Author Topic: Walkout Basement Window Expansion?  (Read 3415 times)

couponvan

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Walkout Basement Window Expansion?
« on: May 28, 2015, 12:59:55 PM »
Can you expand the width of basement windows by 2" without huge expense if they are in the wood portion of a walkout basement?

I found a set of NEW Anderson low e glass triple casement windows at ReStore for $200 size 78WX45H.  Plus they are running a window special that will make them only $160 each this weekend (if they are still there).  I was told milled windows would be $1,000 each....The basement has an 8' slider, so it gets plenty of light already. My basement windows currently are 76WX53H. 

I am trying to decide if it is a better deal to buy the wider window and spend some money to build up the headers, or whether I should just buy the correct sized windows milled.

Both windows are on the walkout side of the basement.  For one, one side is in concrete and the other side is wood.  For the other window it is all wood as it is on the walkout side.  I'd need to build up the framing on the outside to accomodate the 8" smaller windows.  Any window expert feedback would be appreciated. 

psinguine

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Re: Walkout Basement Window Expansion?
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2015, 06:57:37 AM »
There are three main tiers of difficulty when it comes to this sort of thing.

The easiest by far is swapping out one window/door for another of the exact same size. Nothing has to be opened, walls don't have to be reframed, drywall doesn't have to be cut, it's pretty simple. You just pull the screws, cut the expanding foam, and push the old one out. Reverse the process and the new one is in. That said I have spent entire days fighting with "easy" replacements but that's not the norm. Even the old trims should go back on without any cutting or modifications.

The middle difficulty is making a window/door smaller. In this case you have to get the old one out and then build the hole in with wood. This may necessitate larger trims on the inside to hide the edges, and it may require changes to the siding on the outside as well, depending on how small you're going. But really this is neither here nor there, because you're not going either of these routes. You're looking at option three.

Option three, no matter at which end of its own independent difficulty scale it lands on, will always be an ass pain. The existing framing will have to go, walls and siding have to disappear, and large headers will have to be replaced with larger ones. It is important to note that if the wall you are working on runs perpendicular to your floor joists, that is to say if your floor joists terminate on top of that door header, then simply removing it without proper forethought and preparation could result in collapse.

This is not to dissuade you. This is to prepare you. Any skill can be learned. But walking in unprepared is a fantastic way to set your hair on fire.

First things first, you have to know which way your floor joists run. If they run parallel to the wall then it's fine, the rest of the wall will support the space while you work. If they run perpendicular to the wall, terminating on top, then before anything else you must build a temporary support wall with 2x4 lumber to support that area before you move on. Once the header goes it will be the only thing (not including the double top plate) supporting your floor. A cursory googling should give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

Next you get the existing door out. That's easy enough. Pick which side of the existing frame you want to keep and measure over from there. Remember to make your opening 3/4"-1" bigger than the actual door to leave room for leveling and expanding foam insulation. You're going to have to cut back drywall (or whatever your basement is finished with) to make this happen so you might as well do it now.

The stud and cripple that made up that side of the door both have to go. Depending how you remove them, providing the new door is the same height, you should be able to reuse them. Watch out though, they are holding up what is likely a double 2x10 header, which in turn holds up the weight of the house above it. Sadly that header is now too small. Pitch it. You're going to have to build another one. Just watch it doesn't fall on your head.

Make sure that the side you chose to keep is level. If it isn't make it so. Remember that your header will be larger than the opening because it sits on top of the cripples. Depending on how far back you cut the drywall, and how much room you have to work, I suggest that you get just the new stud in place, slide the new header into the existing cripple/stud pocket on the side you left in, and then slide the new cripple underneath it. Typically installing both cripple/stud assemblies and then trying to fight the header into the pocket is a recipe for frustration.

You can now cut back the exterior by whatever method necessary and put your door in the hole. Ensure you flash that hole by whatever methods are applicable in your area. Level it, plumb it, secure it, and foam it in place. There you go, the door is in. You should be able to take down that support wall now. Now comes the tedious process of patching back in your drywall around the hole you had to make.

Note of course that this information is provided for illustrative purposes only, and is not intended to replace the advice of an engineer or certified general contractor on site. Your personal situation may differ greatly from the situation I have described. It is possible that the floor over the door is supported by a steel lintel, for example. There are many potential and confounding variables that would fall well outside the scope of this general information.

Greg

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Re: Walkout Basement Window Expansion?
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2015, 08:58:14 AM »
psinguine pretty much covered it.  I'd look at the rough opening (the hole in the framing) not the window size to see if it will work easily.  You may find the rough opening is big enough, it varies from era to era and builder to builder.

couponvan

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Re: Walkout Basement Window Expansion?
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2015, 03:11:50 PM »
Thank you for the insight.... You know those deals that sound too good to be true. This is probably one of them. 

The windows are perpendicular to each other, so one has got to be load bearing and one has got to be non load bearing.  The load bearing one would be beyond my DIY ability to risk having the house fall down on me.  However, there is a general contractor that builds houses out there.  I just found out the ReStore has those windows on sale for 40% off this weekend, making these Anderson low e triple casement windows $120.  I think that is a low price. 

So if the cost to have a professional install a new header is less than the cost of a new window for full price, it sounds like I should go for this slightly larger window. 

paddedhat

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Re: Walkout Basement Window Expansion?
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2015, 08:39:09 PM »
With an opening that large, you MIGHT get lucky enough that it was framed with double jack studs, and you could replace one on each side with a TECO header clip. This would legitimately eliminate two jacks and open the rough opening by 3".  That said, that call needs to be made by an experienced set of eyeballs, not on a forum. Good luck.

psinguine

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Re: Walkout Basement Window Expansion?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2015, 11:11:17 PM »
Thank you for the insight.... You know those deals that sound too good to be true. This is probably one of them

It happens. I just had a client go through a similar situation, although in their case they'd already pulled the trigger on the windows.

This particular person had two windows with bad seals. They were leaky, there was fiberglass insulation stuffed around them for weatherproofing, it was your stereotypical bad situation. I gave them a quote for the installation of windows custom made to fit the space. A pair of simple sliding windows, dual pane, just the other side of something you'd pull off the shelf. They thanked me and then went quiet for a while.

A couple weeks later I got a call. They'd gotten a couple of windows on their own, a steal of a deal, a fraction of the price I'd quoted them for windows alone. They were wondering if I could quote them for the install because, and at this point I started shaking my head, they were bigger than the old windows.

So I came in and I measured and figured out which way trusses ran (we're talking seriously big windows here) and priced out the lumber and time to patch drywall and modifications that had to be made to the siding on one entire face of the house and a number of other things that escape me now. And I presented them with a number (installation alone) that was many times larger than the cost of custom windows with installation included.

It was a shock for certain. But they couldn't just give back the windows now, and they'd paid too much (sunk cost fallacy) to just swallow it and call it a lesson learned. Last I've heard they've still got the same leaky windows in the wall and fancy ones taking up space in the living room.

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!