What do you think of shark bite fittings for plumbing repairs?

[jnw]

A couple years back we had a plumber come out to replace a worn out faucet out in the backyard.

He replaced it with a rounded handle, long stemmed faucet.  The stem was at least 8 inches long or so, enough to go through the wall and turn the water on and off inside the house -- we have extreme weather here.

He used a shark bite fitting.

According to these plumbers on youtube shark bite is perfectly fine if done right.  What do you think? Here is their video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCBV5nUSMPc

Btw, we are having a problem with the faucet, having to replace the o-ring every few months.  Have to turn the faucet really hard to try and and turn it off.. but now it is again at the point no matter how hard we turn it it still leaks wasting lots of money each month. 

He's going to replace the o-ring today again.

I am just wondering if there is better faucet hardware perhaps and thinking about paying $350 or so for a plumber to come out and replace as well as get rid of the shark bite fitting -- welding the copper instead.

I am growing tired of the hassle of the faucet out back and the potential risk of flooding.  Is it possible to get a faucet that won't leak and doesn't need o-ring replaced more than say once every other year?  I am thinking $350 would totally be worth it to put this hassle behind me, assuming I get a plumber which installs a decent faucet.

EDIT: I can't afford a flood in the house, the HVAC intake vent is at floor level in the kitchen (where the outdoor faucet is) and drops 12" lower than the kitchen floor level to garage floor level (raised slab).. so I'd have 12" of water fill the intake.  It's all foamed and sealed inside there but probably not water proof.. I imagine it'd be hard to dry out if it got flooded and wouldn't want to have mold in our central air.  If there was mold in there, with the way it is designed, the entire HVAC system would have to be removed to get to the intake area.

[lthenderson]

I am not sold on sharkbite fittings yet mostly because they rely on a rubber gasket to seal the water. Granted it doesn't move like the rubber gasket you are getting replaced on your outside faucet and isn't exposed to direct sunlight or air, but it does get exposed to pressure and time, both of which can wear it out. Another thing that concerns me is movement. Pipes aren't always static. Temperature swings cause them to move, people hanging wet laundry off of them or teenage sons doing pullups on them all flex and can put pressure on those fittings. I have never felt comfortable that a sharkbite fitting will maintain the original clamping force when flexed a lot over time. I think sharkbites are wonderful things to have around for emergency repairs because you can put them on in wet conditions unlike copper soldering or pvc gluing. Maybe after they have successfully been used for another couple decades without problems, I might be inclined to trust them more.

I definitely think there are different qualities of outdoor faucets. I usually don't go with the cheapest and prefer to go with the one that physically weighs more, assuming that implies better quality which may or may not be the case. But I've never replaced any of the outdoor faucet o-rings, packing or sealing, since I replaced them when I moved in ten years ago. The ones left by the previous owner were all in rough shape and the handles felt really cheap when twisting with my hand. Unfortunately due to the design needed, one can't use a more reliable valve sealing style. I only use ball valves inside the house but those don't work for outdoor faucets. But those o-rings are very DIY to replace and you can pick up an o-ring kit online for WAY less than the cost of a plumber and do it yourself in a matter of minutes.

Perhaps another thing causing this might be your water quality. If you have really hard water that has a lot of minerals in it, these might be building up on the seal seat causing the leaks. Adding some sort of filtration or water softening system upline might allow you to get a longer life out of the o-rings. 

[sisto]

I've been using them for years with no issue. Several plumbers I know use them too.

[Sibley]

The only thing that every plumber I've ever spoken to agrees on is sharkbite fittings. And every single one of them hates them. They leak. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but they leak.

I think the fact that you repeatedly have problems with it leaking is pretty clear evidence that it sucks. Replace it, with copper, galvanized, or pex if that can accommodate the conditions.

[jnw]

The only thing that every plumber I've ever spoken to agrees on is sharkbite fittings. And every single one of them hates them. They leak. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but they leak.

I think the fact that you repeatedly have problems with it leaking is pretty clear evidence that it sucks. Replace it, with copper, galvanized, or pex if that can accommodate the conditions.

Well weire' not having a problem with the sharkbite leaking, we are having a problem with the new faucet leaking.  BF is working on finding the properly sized o-ring.

[slackmax]

Just another data point for you. I installed 2 shark bite hoses with my new water heater 6 years ago, and they are great. Easy to install, too. Just my experience.

[nereo]

Shark bite fittings really evoke some strong opinions from (typically older) plumbers, but most of the negatives I’ve heard are focused on perceived longevity, not on actual failures.* It’s important to note that they are approved for in-wall junctions, which means failures are subject to home owners insurance claims, which ultimately come back to the manufacturer.

Personally I’ve used them extensively and haven’t experienced a failure for any installed correctly. I’ve had similar reports from the people I know that have used them. Still, I avoid  using them inside walls where they can’t be visually inspected or easily replaced - for that I’ve gone almost entirely to expansion PEX fittings.

Where sharkbite really excels is for attaching exposed fittings like water heaters that might be changed out every decade, or when I want to add a cutoff valve under a sink or to another appliance (why oh why do so many homeowners fail to do this simple and very important step?) They are also awesome for connecting copper to pex. I also always keep some sharkbite stoppers (1/2” and 3/4”) in my emergency kit to stem the flow from a broken pipe. There’s really not an equivalent emergency option in anything else.

*ETA: the other, less convincing argument I’ve heard against Sharkbite fittings is simply that they are “too easy” and - unlike soldering of copper pipe- the results don’t show craftsmanship.

[CatamaranSailor]

They are fine. I use them in places that have access. I installed them on my hose bibs 5-6 years ago and have had no issues.

I would not feel comfortable using them in a wall I was going to sheet-rock.

(I've used crimp rings and pex for 20 years and never had a problem, so that's my go-to, but Sharkbites do make things easy).

 

[sisto]

Shark bite fittings really evoke some strong opinions from (typically older) plumbers, but most of the negatives I’ve heard are focused on perceived longevity, not on actual failures.* It’s important to note that they are approved for in-wall junctions, which means failures are subject to home owners insurance claims, which ultimately come back to the manufacturer.

Personally I’ve used them extensively and haven’t experienced a failure for any installed correctly. I’ve had similar reports from the people I know that have used them. Still, I avoid  using them inside walls where they can’t be visually inspected or easily replaced - for that I’ve gone almost entirely to expansion PEX fittings.

Where sharkbite really excels is for attaching exposed fittings like water heaters that might be changed out every decade, or when I want to add a cutoff valve under a sink or to another appliance (why oh why do so many homeowners fail to do this simple and very important step?) They are also awesome for connecting copper to pex. I also always keep some sharkbite stoppers (1/2” and 3/4”) in my emergency kit to stem the flow from a broken pipe. There’s really not an equivalent emergency option in anything else.

*ETA: the other, less convincing argument I’ve heard against Sharkbite fittings is simply that they are “too easy” and - unlike soldering of copper pipe- the results don’t show craftsmanship.

Very well said. I agree that I would not use them inside walls. For that I use copper. I'm not a huge fan of PEX, but it does have it's place. Rodents love PEX.

[snic]

A couple years back we had a plumber come out to replace a worn out faucet out in the backyard.

He replaced it with a rounded handle, long stemmed faucet.  The stem was at least 8 inches long or so, enough to go through the wall and turn the water on and off inside the house -- we have extreme weather here.

He used a shark bite fitting.

According to these plumbers on youtube shark bite is perfectly fine if done right.  What do you think? Here is their video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCBV5nUSMPc

Btw, we are having a problem with the faucet, having to replace the o-ring every few months.  Have to turn the faucet really hard to try and and turn it off.. but now it is again at the point no matter how hard we turn it it still leaks wasting lots of money each month. 

He's going to replace the o-ring today again.

I am just wondering if there is better faucet hardware perhaps and thinking about paying $350 or so for a plumber to come out and replace as well as get rid of the shark bite fitting -- welding the copper instead.

I am growing tired of the hassle of the faucet out back and the potential risk of flooding.  Is it possible to get a faucet that won't leak and doesn't need o-ring replaced more than say once every other year?  I am thinking $350 would totally be worth it to put this hassle behind me, assuming I get a plumber which installs a decent faucet.

EDIT: I can't afford a flood in the house, the HVAC intake vent is at floor level in the kitchen (where the outdoor faucet is) and drops 12" lower than the kitchen floor level to garage floor level (raised slab).. so I'd have 12" of water fill the intake.  It's all foamed and sealed inside there but probably not water proof.. I imagine it'd be hard to dry out if it got flooded and wouldn't want to have mold in our central air.  If there was mold in there, with the way it is designed, the entire HVAC system would have to be removed to get to the intake area.

By "outdoor faucet" do you mean the spigot you connect a garden hose to? If so, look for a "quarter turn hose bib" like this one: https://www.homedepot.com/p/1-2-in-x-3-4-in-Brass-MPT-SWT-x-MHT-Quarter-Turn-Hose-Bibb-103-023HN/320703794. Quarter turn valves don't have an O ring to wear out. The disadvantage is that you have less control over the water flow. One idea if that is an issue would be to install a Sharkbite shutoff valve upstream of the outdoor faucet (inside the house) and just shut off the water supply when you're done using the faucet.

Re Sharkbite, I'm a fan. I've used them for repairs for a few years without leaks. Way cheaper than a plumber and very DIY-friendly. You do have to be careful to install them correctly, but there are videos galore on how to do it right.

[Paper Chaser]

Is this the 'faucet' you're talking about?


That's known as a frost free sillcock. They make them with threaded ends (as pictured above) that attach to your house plumbing so you can connect with whatever type of fitting you need/want (including sharkbites) and they make ones that have integrated sharkbite fittings.

If you have an integrated sharkbite fitting, and you're considering replacing the entire sillcock because of an o-ring in the handle I can see why you might think poorly of sharkbites. But that sounds like an issue with the o-ing of the handle, and not sharkbite fittings themselves.

[jnw]

Is this the 'faucet' you're talking about?


That's known as a frost free sillcock. They make them with threaded ends (as pictured above) that attach to your house plumbing so you can connect with whatever type of fitting you need/want (including sharkbites) and they make ones that have integrated sharkbite fittings.

If you have an integrated sharkbite fitting, and you're considering replacing the entire sillcock because of an o-ring in the handle I can see why you might think poorly of sharkbites. But that sounds like an issue with the o-ing of the handle, and not sharkbite fittings themselves.

Yeah it's not the sharkbite fitting that is the problem, it's the frost free sillcock faucet he isntalled. The o-ring went out on it in less than a year. But I am unhappy he did the shark bite thing as well. I would of rather had it welded; that's what I was expecting.   Dissatisfied with both.  The sharkbite fitting is a few inches inside the house under the sink past the exterior wall; so it's pretty close to extreme cold weather.. So I am concerned about that aspect as well with respect to it being  a shark bite instead of welded.  I rather have a better faucet, with o-rings readily available for it, with a welded joint instead of a shark bite.  My bf is looking for another o-ring.. so far he's bought 2 assortment packs.  EDIT: also the handle on this sillcock he installed seems really cheap, and you have to turn it liek a dozen times to get the water to get full water pressure.

[nereo]

I wouldn’t be concerned that your plumber used a sharkbite fitting - the parts are actually considerably more expenses than soldering a copper joint, but for jobs which require just a fitting or two the time savings are worth the added cost to the plumber.

Looking at the positive side, since he already installed a sharkbite fitting there it’s really simple to replace the faucet with something you prefer.  As you said, the problem isn’t the fitting, it’s with the faucet.

…getting back to the faucet - there’s really three reasons it might have failed in so short a time. The faucet itself is cheap/faulty, ice built up inside the valve, or your water has sediment or a very high level of minerals. The sediment/minerals portion was covered upthread. You can change the o ring easily enough and, if that doesn’t work, replace the entire faucet.  For ice buildup (and for your concern with pipe being close to the exterior wall) a good practice is to shut off valve and leave the faucet open.

[jnw]

I wouldn’t be concerned that your plumber used a sharkbite fitting - the parts are actually considerably more expenses than soldering a copper joint, but for jobs which require just a fitting or two the time savings are worth the added cost to the plumber.

Looking at the positive side, since he already installed a sharkbite fitting there it’s really simple to replace the faucet with something you prefer.  As you said, the problem isn’t the fitting, it’s with the faucet.

…getting back to the faucet - there’s really three reasons it might have failed in so short a time. The faucet itself is cheap/faulty, ice built up inside the valve, or your water has sediment or a very high level of minerals. The sediment/minerals portion was covered upthread. You can change the o ring easily enough and, if that doesn’t work, replace the entire faucet.  For ice buildup (and for your concern with pipe being close to the exterior wall) a good practice is to shut off valve and leave the faucet open.

Thanks. Unfortunately there is no shut off valve inside for it, nor the dishwashing machine.  To service these we have to go out to the very front of our front yard and turn off the water main there; so the entire house water supply is turned off.   I need to have a plumber come out and do all this right.  All welded and shut off valves to both.   EDIT: but actually the type of faucet this is, the shut off valve is inside the house, isn't it? Does it not have a long stem turning off the water inside the house so it doesn't have a chance to even move past the exterior of the house?

[Paper Chaser]

You can install a shut off valve inside your house if you want, but it's not necessary with a frost free sillcock. The downward slope so that any water would gravity drain to the exterior of the home is critical in both cases

[lthenderson]

It’s important to note that they are approved for in-wall junctions, which means failures are subject to home owners insurance claims, which ultimately come back to the manufacturer.

I'm pretty sure Reliance, maker of Sharkbite fittings, has been sued twice over them already. One is for their quick connect washer hoses, though if I recall, it was for hose lining failure and not the fitting itself. Another lawsuit was over the actual fittings that were used in a hotel construction in New Orleans that failed and caused a huge amount of damage. I haven't heard what became of that one.

I have an acquaintance who is a plumber and he does get calls to replace them fairly frequently. According to him, 75% are just bad installs because they are much more technical to install than solder joints, i.e. need square cuts and deburred edges along with proper push force. But he says it isn't rare for him to replace ones that leak, especially on hot water lines which are prone to movement with time and use as the water inside them cools and gets really hot. Using them on cold lines is a lot less taxing on them.

[index]

Get a Woodford Silcock and be done with it. If you have pex get one with the pex crimp end, if not, get one with the threaded fitting and use a threaded to sharkbite fitting to connect it to your copper. If the push-to-fit is accessible like in your case, you have nothing to worry about. You can find disagreement about "new" tech in every trade. Electric - some guys hate on romex and wire nuts, plumbing - push-to-fit, tile - new shower systems etc.     

[snic]

You can find disagreement about "new" tech in every trade. Electric - some guys hate on romex and wire nuts, plumbing - push-to-fit, tile - new shower systems etc.     

Exactly.

Although Romex has been in use since 1926, according to the internets, so it's hardly "new tech"...

[index]

You can find disagreement about "new" tech in every trade. Electric - some guys hate on romex and wire nuts, plumbing - push-to-fit, tile - new shower systems etc.     

Exactly.

Although Romex has been in use since 1926, according to the internets, so it's hardly "new tech"...

Yep, but talk to a commercial electrician who runs conduit or MC cable all day and they will tell you NM will burn your house down.

[ChickenStash]

An interesting side issue with Sharkbite style fittings is grounding. The o-rings and plastic parts make them unreliable conductors so if they are being used in a situation where the plumbing needs to be grounded or maintain continuity, there needs to be a jumper installed across the fitting. I think the technical term is "dielectric union."

I've never used them for anything in-wall and probably wouldn't, but as one end of appliance connections (water heater, softener) they've been great so far.

[zolotiyeruki]

You can find disagreement about "new" tech in every trade. Electric - some guys hate on romex and wire nuts, plumbing - push-to-fit, tile - new shower systems etc.     

Exactly.

Although Romex has been in use since 1926, according to the internets, so it's hardly "new tech"...

Yep, but talk to a commercial electrician who runs conduit or MC cable all day and they will tell you NM will burn your house down.

Unless you're in some "lucky" parts of the US where the local electricians'  and plumbers' unions have codified requirements for EMT and copper water pipes everywhere, including residential.

[Just Joe]

I tried to use them on a water supply line that was attached to our water meter. Shark Bite failed within days. Leaked. Also, the PEX from the 1990s had failed initially. Tried to replace it with modern PEX using Sharkbite.

In the end, paid the plumber $200 to come do it right.

Don't want to worry about a water leak again that costs me $$$ in water fees. That's how we discovered the original problem.

[MasterStache]

I've been using shark bite for years with little to no issues. Any minor leak has been detected right away as I slowly turn the water back on and closely monitor for leaks. The key is prep. You don't just cut the pipe and slap a fitting on there. Cutting correctly, deburring, making sure it's seated correctly and completely and supporting the pipe so it's not moving around. 

I've been to a lot of houses where repairs have been made on existing copper pipes that developed a leak after years. I started a job yesterday and in the process of removing the existing vanity, the soldered supply valve for the sink started leaking the moment I loosened the braided supply line. Nothing is fool proof.

Honestly, it's the most stressful part of my renovations. Shark bite fittings have been around since 2004. So they aren't exactly new tech 

[yachi]

... or when I want to add a cutoff valve under a sink or to another appliance (why oh why do so many homeowners fail to do this simple and very important step?)

I replaced 2 sinks and 3 faucets in my house.  Basically when it was time to replace the faucets, it was time to replace the cutoff valve under the sink as well.  The kitchen sink didn't have any cutoff valves so I added them, but the other sinks had ones that just didn't hold anymore.

My shower works great, but the cutoff valve in the wall behind it broke a gasket and the tiny rubber bits plugged the hot water side of the shower.  I cleaned out where the shower mixed hot and cold, and it works just great.  For the cutoff valve, I just the o-ring around the stem to keep it from leaking.  It's not worth my time or trouble to replace it unless I need it to do some major work.

Basically whenever I needed to rely on a cutoff valves they let me down, and once when I had an issue it was because of the cutoff valve.  I'm not convinced they're a benefit.

[lthenderson]

Basically whenever I needed to rely on a cutoff valves they let me down, and once when I had an issue it was because of the cutoff valve.  I'm not convinced they're a benefit.

Whenever I replace mine, I avoid those cheap plastic gate valves that fill the shelves in that area of the store. Instead I always put in brass ball valves which never let me down.

[yachi]

Basically whenever I needed to rely on a cutoff valves they let me down, and once when I had an issue it was because of the cutoff valve.  I'm not convinced they're a benefit.

Whenever I replace mine, I avoid those cheap plastic gate valves that fill the shelves in that area of the store. Instead I always put in brass ball valves which never let me down.

My sink shutoff ones are usually 1/4 turn angle valves with pressure fittings.  The annoying one in the wall is a brass multiturn gate valve probably from the early-mid 1990's

[jnw]

I am just going to hire a plumber, and one with a lot of experience.  I want it soldered and I want the proper slope/incline for the sillcock.  I also want it grouted and to have a cut off valve (it doesn't have one yet).  Also at same time have them add cut off valve for dishwashing machine.  Also add a water pressure thingy to the main line.. doesn't have one; sometiems pressure is as high 120. 

I'll gladly just pay for all that but only if done propery and professionally. MAybe it will be $1k or so I dunno.  I am prepared to pay it for peace of mind.

[aasdfadsf]

You've made your decision so there's no point in belaboring it further. But I'll just put in another data point for sharkbites. I have used them extensively for basic plumbing jobs and have never had any problem with them.

[jnw]

You've made your decision so there's no point in belaboring it further. But I'll just put in another data point for sharkbites. I have used them extensively for basic plumbing jobs and have never had any problem with them.

Well the sillcock needs replaced anyways.. with a high quality one with o rings we can readily buy to fix leaks if needed.  Constant problems with the one this plumber installed.  Also he didn't grout it in and installed no shut off valve etc.. I mean it's all going to be replace anyways so I might as well just get it soldered in.  Going to make sure the sillcock is installed with the proper slope as well -- not sure if the last plumber did that.. it didn't have a sillcock before - I have no idea why my pipes didn't burst as the old one was exposed to sub 0 degree weather several times.

[Just Joe]

Just for my own dtaa points - did the plumber sweat the new valves in or did they use the copper crimp connectors?

[lutorm]

I just wanted to add that sweating a copper joint isn't exactly rocket science. If you have any experience soldering you can do it easily. Just don't set something nearby on fire...