The sourdough thread

[Dogastrophe]

Right, started the starter... Used warm water from the tap whereas I remembered straight after I used to use water from our filter jug as the course I went on suggested it might be good to let the chlorine etc evaporate off.... Still, hopefully it's not too strong and if it doesn't work I'll try again with jug water!

Don't give up on this. It's not the water, it's your patience.  I pull my water straight from tap (municipal water supply) and have not had an issue with starter.

It will take you 6 to 7 days to develop your starter.  Dispose of half (by weight) and add same amount of flour and water.  Do this daily.  By Day 4 you should start to see bubbles forming.  By day 7 you should be good to go.  Your starter will get better with age.

[LightTripper]

Ahh OK, thanks!! Everything I read suggested it should be bubbling within a couple of days.... I'll be more patient!!

[Dogastrophe]

Mine was ~4 maybe 5 days before it took off.  Here is a nice tutorial: https://youtu.be/2FVfJTGpXnU

[LightTripper]

Great video, thanks!!

[GuitarStv]

The recipe to start sourdough that I mentioned in the first post of this thread is a pretty thick one, and works well in warm temperatures for me . . . I find that this means you can forget it for a while without your starter dying.  There are recipes that are much more liquidy that seem to get going more quickly, but might require more care to keep alive.

[Ichabod]

I'm on day 9 of beginning my starter. I'm feeding it twice a day, but it's not quite doubling in size. Maybe 70-80% bigger? The texture, color, smell all seem fine. The only reason I haven't tried to start a loaf yet is that it keeps failing the float test. House is 72 degrees.

Should I go ahead and try to bake a loaf? Or do I need to keep waiting.

[habanero]

It is probably cursing in the sourdough church, but I made my starter from flower mixed with some homemade beer of type witbier. I shook the cask so that the was some yeast floating around. This beer also contained some lactic acid bacteria. The starter work very well from the beginning.

Well, if it works it works. But I don't quite understand why you seem to think it's necessary to add something containing yeast and/or bacteria to get a starter going. It isn't. Flour and water is all you need and that's how it's been done for centuries.

[GuitarStv]

I'm on day 9 of beginning my starter. I'm feeding it twice a day, but it's not quite doubling in size. Maybe 70-80% bigger? The texture, color, smell all seem fine. The only reason I haven't tried to start a loaf yet is that it keeps failing the float test. House is 72 degrees.

Should I go ahead and try to bake a loaf? Or do I need to keep waiting.

If it's growing 80% each day I'd say you're probably good, and would give it a try.  Maybe give the bread a little extra long to rise.

[habanero]

It's also possible to make Berliner Weisse (a beer style from, well, Berlin) using sourdough. You make the worth as normal and they you just add 1dl sourdough starter pr 10 liters of wort and wait a few weeks until the acidity is prominent enough. Easiest is to just taste it, otherwise a pH meter can be used if you have one lying around. Just remeber to use very little hops as per the brew instructions, too much hops and the bacteria cannot do their thing.

[Dogastrophe]

I somewhat messed up my loaf this morning. I normally do two loaves at a time but decided to only make one this week. I didn't adjust my cook time to compensate resulting in a slightly darker loaf than I normally like.  Also had a bit of tear out at bottom of loaf but nothing too serious. However, it is still a good loaf.

I've been playing around with score patterns - this was two outer scores with a series of small ones in middle trying to resemble a wheat sheaf ... didn't quite work. 

[LightTripper]

I somewhat messed up my loaf this morning. I normally do two loaves at a time but decided to only make one this week. I didn't adjust my cook time to compensate resulting in a slightly darker loaf than I normally like.  Also had a bit of tear out at bottom of loaf but nothing too serious. However, it is still a good loaf.

I've been playing around with score patterns - this was two outer scores with a series of small ones in middle trying to resemble a wheat sheaf ... didn't quite work.

It's a thing of beauty!! And the course I went on was very pro a dark crust... I think it's a matter of style!

[Dogastrophe]

A few months ago this was what I came home to with my starter (which I named Frank ... all "pets" need a name).

Sry - can't figure out how to rotate the pic correctly :)

[LightTripper]

It has rotated correctly!! Making a break for freedom... And who can blame it, full of energy and bursting with life!

[KBecks]

posting to follow, I have a jar of neglected starter in the back of the fridge at the moment

[Dogastrophe]

Not sourdough but also made a double loaf of white bread this morning (and a batch of chocolate chip cookies)

[LightTripper]

That is beautiful too!! Double tin I guess??

I've gone down a YouTube sourdough rabbit hole.... Hurry up starter, I need to EAT YOU!!

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

Sourdough Pizza Crusts:

Thanks for the recipe.  Have you tried the pizza crusts on a baking stone?  I'm wondering if you would put olive oil on the stone first or just put the pizza crust directly on the stone?

I've never used a baking stone and don't really know how they work.  If the olive oil runs off of it though, I guess you could dust it with flour or cornmeal to prevent sticking.

Recommend using cornmeal as the "unstick" stuff - oil would burn and make a really awful mess and smoke, IMO, putting it directly on the stone. I shape my pizza then transfer to a baking sheet (or a pizza peel, the special "shovel" that you can use) that's liberally coated with cornmeal (semolina flour is truly ideal; I don't fuss enough to try to source it so use cornmeal) before topping it. Shake the baking sheet occasionally to make sure the pizza still moves. Slide it off the baking sheet directly onto the stone and bake away! The cornmeal will wind up burning eventually. I'd worry that oil would burn faster and maybe even burst into flames. But?

Could also do the pizza on the grill. Mmm.

[Dogastrophe]

That is beautiful too!! Double tin I guess??

I've gone down a YouTube sourdough rabbit hole.... Hurry up starter, I need to EAT YOU!!

Yes, used a long 2-lb loaf pan

[alienbogey]

I'd like to point out that the 1847 starter mentioned in 2013 on this thread is still available:

http://carlsfriends.net

I obtained this starter in 1999 and still have it going strong today.  Its name is Herman and seeing this thread is inspiring me to take him out of the fridge, feed him, and bake a couple of loaves tomorrow.

[LightTripper]

I'd like to point out that the 1847 starter mentioned in 2013 on this thread is still available:

http://carlsfriends.net

I obtained this starter in 1999 and still have it going strong today.  Its name is Herman and seeing this thread is inspiring me to take him out of the fridge, feed him, and bake a couple of loaves tomorrow.

That's an impressively elderly starter!!

My baby one is starting to show a few signs of life (smelling a teeny bit startery too...)

Might transfer it to a jar so I can see what's going on a bit better...

[turketron]

I've been meaning to try sourdough for awhile but we're pretty inconsistent as it is with how often we bake bread (probably only every month or two) and so I didn't like the idea of maintaining a starter every day  for infrequent use. But after reading more about it here (and watching a lot of youtube videos) I think keeping it in the fridge should work for us. I think I'll pick up some whole wheat flour (we normally just have AP on hand) this weekend and try out a starter. We keep our house pretty cool in the winter (~60F) so I'm anticipating it'll take longer to get going. I'll report back with my progress!

[STEMorbust]

Good loaf!


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[GuitarStv]

I've been meaning to try sourdough for awhile but we're pretty inconsistent as it is with how often we bake bread (probably only every month or two) and so I didn't like the idea of maintaining a starter every day  for infrequent use. But after reading more about it here (and watching a lot of youtube videos) I think keeping it in the fridge should work for us. I think I'll pick up some whole wheat flour (we normally just have AP on hand) this weekend and try out a starter. We keep our house pretty cool in the winter (~60F) so I'm anticipating it'll take longer to get going. I'll report back with my progress!

If you keep a cool house, try getting your starter going in the microwave.  First put a mug of water in, and microwave until it's boiling.  Then mix up you starter in a bowl and stick it in the microwave next to but not touching the water.  The water keeps things warm and humid in the enclosed space.

I've had good luck freezing starter in the freezer for 2-3 months if we're not baking sourdough for a while.  Just let it thaw and feed for a couple days, it comes back to life pretty reliably.

[turketron]

If you keep a cool house, try getting your starter going in the microwave.  First put a mug of water in, and microwave until it's boiling.  Then mix up you starter in a bowl and stick it in the microwave next to but not touching the water.  The water keeps things warm and humid in the enclosed space.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I've proofed bread dough in the oven before (switched off, with a pan filled with boiling water underneath) but didn't want to do that with this because I could very easily see one of us turning on the oven to preheat without realizing it's in there.

[LightTripper]

Beautiful loaf STEM!

I was hoping I'd be ready to bake this weekend but the starter isn't really there yet (definitely going in the right direction, more bubbles than there were, but not there yet).  The kitchen is the coolest part of our house but there isn't really anywhere else practical to put it - but as long as the bubbles and sour smell keep increasing I think I'll just bear with it and hope that it just takes 2 weeks to get going rather than one!

[Linea_Norway]

Next week we will go home. Then I'll try to make a new loaf, from wheat this time.
I hope the starter survived the two week period in the fridge. I made it much thicker than usual.

[habanero]

Next week we will go home. Then I'll try to make a new loaf, from wheat this time.
I hope the starter survived the two week period in the fridge. I made it much thicker than usual.

If your starter is dead after 2 weeks in the fridge there is somthing wrong with it. As long as there is no mould you are fine. It might have split (a layer of liquid formed on top of the jar) but that is nothing to worry about, just stir it and it's fine.

A freshly fed starter makes the dough rise quicker, and old one makes the dough more acidic.

[STEMorbust]

Beautiful loaf STEM!

I was hoping I'd be ready to bake this weekend but the starter isn't really there yet (definitely going in the right direction, more bubbles than there were, but not there yet).  The kitchen is the coolest part of our house but there isn't really anywhere else practical to put it - but as long as the bubbles and sour smell keep increasing I think I'll just bear with it and hope that it just takes 2 weeks to get going rather than one!

Thanks! Consider storing near your hot water heater. That’s what we did last winter. New house now and have it on a wire rack I close proximity to a heating vent.


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[LightTripper]

Unfortunately our hot water heater is in the kids' craft cupboard, so that won't work. Maybe I'll give it a holiday in my room, which is warmer!! But my old starter would come to life at room temp, so I suspect this one will get there, even if slowly. It definitely is getting more bubbly with time, but nothing like doubling!!

[SailingOnASmallSailboat]

Unfortunately our hot water heater is in the kids' craft cupboard, so that won't work. Maybe I'll give it a holiday in my room, which is warmer!! But my old starter would come to life at room temp, so I suspect this one will get there, even if slowly. It definitely is getting more bubbly with time, but nothing like doubling!!

Could also bring it into the bathroom and take a hot shower, no fan running, and then leave the door closed trapping the heat inside.

[habanero]

If you need to maintain something at a given temperature a handy device is a STC-1000 (temperature controller, about 8 bucks off eBay), a socket, a case and some wires and a heat source. I use a frost guard but anything capable of outputting a few watts will do. Just put in in some enclosed space and set the temperature and the STC-1000 will turn the heat source on and off to maintain temperature within some range you set. This is popular equipment for homebrewers to control the fermentation which has to be kept at certain temperatures but it can be used for any situation when you need some specific temperature for something. if you use a fridge and some heat source you can maintain temperatures both above and below ambient temp.

[LightTripper]

Thank you!! I went with the idea of putting it in the microwave next to a mug of hot water and that seems to have helped!! Problem is it's the working week now, so I'll be constrained to looking twice a day, but hopefully it's getting some momentum now!

[Linea_Norway]

Thank you!! I went with the idea of putting it in the microwave next to a mug of hot water and that seems to have helped!! Problem is it's the working week now, so I'll be constrained to looking twice a day, but hopefully it's getting some momentum now!

We have a rack for growing verh young plants. You can put it in a socket and it will produce a little warmth.

[iluvzbeach]

Posting to follow. I’ve enjoyed reading what others have going on with their starter and this is something I want to do.

[habanero]

Thanks! Consider storing near your hot water heater. That’s what we did last winter. New house now and have it on a wire rack I close proximity to a heating vent.


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Nice loaf! I have actually never gotten the big holes inside the bread that is rather common in sourdough bakes. I actually don't want them since I find them impractical, but I would like to know what to do to actually get them. I do the 1st rise in the mixing bowl, then folding and stretching every 30 minutes 3 times, then final proofing and baking.

[LightTripper]

Posting to follow. I’ve enjoyed reading what others have going on with their starter and this is something I want to do.

Well, I just took my starter up to my bedroom with me (it's warmer up here...) so you may not want to follow eeeeverything :-D

[turketron]

Okay, we're now on day 4 with ours! On Saturday I mixed up the starter using whole wheat flour, and despite the cool temps in my kitchen by Monday morning it was already double in size, and as of today it's starting to smell sour. My wife named him Jorge.

Well, I just took my starter up to my bedroom with me (it's warmer up here...) so you may not want to follow eeeeverything :-D

I just was considering putting ours in our upstairs bathroom for the same reason but thought that might be kinda weird, glad to see I'm not alone :D

[Linea_Norway]

I use my sourdough (wheat) for only 2 purposes in practice. One is for pizza dough, the other is "the bread" - its the only kind I bake on a regular basis. I do as follows.

Day 1 early: I take almost all the starter (about 200g) and add 50/50 water/wheat by weight until I have 500g of dough. Leave this to rise until the evening.
Day 1 late: Take the dough from above and add 300g beer (typically an American Pale ale or similar) and 100g cold water, 125-150g rye flour and 650g wheat flour (1kg flour in total including the amount from step 1). So my dough is some where around 660g liquid and 1kf flour in total. To this I add 22g of salt (use an accurate scale for this). This looks like a large amount of salt, and it is, but it's what is needed.

I run it in the machine for 25 minutes and adjust with water or flour if needed. Cover the bowl with clingfilm and leave overnight.

Day 2 early: If risen sufficiently, pour out and shape a loaf. Every 30 minutes strecht out all sides, fold back towards the middle and leave with the joint down. Repeat 3 times. Last time I put on a baking paper and let rise until about doubled in size. Typically until after work.

Baking: I head the tray in the over at 250 celsius. Cut bread with a sharp knife, pull the baking paper with bread onto the hot tray, back in oven and throw in about 1dl boiling hot water and close.  The steam gives a nice crust. Leave for 15 minutes and lower temp to 210 celsius and bake until done. Doneness is judged either by knocking on underside and listen for a "hollow" sound, or more fail-safe: Use a thermometer. If centre of bread > 92 degrees celsius it's done. This goes for all wheat-based baking btw. Takes about 40-45 mins total.

Result:

Thanks. I am trying this now.
I don't have a big enough kitchen machine, so I used a hand mixer for about 15 minutes.

Status: This is the beginning of day two. After a night on the workbench, it has more than doubled in size, maybe almost tripled. After breakfast, I will start the stretching and folding and making a loaf.

Status: I baked them one at the time, because one of the loafs was too big to share the oven with a second loaf. One in my glass form and one without a form. Both looked very good when I cut them through after they cooled off. As we just had dinner, I didn't taste them, but they will be breakfast and lunch tomorrow. I used a meat thermometer to check the core temp. And after 15 minutes on 250 C and 25 minutes on 210 C both had a core temperature of 93 C.

[LightTripper]

Well, the bad news is I don't think my starter is doing anything much. The good news is that a local friend is also trying to get one going, so if hers works it might not matter that mine is a bit of a flop!!

[turketron]

After a week of feeding the starter, I figured it was time to make a loaf and see how it turned out! The bread was mostly a success, the failures were on my part while baking and I don't think were related to the starter.  I did half AP and half whole wheat flour, and too much hydration (I miscalculated the water)- the dough was pretty sticky and I had some trouble with it sticking to the tea towel I used to line the "proofing basket" (I used a mesh colander). I did a cold proof overnight in the fridge (recommended by a lot of the videos/recipes I read) before baking, and baked in a dutch oven. I forgot to turn down the heat after taking the lid off the oven for the second half of the baking, so the crust got dark way too quickly so it was a little underdone in the center.

All in all, I'm ok with how it turned out! It wasn't quite as sour as I was hoping for, so my next goal is to figure out how to get it more fermented next time. Here are some photos!

[MrsP]

After some serious lurking on the forum, this thread compelled me to join! I was recently given a healthy starter (after some awful attempts to make my own) and I seem to have it going nicely.

I've been using the Artisan bread in 5 method for years (keeping a bucket of dough in the fridge) and am looking to start using sourdough as my leavening agent. The website says this is possible. I have some rising at the moment. Has anyone else done this? How did it go?

[StashingAway]

The recipe to start sourdough that I mentioned in the first post of this thread is a pretty thick one, and works well in warm temperatures for me . . . I find that this means you can forget it for a while without your starter dying.  There are recipes that are much more liquidy that seem to get going more quickly, but might require more care to keep alive.

Do you have any recommendations for adjusting the recipe/process to temperature differences? Our house sits at 58* this time of year... most recipes say to keep it at 70*, but then leave me hanging! I read this as just adding a bit more water during the cold months

[Dogastrophe]

I have a bread book at home that discusses kitchen / house temperatures and what to do with bread recipes.  If I get a chance this weekend I will find it and report back.

[GuitarStv]

The recipe to start sourdough that I mentioned in the first post of this thread is a pretty thick one, and works well in warm temperatures for me . . . I find that this means you can forget it for a while without your starter dying.  There are recipes that are much more liquidy that seem to get going more quickly, but might require more care to keep alive.

Do you have any recommendations for adjusting the recipe/process to temperature differences? Our house sits at 58* this time of year... most recipes say to keep it at 70*, but then leave me hanging! I read this as just adding a bit more water during the cold months

Get a large mug of water and run it in the microwave until boiling, then push the mug to the back of the microwave and stick your starter in there.  It'll warm up a decent amount.  Repeat the process with your loafs of bread as they're rising.  This has always worked for me in our frigid winter house.

[habanero]

It shouldn't really matter if its a bit chilly indoors, it will just take more time. And keeping the bake in a hotter environment will obviously speed things up, but probably not yield a better end result.

[LightTripper]

On this topic, I had kind of given up on my starter but I fed it anyway and then put it in the fridge. Today we have family over and had the oven on a lot so I thought I'd get it out and feed it and just see what happened and looky looky!! Definite signs of life...

[Dogastrophe]

I have a bread book at home that discusses kitchen / house temperatures and what to do with bread recipes.  If I get a chance this weekend I will find it and report back.

Found book - the temperature piece was about adjusting water temperature in yeasted breads to account for house temperature.

[StashingAway]

I have a bread book at home that discusses kitchen / house temperatures and what to do with bread recipes.  If I get a chance this weekend I will find it and report back.

Found book - the temperature piece was about adjusting water temperature in yeasted breads to account for house temperature.

Interesting. I'm surprised because that means the starter would only be affected for the few minutes that the water temperature has an effect and then reach room temp equilibrium. But if it just takes some warmer water and a longer ferment time, I guess there's no harm in giving it a go! I'll put it upstairs where it's warmer..

I  just got some non-reactive containers to dedicate to this process, so it's off to the races!

[StashingAway]

Well, this thread inspired me to give it another shot.

This is the third starter that I've tried in my lifetime, and whaddya know:

[Dogastrophe]

I have a bread book at home that discusses kitchen / house temperatures and what to do with bread recipes.  If I get a chance this weekend I will find it and report back.

Found book - the temperature piece was about adjusting water temperature in yeasted breads to account for house temperature.

Interesting. I'm surprised because that means the starter would only be affected for the few minutes that the water temperature has an effect and then reach room temp equilibrium. But if it just takes some warmer water and a longer ferment time, I guess there's no harm in giving it a go! I'll put it upstairs where it's warmer..

I  just got some non-reactive containers to dedicate to this process, so it's off to the races!

I've ignored all the temperature adjustment advice in my book and have not had any issues.  When I am making a bread with instant or active dry yeast, I turn my hot tap on and let it run for a minute which gives me a water temp of ~110F.  It doesn't concern me if my kitchen is cold or warm as far as ingredient temp goes.  If warm, I will lessen my proof times. 

For my sourdough, after the bulk fermentation, I do final proof in the fridge - usually 12 - 18 hours depending on when things were ready the day prior.