Those damn belts on the car - help (UPDATE* I did it!!)

[CmFtns]

So here's the situation. My GF drives a 2005 Hyundai Accent and she brought it in for oil change and they said there were cracks in one of the belts (the AC Belt) and they told her "Might as well change all the belts while were in there" while quoting a large sum to replace them. She called me and told me what she was getting done and I told her to tell them "STOP" and I would at least attempt to change it myself (She's bad about giving in to the auto place's upselling). After looking up the job it seems very doable and it's going to be a fun project...

BUT...

Now that I was thinking about belts I got thinking about timing belts. I looked up the recommended change interval and it is 60,000 miles or 4 years. I asked her and she doesn't remember ever getting it changed so I'm assuming the original belt is still there. The car has 73k miles and is 10 years old so I figured it was getting sorta close to timing belt (which I assumed was 100k miles) but this change interval means the car is WAYYY past the recommended time.

Is the car safe to drive?
Is this an OMG FIX ASAP type of situation?
Can we drive it a few thousand more miles relatively safely?
Is this a possible weekend/2 person project for sorta handy beginners

UPDATE* I did the project and everything went well... see pics below!

[ketchup]

Change it.  I would avoid driving it at all before then if possible.  It looks like that car has an interference engine, which means that if the timing belt breaks while the car is running, engine damage can (will) occur to the tune of a few grand (probably expensive enough to toast a 2005 Hyundai).

I didn't look on that particular car, but I'd say it's probably a doable project for most cars for "sorta handy beginners."  Hyundai/Kia are usually pretty simple to work on.  Check if there's an idler or tensioner that needs to be replaced at the same too (as opposed to just the belt).  It's usually worth also replacing the water pump while you're in there (90% of the work is the same to get to it as the timing belt, and you don't want to do it twice if you don't have to).

[CmFtns]

Looks like we're going to get a quote for the timing belt and see what he will charge to replace the exterior belts as well. I don't believe I have the right tools or experience to get this timing belt changed in a reasonable amount of time. I don't want to risk anything.

[Gone Fishing]

I don't want to risk anything.

I might be nitpicking an innocent comment but you need to get these thoughts out of your head.  You take risks every day, every moment. If you want, you can spend tons of money attempting to mitigate every little risk you can think of which will ultimately leave you with very little. What you should say is "I don't want to take excessive (vs the reward) risks".  Spending $500+ on a car only worth $3k or so (and less everyday) is a risk in and of itself.  What you need to do is educate your self to the point where you know almost as much as expert.  Two prime areas to start are auto mechanics and medical/dental.  Both are willing to take as much as you will give them and sadly, each are looking more and more for ways to upsell, usually with dire warnings if you fail to take their advice. 

There's cracked and then there's CRACKED.  Preemptive belt changing is a common upsell.  If the belts look fairly normal with just a little bit of weather checking I would just drive on and change them when you can and/or get a good quote.  If there are strings hanging off and or large gaping cracks, I would change them right away.  I ran the original belts on my 1997 Civic for 224k miles.  My 08 Corolla has 165k on the original belts.  Although, I COULD see Hyundai using a lower quality belt from the factory given they compete so aggressively on price.  Years and cold weather are probably harder on belts than miles so folks in northern climates may get less life than I have. Serpentines also seem to break down faster due to the back and forth flexing. A belt's strength comes mostly from the cords embedded in the rubber, the rubber is there to protect the cords, absorb heat, and provide grip on the pulleys. Small weather check type cracks in the rubber do not indicate imminent failure.

People like to change water pumps on Hondas along with the timing belt, turning a $150 job into a $600+ job.  Not sure if this will be the case with the Hyundai or not, but I have always thought it to be unnecessary.

For many people, especially those in their early twenties, their cars are their most valuable assets, and understandably, you want to take care of them and make them last as long as you can.  Sadly the many mechanics on the other side of the dollar know this too and will make every attempt possible to turn a routine oil change (usually done for little more than cost) into a "revenue opportunity".     

[CmFtns]

I don't want to risk anything.

I might be nitpicking an innocent comment but you need to get these thoughts out of your head.  You take risks every day, every moment. If you want, you can spend tons of money attempting to mitigate every little risk you can think of which will ultimately leave you with very little. What you should say is "I don't want to take excessive (vs the reward) risks".  Spending $500+ on a car only worth $3k or so (and less everyday) is a risk in and of itself.  What you need to do is educate your self to the point where you know almost as much as expert.  Two prime areas to start are auto mechanics and medical/dental.  Both are willing to take as much as you will give them and sadly, each are looking more and more for ways to upsell, usually with dire warnings if you fail to take their advice. 

There's cracked and then there's CRACKED.  Preemptive belt changing is a common upsell.  If the belts look fairly normal with just a little bit of weather checking I would just drive on and change them when you can and/or get a good quote.  If there are strings hanging off and or large gaping cracks, I would change them right away.  I ran the original belts on my 1997 Civic for 224k miles.  My 08 Corolla has 165k on the original belts.  Although, I COULD see Hyundai using a lower quality belt from the factory given they compete so aggressively on price.  Years and cold weather are probably harder on belts than miles so folks in northern climates may get less life than I have. Serpentines also seem to break down faster due to the back and forth flexing. A belt's strength comes mostly from the cords embedded in the rubber, the rubber is there to protect the cords, absorb heat, and provide grip on the pulleys. Small weather check type cracks in the rubber do not indicate imminent failure.

People like to change water pumps on Hondas along with the timing belt, turning a $150 job into a $600+ job.  Not sure if this will be the case with the Hyundai or not, but I have always thought it to be unnecessary.

For many people, especially those in their early twenties, their cars are their most valuable assets, and understandably, you want to take care of them and make them last as long as you can.  Sadly the many mechanics on the other side of the dollar know this too and will make every attempt possible to turn a routine oil change (usually done for little more than cost) into a "revenue opportunity".   

I'm not worried about the exterior belts nearly as much as the timing belt. The engine is an interference engine so if the timing belt snaps then there is a good chance the motor is shot. Although I would love to attempt this task, the problem is that I don't have expert knowledge right now and the timing belt seems like a medium/advanced procedure. I also do not believe I own the tools to get this job done right now.

Don't I need to start with more beginner tasks and work my way up as well as slowly build up my tool inventory?

Anyway this was the quote and recommendation from an independent mechanic:

Timing Belt Kit:     112.00
Water Pump:        41.67
Belt AC:               16.00
Belt PS:               26.00
Belt ALT:              27.00
Fluids:                  14.99
Labor 3.5hr           315.00
-------------------------------
                           552.66
Tax                      35.92
------------------------------
                           588.58

Yes, he recommended water pump and belts and fluid changes.
Yes, I agree quite pricey and I do not want to pay it.

But I also want this car to go into the hundred thousands I cant just drive it forever on the 10+ year old timing belt so when does timing belt get changed / when does risk of broken engine outweigh cost of replacement.

[CmFtns]

What I'm thinking is for the cost of the labor I can equip myself with a nice arsenal of quality car related tools and still save money. I'm just worried... I hope you can imagine why I would be nervous to attempt something like this. Engines are like a complicated unknown land and it seems like there is a very suspicious lack of instructional materials out there. (maybe all the mechanics are hiding it)

If I don't get it done by a mechanic, the car would probably get 500 more miles put on it before I get a long weekend to work on the car. I am thinking right now to take the risk and get all the stuff myself.

[eil]

Okay. So. Bearing in mind that I am not a mechanic, this is not legal advice, and you should always consult your physician before taking these vitamins, here is what I would do.

First, don't freak out about the timing belt. The 60k figure is a recommendation, not a maximum. At only 13k over, it's not on its last legs. The recommended service interval for everything on the car is typically very conservative. The engineers look at the expected life of a particular item, cut it in half to be on the safe side, and then the accountants cut it further to boost dealership service revenues.

In short: yes, get the timing belt changed as soon as you conveniently can. But it's far from an emergency. Same as if your oil change interval is 7500, it absolutely will not hurt the car to take it to 9000 on rare occasion. (It might not even hurt to take it to 10k all the time, but then it starts turning into a statistics game where the odds become increasingly not in your favor.)

If you're not up to doing the timing belt yourself, at least talk to your mechanic and see if he (or she) is willing to install the parts if you buy them. If they won't, get a new mechanic. (I still haven't found one around here that I completely trust... and it probably saves me a bunch of money.)

I went over to Rockauto.com (my favorite vendor for car parts) and priced out some middle-of-the-road parts:

Gates PS: 6.48
Gates AC: 11.34
Gates Alternator: 13.47
Gates water pump: 30.79
Dayco timing belt kit: 53.99

If you want to DIY as much as possible, at least do the everything but the timing belt yourself and just have the mechanic perform the labor for the timing belt. (You might be able to do the water pump too, I don't know this engine in particular. Some are easy, some are not.)

EDIT: And honestly, if the the AC belt only drives the AC compressor and nothing else, you can consider it optional and run it until it shreds. AC is a human luxury, not something the car needs in order to operate. I recently changed the belts on my wife's Mazda 5 and the only reason I replaced the AC belt at all was because I had to literally cut it off (stretchy belt, non-reusable) in order to replace the main belt.

[eil]

I ran the original belts on my 1997 Civic for 224k miles.  My 08 Corolla has 165k on the original belts.  Although, I COULD see Hyundai using a lower quality belt from the factory given they compete so aggressively on price.  Years and cold weather are probably harder on belts than miles so folks in northern climates may get less life than I have.

I agree in principle over not worrying to much (or rather, too immediately) about minor cracks but I just wanted to point out that 150k+ and 200k+ is definitely not typical in here Michigan. My Mazda Protege left me stranded on the side of an interstate due to the water pump belt shredding at something like 140k miles.

Now I pay much closer attention to the condition of my belts.

[JLee]

I don't want to risk anything.

I might be nitpicking an innocent comment but you need to get these thoughts out of your head.  You take risks every day, every moment. If you want, you can spend tons of money attempting to mitigate every little risk you can think of which will ultimately leave you with very little. What you should say is "I don't want to take excessive (vs the reward) risks".  Spending $500+ on a car only worth $3k or so (and less everyday) is a risk in and of itself.  What you need to do is educate your self to the point where you know almost as much as expert.  Two prime areas to start are auto mechanics and medical/dental.  Both are willing to take as much as you will give them and sadly, each are looking more and more for ways to upsell, usually with dire warnings if you fail to take their advice. 

There's cracked and then there's CRACKED.  Preemptive belt changing is a common upsell.  If the belts look fairly normal with just a little bit of weather checking I would just drive on and change them when you can and/or get a good quote.  If there are strings hanging off and or large gaping cracks, I would change them right away.  I ran the original belts on my 1997 Civic for 224k miles.  My 08 Corolla has 165k on the original belts.  Although, I COULD see Hyundai using a lower quality belt from the factory given they compete so aggressively on price.  Years and cold weather are probably harder on belts than miles so folks in northern climates may get less life than I have. Serpentines also seem to break down faster due to the back and forth flexing. A belt's strength comes mostly from the cords embedded in the rubber, the rubber is there to protect the cords, absorb heat, and provide grip on the pulleys. Small weather check type cracks in the rubber do not indicate imminent failure.

People like to change water pumps on Hondas along with the timing belt, turning a $150 job into a $600+ job.  Not sure if this will be the case with the Hyundai or not, but I have always thought it to be unnecessary.

For many people, especially those in their early twenties, their cars are their most valuable assets, and understandably, you want to take care of them and make them last as long as you can.  Sadly the many mechanics on the other side of the dollar know this too and will make every attempt possible to turn a routine oil change (usually done for little more than cost) into a "revenue opportunity".   

A timing belt is not a $150 job, and changing a water pump certainly won't quadruple the rate. The reason a water pump change is recommended during a timing belt service is because (for cars with a water pump driven by the timing belt), the vast majority of the labor is removing the timing belt.  Once you're there, changing the water pump involves draining coolant, maybe six or eight bolts, and replenishing coolant.  Getting access is the hard part.  Replacing the pump itself is trivial.

Okay. So. Bearing in mind that I am not a mechanic, this is not legal advice, and you should always consult your physician before taking these vitamins, here is what I would do.

First, don't freak out about the timing belt. The 60k figure is a recommendation, not a maximum. At only 13k over, it's not on its last legs. The recommended service interval for everything on the car is typically very conservative. The engineers look at the expected life of a particular item, cut it in half to be on the safe side, and then the accountants cut it further to boost dealership service revenues.

In short: yes, get the timing belt changed as soon as you conveniently can. But it's far from an emergency. Same as if your oil change interval is 7500, it absolutely will not hurt the car to take it to 9000 on rare occasion. (It might not even hurt to take it to 10k all the time, but then it starts turning into a statistics game where the odds become increasingly not in your favor.)

If you're not up to doing the timing belt yourself, at least talk to your mechanic and see if he (or she) is willing to install the parts if you buy them. If they won't, get a new mechanic. (I still haven't found one around here that I completely trust... and it probably saves me a bunch of money.)

I went over to Rockauto.com (my favorite vendor for car parts) and priced out some middle-of-the-road parts:

Gates PS: 6.48
Gates AC: 11.34
Gates Alternator: 13.47
Gates water pump: 30.79
Dayco timing belt kit: 53.99

If you want to DIY as much as possible, at least do the everything but the timing belt yourself and just have the mechanic perform the labor for the timing belt. (You might be able to do the water pump too, I don't know this engine in particular. Some are easy, some are not.)

After having a Gates water pump fail in 20k miles, I won't buy another one.

[sokoloff]

I'm also a big fan of RockAuto (BTW, google for a 5% off coupon code; they will send you one after every order and it expires in a few months, but people post them to all kinds of forums, so you can always find one).

That said, I don't blame a mechanic who won't install parts you carry in. What if you buy the wrong part or there's a defect with the part you buy? They deal with a local warehouse who will deliver parts to them, usually multiple times per day. They don't want your car half apart, the wrong or damaged water pump, and a multiple day wait while you chase down the issue. I don't bring my own beef into McDs, and I don't bring my own parts to a shop. You'll find someone on Craigslist who will be willing to install your parts, but I doubt you'll find a good shop willing to do so.

You pay some markup on parts and that's OK in my book.

A timing belt and waterpump job is moderately ambitious for a first-timer, but if you follow along with the service manual, you should be OK.

My advice is:
1. Never work under a car supported by a jack! Buy jackstands and give the car a good jiggle once it's up on the stands.
2. Never work on a car without an alternate source of transportation to the parts store. I've had to ride my bike to the parts store to get myself out of a jam. When you're just starting out, you have a higher chance of needing some random tool that you don't already have.
3. Make sure you know what gaskets/O-rings are involved in the water pump job and make sure you know what sealants to use on them. Doing a big job like this and ending up with a leaker is a royal PITA!
4. When there are choices of waterpumps and you can buy either the "working half" of the waterpump or a whole waterpump, always buy the whole waterpump. It's not worth field servicing them. (This was common on early watercooled VWs; not sure about your GF's car.)
5. I wouldn't sweat the timing belt hard just yet. Yes, they do eventually break and if yours does, the car might be totalled (as a junkyard engine R&R is more than it's worth), but in all likelihood, you can drive the car another 25K miles without issue. (No guarantee, but don't feel like your hair is on fire and you must change the timing belt before the next summer. It's a risk, but a very small one, IMO.)
6. I would always change the water pump if doing the timing belt, not so if just doing the external belts.
7. Counsel your GF that if she sees the red battery/alternator light turn on, she should park the car as soon as it's safe to do so. That is often a broken belt, and often means no water pump. I've seen people "know" they wouldn't run down the battery and keep driving, cooking the engine because, "it's just the battery light".

[KarefulKactus15]

Alright ill add my opinion. So far in my short life I've changed 2 honda timing belts on 2 different cars.

1.) I would not consider your over mileage an emergency, as another poster said those numbers are conservative. HOWEVER if you want, you can possibly remove the upper timing belt cover and have a look for yourself, inspection is the only way to know how bad the situation is. I don't know hyundai but on most hondas the timing belt cover can be removed fairly easily.

2.) I would NEVER pay someone to change serpentine belts

3.) I don't know how long you plan to keep the hyundai, but hyundai has a US service website where you can login (after you buy a subscription) and have the same information the service techs have.  There are other manuals available as well for cheaper, but the factory manual is always king.

4.) DO NOT ATTEMPT THE TIMING BELT YOURSELF, the risk is too great  - coming from a car guy.
     Unless your familiar with cars, and already do all your other maintenance, don't do the belt. Its a big job that is not forgiving of small mistakes.

If you want to try and do the timing belt, get a manual from the factory website, or another source and read about the job, KEEP IN MIND, a lot of the bolts will be stuck and won't come out as easy as in the manual. If you see everything and say "I can do that" then you can try it. But a timing belt on an interference engine is not a good starter project. 

5.) My advice, do due diligence to find a trustworthy independent shop that does lots of korean cars, or another mechanic that you really trust to use high quality parts and do the job right.

****EDIT****
I just looked at the price of the hyundai manual from hyundai,  they are pretty pricey. I can't recommend that kinda price.  As an alternative, I use and would recommend "all data diy" for manuals.  It says 29$ but retailmenot ALWAYS has a coupon code to make it 8$ for 1 year or 12$ for 2 year.   So yeah, theres that, if you want to read about any job on the car, they have step by step, how many hours it takes and the price of all the parts and any specialty tools needed.
 

[Gibbelstein]

For what it is worth, I deal with timing belts myself (historically out of financial necessity and now out of plain ol' cheapness) and that is what I would suggest to anyone who is at all interested.  (Upon preview, I see that several of my points were addressed by others.  I think I removed the duplicates.)

• Get a repair manual if one is available.  (Haynes or Chilton's or the like).  This is $30 that will pay for itself immediately on a job like this and having it in your hands when looking into the engine compartment is comforting.   Sometimes you can find a PDF factory repair manual online, but I think Haynes et al are more plain English and have a lower level of assumed knowledge.
• Tools: basic hand tools to start (i.e. ratchet set, a hammer or two, a few sizes of screwdrivers, pliers, open/box end wrenches, crescent wrench(es), etc. and build from there.  My first kit had fewer tools than this ( http://www.harborfreight.com/hand-tools/hand-tool-sets/130-pc-tool-set-with-case-68998.html )and served me well until I could justify the upgrade (or decide to throw in the towel and pay for service going forward without worrying about the huge 'wasted' investment in tools.)
• Join a DIY forum for your Make/Model.  Often there will be DIY write-ups done by forum members with pictures and potential variations on how to do these jobs (i.e. "You can do this without removing X,Y,Z to save time...").  The first forum I ran across for Hyundai seemed to prefer directing people to a free online manual that is no longer free rather than sharing info with other members.  Sometimes there are 'competing' forums with varying degrees of helpfulness vs. condescension, as is the case with all forums, right? =)
• I am also partial to Rock Auto and the ever-present 5% discount which offsets having to pay for shipping.  For important bits like these, I will often choose the one from the OEM manufacturer (the people that made it for Hyundai originally) because it is often still less than the cheapest option at the local part store and it intuitively (unscientifically) feels better to me on important parts.
• I'm starting to stray a bit now, but try to start projects Friday night or Saturday Morning, particularly if it is your only vehicle.  This gives you an extra day to get everything put back together, and the option of buying a part you didn't know you needed Saturday Night and starting again Sunday morning when you're a little less frazzled.  i

I'd say definitely replace the water pump while you are in there to avoid having to do this again sooner than necessary.  And, if the other belts look even close to ready to replace, I'd do them too because, as you may already know, you will likely have to take the other belts off to get to the timing belt, so this is really multiple services in one. However, some are more willing to take the 'risk' on the other belts because the worst that can happen is an inconvenient dead battery when driving or parked, a harder to steer than usual car, or a warm ride with no A/C.  It is up to you guys how concerned you are about each of those problems.

[Yonco]

I had an escort once, 2000 zx2, it was "recommended" to change time timing belt every 100k. I sold it with 220k and it was still running, rusty, but still running and the original timing belt. Ive seen cars jump timing and do a world of damage, but if your cars not missing now at 70k miles, im sure its safe to drive( although ive never owned a korean car)

[CmFtns]

Thanks for all the help guys. I'm going to the mechanic this morning to talk to him but am probably going to delay the repair and attempt it on my own. I watched a video on it and it seems hard... but doable with the right tools.

I also procured service manual directions for this procedure so we will see how it goes.

[zolotiyeruki]

I've done two timing belts in the last year.  They're not super complicated, but they take a lot of time.

3.5 hours is a very optimistic estimate--it took me almost 3 times that amount the first time, and probably twice as long the second.
I endorse the recommendation for replacing the water pump at the same time.  On my more recent timing belt, it was literally two extra steps in the middle of the whole job: "remove old water pump, put new one on" right after "remove old timing belt".

You can get kits off amazon which have parts from the OEM for your car, so you know you're getting good quality.

[PFHC]

What I'm thinking is for the cost of the labor I can equip myself with a nice arsenal of quality car related tools and still save money. I'm just worried... I hope you can imagine why I would be nervous to attempt something like this. Engines are like a complicated unknown land and it seems like there is a very suspicious lack of instructional materials out there. (maybe all the mechanics are hiding it)

If I don't get it done by a mechanic, the car would probably get 500 more miles put on it before I get a long weekend to work on the car. I am thinking right now to take the risk and get all the stuff myself.

I'm a marine engineer, which means I'm a glorified car mechanic on giant ships. I do this type of stuff for work.

Here's the scoop. Go for it.

Your best resource is Youtube. They have everything on there.

This is going to be a job and take a while. You're going to make mistakes. Stick with it. If you're truly handy, you'll figure it out.

Don't be scared of the engine. They may seem complicated from the 1,000 ft level, but once you get in there, it is just a bunch of simple machines working together to make something more complicated.

Look into a Haynes manual for your car. I have no idea if they have them, but if they do, it has everything you need there. That plus Youtube, you will be all set!

[CmFtns]

Thanks for all the help guys... So I've pretty much decided to do this myself but am having trouble deciding if I should actually replace the water pump. I have been running across a lot of different brands and the price varies wildly.

For example I see an oem water pump and gasket for almost $100 on http://www.hyundaipartsdepartment.com/
while on other sites I see water pumps that are like $17

I don't want to buy an aftermarket water pump that would fail sooner than if I just left the Original OEM water pump in there.

Is there a good recommended brand?

Also do you have to drain the coolant to put a water pump in?

[JLee]

Thanks for all the help guys... So I've pretty much decided to do this myself but am having trouble deciding if I should actually replace the water pump. I have been running across a lot of different brands and the price varies wildly.

For example I see an oem water pump and gasket for almost $100 on http://www.hyundaipartsdepartment.com/
while on other sites I see water pumps that are like $17

I don't want to buy an aftermarket water pump that would fail sooner than if I just left the Original OEM water pump in there.

Is there a good recommended brand?

Also do you have to drain the coolant to put a water pump in?

You will have to drain the coolant (do that first, otherwise you'll soak yourself when you remove the water pump). Look up your car on RockAuto.com and post a list of what is available - I went with Aisin or Toyota OEM for my Toyotas (Aisin is the OEM manufacturer for Toyota).  I put an AC Delco in a Cadillac, and Gates in a Subaru (which failed, so no more Gates for me).

[HipGnosis]

Thanks for all the help guys... So I've pretty much decided to do this myself but am having trouble deciding if I should actually replace the water pump. I have been running across a lot of different brands and the price varies wildly.

For example I see an oem water pump and gasket for almost $100 on http://www.hyundaipartsdepartment.com/
while on other sites I see water pumps that are like $17

I don't want to buy an aftermarket water pump that would fail sooner than if I just left the Original OEM water pump in there.

Is there a good recommended brand?

Go to: https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?make=HYUNDAI&year=2005&a=www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B2005%2BHYUNDAI&blanktemplate=true
Expand Cooling System and Water pumps
The second most inexpensive (I never buy the cheapest) AirTex is one of their most popular and comes with a lifetime warranty (but that never includes labor).
I always buy an oil filter or 2 when ordering from RockAuto.   How old are your plugs?

[JLee]

Thanks for all the help guys... So I've pretty much decided to do this myself but am having trouble deciding if I should actually replace the water pump. I have been running across a lot of different brands and the price varies wildly.

For example I see an oem water pump and gasket for almost $100 on http://www.hyundaipartsdepartment.com/
while on other sites I see water pumps that are like $17

I don't want to buy an aftermarket water pump that would fail sooner than if I just left the Original OEM water pump in there.

Is there a good recommended brand?

Go to: https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?make=HYUNDAI&year=2005&a=www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B2005%2BHYUNDAI&blanktemplate=true
Expand Cooling System and Water pumps
The second most inexpensive (I never buy the cheapest) AirTex is one of their most popular and comes with a lifetime warranty (but that never includes labor).
I always buy an oil filter or 2 when ordering from RockAuto.   How old are your plugs?

Aisin is an OEM manufacturer for Toyota - I would probably go for an Aisin pump, but I am sure others would work just as well.

[zolotiyeruki]

Another recommendation for Aisin--I used them for both our water pumps.

[CmFtns]

Thanks for all the help guys... So I've pretty much decided to do this myself but am having trouble deciding if I should actually replace the water pump. I have been running across a lot of different brands and the price varies wildly.

For example I see an oem water pump and gasket for almost $100 on http://www.hyundaipartsdepartment.com/
while on other sites I see water pumps that are like $17

I don't want to buy an aftermarket water pump that would fail sooner than if I just left the Original OEM water pump in there.

Is there a good recommended brand?

Go to: https://www.rockauto.com/catalog/raframecatalog.php?make=HYUNDAI&year=2005&a=www.google.com%2BSearch%2Bfor%2B2005%2BHYUNDAI&blanktemplate=true
Expand Cooling System and Water pumps
The second most inexpensive (I never buy the cheapest) AirTex is one of their most popular and comes with a lifetime warranty (but that never includes labor).
I always buy an oil filter or 2 when ordering from RockAuto.   How old are your plugs?

Spark plugs were replaced less than 10,000 miles ago. Lots of recommendations for aisin which is around $30... probably go with that... Do you need the gasket too?

Just found out car has never had coolant changed either... so deffinately probably going to do that so might as well do Water Pump too.

[KarefulKactus15]

Kind of happy to see you going for it.   Let us know how everything turns out!

[sokoloff]

You need a gasket. The question is whether one comes in the box with the water pump or not. It often does, but if you have any doubt, buy the standalone one. They're usually cheap. (I didn't bother to look at yours to verify.)

[Syonyk]

...but this change interval means the car is WAYYY past the recommended time.

No.  It doesn't.  150k on a 60k interval is WAYYY beyond.  73k on a 60k recommended interval is just fine.  Get around to it soon-ish.  I wouldn't actually worry about it failing until somewhere past 100k.

There's cracked and then there's CRACKED.  Preemptive belt changing is a common upsell.

There's cracked, CRACKED, and "oil change place claims you need a new belt."  Which often can be reached by driving in with a brand new, sub-10 mile belt, and looking like a sucker.

People like to change water pumps on Hondas along with the timing belt, turning a $150 job into a $600+ job.  Not sure if this will be the case with the Hyundai or not, but I have always thought it to be unnecessary.

If you have to pull the timing belt to replace the water pump, why would you not replace it when you're in there?  The labor is most of the cost/effort, and I don't like putting used pieces back on cars unless I've got some really good reason to know they're in good shape (which usually means I've previously replaced them).  The parts cost just isn't that much for something you only get at rarely.

Don't I need to start with more beginner tasks and work my way up as well as slowly build up my tool inventory?

YOLO! :D

Or something.

Do you have friends who have done this type of work?  They can often be easily bribed to show up and keep an eye on you for a couple six packs of some decent beer.  Though, sadly, fewer and fewer people work on cars anymore, so this isn't a given.  I was apparently weird in undergrad in that most of my friends were "car guys" and "motorcycle guys" - the usual question was, "What are you working on now?" as opposed to "Do you know how to work on a car?"

2.) I would NEVER pay someone to change serpentine belts

You've never owned anything in a van chassis, have you? :)

[TomTX]

I had an escort once, 2000 zx2, it was "recommended" to change time timing belt every 100k. I sold it with 220k and it was still running, rusty, but still running and the original timing belt. Ive seen cars jump timing and do a world of damage, but if your cars not missing now at 70k miles, im sure its safe to drive( although ive never owned a korean car)

My '95 Saturn is still on the original timing chain and over 260k miles. Not worth paying to do it at this point.

[Syonyk]

There is a huge difference between a timing belt and a timing chain.

One needs regular replacement.

[guitar_stitch]

There is a huge difference between a timing belt and a timing chain.

One needs regular replacement.

This is absolutely correct.  The chain may stretch a bit, but generally won't break.  HOWEVER, the Saturn plastic chain guides and tensioner fail regularly so while you're in there....

Source: Previous owner of two SL2s, both of which ended up needing timing kits.

[Papa Mustache]

Okay. So. Bearing in mind that I am not a mechanic, this is not legal advice, and you should always consult your physician before taking these vitamins, here is what I would do.

First, don't freak out about the timing belt. The 60k figure is a recommendation, not a maximum. At only 13k over, it's not on its last legs. The recommended service interval for everything on the car is typically very conservative. The engineers look at the expected life of a particular item, cut it in half to be on the safe side, and then the accountants cut it further to boost dealership service revenues.

We pushed our luck on a Honda Accord timing belt (80s car, non-interference engine). It broke at 12:30AM on a country lane at 103K miles. I called a friend, he took us home, I came back with a tow rope and a second car. We towed it home about 30 miles. Not fun.

We're running a '99 CR-V with an interference engine. I do all my own work but was very sick (flu?) one year when the belt needed changing and the water pump starting leaking (the real motivator). Had to take it to the dealer to finish the task. I could not quite get the cams synch'd. I had done the tming belt on this car twice before but I had a heck of a fever that day. Not thinking clearly.

I've done about 7-8 timing belts over the years. I replace everything that I have to remove - belts, waterpumps, seals, etc. Its worth it to me. Don't cheap out and buy the cheapest of anything unless you plan to sell the car next week and don't have a conscience about the next owner's potential experience or you are flat broke.  Budget to do it again in short order. I don't have good luck with cheap parts.

If you have a whole weekend and have a second car for a parts/tool runner - I say go for it - IF you have a good repair manual and some videos previewed on YT. Study before you start tearing it down. The labor on our CR-V in around 2008 was about $315 as I recall. The other parts were similar to the prices you quoted.

[BlueMR2]

To me the timing belt being that far over is a "zOMG, fix it now" problem if it's an interference engine.  I've seen soooo many interference engines break timing belts in the 65,000 mile range that over 70k is pretty scary.  You'll be very sad if it happens and you get to do a top end overhaul (with new valves).  Big $$$.

[CmFtns]

So I have been wanting to post an update for a while but have been lazy lately and haven't gotten around to it but here it is!! I did this around 3 weeks ago now and am very happy with the result so I just wanted to give an update with some pics and some data. As I previously said the quote was $588 to do this in the shop.

The total cost to me and my GF was:
Parts:
$100 for drive belts, water pump, timing belt kit, and coolant
Tools:
$110 for jack stands, jack, 3/8" drive socket set, 3/8" drive torque wrench, 3/8" drive breaker bar

This project took around 5 hours on friday afternoon and 3 hours on saturday morning of my 3 day weekend.

savings of:
$588 - $210 = $378

and an hourly worth of:
$378/8hr = 47.25 $/hr (158% more than I get paid at work and valuable and fun experience)

I am very happy with these results and it was a fun project. ANDDDDDDD now for some pics... enjoy and thank for all the help everyone. I'm always amazed by what I learn here =)

All Prep Work Done:





3 Drive Belts Off and Engine Demounted:





Cover off ready for replacement:





All Better =):

[sokoloff]

Congrats, you did even better than you said, because those tools have substantial residual value. (Cash at a pawn shop, but more relevantly, you'll use many of them for the rest of your life, so I think it's fair to count them as not costing $110 for this repair.)

[CmFtns]

Congrats, you did even better than you said, because those tools have substantial residual value. (Cash at a pawn shop, but more relevantly, you'll use many of them for the rest of your life, so I think it's fair to count them as not costing $110 for this repair.)

Oh I am definitely not counting the tools money as lost money... I was planning on furthering my tool inventory at some point anyway for other projects... it just came a litttle bit early

[Syonyk]

I... might have a problem with excuses for NEW TOOLS!

"$x will save me $50, if I buy $100 in tools.  BUT NEW TOOLS!"

:D

[KarefulKactus15]

Congrats!   The update is awesome.  I actually feel bad for discouraging you in my post lol.       
I guess realistically,   there's nothing reasonable on a car you can't do now.    You just started and graduated car mechanic school in 8 hours lol.     

[dragoncar]

Thanks for the update.  I'll have to do this myself in the next few years.  When people talk about "get the cams synch'd" how much room for error is there?  Is it like you sitting there counting teeth on the belt?

[Gone Fishing]

Good job!  I hardly ever feel bad about purchasing tools for a job, even if the cash cost is the same as paying someone to do it (especially if it is one of those things that is super easy with the right tool).  I just consider myself "paid" in tools for my effort.  Hardly a week goes by when I do not use my tools for something.     

[CmFtns]

Thanks for the update.  I'll have to do this myself in the next few years.  When people talk about "get the cams synch'd" how much room for error is there?  Is it like you sitting there counting teeth on the belt?

The car I worked on had a notch on one of the gear teeth and another notch on the metal behind the gear that you match up. It was incredibly easy to do (if you knew about it) and I don't know what all the fuss was about. However, it's not like as soon as I took the timing belt off the engine all of a sudden started spinning randomly. In fact I did not move the engine at all from the time I took the timing belt off till when the new one was back on and it was not easy to move even if I wanted to therefore the two gears stayed matched up without me doing anything. I just put the belt on the teeth of the top gear and then fed it down to the bottom gear making sure there was no extra slack.

[KarefulKactus15]

Nothing too crazy just line up the timing marks.  On on single overhead cam its easy because it doesn't move.  The intake and the exhaust spring pressure balance each other pretty good.

On a duel overhead cam car, you usually have to buy a special tool that holds the two cams in place because they will spin out of place,  but again its just an extra step.

[zolotiyeruki]

Way to go!  That's probably the hardest car repair you'll ever have to do!  Oh, and keep in mind that the $47.25 you "earned" is after FICA, federal income taxes, and state income taxes!  So your actual hourly rate is even higher!

Thanks for the update.  I'll have to do this myself in the next few years.  When people talk about "get the cams synch'd" how much room for error is there?  Is it like you sitting there counting teeth on the belt?

It's critically important, but not particularly difficult.  Another method for accomplishing the same thing:  Make a marker/paint/chalk mark across the pulley and belt on the camshaft, and another mark on the pulley and belt at the crankshaft.  The exact place of the mark isn't important.  Then take off the timing belt, line it up with the new timing belt, copy the marks from the old belt to the new one, and put the new belt on so that its marks line up with the marks on the pulleys.

[Gibbelstein]

Make a marker/paint/chalk mark across the pulley and belt on the camshaft, and another mark on the pulley and belt at the crankshaft.  The exact place of the mark isn't important.

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you meant here, but shouldn't it be to mark the pulley/sprocket and the engine block/head?  You can line the pulley mark up with the block mark, but if you are replacing the belt your mark on the old belt won't help.  Also, when I have done this, the manual guided me how to line things up so the cams would remain stationary (usually the way comfyfutons described above) when the belt was removed so I didn't have to worry about holding 3 (or 5) sprockets still and put the belt on at the same time. 

But I usually also use paint marks as easy visual confirmation that none of them moved. This was hard learned information from the time that I spent 3 weeks getting no power and 5mpg because my cams were a tooth off and I didn't have time to fix it right away.  (I had incomplete guidance and did not line it up properly in the first place...) I was super lucky in that it was a non-interference engine...

Either way, CONGRATS, comfyfutons!  Keep growing that tool collection. =)

[KarefulKactus15]

Its not the right way but i see what the above poster was trying to say.     Make a paint mark on the Cam-drag it across the belt also. Make a mark on the crankshaft-drag it on the belt also.

Take the old belt off, lay it beside the new belt, copy the paint marks in the exact same place.   

If both belts have the same number of teeth (they should) everything should line up with the old paint marks when the new belt is on lol.

[zolotiyeruki]

Maybe I am misunderstanding what you meant here, but shouldn't it be to mark the pulley/sprocket and the engine block/head?  You can line the pulley mark up with the block mark, but if you are replacing the belt your mark on the old belt won't help.  Also, when I have done this, the manual guided me how to line things up so the cams would remain stationary (usually the way comfyfutons described above) when the belt was removed so I didn't have to worry about holding 3 (or 5) sprockets still and put the belt on at the same time. 

Kroaler is right.  And it's not the *only* method I use to make sure things are lined up.  The advantage of this method is that 1) it's a lot faster than trying to visually line up the marks, and 2) it's almost 100% certain to be correct, so lining up the marks on the block and the pulleys simply confirms that you got it right.

[dragoncar]

Thanks, sounds like a bunch of fun.  Can't believe I paid someone $1k to do this last time

[Gibbelstein]

Ahhh, sure that makes sense.  Sorry, I was not trying to be pedantic!  I missed the bit about transferring the marks to the new belt. 

I'm glad all of us have cars with properly functioning timing belts, however they got in there. =)