnace room/laundry room built together accessed by one door and another access through a closet door into the bathroom. By leaving both of these doors open the airflow increased dramatically and I would say we've seen a 5-10C jump in the temperature.

rusty · « **Reply #20 on:** November 01, 2012, 05:08:04 AM »

2.5 years ago, I purchased a used taylor manufacturing wood fire water heater. You install it outside and have the circulating water lines installed about 1 foot below ground (I'm in the southeast US). It sends the hot water (190 degrees) into a heat exchanger in your venting system. It's nice because the unit it about 100' from my house. No risk of fire. Some of my friends use it for hot water also.
http://www.taylormfg.com/

Those pellet ones would be nice. I would not have to put wood in the heater twice a day, but since I work from home it's okay.

A guy at the manufacturer (about 45 miles from me) said they ship a lot of their products up north. This year I will reach breakeven with install costs vs savings from fuel oil.

I live in a 150+ year old house, so it's not so tight. This was the most economical way to heat our house.

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Author Topic: Wood Stove (Read 13175 times)

HeidiO