Author Topic: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?  (Read 12803 times)

Capsu78

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Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« on: January 29, 2014, 05:56:48 PM »
Looking for opinions on trouble shooting a drop off in water pressure in my 35 yo house.
On a well system one an acre of land.  Have a Red Devil well pump that is past its "replacement" date.  Have the original steel water tank in the basement that provides water pressure that I have been reluctant to replace as a neighbor of mine replaced his 10 years in and has had to replace twice more... "wished I would have stuck with the original" he says.
I have had decent water pressure for the most part, but back in November I had my hot water heater serviced.  The tech flushed the water heater and replaced the "anondiser".  We shut off water into the house to do this task.
Since then I have experienced air pockets in the hot water line, despite running all my taps a couple of times to burp the system... last time I did this the water flow upstairs actually stopped or reduced to a trickle.   
Any thoughts on how to trouble shoot this problem and who should I call- plumber or well company?

pjm123a

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #1 on: January 29, 2014, 06:59:29 PM »
Many pressure tanks contain an internal air bladder. If the bladder goes bad it will not hold air and the tank will become full of water (ie: waterlogged). Her in Florida our pressure tanks are outside as we don't have basements. If you get 10 years out of a pressure tank down here you are doing pretty good. Assuming PVC piping a pro can cut out a tank and plumb in a new one in about 10 minutes. Once I saw it done, I vowed that next time I would do it myself. It took me a couple of hours but really was not that hard. A simple test to see if your tank is water logged is to just tap on it. If it hold air then the section that holds air should sound different than the section that holds water and you will hear the difference in your tapping. The reason you are losing pressure with a water-logged tank is that you cannot compress water like you can air. It is the compressed air that forces the water out (ie provides the pressure). Our local Lowes and Home Depot sells replacement pressure tanks. Hope this helps.

Jack

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #2 on: January 29, 2014, 07:34:46 PM »
Do you have low water pressure in the cold water line? If not, then the issue is with the water heater.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2014, 07:55:06 PM »
PJM- Thanks for response!  Up here in deep freeze country no incoming water in PVC- all buried below freezeline- but I like your thoughts on tap testing.

Jack- water pressure for cold is similar to hot, and we could live with it in our sinks... biggest issue is the 2nd floor showers which use a combined water flow- single control installed 10 years ago that totally improved water pressure in master bedroom where it mattered the most.   

Greg

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2014, 08:11:48 PM »
There should be a pressure gauge near the well pump pressure switch, this will help you determine whether the problem is the pump, pressure tank, or other.  The gauge should read 40-60 psi.  If it's less, then the pump or pump switch, or pump controller could be at fault.  If the pressure at the tank is good, but you have flow or pressure problems at your fixtures, then you might have debris in the lines.  Try cleaning the screen aerators at each fixture (sink, shower head) and if you have low flow at the toilets check the supply hose/line for debris as well. 

I would expect they would flush the system after their service by doing this, removing all aerators and running for a while to make sure to avoid debris causing problems.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #5 on: January 30, 2014, 11:21:38 AM »
Thanks Greg- yes the pressure dial is part of the water pressure tank and it is indicating above the levels you mentioned.  Maybe the well company is the one to call.

TrMama

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #6 on: January 30, 2014, 11:43:42 AM »
Is the filter clogged? At minimum, I believe most wells have a basic sediment filter, and I think ours was between the pressure tank and the rest of the house. When it gets clogged the pressure to the rest of the house drops. You just have to change the filter.

Greg

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #7 on: January 30, 2014, 03:11:00 PM »
yes the pressure dial is part of the water pressure tank and it is indicating above the levels you mentioned.  Maybe the well company is the one to call.

The problem would appear to be between the pressure tank and house then, or in the house.  I'd first look for a whole house filter as suggested by TrMama and then the other things I mentioned.  Air can get trapped in odd places and it's not unusual for it to take a while to clear out.  But this sounds like more than just air in the lines.

Hedge_87

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #8 on: January 30, 2014, 03:22:15 PM »
We have a whole house filter that I sometimes forget about for a little to long. It will get filed up with sand and really drop the water pressure. Might be worth looking into. Another idea my well and pressure tank is located ~50 ft away from the house in a pump house. I also have a water spigot there too. If you have a similar set up checking the water pressure at the spigot would tell you if it's the well or not. I know there are a lot of ifs in that statement but. Also depending on how deep your well is they are really pretty simple to work on. I've replaced two submersible pumps on mine and have recased the well with PVC because I've heard horror story's about the old cast iron ones calapsing.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #9 on: January 30, 2014, 06:42:10 PM »
I don't have a whole house filter... but wish I now did :-)   I do have a water softener that I will also do a walk around...
So... If I don't have a filter, where has the sediment settled???

Hedge_87

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #10 on: January 30, 2014, 06:58:43 PM »
Have you pulled your screens off your faucets yet. I've seen the PVC on the inside of the hot water tank "dissolve". I've also seen the line from the well to the house "colapse" before but if you didn't experience anything until the hot water heater was worked on I would not think it would be that.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #11 on: January 30, 2014, 08:27:23 PM »
Hedge- I don't think I have a screen problem based on the "spurting/ gurguling" I am experiencing, but will work on that tomorrow.  Thanks!

Greg

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #12 on: January 30, 2014, 09:26:03 PM »
Theoretically if you have sufficient pressure at the tank, then you should be ok, but consider the possibility that the well pump is bad or lacking in water level.  Checking flow at the spigot near the tank should prove/disprove this as Hedge_87 suggests is a good idea.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #13 on: January 31, 2014, 07:58:25 PM »
Thanks Hedge- I have started to work my way though the house and have found some filters that need attention in any outcome.  Hope to have this completed over the weekend.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #14 on: January 31, 2014, 08:03:07 PM »
Thanks Mom, That is the way I am leaning as well (no pun intended!)   I need to replace my pump anyway, either on a timeline I choose or the one the pump chooses.  23 years service submerged under water is a pretty good ROI.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #15 on: February 25, 2014, 01:59:01 PM »
Just to update and close out this thread:  Finally decided that calling out the Well guys needed to be done.  The diagnosis was multiple points where things could be clogged up with the crud from my well.  I decided to go ahead and replace the well pump based on age and results, the air guage on the tank and the plumbing from the tank to where it merges with the in house lines.
This is what I learned-  the main valve connecting pressure tank to house was plugged to a hole less than a pencil width.  Even with adequate pressure, the water was choked off before it entered the interior pipes.  The air valve, which turns out to be a float, was completely covered in red colored gunk.  The 23 year old pump itself came out of the hole serverely coated in gunk, and had its pumping ability diminished from the intake... it is impressive it lasted this long.  The baffles at 20 and 40 ft which allow air in to the system were also gunked up.  So we replaced the pump, the wiring down to the pump, the air valve and the first 3 ft of plumbing inside the house.  It now has a better positioned shut off valve. 
As we brought the system back to life, it was pumping nasty brown water that looked worse than the water at Sochi.  as we made our way around the house faucets, the well guy said "OK,  here is a well guy trick... many of your faucetts have restrictors on them to control pressure at 1 gallon a minute... since you are a well owner who keeps his eye on the water table, I am going to remove them..." which pumped up volume in spigots I have never seen that kind of pressure in.  In some faucets it was a small gasket, in others a disc.  Not recommended to remove for those on billable city water or in drought prone areas.  As I garden and manage several rain barrels for grey water during the summer, I fell like I can live without restrictors on my faucets without killing off some snail darters in California! 
For those interested, the pump swap out, which included having a snow plow across my front yard so they could get the truck to the head was $1600.  New wiring 140 feet down to the pump, the new plumbing, shut off and pressure valves pushed the total invoice to $2195... hopfully the last time I have this expense while we are in this home.  I still need to burb more brown water out of the system, and this is NOT the time to wash my wifes "corporate clothes" unless I am wanting to put out another $2000- but this time to Nordstroms!
Thanks everyone for your comments.  They added value to my thought process and hopefully this post benifits someone else down the line who hears "How come the shower isn't working right?" 

Greg

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #16 on: February 25, 2014, 03:40:30 PM »
Nice to hear you got it fixed.  I would recommend a filter on the main water line, it might fix all the brown water issues.

Hedge_87

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #17 on: February 25, 2014, 06:15:50 PM »
Glad you got it all straightened out. Plus two on the whole house filter. I have have sandy soil and since installing it I don't have to clean my screens out of my faucets near as much

RetiredAt63

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2014, 10:31:57 AM »
I hope they put a torque arrestor on your pump (I am assuming it is the cylindrical submersible type). If not, every time the pump starts it will twist a bit, and eventually your wires will break.  We replaced a pump over an Easter weekend (think expensive labour) because the previous pump did not have this.  Also, opening up the well potentially introduces contaminants - we poured two gallon jugs of bleach into the well just before it was closed up, and ran upper story taps until the chlorine smell went away - no problems with bacterial contamination.

Capsu78

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Re: Thoughts on my well system- Plumber or well company?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 05:00:55 PM »
Retired,
I have no idea if torque arrestor was part of system or not.  I did pay (dearly) for all new wires which they quoted as non optional.
Also didn't pour bleach but I did have my water professionally tested a year ago, during a low water table when it is most vulnerable, and multiple tests came back pristine.   The installation took place on a single digit F day, so hopefully there wasn't a whole lot of contaminents hanging about.
BTW, a "very bad day" for your well pump installation is when the system is so fragile that the pump breaks off and sinks into the hole... happens a couple of time a year according to my guys.
Thanks for your imput. 

 

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