Author Topic: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall  (Read 1569 times)

Archipelago

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Old house, plaster and lathe. Picture attached of the plug I want to move up between the upper and lower cabinet. Then I can fasten the bottom cabinet to the wall. Will also be replacing outlet with an outlet that supports plugs and USB charging ports. Is this fairly simple?

1. How much do I have to open up the drywall to move up the plug?
2. Can I use the same junction box or should I get a new one? Do I have to worry about re-fastening it to the stud?
3. I'll have to extend the wire if the wire comes from the floor, right? But this shouldn't be too bad.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 07:27:53 PM by Archipelago »

Archipelago

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Malcat

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2021, 07:32:01 PM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

Papa bear

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2021, 07:39:57 PM »
Old house, plaster and lathe. Picture attached of the plug I want to move up between the upper and lower cabinet. Then I can fasten the bottom cabinet to the wall. Will also be replacing outlet with an outlet that supports plugs and USB charging ports. Is this fairly simple?

1. How much do I have to open up the drywall to move up the plug?
2. Can I use the same junction box or should I get a new one? Do I have to worry about re-fastening it to the stud?
3. I'll have to extend the wire if the wire comes from the floor, right? But this shouldn't be too bad.
If the wire is too short, you canít just bury a splice back in the wall. Looks like itís a cabinet below.  You could make a jbox accessible in the cabinet below and then run new wire up to your new spot. 

Being plaster and lathe, do NOT use a reciprocating saw (sawzal), but rather use an oscillating tool to carefully remove the lathe.

Purchase 2 ďold workĒ single gang boxes from the store.  Trace out where you want the box to be on the wall, and then cut out that size. Do the same in the cabinet below.  You will now have a hole underneath in the cabinet (where you take the original wire into) and a hole in the wall where the old outlet was.  Fish new wire from the new outlet box location down to the hole inside the cabinet.  Run your wires into the old work box, and then put the box in the wall. Fasten the box down, typically with the supplied screws on a tab.

Wire nut your wires in the cabinet jbox and put a cover over the box.  Go to the new outlet location, run your wire through the back of the old work box, and secure it back in like you did below.  Install your new outlet and cover.

Drywall patch your old outlet hole. 

If the wire comes from above, then itís 1/2 the steps.  No need for the box underneath.


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jpdx

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2021, 11:20:47 PM »
What Papa Bear said.

I've installed many boxes in my house with lathe and plaster. I used a drywall cutout tool to remove the plaster (set the bit to the depth of the plaster) and an oscillating saw to carefully cut the lathe. Use "old work" boxes as suggested above, since those are not attached to the stud at all. They have little flip-out wings that grab onto the drywall or lathe. The process is more tedius compared to installing in drywall, but it can be done.

Before adding a second box for the splice, go trace that wire and decide if it's easier to just pull a longer wire to the new box.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2021, 11:23:11 PM by jpdx »

Paper Chaser

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2021, 03:25:17 AM »
Agree with them^^^^. Also to note, an "old work" box may also be known as a "remodel" box.
Here's a decent video explanation of the process if you're more visual:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Lrh6bPhsdI

sonofsven

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2021, 08:11:12 AM »
Good advice so far; yes, be very careful cutting the lath. If the blade catches it can yank the lath hard and bust out the plaster very quickly.
If youre using a blue plastic remodel box you might need to modify the wings since the plaster/lath is thicker than drywall. There's also a brown bakelite box with a U shaped spring steel that tightens at the back of the box that works good. I've also used nail on boxes effectively by attaching them to the stud with drywall screws right through the side of the box, but this is a little trickier as your cut out is right next to the stud; I prefer to be a little off the stud if possible, realizing there might be cable stapled to the stud where I want to cut.
If you can't use plastic sheeting effectively to isolate the area for dust control you can slightly mitigate the dust by holding a shop  vac right next to the cutting area. Another tool for dispersing dust I use are those small window fans that can change direction from IN to OUT.
Use the OUT setting obviously.

lthenderson

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2021, 10:03:07 AM »
Especially in older houses, it is rare for their to be enough extra wire to move an outlet further unless it is in the direction the wire is traveling from, i.e. in your case, if the wire is coming down from the ceiling area, you might be able to move it. If it is coming through the studs or up from below, you will need to create a junction box that is accessible in the cabinet below and not bury the connection which is against code. Lots of great advice above on how to do the work.

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2021, 10:06:21 AM »
I have another related question. I have another rental unit where the box is loose. The bottom wing that holds the box against the drywall inside is tight, but the upper wing is loose and I can't get it to fasten securely to the drywall without it popping out again. What's going on here?

I've heard that you can use something like this to secure the box in place. https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Raco-8977-Grip-Loc-Support/dp/B00004WZ3K?th=1
What would you do here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwziu8RGF4A
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 10:38:02 AM by Archipelago »

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2021, 10:07:13 AM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BudgetSlasher

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2021, 10:38:29 AM »
Old house, plaster and lathe. Picture attached of the plug I want to move up between the upper and lower cabinet. Then I can fasten the bottom cabinet to the wall. Will also be replacing outlet with an outlet that supports plugs and USB charging ports. Is this fairly simple?

1. How much do I have to open up the drywall to move up the plug?
2. Can I use the same junction box or should I get a new one? Do I have to worry about re-fastening it to the stud?
3. I'll have to extend the wire if the wire comes from the floor, right? But this shouldn't be too bad.
If the wire is too short, you canít just bury a splice back in the wall. Looks like itís a cabinet below.  You could make a jbox accessible in the cabinet below and then run new wire up to your new spot. 

Being plaster and lathe, do NOT use a reciprocating saw (sawzal), but rather use an oscillating tool to carefully remove the lathe.

Purchase 2 ďold workĒ single gang boxes from the store.  Trace out where you want the box to be on the wall, and then cut out that size. Do the same in the cabinet below.  You will now have a hole underneath in the cabinet (where you take the original wire into) and a hole in the wall where the old outlet was.  Fish new wire from the new outlet box location down to the hole inside the cabinet.  Run your wires into the old work box, and then put the box in the wall. Fasten the box down, typically with the supplied screws on a tab.

Wire nut your wires in the cabinet jbox and put a cover over the box.  Go to the new outlet location, run your wire through the back of the old work box, and secure it back in like you did below.  Install your new outlet and cover.

Drywall patch your old outlet hole. 

If the wire comes from above, then itís 1/2 the steps.  No need for the box underneath.


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I agree with most everything said.

I do want to point out (that depending on your local code/version and what is consider a "repair") there is a code approved mechanism that can be used to splice wire in a concealed location. These only work for modern Romex cable though.

Those might not be best practice, personally I would go with putting a junction box where in the cabinet or other location where it is out of sight but accessible, but they are an option that is out there.

Below is a link to an example, but it looks like they have fallen victim to supply chain issues.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Tyco-Electronics-Romex-Splice-Kit-2-Wire-1-Clam-A22899-000/202204326#product-section-overview

Papa bear

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2021, 12:15:42 PM »
I have another related question. I have another rental unit where the box is loose. The bottom wing that holds the box against the drywall inside is tight, but the upper wing is loose and I can't get it to fasten securely to the drywall without it popping out again. What's going on here?

I've heard that you can use something like this to secure the box in place. https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Raco-8977-Grip-Loc-Support/dp/B00004WZ3K?th=1
What would you do here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwziu8RGF4A
You can remove it and install a new box and hope it holds.  Or, Iíve done this in the past, use expanding spray foam around the outside of the box and hold it in place for a few minutes.  That stuff sets up like glue and can hold it in place better.


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Malcat

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2021, 12:27:55 PM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BA HA HA HA HA!

My DH??? Noooo, definitely another poster. Mine doesn't know what a Philips head screwdriver is. And that's not an exaggeration, I have to ask him for "the one that looks like a star".

Sibley

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2021, 12:57:48 PM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BA HA HA HA HA!

My DH??? Noooo, definitely another poster. Mine doesn't know what a Philips head screwdriver is. And that's not an exaggeration, I have to ask him for "the one that looks like a star".

I ask if its the line or the cross. Star is a different one entirely, I assume it has a name but I don't know it. And I'm sorta handy.

Edit: In addition to all the excellent advise above, if you don't already know the type and condition of your electrical wire you might be in for a shock. Pun intended. Sometimes its far, far safer to not touch anything rather than risk damage to old wiring. Old wires can become brittle and insulation can crack or fall off. Be gentle.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2021, 01:23:02 PM by Sibley »

BlueHouse

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2021, 01:55:05 PM »
I know all the handy remodelers are going to have an aneurysm at my suggestion, but here goes:

Your cabinet does not seem to be in line with any other cabinets, so would it be terrible to raise the cabinet by 1-2 inches?  Then cut a hole in the back of the top drawer so you have a very handy charging station in the drawer.   No need to move the outlet, just move the cabinet.

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2021, 05:37:09 PM »
I have another related question. I have another rental unit where the box is loose. The bottom wing that holds the box against the drywall inside is tight, but the upper wing is loose and I can't get it to fasten securely to the drywall without it popping out again. What's going on here?

I've heard that you can use something like this to secure the box in place. https://www.amazon.com/Hubbell-Raco-8977-Grip-Loc-Support/dp/B00004WZ3K?th=1
What would you do here?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwziu8RGF4A
You can remove it and install a new box and hope it holds.  Or, Iíve done this in the past, use expanding spray foam around the outside of the box and hold it in place for a few minutes.  That stuff sets up like glue and can hold it in place better.


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I ended up using those metal things shown in the video I posted. I also ended up adding a new wing/screw combo to the box and it seems to all hold a lot better.

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2021, 05:38:15 PM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BA HA HA HA HA!

My DH??? Noooo, definitely another poster. Mine doesn't know what a Philips head screwdriver is. And that's not an exaggeration, I have to ask him for "the one that looks like a star".

Lol, no worries. I'm over here just calling it a plus or a minus.

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2021, 05:41:46 PM »
I know all the handy remodelers are going to have an aneurysm at my suggestion, but here goes:

Your cabinet does not seem to be in line with any other cabinets, so would it be terrible to raise the cabinet by 1-2 inches?  Then cut a hole in the back of the top drawer so you have a very handy charging station in the drawer.   No need to move the outlet, just move the cabinet.

The plug that's there needs to be accessed quite often. The fridge needs to stay plugged in there also. Need to be able to get to that outlet easily.

Papa bear

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2021, 06:36:13 PM »
I know all the handy remodelers are going to have an aneurysm at my suggestion, but here goes:

Your cabinet does not seem to be in line with any other cabinets, so would it be terrible to raise the cabinet by 1-2 inches?  Then cut a hole in the back of the top drawer so you have a very handy charging station in the drawer.   No need to move the outlet, just move the cabinet.

The plug that's there needs to be accessed quite often. The fridge needs to stay plugged in there also. Need to be able to get to that outlet easily.
The fridge should be on its own dedicated circuit.  Just be aware that it could cause issues with a full size fridge and some other small kitchen appliance in there overloading the current run. Especially if this is old k&t wiring, this could be an issue.  If you have basement access underneath, please consider running a dedicated run to the fridge. 


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bill1827

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #19 on: October 22, 2021, 03:16:06 AM »
The fridge should be on its own dedicated circuit.  Just be aware that it could cause issues with a full size fridge and some other small kitchen appliance in there overloading the current run.

Why? Domestic fridges and freezers are low power devices so unlikely to overload a circuit. (Our freezer consumes about 60W when the compressor is running and the fridge freezer uses 70W, rising to 250W for 20 minutes every day or so to defrost).

Papa bear

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #20 on: October 22, 2021, 08:17:38 AM »
The fridge should be on its own dedicated circuit.  Just be aware that it could cause issues with a full size fridge and some other small kitchen appliance in there overloading the current run.

Why? Domestic fridges and freezers are low power devices so unlikely to overload a circuit. (Our freezer consumes about 60W when the compressor is running and the fridge freezer uses 70W, rising to 250W for 20 minutes every day or so to defrost).
1) because the NEC says so
2) large fridges run at 6-7 amps, but the initial jump on start up for the compressors can be 3 times that amount.  You also have to account for the heater for the frost free cycle in the freezer. 
3) you can only have dedicated appliances at around 80% of a circuitís rated amount. So 15 amp circuit, 12 amps total draw, or 16 amps for a 20 amp circuit.

On average, youíre right.  If youíre not using anything else on that line when the compressor kicks on, youíll be fine.  But if you are, youíll have intermittent problems.  Which is not something you want on a fridge. 


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bill1827

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #21 on: October 22, 2021, 10:49:18 AM »
Wow! 840W for a domestic fridge! It's doubling as a room heater. And I thought that the US was starting to become a bit more aware of energy efficiency.

Papa bear

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #22 on: October 22, 2021, 01:31:18 PM »
Just checked my fridge, French door with bottom freezer, and ice maker.  Just the defrost heater runs at 600watts.   Ice maker 150 watts, running wattage at 180. 


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Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #23 on: October 22, 2021, 02:20:48 PM »
None of the fridges in the building have their own dedicated line. They're simple with a fridge and freezer side, all 2017 or later. No icemakers. None of the tenants have reported circuit overloads and I haven't experienced them unless I'm running a microwave, toaster oven or AC unit on the same outlet (which shouldn't be done anyhow). I think it's most likely ok.

jpdx

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #24 on: October 23, 2021, 09:54:15 PM »
Another reason for a dedicated fridge circuit: you eliminate the chance of something else tripping the breaker and spoiling all your food.

Valley of Plenty

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #25 on: October 23, 2021, 10:18:05 PM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BA HA HA HA HA!

My DH??? Noooo, definitely another poster. Mine doesn't know what a Philips head screwdriver is. And that's not an exaggeration, I have to ask him for "the one that looks like a star".

I ask if its the line or the cross. Star is a different one entirely, I assume it has a name but I don't know it. And I'm sorta handy.

Star would be a torx bit :)

Malcat

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #26 on: October 24, 2021, 06:14:35 AM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BA HA HA HA HA!

My DH??? Noooo, definitely another poster. Mine doesn't know what a Philips head screwdriver is. And that's not an exaggeration, I have to ask him for "the one that looks like a star".

I ask if its the line or the cross. Star is a different one entirely, I assume it has a name but I don't know it. And I'm sorta handy.

Star would be a torx bit :)

Sure, but I never ask DH to grab me anything but the Phillip's or the flat, and he's the one who thinks the Phillip's looks like a star, so I just go with that.

I've explained which one is the Phillip's to him at least 100 times, but nope, it remains the "star".

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #27 on: October 24, 2021, 06:58:02 PM »
I've got one more question on this topic. What kind of wire should I be using for this project? I've installed light fixtures and plugs before, but I've never run or spliced new wire.

Papa bear

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2021, 07:09:44 PM »
I've got one more question on this topic. What kind of wire should I be using for this project? I've installed light fixtures and plugs before, but I've never run or spliced new wire.
Ok - check the breaker or fuse.  If itís 15amp, you use 14 gauge wire, if itís 20amp, use 12 gauge wire. If itís a 20 amp breaker and the wire in the original part is 14 gauge, youíve got problems, go change your breaker.  If you have brittle paper sheathing from knob and tube wiring and no ground, consider making sure itís 15 amp regardless of what you think the wire size is.  And if there is no ground, use a gfci outlet.   

Unless youíre in Illinois, go get some NM sheathed 12/2 or 14/2 wire.  Typically is called romex.  Yellow is 12, white is 14.  Donít trust sheathing color on the original wire! If youíre in Illinois, Iím pretty sure this needs to be in conduit.

If there is only the one wire going up to your original outlet box, you can use yellow wire nuts.  If youíve got 3+ 12 gauge wires in 1 nut, get reds.  You may have more in there than anticipated!

Cut your sheathing all the way back into the back of your outlet box to expose your wires.  Strip the last 1/2Ē or so to bare copper to use in the wire nuts.  I prefer to twist them with some linesman pliers before using a nut.


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Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #29 on: October 25, 2021, 07:31:05 AM »
I've got one more question on this topic. What kind of wire should I be using for this project? I've installed light fixtures and plugs before, but I've never run or spliced new wire.
Ok - check the breaker or fuse.  If itís 15amp, you use 14 gauge wire, if itís 20amp, use 12 gauge wire. If itís a 20 amp breaker and the wire in the original part is 14 gauge, youíve got problems, go change your breaker.  If you have brittle paper sheathing from knob and tube wiring and no ground, consider making sure itís 15 amp regardless of what you think the wire size is.  And if there is no ground, use a gfci outlet.   

Unless youíre in Illinois, go get some NM sheathed 12/2 or 14/2 wire.  Typically is called romex.  Yellow is 12, white is 14.  Donít trust sheathing color on the original wire! If youíre in Illinois, Iím pretty sure this needs to be in conduit.

If there is only the one wire going up to your original outlet box, you can use yellow wire nuts.  If youíve got 3+ 12 gauge wires in 1 nut, get reds.  You may have more in there than anticipated!

Cut your sheathing all the way back into the back of your outlet box to expose your wires.  Strip the last 1/2Ē or so to bare copper to use in the wire nuts.  I prefer to twist them with some linesman pliers before using a nut.


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Thanks a lot!

yachi

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #30 on: October 27, 2021, 11:18:50 AM »
If itís a 20 amp breaker and the wire in the original part is 14 gauge, youíve got problems, go change your breaker.

Problems like the wire could overheat and catch fire before the breaker trips. 

lutorm

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2021, 03:18:28 PM »
Another reason for a dedicated fridge circuit: you eliminate the chance of something else tripping the breaker and spoiling all your food.
Pretty sure this is the reason for the requirement. It's also why you shouldn't put a GFCI on the refrigerator circuit, so that a nuisance trip doesn't spoil the food.

Archipelago

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2021, 08:39:49 PM »
Another reason for a dedicated fridge circuit: you eliminate the chance of something else tripping the breaker and spoiling all your food.
Pretty sure this is the reason for the requirement. It's also why you shouldn't put a GFCI on the refrigerator circuit, so that a nuisance trip doesn't spoil the food.

Solid point, thanks.

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Re: Help me scope out a mini project moving an electrical outlet up a wall
« Reply #33 on: November 11, 2021, 06:55:56 AM »
@Malcat

???

Why am I being summoned?

Is OP needing to talk about the emotional impact of their electrical work? Are there complex feelings and interpersonal challenges with their spouse about these electrical issues? Has dealing with electrical issues triggered them to a series of self destructive behaviours? Are they questioning the deeper existential meaning of electrical work?

Cuz otherwise I'm fucking useless here.

I thought your S/O is super handy and can fix anything. It might be another user. Sorry about that! No emotional turmoil here (yet)!

BA HA HA HA HA!

My DH??? Noooo, definitely another poster. Mine doesn't know what a Philips head screwdriver is. And that's not an exaggeration, I have to ask him for "the one that looks like a star".

I ask if its the line or the cross. Star is a different one entirely, I assume it has a name but I don't know it. And I'm sorta handy.

Star would be a torx bit :)

Sure, but I never ask DH to grab me anything but the Phillip's or the flat, and he's the one who thinks the Phillip's looks like a star, so I just go with that.

I've explained which one is the Phillip's to him at least 100 times, but nope, it remains the "star".

Reminds me of being in San Diego. The skyline has a plus/minus, phillips/flathead, or star/line building pair. Sorry, you will never look at that skyline the same way again.