Author Topic: No power to switch in attic  (Read 1453 times)

billy

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No power to switch in attic
« on: June 03, 2022, 11:26:38 AM »
I'm trouble shooting a light switch in my attic that's not getting any volts, it turns on power to an outlet and a light, and none of the 3 are getting any volts. No signs of worn out/blackened receptacles, and all wires look good. No Circuit breakers were tripped on the sub panel or main panel, I did turn all breakers off and back on. Everything else in the house works okay, any ideas?
https://imgur.com/a/PKMc4ue

ChpBstrd

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #1 on: June 03, 2022, 12:09:35 PM »
Have you ever witnessed these circuits working in the past?

If you are qualified and willing to risk your life, maybe pull the cover plate off of your electrical panel and see if one of the wires has slipped out of its breaker. Also, breakers themselves can go bad, so use this opportunity to test for voltage at each line. An "on" breaker that delivers zero volts is probably a broke breaker.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2022, 03:05:24 PM »
I am presuming that the image you posted is of the switch (the device is off camera).

What I see is 3 wires enter the box, all the neutral are bound together, all the grounds are bound together, 2 of the hots are bound together with a pigtail to the switch, and the last hot is on the other side of the switch.

If it is wired correctly you are testing across the incoming hot and neutral. No current there tells me it is not the switch/outlets/light that are at fault and it is somewhere upstream.

I would try the simple things first. Cycle the breaker, look around for GFI outlets and reset them, and test for anything else that is not functioning correctly.

Do you have a non-contact(inductive) voltage tester? If so check if the hot is actually dead. If you do not have one check the voltage between the hot and the ground. If either test shows an active hot you have a break in the neutral somewhere.

After that ... well there are any number of things it could be. I like to work my way back to the breaker box. If I can figure out the route of the wire I check each box it passes through for loose or bad connections at a switch/outlet or dumb things (like a switch that is controlled by a different switch). If you make it all the way back to the main panel it could be a bad connection at the breaker/neutral bar or a bad breaker.

This should go without saying, but call in a professional at whatever point you are uncomfortable. I can disconnect power to my main, personally I do not do work with hot wires (but I do testing, like you, with live wires).


billy

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2022, 05:12:27 PM »
All 3 did work in the past, I'm not sure it's a bad breaker/neutral bar as the outlets seem to be connected to something else, maybe the "furnace" breaker in the sub panel, and the furnace is working okay.

Yes, the one I was testing with a volt meter was the light switch.

I noticed the hot coming in (supplying power) is connected to the top of the light switch, and the hot from the light is also connected to the light switch.

Yes, I was testing the incoming hot and neutral, ya it sure looks like it's upstream.

I did cycle the breakers, reset all the GFI outlets in the house, and tested all the 120v oulets which were good.

I don't have a non-contact voltage tester, I'll go back up in the attic next week and test the hot and ground, I imagine if I turn the switch on, I can do that test with the outlet, so I don't have to open the switch back up?



sonofsven

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2022, 05:18:02 PM »
Is the circuit coming from the fixture to the switch or to the switch first? It could be done either way.
You'll need to go back downstream and figure out what is between the hot wires where they come into the attic and the panel.
How far can you trace the wire back?
If you know what circuit this attic is in the breaker box you could turn all the other circuits off and see what still works, then  check the connections of what works to see where it feeds this attic.

billy

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2022, 05:42:57 PM »
The hot/power is connected to the switch first.

dblaace

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2022, 01:23:31 PM »
The hot/power is connected to the switch first.
I would trace the supply side back. Since it's in the attack it should be easier to trace to where it drops into a wall. Look for a switch or outlet below that. I doubt a single light and outlet runs back to the panel. to it's own breaker.

BlueHouse

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2022, 07:05:21 AM »
Is there any chance that's on a GFCI circuit?

In my home, all the normal (kitchen, bath) outlets are clearly GFCI outlets, but the bedroom outlets and a few other random outlets are also on the same circuit (code when I moved in).  The outlets give no indication that they are GFCI because they don't have a reset.  When they go out, I need to go into the garage, where there is a GFCI outlet and reset that outlet in order to get light back. 

My whole neighborhood was built this way and at least 2x/ year, someone asks for help because they can't get power back to a light somewhere. 


billy

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2022, 07:08:55 AM »
I already tried resetting all the GFCI outlets in the house, I was hoping that was it.

BudgetSlasher

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2022, 10:23:05 AM »
All 3 did work in the past, I'm not sure it's a bad breaker/neutral bar as the outlets seem to be connected to something else, maybe the "furnace" breaker in the sub panel, and the furnace is working okay.

Yes, the one I was testing with a volt meter was the light switch.

I noticed the hot coming in (supplying power) is connected to the top of the light switch, and the hot from the light is also connected to the light switch.

Yes, I was testing the incoming hot and neutral, ya it sure looks like it's upstream.

I did cycle the breakers, reset all the GFI outlets in the house, and tested all the 120v oulets which were good.

I don't have a non-contact voltage tester, I'll go back up in the attic next week and test the hot and ground, I imagine if I turn the switch on, I can do that test with the outlet, so I don't have to open the switch back up?

If you know where the circuit ends (the attic) and where is begins, or at least is still workings (furnace) you can work from both directions to check all the connections.

Assuming that the switch is not also a problem, you should be able to test the hot to ground load path at any outlet when it is switched on.

Sibley

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2022, 01:05:53 PM »
Do you have a map of each and every electrical thing in the building? IE, you know what's on each circuit? Sometimes it's weird.

billy

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2022, 07:00:04 PM »
No I don't have a line diagram, unfortunately.
 
I did go back up there in the Attic today and tested ground/neutral  and ground/hot, still showed zero volts, but I did notice that the multimeter showed a negative symbol briefly and then went away not sure if that matters?


sonofsven

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2022, 10:39:33 PM »
A real electrician wouldn't power an attic off a gfci, that would be cruel! A diy person might, though.
If you think it might be run off a gfci then pick the most likely one and remove the outlet from the equation and wire nut the connections (just temporarily) . GFCI outlets break easily and often.
If it's not the gfci, trace the wire back as far as you can see it in the attic and take your best guess on where it's coming from, and check all the connections.
It's most likely coming from an outlet not a light or switch, but it could possibly be coming from a light ceiling box, depending on how it's wired.
You could also use the continuity function on your multimeter and a long bit of wire, even speaker wire would work.
With all power off, you'd wire nut the black lead in the attic in the switch box, what you think is the hot coming in, to the speaker wire (or equivalent).
Then go to what your best guess is on where the wire is before the attic, disconnect the black lead you think is going to the attic, and check for continuity  by attaching your meter leads between the speaker wire and the black wire in question.
If you have continuity, it's the same wire.
Check where the leads plug into your multimeter, too, it's different than the voltage plug ins, also there's a "beep" setting usually that beeps continouisly if you have, you guessed it, continuity.
Keep disconnecting and checking the black wires in different locations until you find it, always with the power off. This will get you on the correct circuit, at least.
This will only tell you what you need to know if the problem is a bad connection; if the wire is broken you'll never have continuity..

ChpBstrd

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Re: No power to switch in attic
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2022, 06:57:41 AM »
In my older house, there is a switch in the hallway controlling a circuit that used to the be attic fan. I have it capped off in the attic now that the fan isn't there, but the switch is still on the wall. Maybe you have something similar?

 

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