Author Topic: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions  (Read 1090 times)

Healthie

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Hi everyone,

I'm renoing the main-floor bathroom in my current house (will be the rental property in a few years) and would like some input on a few things:

Fan:
The basement bathroom fan has a sharp 90 degree turn; another member recommended I replace this with steel tubing; thoughts?

Window:
I have a window over the tub/shower. the window has leaked and there the wall has mold and water damage. I've had two suggestions: completely drywalling it over, or replacing the window with glass blocks. Thoughts? Is there a risk of having the glass blocks leak?

Subfloor:
I ripped up the diagonal boards in my subfloor and have since realized I didn't have to. Going forward, should I shave off the last bits of board sticking out, add 2x4's to the walls for the new subfloor to screw into, use 3/4 plywood over the bathtub, and 1/2 cement board over the remainder of the bathroom where I'll be tiling, as the new subfloor?

Drywall:
Cement backerboard will be used around the tub - should I add a vapor barrier underneath before drywalling?

Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2018, 01:22:30 PM »
I've remodeled at least 50 bathrooms so have good experience here:

Subfloor:  Cut away what is left of the diagonal boards flush with the bottom plate of the wall.  "Double up" the floor joists where the new subfloor will just hang at the ends (where it runs parallel to the floor joists) or insert a new floor joist at this point.  A 2x4 is not sturdy enough for this task.  Match the height of the existing floor joists.  If possible, run it the entire length that other floor joist run so that they are supported at each end.  If this is not possible, install perpendicular blocking between two floor joists to secure the new joist to at the ends like so:


____________________-
    l                          l
    l--------------------l
    l                          l
----------------------------

3/4 plywood the ENTIRE floor.  Glue and screw it.  Then install 1/4 inch or 1/2 inch cement board over the 3/4 plywood, whichever brings you to your desired finished floor height minus the tile+mortar thickness.  In most cases 1/4 inch cement board is a better choice.  You do not need cement board under the tub.

Fan:  Rotate the fan so the exhaust tubing is straight.

Window:  Glass blocks have as much of a chance of leaking as a new window.  I don't like windows in a shower for the reasons you are finding in your walls now.  I'm sure there is a way to install so it does not leak, I just don't know what that way is.

Vapor barrier:  Not necessary in my opinion but follow local codes.  It has been my experience that vapor barriers can cause mildew issues but this may not be true in your climate.  Use the drywall designed for wet areas, usually it is green or purple.  1/2 inch cement board around tub.  Mesh tape and mortar all joints and screw holes, then apply RedGuard or other waterproof coating after mortar dries.

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2018, 07:47:40 PM »
The above info is great. I’ll add for the window as we’ve done 1/2 dozen with windows in the surround.

Replace the window with a vinyl window. Make sure it sits on a water proof sill pan that drains both outside and back into the shower. Water proof the 2x4 side walls/window frame.  Trim out with vinyl. Caulk.

Basically, water will be getting into this area.  You want it to flow away back over top of your waterproofing on both interior and exterior of the structure.

Considering red guard - this acts as a vapor barrier as well as waterproofing. Your back wall, if you red guard to the ceiling, will act as the vapor barrier for your insulation. You do NOT want 2 vapor barriers. 


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lthenderson

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 07:41:48 AM »
Fan:
The basement bathroom fan has a sharp 90 degree turn; another member recommended I replace this with steel tubing; thoughts?

Window:
I have a window over the tub/shower. the window has leaked and there the wall has mold and water damage. I've had two suggestions: completely drywalling it over, or replacing the window with glass blocks. Thoughts? Is there a risk of having the glass blocks leak?

Subfloor:
I ripped up the diagonal boards in my subfloor and have since realized I didn't have to. Going forward, should I shave off the last bits of board sticking out, add 2x4's to the walls for the new subfloor to screw into, use 3/4 plywood over the bathtub, and 1/2 cement board over the remainder of the bathroom where I'll be tiling, as the new subfloor?

Drywall:
Cement backerboard will be used around the tub - should I add a vapor barrier underneath before drywalling?

Fan - There is little to gain in improved airflow by replacing with metal tubing. Either leave it alone or rotate 90 degrees if possible. Another option is to replace.

Window - Definitely do not drywall over a window. Either fix the leak or replace the window after fixing the damage. I dislike windows in the shower area as they tend to condensate which accelerates problems.

Subfloor - Replace with new 3/4" subfloor and then apply mastic and thin cement board that is screwed down approximately every 8 inches where you will be tiling.

Tub Surround - Unclear what you are wanting to do. It sounds like you want to apply backerboard and then drywall on top of that. Like the other suggestion above, just buy the water resistant drywall. No need for the cement backerboard unless you are tiling. If the latter is what you are intending to do, you do need a vapor barrier. You can either put one between the studs and the backerboard or get a paintable one that you apply to the face of the backerboard before tiling. However, don't do both methods together or you create an vapor barrier envelope that just collects moisture.

Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2018, 10:47:44 PM »
Thanks everyone -

the fan I can move to flow straight; I'll have to cut into the drywall and patch the old spot the fan was installed but should be fine.

new problem: the jack stud + crimp stud are rotted. I ripped out the crimp stud thinking I could just replace it tonight and realized the jack stud is also rotten.

Can I replace this by jacking up the floor stud, removing the kind stud then putting in a new jack stud, reinstalling king stud, and taking the jack off?

Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2018, 10:52:43 PM »
See picture re: rotten jack stud

lthenderson

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2018, 07:16:43 AM »
Can I replace this by jacking up the floor stud, removing the kind stud then putting in a new jack stud, reinstalling king stud, and taking the jack off?

Is it a load bearing wall? If it isn't, you can just takeout and replace. If it is, then yes, you need to support the header while you remove the king and jack studs.

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2018, 07:44:58 AM »
It’s hard to tell from your pictures - do your wall studs sit on a bottom plate that sits on top of your floor joists? 

Also, make sure you take all the drywall off that exterior wall with the window. If you could take another picture with better lighting, we can see what we’re dealing with here.

Basically, if this is balloon framed (probably not from the pictures) it gets much more complicated.  If it is platform framed (more common now), then you should be able to repair this pretty easily.  You need to support the header with a temporary 2x4, remove the rotted wood, replace the wood, then take out your temporary support. 

Are you keeping the window in the shower?  If you are going through this and keeping the window, consider sizing it smaller. When we keep the windows in the surround, we try to raise them up closer to 5-6’ from subfloor.  This greatly reduces water issues.  And as I said before, get a waterproof sill pan that peaks in the center so water can exit to the exterior and over your interior surround.


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Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2018, 09:06:57 AM »
Here's a picture of the bottom plate.

I am keeping the window in - my plan is to get the sill pan and caulk the crap outta it.

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2018, 10:24:58 AM »
Pic wasn’t attached. Can you get the entire open wall in the pic with all the drywall off?


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Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2018, 10:39:27 AM »
don't know why it didn't show.

I'll get the rest of the drywall off once the subfloor is in; will be a couple days. Thanks for your consistent advice papa!

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2018, 10:58:34 AM »
How rotted are the 2x4’s?  Can you stick a knife or screwdriver through them easily?  Or do they just look moldy/dirty?


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Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2018, 01:19:11 PM »
Papa: I took chunks out of a portion of the stud with a screwdriver easily.  Studs on the R side of the window have black sections but are strong.

Another question: in some sections I managed to rip the dub fooor out from under the wall; should I put something in that space for support? See picture.

Bought a dremil today and cutting the little hunks out of the floor; Stenioís are awesome!

Edit: pictures are sideways, rotate screen right!

Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2018, 02:58:37 PM »
Just did a run to get all my supplies, just need to do the work!

I am adding 2x6s along the walls for the subfloor to screw into something but in some areas.i have pipes or cables like the picture; what should I do here? IVe thought about cutting out the space or putting the 2x6s horizontally over these sections rather than vertically but neither seems like a Good option . Thoughts?

Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #14 on: October 25, 2018, 04:00:13 PM »
Can you provide more pictures?  I don't see anything in the way in the picture shown.  Maybe it's because I'm on my phone.

Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #15 on: October 25, 2018, 04:02:15 PM »
You don't need blocking between the joists (perpendicular) only parallel with the existing joists like at the bottom of the picture provided.

Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #16 on: October 25, 2018, 06:38:08 PM »
Adam do I not need to have anything where those vents are? my concern is the new sub floor won't have anything to sit on in that corner.

the two vents are in the way of me putting a 2x6 to support the subfloor in that corner.... can I use a smaller piece, like a 2x2, in this corner to go overtop of these vents?

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2018, 01:07:20 PM »
Best practice for repairing a subfloor, such as a patch (this is just a big patch) is to have it supported on all sides and attached to the original floor.  You don’t want this piece to deflect different than the other subfloor piece because of issues with the finished floor.

However, this being one room, finished floors will not be consistent (most likely a threshold between bathroom door and hallway), I wouldn’t worry about attaching it to the other subfloor. 

If you want a nailing surface over the vents, perpendicular to the floor joists, run a 2x4 on the flat and toenail it in. Good enough. And if you want to overboard, run some construction adhesive on it and slip it halfway under the old subfloor, so that half sits under that and half under the new.


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Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2018, 02:52:14 PM »
Just do your best to fit something in there.  If it is not an area that will be stepped on you won't have a problem.  If 2x2 is all you can fit then that is all you can fit.  Run the full 2x6 as far as you can.  You can also do as papa bear said and run a 2x6 "on the flat" between the joists above the vent, if it fits.

Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2018, 03:02:23 PM »
I just want to reiterate, you do not need to cut a bunch of 14 inch (or so) blocks for between the joists.  I'm not seeing how that vent is in your way.  I mean, you can do it if you want but it is not required.  You should only need two long 2x6's to complete the floor framing.

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2018, 03:09:15 PM »
And what’s with the metal ductwork to nowhere and the duct tape?


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Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #21 on: October 29, 2018, 04:07:27 PM »
Iíve cut and begin screwing in the new ďjoistsĒ for the subfloor: Iím putting a level from these to the new ones and finding itís really difficult to get it precisely level: does this matter? I figure itís not super important so long as Iím pretty close, since Iím putting plywood and cement board for tile overtop.

Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #22 on: October 29, 2018, 08:32:45 PM »
You do not need to do what you are doing.  Only need two long 2 x 6s parallel to the existing joists at two ends of the room.  No blocking between the joists is needed. 

Think of keeping the floor flat, not necessarily level.  Tops of the joists should be flush.  Run a level or straight edge perpendicular across the next 3 joists and run the top of the new joists to the bottom of that level or straight edge.  Once again It doesn't matter if it's"level.". Just needs to be flat.  You are at the mercy of the previous builder's floor framing which may or may not be level.

Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #23 on: October 30, 2018, 10:08:28 AM »
Adam I've watched several videos of subfloor repairs and they've all included 2xsomething's to make a box for the subfloor to be supported on all sides -the subfloor and tiles won't be affected if I don't have these 14"ish 2x6's between joists around the perimeter? Are these guys just doing the little pieces for replaced subfloor?

Papa bear

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2018, 08:03:08 AM »
It’s not that it’s wrong, it’s just extra work that doesn’t really do much. Think about this - from your picture - the old subfloor isn’t supported on all sides from the other room. You already tore that out.

If we’re splitting hairs here on this install, like I said earlier, you would be better off turning the 2x’s on the flat, and sliding 1/2 under the existing subfloor, glued to the bottom of the old subfloor, toenailed into the floor joists, and then using the other 1/2 as the nailer for your new subfloor. This ties old and new back in together. And if you see on your 2x2, it’s split pretty bad.  That’s not going to hold anything at all.

I’m the grand scheme of things, just get that new subfloor down, glued and screwed into place.  You don’t really need to mess with all the blocking. But you do you.

Fix that ductwork too. Don’t use duct tape. Use UL181 foil tape.  Duct tape is NOT for ductwork. 


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Adam Zapple

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #25 on: November 01, 2018, 09:14:52 AM »
Go ahead and do it if you want.  On the flat as papa bear has suggested will make your life easier.  I'm just saying in 10 years of construction I've never seen it done.  You're not hurting anything and it is obviously going to make it a stronger floor...I just wouldn't spend too much mental or physical energy worrying about any one particular block since most builders would likely skip this step.

Healthie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #26 on: November 01, 2018, 11:25:13 AM »
Okay, thanks for the advice - I was telling friends the good news I heard that there were steps I thought I had to take, but turns out I don't ;).

My questions:
1. for cutting the subfloor, should I remove the toilet flange first to get the subfloor close to the pipe, and how much area should I leave free where the bathtub pipes are?

2. because my floor won't be 100% flat, do I need to use self-levelling cement prior to applying my cement backerboard for the tile?

3. I have new taps and shower head for my shower and my sink was leaking; at what point in the renovation should I get a plumber in to change the leaky pipes and redo my pipes in the shower to accommodate the new fixtures?

4. Ideally I'll have a plumber in just once to swap my pipes out; my plumber friend said I could cut the copper tub drain pipe and install a 1.5 inch copper to 1.5 inch ABS converter - is this easy to do and would this allow me to install the subfloor, then call the plumber to change my leaking sink pipes and install the new overflow + tub drain + shower taps and head?

5. can I cut the existing toilet flange with a hacksaw, install my subfloor with the 4" hole for the pipe, then buy and install the new toilet flange  (glue + screw) through the subfloor?
« Last Edit: November 01, 2018, 05:25:48 PM by Healthie »

J Boogie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2018, 10:54:43 AM »
Okay, thanks for the advice - I was telling friends the good news I heard that there were steps I thought I had to take, but turns out I don't ;).

My questions:


2. because my floor won't be 100% flat, do I need to use self-levelling cement prior to applying my cement backerboard for the tile?


I don't think so. It might make your tiling job easier if you are using really large tiles though. Speaking of large tiles, I wouldn't use cement board. I'd use Ditra.  Ditra is a waterproof decoupling membrane that, if installed properly, will independently absorb any movement (buildings tend to settle, expand & contract with atmospheric changes, etc) and keep your tiles from cracking. Even if your tiles aren't that big I'd still consider it.


J Boogie

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Re: Bathroom renovation questions: fan, glass blocks, subfloor questions
« Reply #28 on: November 05, 2018, 11:03:35 AM »


3. I have new taps and shower head for my shower and my sink was leaking; at what point in the renovation should I get a plumber in to change the leaky pipes and redo my pipes in the shower to accommodate the new fixtures?

Once you have a nice clean gutted bathroom with all your framing members squared away how you want them, and your new subfloor installed (by snugging up two pieces with a semicircle cut out of each side to accommodate your toilet drain as I mentioned in a previous thread), should be a good time to get a plumber in.

Your plumber will drill through your framing members to run any new lines, so as long as you've got the framing right you should be good to go. By this I mean plumb, flat (in plane and square to the floor and the ceiling and each other when in corners) wall studs with adequate spacing to meet your wallboard MFGs recommendations. And make sure any blocking you are planning on installing that will be near your plumbing is also done.