Starting DIY

[Brit71]

I avoid DIY, but I'm realising that even a small increase in DIY would not only save money but also help make the lack of a full time job less worrying.

Do you recognise that in your former self?

I'd like to know what jobs you started to take on (home, car or garden) and what you graduated to, what resources you used, what mindset hacks and habits you formed and what lessons you learned.

I suspect I'm not the only person who has avoided DIY for a ridiculously long time who would benefit from that advice.

[Greystache]

I used to justify taking my car to a repair shop on the grounds that I was making six figures and my free time was too valuable to be spent replacing brake pads or whatever. Now I don't have that excuse and I find that I actually get a little satisfaction from learning a new skill and saving a little money.  You can find a Youtube video for virtually any job you can imagine.  There are still some jobs I choose not to do even though I know how. Oil change is one. By the time I buy oil and a filter, I am only saving about $5.00 from the price at the local oil change place. It simply is not worth the extra shopping trip and a trip to the oil recycling place.
Other things, like building furniture or brewing beer, I do just for the creative outlet. I doubt I am saving any money, but I enjoy the process.

[Uturn]

The hardest part is getting out of your own head.  "But I don't know how to do this."  Well, neither did anyone else before they learned.  Just start small.  Don't single handed replace the water heater as your first plumbing project.  Start with the leaky faucet in the second bathroom. 

Skills transfer. If you know what a cross threaded machine nut feels like, then you already know what a cross threaded plastic plumbing nut feels like.  BTW, unfortunately, there is only one way to learn what a cross threaded nut feels like.  And through this leaning process, you will mess up threads and have to go back to the hardware store, and it is frustrating. But it is part of the leaning process, we have all done it.

Speaking of the hardware store, if possible, take the old part with you to match it up.  I also find the folks at Ace Hardware to be more knowledgeable than the big box stores.

Be curious.  Open the toilet tank and figure out how it works before it breaks.  Look under the sink and know how the water gets to and from it.  Why is that pipe all bent into a P shape?

Find out where the whole house water shutoff is and how to use it.  Do this today before you have a plumbing problem that requires it.

Dead lawnmowers are free.  Drag one home, take it apart and put it back together.  You don't need to dismantle the engine yet, but do the rest.  This will get you familiar with using tools and figuring out how things work.  Then you can see if you can fix it.  You still have not spent any money yet, but are learning.  If you really want to get advanced, buy an engine rebuild kit for it and give that a go. 

Want to learn electricity?  Get some sockets, switches, and romex.  Wire up some circuits.  Don't power them yet.  Just get familiar with cutting and stripping wire and how the connections are made.  Then once you are comfortable with that, mount them to a piece of wood and power them up.

Any money spent on these projects, call it tuition money.

[WSUCoug1994]

Youtube is simply amazing.  You can almost always find your exact car or your washing machine model and some super human will tell you the tools you need, the part numbers and a step by step on how to do literally anything.

I am a serious mechanic and homebuilder and I will tell you that I go there first for every single project I have. 

I learned the fundamentals from my father - who was DIY all the way - but he shared a mentality with me that I carry to this day.  It is ok to try and fix it yourself - in most cases you aren't going to make it much worse if you fail and you need to pay someone to fix it.

I am pretty comfortable taking on anything at this point but I have learned a lot from trial and error.  One piece of advice is buy/rent the right tools for the job.  A lot of people try to work around NOT having the right tools and it RARELY works out for the best.

[NorCal]

A philosophy I use for DIY (and for career progression or any other skill) is to take something you already know how to do, and be comfortable adding one new layer of complexity on it.  Learning is hard if you’re getting 100 new things thrown at you at once.  But it’s easy if you’re adding a little bit onto something you’ve done before.

For example, I recently replaced a gas water heater with a heat-pump style. It was very intimidating at first, as it was above both my electrical and plumbing comfort zone. So I paid someone to do the wiring, and focused my energy on learning the plumbing bit.

So now I feel pretty confident with most basic plumbing tasks.  Particularly with PEX, which is real easy to work with. Next time, I might prioritize learning a bit more electrical.

If you’re just getting started with DIY, find some easy projects you feel you could handle. Maybe make some garage shelves with plywood and 2x4’s. Projects like that teach a lot of skills with measuring, cutting, joining, etc. Then you have a basis for using those skills in more refined ways on different projects.

[lthenderson]

I got started in DIY with YouTube. If there is a video for it and I have the required tools, I will try anything. The alternative if I try and fail is paying someone else to do it and so I'm no worse off for having tried. As the decades have gone by, YouTube has simply gotten more DIY videos than one person can ever watch making it even easier to try.

With time, you will develop confidence and skills that allow you to step away from YouTube and just do without guidance. My woodworking is a great example of that. In the beginning, I used other plans and watched videos of others making the exact same thing I was making. These days, if I see something that I triggers a desire, I sit down at my computer and draft out my own design and plans and then go out into the garage and build it. I haven't bought any furniture in many years and the furniture I have built in that time frame will outlast the lives of my children.

[katsiki]

Not much to add except encouragement!

I am not handy at all BUT I did some maintenance on my riding lawnmower a few years back.  I used to call the repair guy who comes to your house to get it going again after sitting. 

I found the same model on youtube and a guy detailing how to do standard maintenance items (everything I needed!)  I ordered the parts (most from home depot as I recall) and maybe 1 special tool.

I was able to do everything but it still wouldn't run.  Turns out that the carburetor needed to be replaced also.  Saved a couple hundred bucks and learned that most of this isn't that difficult.

So... GO FOR IT!  Try it on something low-risk and see how you do.

[Sibley]

Youtube is awesome. Well, the videos are awesome, the company kinda sucks. And no one need ever know exactly how many videos you watched, or how many times you watched them.

There are limits on your abilities. Two biggies of mine are heights and strength. I do not do well on ladders, so am limited on how far up I can get and be effective. I am also not physically strong enough to do various things. My knowledge often exceeds my actual practical ability, and I'm not a genius by any means.

Start small, grow from there. You'll figure out what your actual limitations are at some point, at which point you get help or hire it out. In the meantime, keep researching, try things, and be careful not to hurt yourself.

[BudgetSlasher]

Start small and simple (simple does not always mean the same thing as easy).

Pick a small project around the house, maybe in electrical it is replacing an outlet, or in the garage it is changing the oil/spark plugs in the lawn mower, or in the bathroom it is fixing the dripping faucet.

Research, this is the most important step. YouTube is wonderful, for simple projects you will find all you need quickly. For more complex projects you will need to develop the ability to issue spot and research those issues as discrete parts of the project.

Form a plan based on your research, buy the parts needed, carry out your plan.

Now you have a skill base to build upon. Next time you can pick a project that uses the skills (and tools you bought) to go a step further, add another skill, and maybe some more tools.

The more complex/involved a project is the more likely things will not go as planned or assumptions you made will turn out to be incorrect. Accept that you will have to replan.

On the same track plan for things to go wrong, take longer than expected, or the project to increase in scope. If you can help it do not upgrade the furnace in the winter, do not take the bathroom offline at 8PM, don't start a window replacement if weather is in the forecast, you get the idea.

Continuing, mistakes or things not going to plan can cost money, sometimes more than you save by hiring it out.

Finally, know why you are DIY'ing and when projects do not align with that reason. For examples if you are doing it to save money there are some project that is cheaper to hire out (some rebates require contractors and some specialty tools are expensive) if you are doing it because you enjoy it understand what you won't enjoy (I am not getting on a 12:12 pitch roof 3 stories off the ground).

[deborah]

My father taught my brothers how to hammer and saw, but I was a girl, so I wasn’t taught anything.

Then I bought a house that needed a lot doing to it. I started with things I thought I could do. Removing all the excess screws, fixing door handles… small jobs that didn’t take long and didn’t need much equipment. I gradually got to do more and more as I got more confident. The thing was that the house was so bad that anything I did wasn’t going to muck it up and make it worse.

On the other hand, vegetable gardening was something we all did when I was growing up, so making a vegetable patch, starting to preserve, and making jams, pickles and sauces just needed the equipment.

Start small with minimal equipment and quick and easy jobs before you branch out.

[Brit71]

If like to thank everyone who's put ideas up here. I will start small and the  self build  will have to wait!

Are there any threads, other websites, forums, YouTube channels, etc that can help me learn and get confidence?

[BikeFanatic]

on youtube seejanedrill

[shureShote]

One thing that has helped me is to take on some projects that barely matter, and if you destroy things, no big deal. I love the idea of grabbing a free lawnmower mentioned above. That’s brilliant, what a great learning project. An old bicycle would be similar.

[lthenderson]

Are there any threads, other websites, forums, YouTube channels, etc that can help me learn and get confidence?

Probably in the order of millions. Go to YouTube or Google, type in a specific skill you want to learn and you will I'm sure find dozens of channels and sites giving out information on it in a variety of different formats. I have found the channels  I most enjoy now are not the same as when I was more unskilled woodworker. The channels I first watched shows lots of specific skills while the channels I watch now gloss over all the basic skills and concentrate on the concept or expanding boundaries. I would never recommend one of those to a novice. Finding the best channel or website for you and your particular desires is going to be a skill only you can do and refine with time.

[Glenstache]

One thing that has helped me is to take on some projects that barely matter, and if you destroy things, no big deal. I love the idea of grabbing a free lawnmower mentioned above. That’s brilliant, what a great learning project. An old bicycle would be similar.

This is good. I also add that it is worth looking at, and being comfortable with, the "worst case" if you get something wrong on a DIY. Mistakes will happen. Learning how to fix things as you go is part of what separates the pros from the newbies (and fewer mistakes and hacks here and there for efficiency). Changing your own oil is a great place to start (a fumoto valve makes this super easy on subsequent changes).

I'd also recommend a book on topics that you are interested in. YouTube can be good for specific "I need to see it" type things, but books offer a holistic view of the process, which is valuable. Haynes (or equivalent) manuals are great for car stuff. A lot of the bix box stores have book series on DIY homeowner stuff. Things like changing electrical outlets and switches are very easy once you know a few fundamentals about how to do it safely (hint; turn off the breaker).

DIY is a long game and the skills will start small and build upon each other over years. It is very satisfying and can save a lot of money. The only caution is to be aware of doing shoddy work on your house in visible areas. If you go to sell your house and there are a bunch of manky half-assed fixes everywhere, it will show up in walk throughs. If you get something wrong, be willing to tear it out and do-over. Or, be willing to write it off as a learning experience if it ends up going badly and bring in the pro if needed.

[Syonyk]

One thing that has helped me is to take on some projects that barely matter, and if you destroy things, no big deal.

This is a great way to start, and has served me exceedingly well over the years.

If it's already broken to the point of not working, there are really only two possible outcomes:

(1) You've successfully fixed it, learned something in the process, and have a working thing for far less than replacing it.

(2) It's still broken, though no less functional than before, even if you've rather damaged it a good bit in the process.  But you've learned something, and, ideally many things, in the process of trying to fix it.

That's about it.  If you're going to replace it, there is no downside to trying to fix it.  I've done some sketchy repairs on stuff like this when other attempts to repair things have gone wrong (IDE cables are good for very fine wire to bridge traces you've damaged on circuit boards...), and I either fix it, or learn a lot in the process.

[FLBiker]

Thanks for this thread.  I've done a bit of DIY, but I came into homeownership with no experience.  Youtube has been great (particularly for appliance repairs) and I took a course at a local community college for home owners where we did things like patching drywall, replacing outlets and rebuilding toilets.  And then I just learned by doing -- I helped my FIL with some things on our house.  It was kind of a nightmare (he thrives on chaos and cobbling together tools) but I learned some stuff.  There are certain things I'm pretty comfortable with (like basic electrical and appliance repair) but I find I really struggle with more open-ended things.  For example, we have a loft space over the garage that I'd kind of like to finish, but I have no idea where to start.

I also really like the idea of trying to fix something broken that doesn't matter (like a broken lawnmower).  I've always avoided gas engines (I have an electric lawnmower) but now that we're in snow country I'm toying with the idea of getting a snow blower.  Thanks for the inspiration!

[pipfan33]

The only thing that has kept me from most DIYs in the past is time and patience (as well as patience from a spouse who might have preferred to hire it out to get it done quicker). 

I always sort of believed if I had enough time and the right tools, could probably figure out whatever it is.  Over the years, as kids came along and time became more scarce, started hiring out stuff I would have rather done to save time or money.  Examples like swapping out an old dishwasher, or running a new electrical line we'd pay for someone to come do because we didn't have time.  We started out with simple home repairs like patching plaster or drywall in our very old house.  If we screwed up too bad, we'd be the only ones to care.

I have time again so last week I was cleaning out the garage and came across a new toilet seat.  It had been there a couple of years, just didn't take the time to do it.  YouTube and 3 different attempts to remove the old rusted/corroded bolts, a little elbow grease, and a few scratches later - job done :-).

Whenever I don't have the ideal tool to do a DIY, I always think about how much easier it is for the pros - mostly because they have the right tools.  Borrowing or buying the right tool and you'll save a ton of headaches is another thing we've learned over the years.  Usually a lot cheaper to spend a little time with the right tool and learn a new skill than to hire help.

That said, some things I don't have the energy for and still call experts/skilled labor.

[Brit71]

So this week I've done the following:

1.  Changed the fuse on a lamp that's been out for a while.  Well didn't change it as I didn't have a fuse, but I did open the plug and find out I don't have that fuse.  Will have to buy a fuse.
2.  Started on the car by doing the weekly check from the Haynes manual.  Except that I found out that I didn't have a Haynes manual (shows how often I looked at it) and the Saab manual didn't have anything like the weekly checks.  I figured that a Haynes manual would be a good investment so I'll do that.
3.  Replaced the front light.  Wait, no, I contacted an electrician who was recommended to me.  I'd be happy when I can consider doing that myself.  (Failed even on this as he asked if I had a replacement light, I don't)

Well you learn from your mistakes and it's a good idea to just keep going.

[getsorted]

I'd like to know what jobs you started to take on (home, car or garden) and what you graduated to, what resources you used, what mindset hacks and habits you formed and what lessons you learned.

I bought a whole house, so I am learning all kinds of new skills! Haha. But I've also been doing a lot of my own car maintenance for a long time. And I have been repairing small appliances since I was a kid.

Resources: YouTube is an incredible resource, AND- a surprising number of creators will actually reply if you ask questions! With repairs, I can often find a video doing the EXACT thing I want to do on my EXACT MODEL, or pretty close. (i.e., "replace window in 2021 Chevy Aveo," "replace trunk latch on 1996 Honda Civic" etc.

Mindset: If something is broke, and you fail to fix it, and you call for repair? You're no worse off than when you started, and you're better-educated. I have twice had to call in a friend or an actual plumber because things got hairier than I expected. It worked out okay.

-Asking for help: I might be at an advantage here because I'm a woman. But I have found that if I stand in a Home Depot looking confused for long enough, either an employee or a random dad will  find me and help me figure out what I need, and usually also give me practical advice!

-Waiting a long time. Sometimes, you just need to sit on a project for a long time, watching a lot of videos, reading a lot of books, until your bravery or frustration finally get the best of you and you dig in.

[Syonyk]

Resources: YouTube is an incredible resource, AND- a surprising number of creators will actually reply if you ask questions! With repairs, I can often find a video doing the EXACT thing I want to do on my EXACT MODEL, or pretty close. (i.e., "replace window in 2021 Chevy Aveo," "replace trunk latch on 1996 Honda Civic" etc.

It's decent, though mostly (at least to me) quite maddening.  "A handheld cell phone camera, lit by a jar of half dead lightning bugs, with half your life story in the video" type stuff just... bugs me.

Mindset: If something is broke, and you fail to fix it, and you call for repair? You're no worse off than when you started, and you're better-educated. I have twice had to call in a friend or an actual plumber because things got hairier than I expected. It worked out okay.

Absolutely.  And even if you have to pay a bit of a "... you made this worse, ugh, now I have to undo your attempts..." fee on occasion, you still come out far ahead in total.  You'll see the "Labor, $50/hr, labor if you tried to fix it yourself first, $70/hr, labor if you want to stand and tell me how to do the job you failed and brought to me, $100/hr" signs on shop walls as a not-quite-joke, but most people are pretty reasonable about it.  Just get out of the way and let them fix it, and if you're watching, watch quietly.

But it's amazing how many things I've been able to fix over the years from that mindset - "It's broken.  I can't make it worse than broken and not working.  So, where are my screwdrivers?"

What's even better is living somewhere with a culture of people who do this - so if I'm a bit over my head, I know a couple people I can call (or just BS with about the job before I start).  And I'm able to be a resource for a lot of people too, either in tools or experience.  I've done a lot of automotive work over the years, and while I'm less useful on modern stuff, I don't know that many people who drive terribly modern cars either...

-Waiting a long time. Sometimes, you just need to sit on a project for a long time, watching a lot of videos, reading a lot of books, until your bravery or frustration finally get the best of you and you dig in.

I'm... not going to discuss how many projects I've spun doing this on, trying to figure out the best and most efficient way to do X.  The reality is that in most cases, I end up spending more time (by "add an order of magnitude") trying to learn how to optimize X than I do just doing it the inefficient way.  And often enough, by the end of the project, I've got my ideas for how to do it faster.  On a good day, I even figure them out halfway through!

But I just accept that by the end of a project, I'll know how to do it far better the second time.  Ideally, those skills can be used somewhere, but if they're not, oh well.

... but 35 or so joists into a 55 joist deck, I am getting faster at them!

[lutorm]

The thing about hiring stuff out is ... most of the time it doesn't end up being less work. You have to find someone reputable, ideally if you're mustachian you need a couple quotes to know you're not getting shafted, then those people need to get around to doing it, and then my experience is that they do shitty work and you end up fiddling with it anyway thinking that if I had done that myself it would have gotten done well, for less time, and for more gained experience.

The last thing we had someone do was to bring our practically new car to the dealer for a recall. Then I realize they didn't actually put the carpeting back correctly, they left stains on the seats, and they broke a cover. At least we didn't have to pay them...

[Glenstache]

The thing about hiring stuff out is ... most of the time it doesn't end up being less work. You have to find someone reputable, ideally if you're mustachian you need a couple quotes to know you're not getting shafted, then those people need to get around to doing it, and then my experience is that they do shitty work and you end up fiddling with it anyway thinking that if I had done that myself it would have gotten done well, for less time, and for more gained experience.

The last thing we had someone do was to bring our practically new car to the dealer for a recall. Then I realize they didn't actually put the carpeting back correctly, they left stains on the seats, and they broke a cover. At least we didn't have to pay them...

On contractors, the lowest price is not always the best deal. I say this as someone with a brother who is not the cheapest, but does what he says, when he says, and does it right. But yes, if you can DIY, it is worth it and less work. This is particularly true for things like oil changes. I can do one in about 20 min, less time than it takes to even drive to/from any nearby places. And it is less expensive.

[nereo]

The thing about hiring stuff out is ... most of the time it doesn't end up being less work. You have to find someone reputable, ideally if you're mustachian you need a couple quotes to know you're not getting shafted, then those people need to get around to doing it, and then my experience is that they do shitty work and you end up fiddling with it anyway thinking that if I had done that myself it would have gotten done well, for less time, and for more gained experience.

The last thing we had someone do was to bring our practically new car to the dealer for a recall. Then I realize they didn't actually put the carpeting back correctly, they left stains on the seats, and they broke a cover. At least we didn't have to pay them...

On contractors, the lowest price is not always the best deal. I say this as someone with a brother who is not the cheapest, but does what he says, when he says, and does it right. But yes, if you can DIY, it is worth it and less work. This is particularly true for things like oil changes. I can do one in about 20 min, less time than it takes to even drive to/from any nearby places. And it is less expensive.

An interesting corollary to this (at least IME) is that the highest price is often from someone who doesn’t really want the job and won’t do very good work because they just don’t care. In general I avoid the rock-bottom quotes as well as the sky high ones

[lthenderson]

The thing about hiring stuff out is ... most of the time it doesn't end up being less work. You have to find someone reputable, ideally if you're mustachian you need a couple quotes to know you're not getting shafted, then those people need to get around to doing it, and then my experience is that they do shitty work and you end up fiddling with it anyway thinking that if I had done that myself it would have gotten done well, for less time, and for more gained experience.

The last thing we had someone do was to bring our practically new car to the dealer for a recall. Then I realize they didn't actually put the carpeting back correctly, they left stains on the seats, and they broke a cover. At least we didn't have to pay them...

On contractors, the lowest price is not always the best deal. I say this as someone with a brother who is not the cheapest, but does what he says, when he says, and does it right. But yes, if you can DIY, it is worth it and less work. This is particularly true for things like oil changes. I can do one in about 20 min, less time than it takes to even drive to/from any nearby places. And it is less expensive.

An interesting corollary to this (at least IME) is that the highest price is often from someone who doesn’t really want the job and won’t do very good work because they just don’t care. In general I avoid the rock-bottom quotes as well as the sky high ones

As a corollary to your corollary, I usually go with the person who has done great work for me in the past, no matter what they charge. Only if the relationship soured or I suspect I'm being taken for a ride would I ever get other quotes. I've had the same concrete, plumbing, electrical and HVAC people for the last decade who can always tackle those problems I can't or simply don't want too.

[getsorted]

On contractors, the lowest price is not always the best deal. I say this as someone with a brother who is not the cheapest, but does what he says, when he says, and does it right. But yes, if you can DIY, it is worth it and less work. This is particularly true for things like oil changes. I can do one in about 20 min, less time than it takes to even drive to/from any nearby places. And it is less expensive.

This is so true and kind of a relief to hear from someone on here! I've gone with a higher quote before if the person giving me the low quote seemed unprofessional or sketchy, and I've always felt glad I did. There are some things you want done absolutely right. But also, you want to be working with someone who is willing to explain what they're doing and interact with you respectfully.

[lutorm]

The thing about hiring stuff out is ... most of the time it doesn't end up being less work. You have to find someone reputable, ideally if you're mustachian you need a couple quotes to know you're not getting shafted, then those people need to get around to doing it, and then my experience is that they do shitty work and you end up fiddling with it anyway thinking that if I had done that myself it would have gotten done well, for less time, and for more gained experience.

The last thing we had someone do was to bring our practically new car to the dealer for a recall. Then I realize they didn't actually put the carpeting back correctly, they left stains on the seats, and they broke a cover. At least we didn't have to pay them...

On contractors, the lowest price is not always the best deal. I say this as someone with a brother who is not the cheapest, but does what he says, when he says, and does it right. But yes, if you can DIY, it is worth it and less work. This is particularly true for things like oil changes. I can do one in about 20 min, less time than it takes to even drive to/from any nearby places. And it is less expensive.

An interesting corollary to this (at least IME) is that the highest price is often from someone who doesn’t really want the job and won’t do very good work because they just don’t care. In general I avoid the rock-bottom quotes as well as the sky high ones

As a corollary to your corollary, I usually go with the person who has done great work for me in the past, no matter what they charge. Only if the relationship soured or I suspect I'm being taken for a ride would I ever get other quotes. I've had the same concrete, plumbing, electrical and HVAC people for the last decade who can always tackle those problems I can't or simply don't want too.

Absolutely. But how do you get started? Depending on how many false starts you have to go through until you find the reliable people, it might never pay off...

[nereo]

The thing about hiring stuff out is ... most of the time it doesn't end up being less work. You have to find someone reputable, ideally if you're mustachian you need a couple quotes to know you're not getting shafted, then those people need to get around to doing it, and then my experience is that they do shitty work and you end up fiddling with it anyway thinking that if I had done that myself it would have gotten done well, for less time, and for more gained experience.

The last thing we had someone do was to bring our practically new car to the dealer for a recall. Then I realize they didn't actually put the carpeting back correctly, they left stains on the seats, and they broke a cover. At least we didn't have to pay them...

On contractors, the lowest price is not always the best deal. I say this as someone with a brother who is not the cheapest, but does what he says, when he says, and does it right. But yes, if you can DIY, it is worth it and less work. This is particularly true for things like oil changes. I can do one in about 20 min, less time than it takes to even drive to/from any nearby places. And it is less expensive.

An interesting corollary to this (at least IME) is that the highest price is often from someone who doesn’t really want the job and won’t do very good work because they just don’t care. In general I avoid the rock-bottom quotes as well as the sky high ones

As a corollary to your corollary, I usually go with the person who has done great work for me in the past, no matter what they charge. Only if the relationship soured or I suspect I'm being taken for a ride would I ever get other quotes. I've had the same concrete, plumbing, electrical and HVAC people for the last decade who can always tackle those problems I can't or simply don't want too.

Absolutely. But how do you get started? Depending on how many false starts you have to go through until you find the reliable people, it might never pay off...

Yeah, that’s our challenge as well. Since we can do many repairs ourselves we only use contractors for jobs that 1) are way betting or skill set (increasingly rare for most things), 2) require more than ~8 labor hours (also not terribly common) or 3) are required by law/code. So for these jobs we can plan ahead for we try to bundle things together, like recently we upgraded electrical service *and* added two circuits while replacing some previous shoddy work from a previous owner. I just don’t expect I’ll need to call an electrician for several years. Hopefully any roofer I use will retire before I need him or her again (and if not, I’m unlikely to repeat as a customer).

We get referrals from trusted friends of course, but for the most part the really good ones are no longer taking new clients, and since we have no prexisting relationship they have no need to take us on over all the other new referrals they are hearing from. We havee we’d had slightly better luck name-dropping or real estate agent and architect, who tends to send them large lucrative projects.

[lthenderson]

Absolutely. But how do you get started? Depending on how many false starts you have to go through until you find the reliable people, it might never pay off...

Starting out is definitely harder but not impossible. Whenever I move to a new area, the first time around I ask my friends and neighbors in the area who "the guy" is? "The guy" is the one everyone always recommends and does great work... but is usually booked up for the rest of the year if they are even taking on new clients. Usually my first attempt is to appeal to "the guy" by saying I'm willing to pay a fair price for his work and to be extremely flexible if they want to work it in at odd times or in-between larger projects while waiting for delays, etc. This gets me in the door a surprisingly number of times but not always. If not, I usually ask for "the guy's" referral of someone like him who does good work and may have time to take up the project. Hopefully this avenue pans out but I've been stumped a few times, either not figuring out who "the guy" is to start with because nobody I know has had that sort of work done before or "the guy" is just too busy to work my project in despite my flexibility and doesn't know of someone to recommend. In those few cases, I just cold call and keep notes as to whether I will call them the next time they are needed or now.

The big caveat to all this is I rarely discuss money/cost up front. I know going in that "the guy" is probably not going to be the cheapest person but that they do excellent work for a fair price. I know you are supposed to get quotes but I find that since "the guy" typically has more business than he can handle, he is likely not going to take time out of his business to spend hours giving me the tightest margin quote possible to win a bidding situation. Generally I never bring up cost as all until "the guy" has agreed to take on the project and they at that point give me an estimate of what it will cost. I suppose if I felt I was getting taken for a ride, I might get another quote, while waiting for "the guy" to start my project just to verify everything, but I have never done that thus far. Too many others go into a meeting trying to get a handyman trying to squeeze every nickel out of the project they can and as someone who has done work for others, I usually try to avoid these sorts of people because they rarely seem happy with anything about the project. I do the best work I can and if they don't like it, I let them know they are free to look elsewhere the next time.