Should I buy a lathe?

[Posthumane]

I'm considering a somewhat spendy purchase - a metal lathe. Now, this isn't a spur of the moment thing, I've been thinking about getting one for several years now. Thing is, I don't really *need* a metal lathe, since I have been able to use one at work after hours or go to a friend's place to use his when I've needed to, but I really would like to have one in my own garage that I can get out to without pre-planning a lathe session well in advance.

I've been learning to do a fair amount of metal work and really enjoy it. I've built a recumbent bicycle and trike, and I'm in the process of building a car (Locost 7). There have only been a handful of times where I've really felt that I couldn't do what I want to do without a lathe. A friend of mine has a 7x14 mini-lathe that he bought recently and that's the last one I've used, but his shop is an hour drive away. Plus the quality of the mini-lathe is somewhat lacking, which an expert machinist could probably work around but which cause some hassle for an amateur like myself. The machine that's accessible to me at work is a much better EMCO unit, but I can really only use it after hours (which means no carpooling) and I have to prepare in advance by bringing everything I might need to work in the morning. There have been a number of tasks which I could have done with a lathe quickly and easily, but ended up finding a workaround with other tools at the cost of speed and quality because I didn't want to wait for a time when I could get lathe time.

There are occasionally lathes that come up on Kijiji or at industrial auction sites. One which I'm considering looking at in the near future is an old british made Raglan 5 from the 1960s. 10" swing over bed, 24" between centres, 1 hp motor. Problem is, a couple of the gears are missing some teeth. This can be repaired, but I'd be worried that instead of buying a useful tool I'd be buying yet another project. While I like projects, I already have a few I need to finish. The guy selling that lathe is asking $1500 CAD which is a bit high for its condition, I think I would only consider if for about $1000. Another option is to buy a new mini-lathe like my friend has, but as I mentioned, they are quite limited and I don't know if I'd be totally happy with it. Or I can keep holding out and looking at auctions, and watching youtube videos about lathe processes to tide me over.

Now, I know that there is potential to make some money back from a lathe by selling machined pieces or doing some custom work for people, but I think this would be very limited at best. It would probably take me many years to recoup the cost of the lathe. So, it's a lot of money to spend on a hobby tool. What do the mustacians think?

[bobechs]

You have access to a couple of lathes with only a modicum of temporary inconvenience and you only need a lathe very occasionally and you know that making money with a lathe is probably a fantasy.

Are you serious?

[ncornilsen]

A lathe and a mill is best kept secret. you'll find yourself being the defacto free machine shop for all your friends with similar interests.

I have to second Bob, it seems like you want a lathe, don't really need it, and are trying to justify it. I know the feeling. I sold my CNC mill a couple years ago that was the result of tortured logic like that.

Do you have a mill? I found that far more useful right off the bat, imo.  A lathe often was something I could make a drawing for, and make the part any time, whereas my mill work often requires so cut, measure, cut, measure, test.

I'm jealous of this Locost build... what engine?

[Posthumane]

The lathe is definitely a want, rather than a need. Then again, that's the case for all hobby supplies. After all, nobody *needs* to have interesting hobbies, and making money isn't really the point of hobbies. My cheap used welder was also a want rather than a need, but after I got it I found there were many things that were made easier by having it, and I could often make something out of a couple dollars worth of metal rather than buying a something for many tens of dollars. The friend with a lathe lives about 100 km from me so it's a couple of hours driving and $20 gas every to go there, which makes doing anything in the evening after work out of the question for me. The work lathe doesn't belong to my group so it requires seeking out permission from another group and making sure it isn't set up for any work they are doing.

ncornilsen, the locost is using a ford 2.3 lima engine that I pulled out of a $500 ranger pickup truck. I adapted an electronic distributor ignition system (EDIS) to it, as well as fuel inject via a Megasquirt computer that I built from a kit (which, coincidentally, required two lathe operations to do). I just recently got it running for the first time in the Locost frame, after about three years.

A mill would be nice, though I've seldom found the need for it since it's much easier to fabricate straight parts by hand than circular parts. Hand cutting/filing tools and a bit of patience has got me through a fair bit, including things like making a custom intake manifold from scratch, including the flange.

[Roland of Gilead]

I have a Hardinge lathe and a Shizuoka CNC bedmill and love them both.   The Hardinge has a complete 5C collet set which is very nice, but it does not have threading.   I sometimes do the threading on the cnc mill by using a helical interpolation g-code command with a same thread tap that I have ground off all but one side.  This works quite well.

I actually can do a lot of what I do on the lathe on the CNC mill, but little of what I do on the CNC mill on the lathe.   I use the lathe a lot though because it is so fast to chuck up and turn down a shoulder or bore out something.

Paid $800 for the lathe about a decade ago and it was already 30 years old.  Second best chunk of metal I have bought. 

[Gone Fishing]

How's the stache?  How's the job?  How far from ER? How much time will the lathe cost you?  What will this time cost you in terms of time with your kids and/or parents?

I've regretted very few of my tool purchases.  My workshop is one of the things I'm retiring to.  Machining certainly opens up a whole new world.  Right now, my machining is limited to what I can chuck in my drill press.  I might be asking myself the same questions a few years from now!       

[Posthumane]

Currently I'm saving about 35%-45% of my take home pay, not counting mortgage payments or the 13% that gets taken off for my public service pensions, which works out to about 2-2.5k going into the stache per month, so a lathe purchase would set my ER back about 2 weeks at current rates. This is from an "engineering" job that is just under 6 figures, plus a part time army reserve job. I may be switching jobs sometime in the next year or two which would see a pay cut for up to 3 years, but is more in line with my passion (air force). I'm nowhere near ER yet with only about 130k, but I'm still in my early 30's so not a terribly huge rush. Like you, So Close, what I want to retire to is my workshop. Most of the time when I'm looking to get out of work, it's so I can go get something done on one of my projects (or to go flying). Mechanical work has always been something I enjoyed (I did a custom engine swap and many other upgrades on the first car I ever owned in high school), and I've been trying to slowly expand my fabrication abilities. The locost is definitely not the last car I plan on building - many other projects in mind including electric vehicles, airplane, etc.

Roland - I hadn't really been considering CNC machines for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is cost, but it's a good point that you make. CNC control gvies one tool the ability to do the work of several others. It's definitely something to keep in mind.

[Roland of Gilead]

Well, you can do some cool stuff with a cnc machine.   I used my lathe to make a copper nozzle/lens holder for a cereal box size diode pumped fiber laser I bought off ebay and put it in the tool holder on my Shizuoka mill to mess around with micromachining steel.   I have some backlash in X (about 0.0005" backlash) so the parts were not perfect, but impressive considering how small they are (the little gear is likely smaller than  .  on your computer screen).

[Gone Fishing]

Impressive, Roland!

[Papa Mustache]

Force the lathe to pay for itself either directly (working for other people) or indirectly (flip some projects for $$$).

This is the very same discussion I'm having about building an detached garage for my old car hobbies and carpentry.

I look at my shop as the place that keeps me sane and out of trouble. ;)

I'm retiring to my shop too. Looking forward to it. I have coworkers who don't seem to have a retirement activity plan aside from watching sports on TV. I can't wait to have the time and hopefully the space to knock around in my shop.

[zolotiyeruki]

Well, you can do some cool stuff with a cnc machine.   I used my lathe to make a copper nozzle/lens holder for a cereal box size diode pumped fiber laser I bought off ebay and put it in the tool holder on my Shizuoka mill to mess around with micromachining steel.   I have some backlash in X (about 0.0005" backlash) so the parts were not perfect, but impressive considering how small they are (the little gear is likely smaller than  .  on your computer screen).

That resistor is a 0402 package, then?

I'm retiring to my shop too. Looking forward to it. I have coworkers who don't seem to have a retirement activity plan aside from watching sports on TV. I can't wait to have the time and hopefully the space to knock around in my shop.

I'm in the same boat.  When I think of a retirement of sitting around and watching TV, I think "you're gonna slave away for 30 years so you can watch more tv?!"

[Posthumane]

Roland, that's pretty impressive. Any particular application in the plans or is it just to see if you could do it?

Another downside to borrowing other people's tools - I just broke the belt on the lathe at work. Granted I don't think I was doing anything wrong, the belt was just old and the EMCO uses a stupid little 5mm v-belt to run the spindle from a half hp motor. But, now I'm going to have people annoyed at me since it will take a week or two to get a new belt in (not a commonly stocked item in any local suppliers).

Agree with others that shop time is a much better way of spending your days than sitting around, consuming entertainment products. And as expensive as machine tools are, they're cheaper than a psychiatrist. :)

[Roland of Gilead]

Just to see if I could do it.   I am not going to try to make my own heart stints or anything :D

I do not know of any hobby application that needs such small parts...too small even for model builders.

Don't sweat the belt breaking, not your fault.  Bits and belts break, its what they do.

[Dyskolos]

I have a Hardinge lathe and a Shizuoka CNC bedmill and love them both.   The Hardinge has a complete 5C collet set which is very nice, but it does not have threading.   I sometimes do the threading on the cnc mill by using a helical interpolation g-code command with a same thread tap that I have ground off all but one side.  This works quite well.

I actually can do a lot of what I do on the lathe on the CNC mill, but little of what I do on the CNC mill on the lathe.   I use the lathe a lot though because it is so fast to chuck up and turn down a shoulder or bore out something.

Paid $800 for the lathe about a decade ago and it was already 30 years old.  Second best chunk of metal I have bought.

Interesting. I actually often go the opposite way and do a fair amount of milling on my home lathe (6 inch Atlas, nowhere near as nice as a Hardinge), with an endmill in the spindle. Now that I also have access to a small horizontal mill I may get away from this, but it does work surprisingly well. Your Hardinge, what model is it? I'm guessing DV-59 or TFB? Nicely made machines, despite the lack of screwcutting.


Regarding the original question:
I would try use the one at work, if it is only for occasional use. Too bad about the belt; you might see about performing some basic preventative maintenance for the privilege of using the machine? It doesn't sound like anyone else is doing it, and if nothing else it will give you an idea on what to look for should you decide to purchase your own machine later.
If you do buy a machine, the tooling included could easily make the difference between a bargain and getting robbed.