Author Topic: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation  (Read 22763 times)

BlueHouse

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Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« on: December 27, 2016, 07:40:20 AM »
A few weeks ago I installed Elfa Shelving (from the container store) in my garage.  The system works by attaching a support track at the top of the wall, then hanging everything off that track.  Problem is, I don't think the track is attached firmly enough.  I really don't want to remove the entire thing and redo, and even if I were to do that, I still couldn't line up the pre-drilled track holes with studs.  So I feel like the easiest and most painless way to add some support to this is to drill two or three more holes through the metal track (where there ARE studs) and then put a wood nail through the track and directly into a stud. 

How hard is it to drill through this track?  Will I need any special drill bits?  Is there a better way method that I haven't considered?  Or should I just take it all down start completely over again?  I still don't think I can hit a stud with more than one hole. 

http://www.containerstore.com/s/elfa/components/elfa-easy-hang/platinum-elfa-easy-hang-top-tracks/123d?productId=10006047


J_Stache

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #1 on: December 27, 2016, 07:49:33 AM »
Regular drill bits should do it.  Start with a smaller hole then jump up to the final hole size.  Also use screws, not nails. The load on the track will try to pull the screw or nail out of the wall and screws will resist this better.  Don't use drywall screws as they are not designed for this task.  Use cabinet screws (e.g. http://www.grkfasteners.com/products/cabinet/cabinet).  These are available at Lowes.  Home Depot sells Spax brand.  Your local lumber yard will also have something that will work.

BlueHouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #2 on: December 28, 2016, 05:36:32 PM »
Thanks for the response J Stache.  I used a nail to make a dimple in the steel (at least I could see where I struck the nail...not sure if there was actually a dimple or not), then used a drill.  Nothing.  nada.  Not the slightest impression.  Any other thoughts? 

J_Stache

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #3 on: December 28, 2016, 06:35:19 PM »
Steel must be stronger than I thought.  Get a bit specifically for steel.  RIDGID Coldfire bits from Home Depot will definitely work (I've used them for steel beams). 

aerofreaky`

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2016, 11:14:28 AM »
When drilling if in place, make sure your metal bit doesn't hit drywall or you'll have a piece of scrap metal.

BlueHouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2016, 12:53:19 PM »
When drilling if in place, make sure your metal bit doesn't hit drywall or you'll have a piece of scrap metal.

huh?  really? There's drywall right behind the metal track.  What will be scrap metal?  the drill bit or the track? 

I am the WORST at DIY.  Every time I try to save money by doing something myself, it turns into a major project, twice as expensive as just paying someone else to do it right.  How can I be so bad at this stuff?

aerofreaky`

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2016, 01:45:10 PM »
Use electric tape to mark the depth of the shelf on the bit so you only go that deep. If your metal/wood/plastic bit hits the drywall,it's toast! (Buy a few extra too)

BlueHouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2016, 05:02:47 PM »
Use electric tape to mark the depth of the shelf on the bit so you only go that deep. If your metal/wood/plastic bit hits the drywall,it's toast! (Buy a few extra too)
Good to know.  I'll update in a few days when I make some progress.  Thank you!

geekette

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2016, 05:16:57 PM »
It looks like the pre-drilled holes are 8" apart, making it good for studs that are 16" on center.  I take it yours aren't?

What did you use originally to hang the track?  It seems that toggle bolts every 8" should be strong enough for most applications.  Or those "twist-n-lock" drywall anchors. 

BlueHouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2016, 05:47:42 PM »
It looks like the pre-drilled holes are 8" apart, making it good for studs that are 16" on center.  I take it yours aren't?

What did you use originally to hang the track?  It seems that toggle bolts every 8" should be strong enough for most applications.  Or those "twist-n-lock" drywall anchors.

My studs are (mostly) 16" apart, but the track was cut to fit the wall exactly... without regard to where the studs were.  So the track holes don't line up with the studs.  so NONE of the pre-drilled holes hit a stud.  Elfa says that it doesn't matter and that its anchors are strong enough to hold, but I think the track looks like it's pulling away from the wall.  And I won't fill the wall because of how worried I am about the whole thing falling. 

aerofreaky`

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2016, 09:48:31 AM »
Make sure you're using metal/wood bits for the actual metal drilling. Don't confuse them with the masonry/drywall ones. You should be able to cut through these like they are butter with good bits. Go moderately slow and use reasonable pressure.  Perhaps some DeWalt or Milwaukee bits.

Snow White

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #11 on: December 31, 2016, 09:59:49 PM »
I have Elfa in every closet and have had it in several other houses I've owned too.  It is safe to say that I love Elfa! I wonder if your installation is fine as it is. It feels and sounds very loose when you hang the vertical rails that the brackets fit into. I was scared to death and sure the whole thing would fall apart when I did my first one.  It might be worth installing three or four shelves and seeing how stable it feels after you've placed a few items on them.

I've never had an Elfa system fail and I've had/have a lot of weight on them.  That said, your top horizontal railing needs to be flush against the ceiling to catch the stud. If you think that didn't happen then I'd bite the bullet and start over.  Good luck!

Metric Mouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #12 on: January 01, 2017, 06:12:10 AM »
I have trouble believing that this material can't be drilled through. Start with a small bit. Since you dimpled it with a nail (good work!) the bit shouldn't be skating around - it might just take some pressure. You may need a new (sharp) bit if you are using a cheap set that came with a budget drill.

How did you cut the track? If it can be cut with home power/hand tools, it can certainly be drilled through with home power tools.

BlueHouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #13 on: January 01, 2017, 10:50:41 AM »
Update: 

I took the whole thing down and started again.  The reason I thought I couldn't catch any studs is because the portion of the wall that I tried to do FIRST doesn't have 16" center studs.  I went crazy trying to figure out what was going on because my stud finder kept registering some crazy stuff.   A little youtube taught me how to calibrate my electronic stud finder, but it still came up with a lot of HVAC and electrical hits that I am almost positive don't exist.  I finally resorted to a single pre-drywall photo that happened to catch part of the wall in question in the background.  That's how I figured out that in one area of the wall, they did two studs next to each other, then the rest of the length of the wall is just seemingly however they wanted to do it.  6 inches, then 17.5 inches. 
So of the two sections, one I am confident with now that it has 4 of 7 holes catching studs. 
The second (smaller) section has 4 holes and only the first one caught a stud. 

The reason I lack confidence with the drywall anchors that Elfa supplies is because they are supposed to catch the back end of the anchor, and then at some point the screw should become difficult to turn.  But that only happened on one of my anchors.  All of the other anchors on both sections, the screw will just turn and turn and turn and never finish tightening.  It looks fine to the eye, but get a screwdriver, and you can still turn that screw as if there is no resistance. 

Finally, I decided to just go with it and put lighter items on the section that I am worried about.  I also found two studs in that section that didn't line up with the holes in the track, and screwed some wood screws above and below the track. Trying to wedge that track up against the wall with the head of the screw.   At least that will give me some warning if the thing does pull out of the wall. 

Snow White -- The top horizontal track is a few feet below the ceiling.   Do you screw it into a horizontal joist ?  This was not even mentioned to me by Elfa. 

Spork

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2017, 05:18:11 PM »

The reason I lack confidence with the drywall anchors that Elfa supplies is because they are supposed to catch the back end of the anchor, and then at some point the screw should become difficult to turn.  But that only happened on one of my anchors.  All of the other anchors on both sections, the screw will just turn and turn and turn and never finish tightening.  It looks fine to the eye, but get a screwdriver, and you can still turn that screw as if there is no resistance. 


What sort of anchors are they?  Are they a molly bolt or a toggle bolt?  Or are they a plastic sleeve that pushes in the hole?

The reason I ask...
* Molly bolts rely on compression of the anchor.  I generally screw them down tight and compress them BEFORE I hang whatever I am hanging.  Then I pull the screw back out and use it to hang the item.
* toggle bolts require a little back pressure to get them to catch.

Either of them can just spin in place if they don't catch on tight.

BUT... putting this sort of thing into a stud is always going to be preferred to putting it in a drywall anchor.  If you can get it in a stud, you're doing better.

I'll also mention: There are a couple of kinds of stud finders.  One senses metal/magnetism and you are basically fishing for the screws/nails that hold up the drywall. The other senses density.  The second type is much more consistent on finding studs, IMO.

for reference, and because everyone seems to have different terminology:

This is what I am calling a molly bolt.


This is what I am calling a toggle bolt.

Snow White

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #15 on: January 03, 2017, 04:16:54 PM »
BlueHouse..I've placed all of my top tracks as high as I could but I would think it would work anywhere lower on the wall as long as you catch a stud.  It sounds like you've resolved your issue anyway by starting over.  The next one you install will be easy-Peasy after this. 😉.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #16 on: January 04, 2017, 07:59:02 AM »
Update: 

I took the whole thing down and started again.  The reason I thought I couldn't catch any studs is because the portion of the wall that I tried to do FIRST doesn't have 16" center studs.  I went crazy trying to figure out what was going on because my stud finder kept registering some crazy stuff.   A little youtube taught me how to calibrate my electronic stud finder, but it still came up with a lot of HVAC and electrical hits that I am almost positive don't exist.  I finally resorted to a single pre-drywall photo that happened to catch part of the wall in question in the background.  That's how I figured out that in one area of the wall, they did two studs next to each other, then the rest of the length of the wall is just seemingly however they wanted to do it.  6 inches, then 17.5 inches. 
So of the two sections, one I am confident with now that it has 4 of 7 holes catching studs. 
The second (smaller) section has 4 holes and only the first one caught a stud. 

The reason I lack confidence with the drywall anchors that Elfa supplies is because they are supposed to catch the back end of the anchor, and then at some point the screw should become difficult to turn.  But that only happened on one of my anchors.  All of the other anchors on both sections, the screw will just turn and turn and turn and never finish tightening.  It looks fine to the eye, but get a screwdriver, and you can still turn that screw as if there is no resistance. 

Finally, I decided to just go with it and put lighter items on the section that I am worried about.  I also found two studs in that section that didn't line up with the holes in the track, and screwed some wood screws above and below the track. Trying to wedge that track up against the wall with the head of the screw.   At least that will give me some warning if the thing does pull out of the wall. 

Snow White -- The top horizontal track is a few feet below the ceiling.   Do you screw it into a horizontal joist ?  This was not even mentioned to me by Elfa.

Great work!

Metric Mouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #17 on: January 04, 2017, 08:07:10 AM »

The reason I lack confidence with the drywall anchors that Elfa supplies is because they are supposed to catch the back end of the anchor, and then at some point the screw should become difficult to turn.  But that only happened on one of my anchors.  All of the other anchors on both sections, the screw will just turn and turn and turn and never finish tightening.  It looks fine to the eye, but get a screwdriver, and you can still turn that screw as if there is no resistance. 


What sort of anchors are they?  Are they a molly bolt or a toggle bolt?  Or are they a plastic sleeve that pushes in the hole?

The reason I ask...
* Molly bolts rely on compression of the anchor.  I generally screw them down tight and compress them BEFORE I hang whatever I am hanging.  Then I pull the screw back out and use it to hang the item.
* toggle bolts require a little back pressure to get them to catch.

Either of them can just spin in place if they don't catch on tight.

BUT... putting this sort of thing into a stud is always going to be preferred to putting it in a drywall anchor.  If you can get it in a stud, you're doing better.

I'll also mention: There are a couple of kinds of stud finders.  One senses metal/magnetism and you are basically fishing for the screws/nails that hold up the drywall. The other senses density.  The second type is much more consistent on finding studs, IMO.

for reference, and because everyone seems to have different terminology:

This is what I am calling a molly bolt.


This is what I am calling a toggle bolt.


Spork: I'd guess that the anchor is more of a drywall anchor of this style:

So if it doesn't 'bite' in at the end, it will just strip itself out and turn and not 'pop' the rear expansion.

Spork

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #18 on: January 04, 2017, 08:13:01 AM »

Spork: I'd guess that the anchor is more of a drywall anchor of this style:

So if it doesn't 'bite' in at the end, it will just strip itself out and turn and not 'pop' the rear expansion.

That was my default guess... but I can't imagine that sort of anchor would hang any real amount of weight very well.

Metric Mouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #19 on: January 04, 2017, 01:54:58 PM »

Spork: I'd guess that the anchor is more of a drywall anchor of this style:

So if it doesn't 'bite' in at the end, it will just strip itself out and turn and not 'pop' the rear expansion.

That was my default guess... but I can't imagine that sort of anchor would hang any real amount of weight very well.

It blows my mind as well, but this style is rated for 50+ pounds a piece.

BlueHouse

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #20 on: January 05, 2017, 11:11:17 AM »
Can't see the pics you guys posted. Here is a link to the drywall anchors (a plastic Molly bolt)

http://www.containerstore.com/s/elfa/components/installation-hardware-tools/elfa-drywall-plaster-anchors/123d?productId=10031759



Spork

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Re: Stabilize Elfa Shelf installation
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2017, 11:22:15 AM »
Can't see the pics you guys posted. Here is a link to the drywall anchors (a plastic Molly bolt)

http://www.containerstore.com/s/elfa/components/installation-hardware-tools/elfa-drywall-plaster-anchors/123d?productId=10031759

Well those are probably not too bad.  I've not used plastic versions of mollys.  The metal versions will expand once and HOLD TIGHT where they are forever.  You can pull the screw out and you still have a nice anchor firmly in the wall.  I'm not sure how that works with plastic. 

 

Wow, a phone plan for fifteen bucks!