Author Topic: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?  (Read 1029 times)

Jon Bon

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Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« on: July 01, 2021, 07:29:24 AM »
Situation: Doing a 1000sqft demo and addition. Removed old addition and adding on new quality work.

Existing house: has Gray aluminum siding, Painted 4 years ago in ok shape. Was better but some of the crews I have had working on the house cant help but go through life destroying everything they touch. Matching the color does not look like an option. So I think we have to reside the entire house.

Question: What do I need to know about Fiber Cement Board?

The material itself is more, but in total cost of the project it might be worth it to have a more durable better looking product? $40 a square for vinyl and $60 for fiberboard? Are all the other items where they upcharge you? Ive installed vinyl myself and its pretty straightforward.

If you have had hardibacker or similar product installed please let me know how you like it?

uniwelder

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #1 on: July 01, 2021, 07:57:32 AM »
It sounds like your other option for the rest of the house with aluminum is to repaint the whole thing to match the new addition.  You don't want to do that for some reason?

When you say $40 and $60 a square, I'm not sure what you mean.  Can't be per square foot, nor a square as it relates to roofing terminology--- 100 sq ft.  Either of those sound pretty out of whack for pricing.  Regardless, if you're getting pricing thats 1.5x for hardiboard vs vinyl, it seems like a no brainer.  I hate vinyl.  Hardiboard is fire resistant, impact resistant, doesn't look like cheap garbage.

I've put up hardiboard myself on a small project-- gable ends of my house and garage.  It takes paint really well and has been very durable.  I did the work 12 years ago with no issues to speak of long term.  It was repainted a year ago because the color faded, but the paint itself hadn't shown any signs of peeling.  I've even used the material exposed the weather for a chicken coop and gate, with no paint, and its held up fine after 10 years. 

There are two hardiboard formulations, depending on where you live in the country.  One is meant for humid areas that freeze and the other is for dry.  For some reason, I can buy either in my location, depending on which store I go to.  The factory is actually 30 minutes from my house.

lthenderson

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #2 on: July 01, 2021, 08:05:09 AM »
I have cement board siding from a national big box store and I absolutely love it. I would never install vinyl. The cement board looks like wood, holds paint way better, never needs power washed, never buckles or looks like a Ruffles potato chip when you sight down a long side, etc. It does have some drawbacks though. It requires more tools to install. I use a circular saw with special blade to cut to length. If you use "green" cement board, i.e. fresh stock, you can pound nails through it with no problems. Once it cures with age, you need to predrill it especially if you are nailing a small piece or close to an edge. Cured cement board also become fairly brittle so you want to keep it covered and out of the sun during the installation process and any leftover pieces are about useless in a couple years as they will shatter like a plate. It does require painting and the vinyl people always used to tout that their product doesn't but as we have seen with time, plastic fades with sunlight and exposure to the elements so while it never needs painting, it does change color and look worn out with time. I have a ranch style house so painting my siding once every couple decades doesn't cost a lot of money nor take a lot of time. At my age, if I continue to live here, I probably only have one more painting left in my lifetime and then it will be someone else's problem. The caveat of course is that I use high quality primer and paint that costs 3 to 4 times what you can buy store brand big box store paint at. Thus it lasts a long time. If you buy the cheap stuff, you will have to repaint much more often. Finally, I have had a friend install cement siding on his house which heaved during an exceptionally dry year we had and it cracked along one side from top to bottom. It is repairable and from a distance isn't noticeable but it definitely isn't as forgiving as vinyl. That's not to say that vinyl siding would have buckled and looked terrible too, but it wouldn't have cracked. I probably wouldn't install cement board on a brand new house that hasn't had a chance to settle. But for an older house that has settled and not likely to settle anymore, I would most definitely pay the premium to have cement board over vinyl.

geekette

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #3 on: July 01, 2021, 08:16:47 AM »
Hardi all the way.  We had our house resided 15 years ago to get rid of crumbling masonite, and it still looks good as new.  They applied some sort of "lifetime" paint, and it hasn't needed anything but an occasional wash (we get algae).

From owning a rental townhouse for 20 years, I've seen what time (and lawn "care") does to aluminum siding.  I've also seen what putting a grill just a little too close to vinyl siding can do.  Our neighbor's house, about 15' from ours, burned 4 years ago.  I was so very happy we had Hardi.  Although we smelled smoke for weeks, we had no damage.

bacchi

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #4 on: July 01, 2021, 08:28:01 AM »
Another +1 for fiber cement. It's been 12 years, and the caulking is drying and shrinking, but the paint on the board still looks great. Unlike wood, if you bump into it hard, it can crack. It also takes 2 people to install as the 12' planks are floppy.

Check out LP Smartside too. I just bought some fiber cement yesterday to finish up a garage but I would've used Smartside if the exposure matched.

Jon Bon

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #5 on: July 01, 2021, 11:29:45 AM »
Thanks for all the updates, sounds like everyone is pretty happy with it. I did my garage in vinyl 4 years ago and its already looking to show its age. Had another piece of information that is probably pretty important.

The existing house has aluminum siding which would be taken off. It also has a layer of cedar siding under that.

If I remember correctly Fiberboard needs a very smooth surface to be installed over. Will the unevenness of cedar siding cause a problem?

lthenderson

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #6 on: July 01, 2021, 01:50:22 PM »
I'm pretty sure they allow you to install cement board over existing siding as long as it is in great shape and smooth. My guess if that most siding doesn't meet the first requirement because if it was in great shape, the owner wouldn't be looking to replace it. Are you referring to cedar shake siding? I would guess that violates the smooth part of the clause.

Regardless, my opinion would be to remove all the siding as it will give you a chance to find any hidden damage before covering it up under multiple layers and making it harder to fix. When I replaced my siding, I found a couple places where water had rotted through the sheathing, one under a window and the other from an improperly flashed deck. It gave me a chance to replace the sheathing and fix the flashing in both of those areas, as well as wrap my house with house wrap for energy efficiency before installing the new siding. All of that was worth the extra labor or tearing off the old siding.

SunnyDays

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #7 on: July 01, 2021, 03:36:27 PM »
Another option would be stucco, if you like the look of that.  Low maintenance with just paint needed maybe once every 15 years.  Blast it with a hose to clean it and done.

MasterStache

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #8 on: July 01, 2021, 03:38:05 PM »
I am currently in this debate as well. The side of our house is actually vinyl siding while part of the front is wood siding in rough shape. I am contemplating just residing all of it with HardiePlank. I'll definitely be removing the old wood siding. 

Jon Bon

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #9 on: July 02, 2021, 07:16:27 AM »
I am currently in this debate as well. The side of our house is actually vinyl siding while part of the front is wood siding in rough shape. I am contemplating just residing all of it with HardiePlank. I'll definitely be removing the old wood siding.

I am thinking yes I would likely have to remove a bunch of old nasty siding... Doable, but I imagine that would nearly double my labor cost?

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #10 on: July 02, 2021, 10:23:25 AM »
I'm pretty sure they allow you to install cement board over existing siding as long as it is in great shape and smooth. My guess if that most siding doesn't meet the first requirement because if it was in great shape, the owner wouldn't be looking to replace it. Are you referring to cedar shake siding? I would guess that violates the smooth part of the clause.

Regardless, my opinion would be to remove all the siding as it will give you a chance to find any hidden damage before covering it up under multiple layers and making it harder to fix. When I replaced my siding, I found a couple places where water had rotted through the sheathing, one under a window and the other from an improperly flashed deck. It gave me a chance to replace the sheathing and fix the flashing in both of those areas, as well as wrap my house with house wrap for energy efficiency before installing the new siding. All of that was worth the extra labor or tearing off the old siding.

I'll send tearing off the old cladding for all of the reason you listed related to repairs/upgrade and one more.

My understanding is that cement board, along with bricks and stucco, is a reservoir cladding (https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/reservoir-claddings). In short without proper controls there is a higher risk of moisture damage with the underlying structure when compared to non-reservoir claddings, like vinyl and aluminum. Personally I would start at a rainscreen to allow air flow and break capillary action and a house wrap to act as a drainage plane.

Of course furring the wall out with a rain screen could create issues at siding-to-door/window trim.

Around here too many people just slap siding directly on top of bare sheathing. Vinyl gets away with it for decades (and even then its usually the splash back zone that is at issue) cement board ... not so forgiving.

bacchi

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2021, 12:19:41 PM »
My understanding is that cement board, along with bricks and stucco, is a reservoir cladding (https://www.buildingscience.com/documents/information-sheets/reservoir-claddings). In short without proper controls there is a higher risk of moisture damage with the underlying structure when compared to non-reservoir claddings, like vinyl and aluminum. Personally I would start at a rainscreen to allow air flow and break capillary action and a house wrap to act as a drainage plane.

Of course furring the wall out with a rain screen could create issues at siding-to-door/window trim.

Around here too many people just slap siding directly on top of bare sheathing. Vinyl gets away with it for decades (and even then its usually the splash back zone that is at issue) cement board ... not so forgiving.

I used Hydrogap as the house wrap.

Dana Dorsett on GBA recommends using ripped XPS as the furring strips for the rain screen. The advantage over 1x3s is that it adds a thermal break.

https://www.greenbuildingadvisor.com/question/planning-to-change-siding
« Last Edit: July 02, 2021, 12:24:05 PM by bacchi »

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2021, 03:44:47 PM »
I had one other thought.

If look around the local market and if you have a friend who is realtor, builder, or anyone else in the know ask them what the local desired/avoided materials are.

For example we have friends out in ski country and the husband is in construction. In their market cement board siding is avoided. The perception is that it causes rot. The reality is there is a lot of older stock with inappropriately installed cement board that did lead to rot, so the local market simply avoids cement board now.

Papa bear

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2021, 07:46:33 PM »
So much hate for vinyl.  I’ve got it on like 12 houses.   No need to paint. It holds its color through, if damaged. Doesn’t dent.  Easy to repair and replace.  Let’s plenty of airflow behind it as it’s “hung” and not attached close to the house, so no need for a rain screen.

Fiber board?  Needs maintenance.  Get ready to paint every 10-15 years. 

Vinyl siding prices were way up when I last bought some last fall, so shop around with whatever you get.  I think I paid 100+/ square for board and batten vinyl then.  It used to be 40-50/square for some Dutch double lap.  Vinyl shake was $500!!!!/square. Wtf!


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Fishindude

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Re: Vinyl Siding or Fiber Cement Board?
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2021, 09:14:44 AM »
I would also remove all of the existing siding so you can see what kind of shape things are in and have a nice flat surface to side over.   Would also install new house wrap prior to new siding.
Don't rule out cedar siding -vs- cement board.   I think it looks nicer, and both products need to be painted and caulked periodically.