Will these tires fit? Investigating bent rim

[cdgreg]

Hi all, trying to troubleshoot my wife's 2013 Toyota Venza shaking at high speeds (think 75+ on the thruway, or 65+ on rougher country roads).  You really feel it in the steering wheel.  We've had a mechanic we trust check it out, and they said the only thing they can think of is there is one bent rim, which cannot be properly balanced even with maximum weight added.  We have had this wheel on the back of the vehicle for a few years to minimize any shakiness and really don't notice anything below 75 MPH.  Of course, the OEM rims on the Venza XLE are fancy 20" wheels (245/50/R20), and even a replica replacement is $300.  I want to be 100% sure it's the rim before investing. 

Tell me if this will work for theory testing.  I have 3 season 265/65/R17s on my 4runner which I'm about to unbolt and take off to bolt on the winter tires/wheels.  Can I temporarily bolt the perfectly fine 265/65/R17 tires (already on on OEM toyota rims) on the Venza and then drive it?  Theoretically, if they'd fit, and then there's no shaking, then it's the bent rim and I'll replace it.

Thanks for any feedback! 

[sonofsven]

It's worth a try. I had one tire that was out of round and it shook pretty bad at speed. I ended up getting all new tires.

[HPstache]

A couple of things to consider:

First the 4runner tire is about an inch taller than the venza one... why are you moving 3 of them over instead of 4?  If it is AWD it can be harmful to run one tire of a different diameter because the differential will be constantly slipping to make up for the difference... so move all 4 over.

Second: is the lug nut bolt count and spacing the same?  Most likely?

Finally:  Rims have what is called an offset which is the measurement from the centerline of the wheel to its mounting surface.  If the offset is way off it can cause the rim to grind on the caliper or the tire to rub on the splash guards, etc.  So may sure check clearances before you go out for your joy ride.

[Paper Chaser]

The Venza has 5 lug wheels, and the 4Runner has 6 lug wheels. They're not interchangeable.

Venza:


4 Runner:

[Paper Chaser]

How new are the tires, and what brand? Do they show any uneven wear? Do they have any obvious damage like chunks missing or sidewall bulges?

With decent OEM wheels and quality tires, it should be possible to balance them out without much weight added. If places are adding a bunch of weight just to balance them in the first place that's not a great sign. It could reflect a quality issue with the wheel or tire, but it could also be poor workmanship by whoever balanced them out too.

[chemistk]

You have other options:

-(If you have one) - swap the suspect wheel with the spare.
-Swap the front wheels for the back ones (you should be rotating them regularly anyway), see if the shaking feels worse.
-Got to a reputable tire shop and ask them to check for a bent rim. They should be able to take the tires, inspect, and put them back on in less than 30 minutes.

I definitely wouldn't put your 4Runner wheels on, even if they seem to fit. And especially don't if you have AWD, that's an easy way to put way too much unnecessary strain on the rear diff.

If "a few years" is more than 4, I would also think about getting a new set of tires for the Venza. Signs of UV/heat/age damage start to show up around the 5 year mark, and with 20" rims you're a good candidate for a blowout.

[Dave1442397]

Rotate the tires on the Venza (front to back). If the vibration in the steering wheel goes away, you know it's one of the tires you just moved to the back. Now swap front and rear tires on one side only. If the vibration comes back, it's the tire you just moved to the front. If it doesn't, it's caused by the tire that's now on the rear on the other side of the car.

Sometimes you just get a bad tire. If no one can figure out whether it's the tire or the rim that's the problem, you could just buy a new (or used) rim and have a new tire mounted.

[lthenderson]

Good advice above for diagnosing. Just thought I would throw out one more thing to check while swapping tires. I had a CV boot fail on one of my vehicles and a blob of grease landed on the inside of the rim and was enough to cause significant vibrations.

[Just Joe]

Once you know which wheel, they can remove the tire and spin balance check the wheel alone. Also, they can lay the handle of a screwdriver on the wheel or the wheel/tire combo. Then spin it on the machine. Holding the screwdriver by the tip with your fingers, if the handle bounces, the wheel or tire are out of round. If it bounces, then remove the tire and use the same method to check the wheel alone. Old tire machine method.

The proper way involves a dial indicator on the wheel but this will ID a problem. Sometimes you don't need accuracy, just an indicator. 

Also, check all the shocks for leakage. Also bounce the body. A worn shock will allow a wheel to hop all over the place and this will lead to bad wear problems on the tire plus vibrations.

Just did shocks on our good car a couple months ago. Due to DIY scheduling problems I had to live with the bad shock for a couple of weeks. Shock oil contaminated the front brake pads too.

[JAYSLOL]

Once you know which wheel, they can remove the tire and spin balance check the wheel alone. Also, they can lay the handle of a screwdriver on the wheel or the wheel/tire combo. Then spin it on the machine. Holding the screwdriver by the tip with your fingers, if the handle bounces, the wheel or tire are out of round. If it bounces, then remove the tire and use the same method to check the wheel alone. Old tire machine method.

The proper way involves a dial indicator on the wheel but this will ID a problem. Sometimes you don't need accuracy, just an indicator. 

Also, check all the shocks for leakage. Also bounce the body. A worn shock will allow a wheel to hop all over the place and this will lead to bad wear problems on the tire plus vibrations.

Just did shocks on our good car a couple months ago. Due to DIY scheduling problems I had to live with the bad shock for a couple of weeks. Shock oil contaminated the front brake pads too.

Just went through a similar thing on my hyundai last year, it’s had a very minor power steering leak for a few years, like very minor, I think i topped it up every quarter or so and used like one soda can size bottle of power steering fluid over 3 years.  I just never got around to fixing it, turns out it was only an o ring that dried out, but that fluid that leaked went onto the plastic timing cover and swelled the plastic until it touched all the accessory belts and pulleys which caused squeaking.  I DIYed it, but by the time I was done I had spent 3 weekends, and replaced the serpentine belt, pulleys and tensioner, the timing belt, pulleys and tensioner, the harmonic balancer, water pump and the two part plastic timing cover.  Some of that was preventative/since I was in there, but it definitely could have been easier and cheaper if I had just replaced the 25cent o ring right away. 

[Just Joe]

That sounds about right. Some DIY tasks take forever. At least there was probably a significant cost savings. But you are right, replacing the O-ring early on would have been better.

I have a master cylinder that is leaking a tiny bit inside the car's interior. I'll replace it and remove carpet to clean/check floorboards for a hydraulic fluid paint attack. Floorboards are rust free after 22 years and I want them to stay that way. We're far from done with this car. Weather, spare time, short evenings now and eldest needs car until they are able to complete a repair on their own car. Scheduling is fun.

 

[JAYSLOL]

That sounds about right. Some DIY tasks take forever. At least there was probably a significant cost savings. But you are right, replacing the O-ring early on would have been better.

I have a master cylinder that is leaking a tiny bit inside the car's interior. I'll replace it and remove carpet to clean/check floorboards for a hydraulic fluid paint attack. Floorboards are rust free after 22 years and I want them to stay that way. We're far from done with this car. Weather, spare time, short evenings now and eldest needs car until they are able to complete a repair on their own car. Scheduling is fun.

Brake fluid is brutal on paint, so you definitely want to make sure it hasn’t opened up the floor to starting to rust.  Yeah, if I had the dealer do the work the parts and labour would have easily exceeded the ($4k) value of the car, “mechanically totalling” it.  Even over a much less expensive independent shop I easily saved $1500 in labour. 

[HPstache]

That sounds about right. Some DIY tasks take forever. At least there was probably a significant cost savings. But you are right, replacing the O-ring early on would have been better.

I have a master cylinder that is leaking a tiny bit inside the car's interior. I'll replace it and remove carpet to clean/check floorboards for a hydraulic fluid paint attack. Floorboards are rust free after 22 years and I want them to stay that way. We're far from done with this car. Weather, spare time, short evenings now and eldest needs car until they are able to complete a repair on their own car. Scheduling is fun.

Brake fluid is brutal on paint, so you definitely want to make sure it hasn’t opened up the floor to starting to rust.  Yeah, if I had the dealer do the work the parts and labour would have easily exceeded the ($4k) value of the car, “mechanically totalling” it.  Even over a much less expensive independent shop I easily saved $1500 in labour.

Actually the new stuff, DOT 5, does not really affect paint especially paint you cant see (under carpet)

[JAYSLOL]

That sounds about right. Some DIY tasks take forever. At least there was probably a significant cost savings. But you are right, replacing the O-ring early on would have been better.

I have a master cylinder that is leaking a tiny bit inside the car's interior. I'll replace it and remove carpet to clean/check floorboards for a hydraulic fluid paint attack. Floorboards are rust free after 22 years and I want them to stay that way. We're far from done with this car. Weather, spare time, short evenings now and eldest needs car until they are able to complete a repair on their own car. Scheduling is fun.

Brake fluid is brutal on paint, so you definitely want to make sure it hasn’t opened up the floor to starting to rust.  Yeah, if I had the dealer do the work the parts and labour would have easily exceeded the ($4k) value of the car, “mechanically totalling” it.  Even over a much less expensive independent shop I easily saved $1500 in labour.

Actually the new stuff, DOT 5, does not really affect paint especially paint you cant see (under carpet)

Cool, learn something new every day

[cdgreg]

Hey all, OP here, thanks so much for all the feedback.  Sorry for the delayed response, super busy week.  First off, I feel like a moron not looking at the bolt pattern.  I stupidly assumed they were both the traditional 5 bolt that has been on numerous previous Toyotas we had.  The 4R is a 6 bolt, so that's a no-go on my initial plan.  The Venza is the AWD model.

@Paper Chaser - The tires are Goodyear Viva 3 All-Seasons and were purchased in February 2021.  They have about 15,000 miles on them. 

@chemistk - The shakiness was worse previously, it became better (now only noticeable at high speeds) once the un-balanceable wheel was rotated to the back.  I may have a completely separate shop inspect the tires & wheels for a purely second opinion.

@Dave1442397 - Neat ideas on how to help narrow, thank you.

@Just Joe - Thank you, I may print this and bring it to the local shop if I go this route and ask them to try this.

Thank you to everyone else as well!

[NaN]

@cdgreg - you may also want to consider a damaged, bent, or defective CV axle. I had one side replaced on my ~2010 Forrester to fix some clanking sound. The new axle seemed to have removed the old disturbing sounds. However, the very next weekend I took a trip and had very violent shaking of the steering wheel at high speeds, very similar to what you describe (all which did not exist prior to the replacement). I had the CV axle replaced again and it fixed the issue.