Author Topic: The sourdough thread  (Read 55713 times)

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #200 on: March 19, 2020, 04:25:50 AM »
No bubbles no bueno.  Look for bubbles.

Yea... no bubbles. So I'm assuming whether with brewers yeast or regular yeast, the activation/proofing should all be 100% the same? I had quickly looked on Youtube and saw guys boiling water with brewers yeast to activate it, but that was specifically for beer so was a bit confused...

Brewers yeast dies when it is cooked. Usually over 30 degrees C is already not good for yeast.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2020, 10:07:25 AM »
No bubbles no bueno.  Look for bubbles.

Yea... no bubbles. So I'm assuming whether with brewers yeast or regular yeast, the activation/proofing should all be 100% the same? I had quickly looked on Youtube and saw guys boiling water with brewers yeast to activate it, but that was specifically for beer so was a bit confused...

Brewers yeast dies when it is cooked. Usually over 30 degrees C is already not good for yeast.

Wait a sec, so why are there all these recipes calling for "warm water" that is in a temp range of anywhere from 105-120F to activate/proof yeast?  I'm super confused now...

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #202 on: March 19, 2020, 10:51:16 AM »
No bubbles no bueno.  Look for bubbles.

Yea... no bubbles. So I'm assuming whether with brewers yeast or regular yeast, the activation/proofing should all be 100% the same? I had quickly looked on Youtube and saw guys boiling water with brewers yeast to activate it, but that was specifically for beer so was a bit confused...


Brewers yeast dies when it is cooked. Usually over 30 degrees C is already not good for yeast.

Wait a sec, so why are there all these recipes calling for "warm water" that is in a temp range of anywhere from 105-120F to activate/proof yeast?  I'm super confused now...

Yeast will begin to die at 120F / 49C.  At 140F / 60C and above it will be completely killed

StashingAway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #203 on: March 19, 2020, 10:52:08 AM »
No bubbles no bueno.  Look for bubbles.

Yea... no bubbles. So I'm assuming whether with brewers yeast or regular yeast, the activation/proofing should all be 100% the same? I had quickly looked on Youtube and saw guys boiling water with brewers yeast to activate it, but that was specifically for beer so was a bit confused...

Brewers yeast dies when it is cooked. Usually over 30 degrees C is already not good for yeast.

Wait a sec, so why are there all these recipes calling for "warm water" that is in a temp range of anywhere from 105-120F to activate/proof yeast?  I'm super confused now...

Brewer's yeast is different from baker's yeast. That should clear up the confusion...

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #204 on: March 19, 2020, 11:09:59 AM »
No bubbles no bueno.  Look for bubbles.

Yea... no bubbles. So I'm assuming whether with brewers yeast or regular yeast, the activation/proofing should all be 100% the same? I had quickly looked on Youtube and saw guys boiling water with brewers yeast to activate it, but that was specifically for beer so was a bit confused...

Brewers yeast dies when it is cooked. Usually over 30 degrees C is already not good for yeast.

Wait a sec, so why are there all these recipes calling for "warm water" that is in a temp range of anywhere from 105-120F to activate/proof yeast?  I'm super confused now...

Brewer's yeast is different from baker's yeast. That should clear up the confusion...
No bubbles no bueno.  Look for bubbles.

Yea... no bubbles. So I'm assuming whether with brewers yeast or regular yeast, the activation/proofing should all be 100% the same? I had quickly looked on Youtube and saw guys boiling water with brewers yeast to activate it, but that was specifically for beer so was a bit confused...


Brewers yeast dies when it is cooked. Usually over 30 degrees C is already not good for yeast.

Wait a sec, so why are there all these recipes calling for "warm water" that is in a temp range of anywhere from 105-120F to activate/proof yeast?  I'm super confused now...

Yeast will begin to die at 120F / 49C.  At 140F / 60C and above it will be completely killed

Which leads to the next question: if those are the temps for regular yeast, then what are the proper temps (or temp range) for activating *brewers* yeast? 30C/86F?

StashingAway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #205 on: March 19, 2020, 11:16:05 AM »
Which leads to the next question: if those are the temps for regular yeast, then what are the proper temps (or temp range) for activating *brewers* yeast? 30C/86F?

From what I'm reading via search engines (disclaimer; not a brewer), 20-25C is the range that is best for that yeast. From 25-30C it goes wild and above 30C it dies.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #206 on: March 19, 2020, 11:19:01 AM »
Which leads to the next question: if those are the temps for regular yeast, then what are the proper temps (or temp range) for activating *brewers* yeast? 30C/86F?

From what I'm reading via search engines (disclaimer; not a brewer), 20-25C is the range that is best for that yeast. From 25-30C it goes wild and above 30C it dies.

Ahh... I see. Okay, I'll give that a try and report back!

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #207 on: March 19, 2020, 11:38:21 AM »
Okay, I just did a little 'experiment' with some old Fleischman's RapidRise Instat yeast that was sitting in the fridge in its sealed packet next to the Brewer's Yeast:


Jar on the left is the Fleischmans (one packet or 2 1/4 tsp): 40C with 1tsp sugar and 1/4 cup water - this is definitely foaming up but no *big* bubbles. It looks like it's doing what it should be for the most part.

Jar on the right is the Brewers yeast (2 1/4 tsp): 25C with 1tsp sugar and 1/4 cup water - seems like it's mostly dead. There's a light layer of foam on top but not much else going on - I can see the layer of yeast and sugar sitting at the bottom of the jar. I'm assuming it shouldn't be looking like that...


Probably safe to recommend that I should I toss the Brewers yeast at this point?

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #208 on: March 19, 2020, 12:34:39 PM »
When my DH brews beer, he makes a starter to activate the yeast, which is at 27C.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #209 on: March 19, 2020, 01:04:50 PM »
When my DH brews beer, he makes a starter to activate the yeast, which is at 27C.

Thanks. I'm assuming it foams up the same/similarly to regular yeast?

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #210 on: March 20, 2020, 04:39:26 PM »
The most frustrating part of all this is finding any flour at all - all my local grocery stores are out of the stuff. I have maybe half a bag of flour left and a single packet of yeast. I guess everyone has decided they'd get into baking thanks to COVID-19

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #211 on: March 20, 2020, 04:47:13 PM »
The most frustrating part of all this is finding any flour at all - all my local grocery stores are out of the stuff. I have maybe half a bag of flour left and a single packet of yeast. I guess everyone has decided they'd get into baking thanks to COVID-19

Our stores have started rationing (limits per customer for buying stuff).  It's great, but still hasn't brought back TP and flour to the shelves.

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #212 on: March 20, 2020, 04:52:37 PM »
WalMart (Canada) has 10kg bags on sale for around $9 .... shelves are bare. :(

 I have enough flour to make a couple loaves this weekend and maybe some tea biscuits.

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #213 on: March 20, 2020, 10:57:09 PM »
The following recipe is working very well for me.  I substitute 1 cup of sourdough for the yeast, half a cup of flour, and half a cup of water. The dough should be very sticky.

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/potato-bread-recipe

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #214 on: March 22, 2020, 05:41:54 AM »
I managed to snag the last 10kg bag of flour at grocery store yesterday.  Made a couple loaves of sandwich bread yesterday and got some sourdough started.

Fresh out of the oven this morning.  4 mini sourdough loaves.  I think I had two of them flipped the wrong way up as they has some tear out on the bottom.  I've been sharing these with my coworkers.  One guy said his wife is working on divorce papers as she want to come live with me.  :P
 

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #215 on: March 22, 2020, 04:49:14 PM »
Those look great!! My latest is UGLY, despite having the most promising starter and dough. Tasty though, and no massive holes at the top this time. I think I gave it a bit more attention during the bulk fermentation stage so might aim to do that again. WFH and being basically confined to home helpful in some ways!

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #216 on: March 25, 2020, 08:36:04 AM »
My last bread is much better than the previous. Finally not so heavy as the others. What I did different this time was:
- I took a lot of time to let my starter acclimatize from the fridge, like 24 hours or so. It was all bubbles, but still didn't poof. But as the bubbles were so active, I decided to take the chance. Maybe the starter was just too fluid to poof.
- I mixed the dough for a long time with the hand mixer. Did that the last time as well, but most previous times, I did it shorter.
- I left the dough overnight for the first poof, not in the fridge.
- I did not make a hand made bread shape or do any stretching and folding. I just cut the sticky, poofed dough in half and threw them on a sheet of baking paper, which went directly into the baking form.
- I let the dough in the forms poof at room temperature, covered with plastic. I had some flour at the top to prevent the dough from sticking to the plastic. It poofed to about twice the size.
- Then the same as usual, 15 min at 250 C with boiling water, and another 33 min at 210 C.

I think the fact that I didn't try to strech and fold it, prevented me from putting in lots of extra flour.

Sorry, iPad pictures always end up upside down on this website.

Edit: I forgot to mention that I used 50% siftet wheat this time, much more than I usually do. I think that also makes a difference.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2020, 11:49:01 PM by Linea_Norway »

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #217 on: March 25, 2020, 08:57:50 AM »
I managed to snag the last 10kg bag of flour at grocery store yesterday.  Made a couple loaves of sandwich bread yesterday and got some sourdough started.

Fresh out of the oven this morning.  4 mini sourdough loaves.  I think I had two of them flipped the wrong way up as they has some tear out on the bottom.  I've been sharing these with my coworkers.  One guy said his wife is working on divorce papers as she want to come live with me.  :P
 

Here is the crumb from one of my mini loaves

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #218 on: March 28, 2020, 11:08:41 AM »
I scored Target Pickup for a 5lb bag of KAF unbleached bread flour lol. Was curious if I can make a sourdough starter using that type of flour though? It's extremely difficult if not impossible to find any whole wheat/whole grain wheat flour around here :(

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #219 on: March 28, 2020, 02:55:26 PM »
I scored Target Pickup for a 5lb bag of KAF unbleached bread flour lol. Was curious if I can make a sourdough starter using that type of flour though? It's extremely difficult if not impossible to find any whole wheat/whole grain wheat flour around here :(

Yup, you sure can. 

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #220 on: March 28, 2020, 05:29:49 PM »
I scored Target Pickup for a 5lb bag of KAF unbleached bread flour lol. Was curious if I can make a sourdough starter using that type of flour though? It's extremely difficult if not impossible to find any whole wheat/whole grain wheat flour around here :(

Yup, you sure can.

Awesome! I'm assuming it's no different in that I can follow OP's starter recipe? Someone on the KAF website mentioned they use non-chlorinated spring water when making the starter, since there's some not-so-good stuff (at least for the starter lol) coming out of their tap that also isn't filtered by their Brita. I guess to be safe it's not a bad idea to do that?

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #221 on: March 28, 2020, 05:38:41 PM »
When I did my sourdough course they said chlorine is volatile, so using water that's been stood in a jug (or e.g. the kettle) for a while should be good enough to avoid any risk it slows things down.

Finally got a good slash in my latest loaf!! Just needed to go for it much more assertively than I had been...

I'm going to run out of bread flour fairly soon, but OH managed to find a bag of plain, so hopefully that will do. Bread flour (and actually all flour, along with pasta, hand soap, eggs and loo roll) have been the consistently hard to find things here during the crisis.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #222 on: March 28, 2020, 05:52:46 PM »
When I did my sourdough course they said chlorine is volatile, so using water that's been stood in a jug (or e.g. the kettle) for a while should be good enough to avoid any risk it slows things down.

Finally got a good slash in my latest loaf!! Just needed to go for it much more assertively than I had been...

I'm going to run out of bread flour fairly soon, but OH managed to find a bag of plain, so hopefully that will do. Bread flour (and actually all flour, along with pasta, hand soap, eggs and loo roll) have been the consistently hard to find things here during the crisis.

Nice! That makes sense too - I will probably just try with bottled water starting out.

BTW: my SIL, who also has been into baking bread, said that in order to achieve the darker brown crust, you're supposed to put a pan of water underneath the bread as it's baking... is that right?

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #223 on: March 28, 2020, 11:46:41 PM »
BTW: Just attempted a starter - I started with 1/4 cup of warm bottled/purified drinking water to 1/2 cup of the KAF bread flour but it didn't seem like enough water at all. So I added another 1/4 of warm water and now the mixture is a bit on the runny side but has the consistency of a pancake batter? Is that going to work? Or do I need to add more flour to this?

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #224 on: March 29, 2020, 01:43:32 AM »
I would rebalance towards the 50/50 again on your next mix, though I suspect it's not too sensitive. But mine seemed to work best when it wasn't too wet....

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #225 on: March 29, 2020, 01:48:31 AM »
When I did my sourdough course they said chlorine is volatile, so using water that's been stood in a jug (or e.g. the kettle) for a while should be good enough to avoid any risk it slows things down.

Finally got a good slash in my latest loaf!! Just needed to go for it much more assertively than I had been...

I'm going to run out of bread flour fairly soon, but OH managed to find a bag of plain, so hopefully that will do. Bread flour (and actually all flour, along with pasta, hand soap, eggs and loo roll) have been the consistently hard to find things here during the crisis.

Nice! That makes sense too - I will probably just try with bottled water starting out.

BTW: my SIL, who also has been into baking bread, said that in order to achieve the darker brown crust, you're supposed to put a pan of water underneath the bread as it's baking... is that right?
I think the pan of water is to give it a better rise (slows the crust formation, so it stays more flexible in the early stages when the yeasts/bacteria are still producing gasses).  I think for a darker crust you just leave it in a bit longer.

Instead of a tray of water, I make mine in a casserole dish (as a Dutch Oven). Keep the lid on for the first 25-30 minutes to trap the steam from the dough, and then remove for the second half of the baking time. This does the same thing (actually better probably as ovens tend to be a bit leaky and it's hard to fill the whole thing with steam without dropping the temperature).

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #226 on: March 29, 2020, 03:07:59 AM »
Yes, steam gives a better crust.

With respect to production of gasses by the yeasts and bacteria while baking, they are going to have a very short time alive as the temperature rises, so the effect of additional gas production will be minimal.  What’s going on is the expansion of existing gas bubbles in the dough as temperature rises.  In a wet dough, these expanding bubbles coalesce and rise up through the dough but are held within the loaf by the gluten mesh or by the outside crust.  Too wet a dough, or not enough gluten formation and you get a very few very large bubbles at the top.

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #227 on: March 29, 2020, 05:48:01 AM »
I scored Target Pickup for a 5lb bag of KAF unbleached bread flour lol. Was curious if I can make a sourdough starter using that type of flour though? It's extremely difficult if not impossible to find any whole wheat/whole grain wheat flour around here :(

Yup, you sure can.

Awesome! I'm assuming it's no different in that I can follow OP's starter recipe? Someone on the KAF website mentioned they use non-chlorinated spring water when making the starter, since there's some not-so-good stuff (at least for the starter lol) coming out of their tap that also isn't filtered by their Brita. I guess to be safe it's not a bad idea to do that?

I used the water that came out of my tap to make my starter - no issues.

Yes, just follow the starter recipe and in 7 days +/- you'll be ready to go.

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #228 on: March 29, 2020, 05:50:20 AM »
BTW: Just attempted a starter - I started with 1/4 cup of warm bottled/purified drinking water to 1/2 cup of the KAF bread flour but it didn't seem like enough water at all. So I added another 1/4 of warm water and now the mixture is a bit on the runny side but has the consistency of a pancake batter? Is that going to work? Or do I need to add more flour to this?

Go 50/50.  For the first couple of days it will looks like there is not enough water but this will start to change

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #229 on: March 29, 2020, 06:18:38 AM »
Fresh out of the oven this morning (about 2 mins ago).  I am really liking quartering my dough to make smaller loaves (about 390 grams each). They freeze very well, can finish them without the last couple of pieces being dry, and are perfect size for sharing.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 06:22:25 AM by Dogastrophe »

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #230 on: March 29, 2020, 10:22:36 AM »
BTW: Just attempted a starter - I started with 1/4 cup of warm bottled/purified drinking water to 1/2 cup of the KAF bread flour but it didn't seem like enough water at all. So I added another 1/4 of warm water and now the mixture is a bit on the runny side but has the consistency of a pancake batter? Is that going to work? Or do I need to add more flour to this?

Go 50/50.  For the first couple of days it will looks like there is not enough water but this will start to change

Yea, I currently have it resting since yesterday with a 1/2 cup of the flour and 1/2 cup of the water. It still looks kind of runny but hoping that'll change. I see *small* bubbles but nothing significant yet.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #231 on: March 29, 2020, 04:42:29 PM »
I ended up moving the bowl to sit on top of the water heater/dispenser and started to notice some small changes. But it would get a bit too hot (over 85-90degrees at times) so I just took it back off. A couple questions:

1) When it says to remove half the starter - do you guys really throw out the other half? Or can that be saved for something else or perhaps given to friends to continue the process? I thought I saw that you can actually use the half you take out to bake some bread though? Is it just not *as good* if you bake bread with the "young"/unfinished starter?

2) When you add more flour and water to the existing mix I'm assuming you continue to mix and incorporate it in well as done with the original starter?

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #232 on: March 29, 2020, 04:58:40 PM »
The only reason to remove starter before you feed it is so you don't end up with an abundance.  If you are using a large container, there is no need to remove starter. 

Until your starter is ready to go, you will likely have poor results using the discarded portion for bread - the yeast just won't be active enough.

Yes, add the new flour and water and mix it in reasonable well.

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #233 on: March 29, 2020, 05:34:01 PM »
You can also make pancakes with the removed starter (or put it on the compost heap).

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #234 on: March 29, 2020, 05:46:24 PM »
I've been storing the discarded starter in a separate mason jar in the fridge so it's mostly inactive, and then once we have enough for pancakes (~2 cups worth) we've been making those from it. It's been a good use for it since you're not really relying on the yeast being active/recently fed to make the pancakes rise.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #235 on: March 29, 2020, 08:51:25 PM »
Sourdough Bread:

1/3 cup starter
1 cup Whole wheat flour
5 cups White bread flour
2 1/2 cups warm water
2 tsp Salt

Mix the water and sourdough starter together in a bowl, then add the whole wheat flour and salt.  Keep mixing in the bowl and adding white flour until it starts to form a ball. pour some flour on a board and coat your hands with flour.  Move the doughball on to the board and knead the flour in.  You want the dough to be just a little bit moist but not super sticky to your fingers.  Depending on the consistency of your starter you might not need to use all of the flour.

Once you've got your dough ball made, divide it into two smaller balls.  Stick the small balls into small baking tins (I usually grease the tins with some olive oil).  Cover the tins with some plastic baggies/saran wrap and leave some place room temperature for 8-10 hours.  The balls should roughly double in size (not double in height though, they get wider) over this time.

Take off the plastic baggies, use a sharp knife to score a cut down the middle of each loaf and Stick 'em in the oven at 375 for about 45 minutes.  Remove from oven and enjoy delicious bread!


Quick Q: sounds like this makes at least two loaves but how big are the loaves roughly? Or how big of a round would this recipe make?



One other question: I've seen/heard of some using pineapple and orange juice initially (instead of waters) for the starter.... does this drastically or noticeably change the flavor profile of the resulting baked bread/goods?
« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 11:34:15 PM by jeromedawg »

Dogastrophe

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #236 on: March 30, 2020, 04:03:35 AM »
Sourdough Bread:

1/3 cup starter
1 cup Whole wheat flour
5 cups White bread flour
2 1/2 cups warm water
2 tsp Salt

Mix the water and sourdough starter together in a bowl, then add the whole wheat flour and salt.  Keep mixing in the bowl and adding white flour until it starts to form a ball. pour some flour on a board and coat your hands with flour.  Move the doughball on to the board and knead the flour in.  You want the dough to be just a little bit moist but not super sticky to your fingers.  Depending on the consistency of your starter you might not need to use all of the flour.

Once you've got your dough ball made, divide it into two smaller balls.  Stick the small balls into small baking tins (I usually grease the tins with some olive oil).  Cover the tins with some plastic baggies/saran wrap and leave some place room temperature for 8-10 hours.  The balls should roughly double in size (not double in height though, they get wider) over this time.

Take off the plastic baggies, use a sharp knife to score a cut down the middle of each loaf and Stick 'em in the oven at 375 for about 45 minutes.  Remove from oven and enjoy delicious bread!


Quick Q: sounds like this makes at least two loaves but how big are the loaves roughly? Or how big of a round would this recipe make?



One other question: I've seen/heard of some using pineapple and orange juice initially (instead of waters) for the starter.... does this drastically or noticeably change the flavor profile of the resulting baked bread/goods?

I do all my measuring by weight but looking at what you have above, I'm guessing it would make two boules approximately 7 to 8" diameter or 4 mini's around the size of the ones I posted above (6 cups of flour is around 720 g ... from memory, I use 800g flour, 360ml water, 320g starter, 18g salt  in my recipe)
« Last Edit: March 30, 2020, 05:13:09 AM by Dogastrophe »

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #237 on: March 30, 2020, 05:00:52 AM »
My loaves are 250g starter, 350ml water and 500g flour, if that helps benchmark against the pictures above.

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #238 on: March 30, 2020, 07:54:22 AM »
Sourdough Bread:

1/3 cup starter
1 cup Whole wheat flour
5 cups White bread flour
2 1/2 cups warm water
2 tsp Salt

Mix the water and sourdough starter together in a bowl, then add the whole wheat flour and salt.  Keep mixing in the bowl and adding white flour until it starts to form a ball. pour some flour on a board and coat your hands with flour.  Move the doughball on to the board and knead the flour in.  You want the dough to be just a little bit moist but not super sticky to your fingers.  Depending on the consistency of your starter you might not need to use all of the flour.

Once you've got your dough ball made, divide it into two smaller balls.  Stick the small balls into small baking tins (I usually grease the tins with some olive oil).  Cover the tins with some plastic baggies/saran wrap and leave some place room temperature for 8-10 hours.  The balls should roughly double in size (not double in height though, they get wider) over this time.

Take off the plastic baggies, use a sharp knife to score a cut down the middle of each loaf and Stick 'em in the oven at 375 for about 45 minutes.  Remove from oven and enjoy delicious bread!


Quick Q: sounds like this makes at least two loaves but how big are the loaves roughly? Or how big of a round would this recipe make?



One other question: I've seen/heard of some using pineapple and orange juice initially (instead of waters) for the starter.... does this drastically or noticeably change the flavor profile of the resulting baked bread/goods?

I do all my measuring by weight but looking at what you have above, I'm guessing it would make two boules approximately 7 to 8" diameter or 4 mini's around the size of the ones I posted above (6 cups of flour is around 720 g ... from memory, I use 800g flour, 360ml water, 320g starter, 18g salt  in my recipe)

Yep.  It makes two decent sized blobs of bread about 7 or 8 inches across.  I've never weighed them.


Haven't heard of adding pineapple or orange juice to a starter.  Not sure if that would actually be beneficial either . . . first of all they are strong flavours, but I'd be worried that they may upset the water/flour balance you're looking for and actually slow development of the type of yeast you want growing in there.  But I certainly don't know everything!  :P

robartsd

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #239 on: March 30, 2020, 04:13:21 PM »
One other question: I've seen/heard of some using pineapple and orange juice initially (instead of waters) for the starter.... does this drastically or noticeably change the flavor profile of the resulting baked bread/goods?
I'm pretty sure the main idea is to provide an initially acidic environment for your culture to develop in. This initially helps the yeast and lactobacilli out compete some other varieties bacteria and mold that might otherwise grow in your young starter. Normal care of your young starter is typically sufficient to provide enough advantage to the preferred cultures. Ongoing the lactobacilli produce lactic acid as they eat, maintaining the acid that provides the sour flavor. An active starter that isn't maintained would eventually killed by excessive lactic acid. I don't expect that using citrus juice initially would have much affect on the ongoing flavor.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #240 on: March 31, 2020, 04:45:24 PM »
Thanks all for the tips.

So I'm on day 2 or 3 (not sure actually - I haven't kept track of when I started lol) of my starter and I've fed it about six times at this point (last couple days I've fed it twice a day):





Does that look OK? I initially started out with equal parts water and flour, which seemed a bit wet but it seemed to still be working. Since, I've lowered the amount of water being added and have gotten it back to what the ratio is that OP posted (which is a 1:2 ratio of water to flour). I've only been feeding it with bread flour as well. It smells slightly sour - a couple days ago it smelled pretty strongly almost like Greek yogurt! Since changing the ratio the smell isn't *as* strong. This definitely doesn't look vigorous like the starters I see all over Youtube but I attribute that to me not having any idea of how to do this and just starting out as well as only using one type of flour lol.

« Last Edit: March 31, 2020, 04:50:18 PM by jeromedawg »

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #241 on: April 01, 2020, 06:32:00 AM »
@jeromedawg Your yeast has bubbles, that is a sign that is is alive. The sour smell is the acidic bacteria that are supposed to be there.

turketron

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #242 on: April 01, 2020, 06:36:52 AM »
Looks ok to me! When I built mine up I was using equal parts flour + water by weight, not volume, and it seemed like a good consistency, so you could try that way if you have a kitchen scale handy. I also used a mason jar for mine, and I found that having it in a vessel that was taller than it was wide made it easier to tell if it's "growing" as any rising is more apparent than it is in a shallower dish :)

GuitarStv

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #243 on: April 01, 2020, 07:13:41 AM »
Looks about right to me.  Is your kitchen cooler?  Usually I see more bubbles when it's hot (summer) and fewer when it's cooler (spring/fall/winter).

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #244 on: April 01, 2020, 08:20:27 AM »
Looks about right to me.  Is your kitchen cooler?  Usually I see more bubbles when it's hot (summer) and fewer when it's cooler (spring/fall/winter).

My kitchen isn't super cold but averages between 70-80F depending on if it's night or day. I have it next to a water heater to try to keep the heat up and have even placed it on top of the water heater and noticed it slightly accelerates things.

Not sure what I was thinking yesterday but I did one more feeding in the early evening and didn't add water. The consistency was too thick so I let it sit then decided it would be good to add water so folded in the correct ratio of warm water before going to bed.... I think that may have killed the starter though because I just took a whiff this morning and it smells like dough. Ughhhh. At a minimum, I suppose I have dough for some fried bread, which I actually made a bit of yesterday (and it wasn't bad - had a slight amount of sourdough taste but not full).

I'm guessing I can't revive it at this point and likely will need to start over :(

GuitarStv

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #245 on: April 01, 2020, 08:22:00 AM »
Looks about right to me.  Is your kitchen cooler?  Usually I see more bubbles when it's hot (summer) and fewer when it's cooler (spring/fall/winter).

My kitchen isn't super cold but averages between 70-80F depending on if it's night or day. I have it next to a water heater to try to keep the heat up and have even placed it on top of the water heater and noticed it slightly accelerates things.

Not sure what I was thinking yesterday but I did one more feeding in the early evening and didn't add water. The consistency was too thick so I let it sit then decided it would be good to add water so folded in the correct ratio of warm water before going to bed.... I think that may have killed the starter though because I just took a whiff this morning and it smells like dough. Ughhhh. At a minimum, I suppose I have dough for some fried bread, which I actually made a bit of yesterday (and it wasn't bad - had a slight amount of sourdough taste but not full).

I'm guessing I can't revive it at this point and likely will need to start over :(

If you overfeed it you won't kill it (after all, that's what you do when you make bread).  Just skip a feeding or or two and it should be back to where it was before.

jeromedawg

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #246 on: April 01, 2020, 09:08:53 AM »
Looks about right to me.  Is your kitchen cooler?  Usually I see more bubbles when it's hot (summer) and fewer when it's cooler (spring/fall/winter).

My kitchen isn't super cold but averages between 70-80F depending on if it's night or day. I have it next to a water heater to try to keep the heat up and have even placed it on top of the water heater and noticed it slightly accelerates things.

Not sure what I was thinking yesterday but I did one more feeding in the early evening and didn't add water. The consistency was too thick so I let it sit then decided it would be good to add water so folded in the correct ratio of warm water before going to bed.... I think that may have killed the starter though because I just took a whiff this morning and it smells like dough. Ughhhh. At a minimum, I suppose I have dough for some fried bread, which I actually made a bit of yesterday (and it wasn't bad - had a slight amount of sourdough taste but not full).

I'm guessing I can't revive it at this point and likely will need to start over :(

If you overfeed it you won't kill it (after all, that's what you do when you make bread).  Just skip a feeding or or two and it should be back to where it was before.

Ah ok, good to know. I actually just added a bit more flour and water this AM and mixed it in - the sourdough smell is faintly there. I think I'll pull back on the feedings and just be more patient. It's really hard to be patient waiting and hoping for it to develop though! Especially when I start smelling it and get that sourdough smell lol.

LightTripper

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #247 on: April 01, 2020, 11:09:32 AM »
I'd be very surprised if you've killed it.  Mine isn't that bubbly and probably not the best starter ever (and my house runs fairly cold this time of year) BUT it passes a float test, and it makes tasty bread, so I'm happy enough with it (even though I would quite like to have one of those really impressive bubbly over ones from YouTube one day!! :D)

Linea_Norway

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #248 on: April 01, 2020, 11:15:51 AM »
I have read or heard that if you want to store the starter for weeks in your fridge, you can feed it a lot of flour without water.

therethere

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Re: The sourdough thread
« Reply #249 on: April 01, 2020, 11:17:18 AM »
Any hints on how thick/dense should the dough be? I damn near broke my Kitchenaid kneading the dough prior to making a loaf. It was so thick that the bowl kept popping out of the locking mechanism!